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How many versions of this great track exists?
what's the original version?
I know these:

- Aretha Franklin (Columbia)
- Sonji Clay (Songee)
- Justine Washington (Sue)
- Pat Thomas (Verve)
- Monticellos (Red cap)
- Spyder Turner (Mgm LP)
- Dusty Springfield (Philips LP)
- Madeline Bell (Philips LP)

Thank you
Romain

[Pete S]

Madeline Bell is on a UK Philips 45 as well as the LP by the way.

[TheUpsetter]

A great version by the velvelettes

[boba]

I don't want to attempt to list all the versions I can think of because there's like a bazillion versions, but just want to say that my absolute favorite version is the Dontells on Ambassador.

[dave pinch]

baby washington about the earliest of the bunch i can remember and she had the `hit` with it but not 100% certain

dave

[Premium Stuff]

dave pinch, on 27 December 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

baby washington about the earliest of the bunch i can remember and she had the `hit` with it but not 100% certain

dave

Also thought it was Baby Washington

Cheers

Richard

[shinehead]

Premium Stuff, on 27 December 2011 - 06:02 PM, said:

Also thought it was Baby Washington

Cheers

Richard

The best version to my ears and i also thought the first.

[Prophonics 2029]

Pat Thomas for me and the b-side is a killer track of the same tempo called Long Long Night.

[boba]

dave pinch, on 27 December 2011 - 05:40 PM, said:

baby washington about the earliest of the bunch i can remember and she had the `hit` with it but not 100% certain

dave

yes it's her song as the original / hit

[Bossfourpart1]

Hi there is a nice version by Verdelle Smith on Capital which is worth a spin too.

Personally i prefer the Sonj take with the male Harmonies , I can't wait , I can't wait ....brilliant !

[Andy Reynard]

Prophonics 2029, on 27 December 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

Pat Thomas for me and the b-side is a killer track of the same tempo called Long Long Night.

[Andy Reynard]

Prophonics 2029, on 27 December 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

Pat Thomas for me and the b-side is a killer track of the same tempo called Long Long Night.

loverly voice on this one pat Thomas have to agree wi montichellos a close second

[souljer6]

Sure that Pat Thomas was the original. The credits support it.

[boba]

souljer6, on 28 December 2011 - 09:27 PM, said:

Sure that Pat Thomas was the original. The credits support it.

that's wrong, baby washington was '63, pat thomas is '64. I saw that on the pat thomas record one of the writers produced it (versus juggy murray) but back in that time, songwriting was a full time profession, songwriters shopped songs around trying to get a producer to pick it up... although I don't know what specifically happened in the Baby Washington case. Even if the songwriter decided to later produce the song on an artist, it's not necessarily first.

also, even if pat thomas was first, baby washington had the hit.

[nickinstoke]

There's a reasonable UK version by Judi Johnson, on HMV 1371, from 1964. Dionne Warwick also did it on the "Then came you" LP

[BLAKE H]

Prophonics 2029, on 27 December 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

Pat Thomas for me and the b-side is a killer track of the same tempo called Long Long Night.

Looking for this 45 (for B side)...........Anyone??

Blake

[souljer6]

boba, on 29 December 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

that's wrong, baby washington was '63, pat thomas is '64. I saw that on the pat thomas record one of the writers produced it (versus juggy murray) but back in that time, songwriting was a full time profession, songwriters shopped songs around trying to get a producer to pick it up... although I don't know what specifically happened in the Baby Washington case. Even if the songwriter decided to later produce the song on an artist, it's not necessarily first.

also, even if pat thomas was first, baby washington had the hit.

Sorry to have to disagree with an acknowledged oracle but I've managed to dig out my copy of Pat Thomas.
Both sides have the same publisher, the same arranger (Gary Sherman), the same conductor (Jerry Ragavoy) and the same producer (Creed Taylor).

I cant wait.....written by Ragavoy/ Taylor; B side written by Ragavoy/ Elgin

When did Jerry Ragavoy write for Baby Washington?

[Soul-Integrity]

boba, on 29 December 2011 - 05:01 AM, said:

that's wrong, baby washington was '63, pat thomas is '64. I saw that on the pat thomas record one of the writers produced it (versus juggy murray) but back in that time, songwriting was a full time profession, songwriters shopped songs around trying to get a producer to pick it up... although I don't know what specifically happened in the Baby Washington case. Even if the songwriter decided to later produce the song on an artist, it's not necessarily first.

also, even if pat thomas was first, baby washington had the hit.

souljer6, on 29 December 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

Sorry to have to disagree with an acknowledged oracle but I've managed to dig out my copy of Pat Thomas.
Both sides have the same publisher, the same arranger (Gary Sherman), the same conductor (Jerry Ragavoy) and the same producer (Creed Taylor).

I cant wait.....written by Ragavoy/ Taylor; B side written by Ragavoy/ Elgin

When did Jerry Ragavoy write for Baby Washington?

I used to think Pat Thomas was first because of the credits on the label, but for defo Pat Thomas was recorded in sept 1964. Baby Washington I'm sure was released in feb of 1964? the credits on Justine's version are Norman Meade as well as Chip Taylor, Norman Meade was a pen name of Jerry Ragovoy, I just think Jerry re-dun it on Pat later that year.... might be wrong tho?

steve

[boba]

souljer6, on 29 December 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

Sorry to have to disagree with an acknowledged oracle but I've managed to dig out my copy of Pat Thomas.
Both sides have the same publisher, the same arranger (Gary Sherman), the same conductor (Jerry Ragavoy) and the same producer (Creed Taylor).

I cant wait.....written by Ragavoy/ Taylor; B side written by Ragavoy/ Elgin

When did Jerry Ragavoy write for Baby Washington?

Did you read my post? It specifically acknowledges the same names on the pat thomas and I give a possible explanation.

Also, you don't have an explanation about how the sue 45 was released in '63 and the pat thomas was released in '64. Baby Washington was released 12/63. Pat Thomas was released in 1964 according to this discography:

http://www.soulfulki...c.net/verve.htm

A discography could make a mistake with a date but not when it's surrounded by a bunch of 1964 dates.

Additionally, even if you are totally correct about which was first, Baby Washington's record was the hit.

[souljer6]

boba, on 30 December 2011 - 12:14 AM, said:

Did you read my post? It specifically acknowledges the same names on the pat thomas and I give a possible explanation.

Also, you don't have an explanation about how the sue 45 was released in '63 and the pat thomas was released in '64. Baby Washington was released 12/63. Pat Thomas was released in 1964 according to this discography:

http://www.soulfulki...c.net/verve.htm

A discography could make a mistake with a date but not when it's surrounded by a bunch of 1964 dates.

Additionally, even if you are totally correct about which was first, Baby Washington's record was the hit.

Yes, OK, perhaps Jerry Ragavoy licenced the song to Juggy before cutting it himself on Pat Thomas....or maybe the release of the already recorded
Pat Thomas was delayed in a deal with Juggy....or maybe...........But in any case Pat Thomas is "morally" the original in my book and having the "hit" means little in the anals of soul music.

[boba]

souljer6, on 30 December 2011 - 12:44 AM, said:

But in any case Pat Thomas is "morally" the original in my book and having the "hit" means little in the anals of soul music.

I frequently also get stuck in the anals of soul music

(I'm not making fun of you, I am just easily amused)

[souljer6]

And referring to our last interaction have you heard Bennie Shaw's version of the Heatwaves yet?

[boba]

souljer6, on 30 December 2011 - 01:04 AM, said:

And referring to our last interaction have you heard Bennie Shaw's version of the Heatwaves yet?

no, I totally forgot sorry, I just did a search to find out what you were referring to. I will see if I can find the bennie shaw record cheap now, if not, I'll put it on my search list. Thanks for the tip.

[boba]

boba, on 30 December 2011 - 01:09 AM, said:

no, I totally forgot sorry, I just did a search to find out what you were referring to. I will see if I can find the bennie shaw record cheap now, if not, I'll put it on my search list. Thanks for the tip.

craig moerer has it for $350. I guess it's going onto the search list. I think I have that uptown down south CD that the track is apparently on, I will try to dig it out to check it out. Thanks again.

[boba]

this is totally unrelated but your post reminded me of this... did you know there's a chuck colbert production on crackerjack? It's duke hunter "nose trouble". Also, he has that Kitty Love on Dade which is weird. An excello title adds to the random labels he's licensed to.

[souljer6]

boba, on 30 December 2011 - 01:33 AM, said:

this is totally unrelated but your post reminded me of this... did you know there's a chuck colbert production on crackerjack? It's duke hunter "nose trouble". Also, he has that Kitty Love on Dade which is weird. An excello title adds to the random labels he's licensed to.

Interesting. He was also a member of The American Breed.

[boba]

souljer6, on 30 December 2011 - 02:14 AM, said:

Interesting. He was also a member of The American Breed.

yeah, he's also very difficult to get on the phone and I've never managed to successfully set up an interview since it's so rare just being able to talk to him.

[the yank]

Jerry Ragavoy redid "I Can't Wait..." with Dionne Warwick on her "Then Came You" album in 1974.

[gogs]

Back on topic. Did this come out as Baby Washington & Justine Washington as 2 seperate issues?
http://www.raresoulm...INGTON,_JUSTINE
Listed as 1964

[boba]

gogs, on 30 December 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:

Back on topic. Did this come out as Baby Washington & Justine Washington as 2 seperate issues?
http://www.raresoulm...INGTON,_JUSTINE
Listed as 1964

I think it just came out as Justine Washington.

And several other sources list it as '63, including one that says 12/63. It's probably reliable given that sue was a large label.

p.s. This is still the best version:

[gogs]

boba, on 30 December 2011 - 04:55 AM, said:

I think it just came out as Justine Washington.

And several other sources list it as '63, including one that says 12/63. It's probably reliable given that sue was a large label.

p.s. This is still the best version:

I've got pat thomas version and i prefer that to others i've heard, but each to their own as i say

[souljer6]

Just one more small point regarding the credits; approx 50% of versions credit Meade rather than Ragavoy as co- writer with Creed Taylor.

Any ideas anyone? I expect an explanation from The Oracle (unless of course he's got himself stuck somewhere up there in the anals).

[Soul-Integrity]

souljer6, on 30 December 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Just one more small point regarding the credits; approx 50% of versions credit Meade rather than Ragavoy as co- writer with Creed Taylor.

Any ideas anyone? I expect an explanation from The Oracle (unless of course he's got himself stuck somewhere up there in the anals).

hi mate, mentioned back in post #18 Norman Meade was a pen name of Jerry Ragovoy

steve

[dave pinch]

pat thomas came out in sept 64 according to the verve discography and baby washington 12/63 and it made 92 on the hot 100 in march 64. its a great song and i like every version i`ve heard but spyder turners version from jan 67 is the best imho....incidentally the uk sue copy is credited to baby washington

dave

Edited by dave pinch, 30 December 2011 - 04:14 PM.

[Premium Stuff]

dave pinch, on 30 December 2011 - 04:11 PM, said:

but spyder turners version from jan 67 is the best imho

dave

On the LP Dave?

Cheers

Richard

[dave pinch]

yep just on the lp as far as i know richard

[boba]

souljer6, on 30 December 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Just one more small point regarding the credits; approx 50% of versions credit Meade rather than Ragavoy as co- writer with Creed Taylor.

Any ideas anyone? I expect an explanation from The Oracle (unless of course he's got himself stuck somewhere up there in the anals).

Sorry I don't have an explanation and I was really busy with anal.

I did know about the different credits though, as I was involved in trying to license the dontells track and it somehow was in BMI in all different permutations of writers, it was weird.

[boba]

I know this will offend everyone on this thread, but I got the Pat Thomas today and played it, it's totally like a cheesy lounge jazz version of the track, the least soulish version I've heard. This is just my opinion, but I probably won't be playing it again any time soon.

[Mister Fish]

Dontells for me too Bob!

[Prophonics 2029]

boba, on 08 February 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I know this will offend everyone on this thread, but I got the Pat Thomas today and played it, it's totally like a cheesy lounge jazz version of the track, the least soulish version I've heard. This is just my opinion, but I probably won't be playing it again any time soon.

what about the other side Boba?

[Sleeps45]

Dontells on Ambassador definitley the best

[boba]

Prophonics 2029, on 08 February 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

what about the other side Boba?

both sides were similar in style.

IMO the best female version is Baby Washington, just because she is such a soulful singer. I like hers better than aretha's etc.

Whoa, i just googled aretha's version and found this:



aretha doesn't even look like the same person. she looks anorexic.

I wonder why no female groups ever did the song.

[Andy Reynard]

boba, on 08 February 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

I know this will offend everyone on this thread, but I got the Pat Thomas today and played it, it's totally like a cheesy lounge jazz version of the track, the least soulish version I've heard. This is just my opinion, but I probably won't be playing it again any time soon.

[Andy Reynard]

Certainly hasn't offended me that you don't rate PatThomas,I do and a lot of folk, I know do,as well and as for The long long night IMO it's a great tune n right up a few people's street who are going to British soul nights nowadays I just disagree bob.with your opinion!

[boba]

Andy Reynard, on 08 February 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Certainly hasn't offended me that you don't rate PatThomas,I do and a lot of folk, I know do,as well and as for The long long night IMO it's a great tune n right up a few people's street who are going to British soul nights nowadays I just disagree bob.with your opinion!

Cool. Some people take stuff too personally here so I wanted to be apologetic. I totally appreciate that there's different tastes and I actually appreciate the fact that some people even like music I hate because I feel like it's all history and I want someone to feel that it's important and care about it and document it.

[Prophonics 2029]

Sorry Bob, not keen on your Dontells, but I can see why you would like it. If your Pat Thomas ia s a Blue issue I would make you an offer on it......Yellow or Black I am ok with thanks. Pro

[boba]

Prophonics 2029, on 09 February 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

Sorry Bob, not keen on your Dontells, but I can see why you would like it. If your Pat Thomas ia s a Blue issue I would make you an offer on it......Yellow or Black I am ok with thanks. Pro

I got a yellow copy, sorry. It's also in worse condition than was advertised. Do you like the monticellos on red cap version?

[Prophonics 2029]

Montys, Sonjit, Aretha, Baby Washington, Pat T but not sure about the Donells version, I think its a little two mixed for me.
I like the simple ones best.
Suppose its a bit like Tiny Topsy Little Bit but for me its only Topsy's cut that I can listen to.

[Mister Fish]

Prophonics 2029, on 09 February 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Montys, Sonjit, Aretha, Baby Washington, Pat T but not sure about the Donells version, I think its a little two mixed for me.
I like the simple ones best.
Suppose its a bit like Tiny Topsy Little Bit but for me its only Topsy's cut that I can listen to.

Dontells Nick. Btw contact?

Edited by Mister Fish, 09 February 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[Prophonics 2029]

Like this one.