After Frank Wilson What Northern Soul Records Are In The All Time Top Ten Rarestrecords

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Guest allnightandy
23 April 2012 - 11:35 AM
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I was just thinking what record is at number two in the list
so we might as well have a top ten (IYHO) with values and known quantities if possible
Andy




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JIM BARRY
23 April 2012 - 12:36 PM
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I was just thinking what record is at number two in the list
so we might as well have a top ten (IYHO) with values and known quantities if possible
Andy


there are plenty of records rarer than frank wilson andy!....loads of 1 offs..
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Guest allnightandy
23 April 2012 - 12:41 PM
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there are plenty of records rarer than frank wilson andy!....loads of 1 offs..

can you name a few Jim ?

Andy

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geeselad
23 April 2012 - 12:44 PM
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pretty subjective debate, whatever your sentiments, that books already written, and apart from a few exceptions many of the top ten have, for me, lost the context of being a northern soul records,'tainted love', 'ghost in my house' and landslide are now, just former youth club records that enterain people week in week out at over 50's disco's.
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Guest allnightandy
23 April 2012 - 12:51 PM
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pretty subjective debate, whatever your sentiments, that books already written, and apart from a few exceptions many of the top ten have, for me, lost the context of being a northern soul records,'tainted love', 'ghost in my house' and landslide are now, just former youth club records that enterain people week in week out at over 50's disco's.

I mean from a rare point of view like Jim said Rarer than Frank Wilson which i assume means just one copy of !
Andy

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George G
23 April 2012 - 05:30 PM
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Isn't there a new topic about this every nine months or so? Someone here with more knowledge can probably find the older topics. As in all genres of collecting there are 'one known copy' records according to legends. In almost every case that is not true and there are more copies but the people that have them are either not in 'the loop' or rather not disclose what they have.
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rotherham soul
23 April 2012 - 05:32 PM
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This one maybe?



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JIM BARRY
23 April 2012 - 05:40 PM
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can you name a few Jim ?

Andy



not off the top of my head andy, ......but i have read many accounts of single or 2 only in existance....the bunky copy of nolan chance or the rouser copy of frank beverley just sprang to mind.
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chalky
23 April 2012 - 06:46 PM
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The Bunky copy, theres at least one in this country isn't there. Few Rouser copies now. Junior McCants on King, Kell Osborne spring to mind. Most of Butch's biggies. A mate has at least half a dozen where there are just one "known" copy and he doesn't DJ or go anywhere really. I say "known" cause no one really knows what is out there, there's every chance there is a box load of some rarity waiting to be found.

But Jim is right there are stacks of records rarer and as rare as Frank Wilson.

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dave pinch
23 April 2012 - 07:03 PM
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inspirations on breakthru, mellow souls, andantes on vip,cod`s on kellmac, combinations on kellmac, cavaliers on shrine, prophets on shrine........

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23 April 2012 - 07:06 PM
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Patrice Holloway on VIP.



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JIM BARRY
23 April 2012 - 07:11 PM
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inspirations on breakthru, mellow souls, andantes on vip,cod`s on kellmac, combinations on kellmac, cavaliers on shrine, prophets on shrine........



there is one on dore ...milton something or other brain is slow at the mo lol
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chalky
23 April 2012 - 07:13 PM
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Milton James, Little Johnny Hamilton and Swans, all on Dore. Milton James at least two know, the other two single known copies.

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geeselad
23 April 2012 - 09:34 PM
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I mean from a rare point of view like Jim said Rarer than Frank Wilson which i assume means just one copy of !
Andy


ok, sorry, got the wrong end on this one.

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geeselad
23 April 2012 - 09:38 PM
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do we include acetate's? or do they actually have to be on vinyl? lets face it even if they made onto a disc proper, and the're that rare they werent actually issued were they?

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JIM BARRY
23 April 2012 - 09:50 PM
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Milton James, Little Johnny Hamilton and Swans, all on Dore. Milton James at least two know, the other two single known copies.




thats the one ..."my loneley feeling"....carl willingham played it at the ritz rarest of the rare night...hens teeth record..
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boba
23 April 2012 - 11:27 PM
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Isn't there a new topic about this every nine months or so? Someone here with more knowledge can probably find the older topics. As in all genres of collecting there are 'one known copy' records according to legends. In almost every case that is not true and there are more copies but the people that have them are either not in 'the loop' or rather not disclose what they have.


I think you're probably right about all genres having this phenomenon but I think this particular obsession with rarity is specific to northern soul as it is a DJ scene where exclusivity / rarity, as well as spending a lot of money on a single record, seems to be an integral part of the scene.
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George G
24 April 2012 - 07:07 AM
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I think you're probably right about all genres having this phenomenon but I think this particular obsession with rarity is specific to northern soul as it is a DJ scene where exclusivity / rarity, as well as spending a lot of money on a single record, seems to be an integral part of the scene.


Right, certainly bragging rights to having the 'only known copy' of a record as a Northern Soul DJ is a big deal. Far more than having the same for garage 45s or doowop 45s. Maybe something like Tefteller buying the first and only known D.A. Hunt 45 on Sun is vaguely comparable as just about anyone who collects records respects the Sun label, like the music or not.....

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dylan
24 April 2012 - 07:23 AM
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inspirations on breakthru, mellow souls, andantes on vip,cod`s on kellmac, combinations on kellmac, cavaliers on shrine, prophets on shrine........


not wanting to nit pick but I know there are at least 3 copies of mello souls.
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dave pinch
24 April 2012 - 05:43 PM
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not wanting to nit pick but I know there are at least 3 copies of mello souls.


just quoting some proven mega rarities at the top of the pile. theres probably a handful of all the titles i mentioned known

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dylan
24 April 2012 - 05:49 PM
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just quoting some proven mega rarities at the top of the pile. theres probably a handful of all the titles i mentioned known


yes sorry I misread title I thought it was which records are rarer than FW but it isn't.

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geeselad
26 April 2012 - 10:08 PM
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margret littles perhaps?

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tomangoes
26 April 2012 - 10:54 PM
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A mate of mine had me searching for 'aint no soul left in these old shoes' by freeman hardy and willis. Took me a while to realise the joke!

One thing for sure, you would need a few bob to own the 10 rarest northern soul records!

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Quinvy
27 April 2012 - 01:03 AM
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One that never features in these discussions, but in my opinion never ever turns up, is the Sonatas on Hot Line. The only copies that I have ever seen have come from collections and the copies were obtained in the 80's, and most have been hammered by their dj owners. Never seen a "fresh" copy from the States.

Milton James is, as far as I am aware a 3 known copy record, still.

The Contessa must be one of the rarest. I have only ever heard of the one copy.


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gordon russell
27 April 2012 - 08:17 PM
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Aeroplane song, norma jenkins........carl fortnum and fred kroll

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BrianB
28 April 2012 - 06:06 PM
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pretty subjective debate, whatever your sentiments, that books already written, and apart from a few exceptions many of the top ten have, for me, lost the context of being a northern soul records,'tainted love', 'ghost in my house' and landslide are now, just former youth club records that enterain people week in week out at over 50's disco's.


I don't think Andy meant the NS top ten, but the rarest. However, I am sick to death of Tainted Love, GIMH, Landslide and hundreds more being called Youth Club records. I heard them first at the Mecca in 72 and 73. I have never heard a NS record in a youth club, as I heard them at venues, If some of the lovers of our music were too young to go to venues, thats just a fact of life, but why call NS records by such a term when it says more about the person, not the record? No disrespect or malice intended to anyone, just my view.
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solidsoul
28 April 2012 - 08:27 PM
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However, I am sick to death of Tainted Love, GIMH, Landslide and hundreds more being called Youth Club records. I heard them first at the Mecca in 72 and 73. I have never heard a NS record in a youth club, as I heard them at venues, If some of the lovers of our music were too young to go to venues, thats just a fact of life, but why call NS records by such a term when it says more about the person, not the record?

I agree, most people that call them youth club records, are just showing they were not on the Northern Scene when these records were big and unobtainable !!
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SteveSmith
29 April 2012 - 08:07 AM
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I agree, most people that call them youth club records, are just showing they were not on the Northern Scene when these records were big and unobtainable !!


Sorry i disagree, i went to the Torch when i was fifteen and strange as it sounds still went to a youth club :rofl: ´cause it was the way to get the new sounds played. Also went to pubs and soul nights in the town(Gloucester)

Big and unobtainable sounds i had at fifteen/sixteen ........Bok to back Uk MGM issue, PP Arnold immidiate demo, Ethics-Standing in the darkness-Vent demo, Queen of the go go Tower demo, Donald Lee Richardson Demo, Baby Reconsidor Issue(may have been seventeen :D ) plus many many more all bought with money from my saturday job at a clothes shop(plus what i fiddled on clothes sales etc)plus other nocturnal activities :shhh: then i started my apprenticeship



Ask anyone about Gloucester YMCA, Churchdown-Sandycroft Youth Club, Lonsdale road Youth club etc etc i often relate stories to my girlfriend concerning"youth club records"

So i think you should re-think your statement
Any other old Gloucester old soullies back me up on this....Ezzie :D Melvin Clapton :rofl: Jerry Lott etc

Steve........Ex dj and Youth club record supplier :thumbup:

Sorry this is away from the original topic but i just had to say something :yes:

As for rare what about Fabulous Jades-I´ll be so happy Now that is rare and underplayed(Stafford of course)

Edited by SteveSmith, 29 April 2012 - 08:11 AM.



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nstomp97
29 April 2012 - 05:41 PM
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Ann Robinson - World Of Happiness
Junior McCants - Try Me For Your New Love
Probably rarer than Frank Wilson!

Personally I think there are probably more copies of Frank Wilson out in the states there are not gonna be just 3! :thumbsup:

Edited by nstomp97, 29 April 2012 - 05:43 PM.



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chalky
29 April 2012 - 05:52 PM
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I think it is in the records that 6 copies of frank Wilson were pressed. Which were ordered to be destroyed so if if there are more out there, where isn't many.

Ann Robinson is actually Shirley Turner and it is acetate only. Jnr McCants there is at least two, possibly three?

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JIM BARRY
29 April 2012 - 07:55 PM
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Ann Robinson - World Of Happiness
Junior McCants - Try Me For Your New Love
Probably rarer than Frank Wilson!

Personally I think there are probably more copies of Frank Wilson out in the states there are not gonna be just 3! :thumbsup:


thought there were only 2 of fw...tim and kenny's old copy!!....who has the 3rd?
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Steve G
29 April 2012 - 08:22 PM
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I don't think there was a third FW. Some hip hop boys claimed to have found one, but I think that was a wind up.

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chalky
29 April 2012 - 08:24 PM
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There was talk of Reg Bartlett having a copy but never seen any evidence.

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nstomp97
29 April 2012 - 08:51 PM
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I was always told that supposedly 250 demo 45s of Frank Wilson were pressed but the demos trashed and 3 survived? I may have been wrongly informed :glare:

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geeselad
29 April 2012 - 08:52 PM
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I don't think Andy meant the NS top ten, but the rarest. However, I am sick to death of Tainted Love, GIMH, Landslide and hundreds more being called Youth Club records. I heard them first at the Mecca in 72 and 73. I have never heard a NS record in a youth club, as I heard them at venues, If some of the lovers of our music were too young to go to venues, thats just a fact of life, but why call NS records by such a term when it says more about the person, not the record? No disrespect or malice intended to anyone, just my view.


I certainly didnt want to offend either, I said the've lost their context, and despite having upmost respect for those tunes, and those that heard them in their original context, i call them youth club because I've played at oldies venues where many heard those records originally at youth clubs and well nether really got beyond the youthy themselves. Anything beyond the NS top ten is alien to said punters and would equally request 'love train' or other philly/ pop records alongside 'al mathews' and a host of other non northern pop tunes. Again absolutely no offence intended and I hope this tract's left now because i got the wrong end of the topic initially and this is all pretty off topic.
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Guest allnightandy
29 April 2012 - 11:21 PM
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thought there were only 2 of fw...tim and kenny's old copy!!....who has the 3rd?


If i recall the story correctly , the two copies of Frank Wilson were lifted from the Motown vaults by Mr Sussan
Yet Kenny Burrells copy came from a box of pressings that belonged to the Pressing plant manager along with a copy of The Andantes
so that does make 3 but you know how these things get distorted over time ?

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chalky
30 April 2012 - 06:27 AM
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The one copy Soussan had was lifted from Tom Dieperro's office who I believe had it on loan from Motown. The copy of Ron Murphy's which is the copy Kenny got came after Ron advertised in the local press for records from people who worked at the pressing plant. Don't know of any other copy except for the unfounded rumours. As Steve says the hip hop boys claim was a wind up.

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chalky
30 April 2012 - 06:29 AM
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I was always told that supposedly 250 demo 45s of Frank Wilson were pressed but the demos trashed and 3 survived? I may have been wrongly informed :glare:


I've never heard of 250 being pressed, just the 6 dies which were then ordered to be destroyed after Wilson signed his songwriting deal with Motown.

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DaveNPete
30 April 2012 - 06:55 AM
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The actual story which Frank told us (first night he was over outside Jazz FM as it happens before RS recorded his inteview pre-Blackpool) was that he was with Berry behind the curtains watching the Supremes on stage in LA at the tail end of a string of dates just after cutting "Do I love You".

They were absolutely shattered and having real problems - Berry looks a Frank, puts his arm around his shoulder and says words to the effect of "look at them - do you really want ALL this hard work and hassle just to get a few record sales, you're just not cut out for performing are you mate".

Frank mumbled a half convinced "spose you're right BG" acceptance - a couple of days later he walks into the office to find Berry has wiped the record from the face of the earth having called in directly he left Frank.

This is why FW never had one himself - though the thing about offering Kenny $50k for his is true, it was because his daughter wanted a copy - he being too much of a perfectionist thought it a very weak performance.

Apparently there are a good number of FW recordings under various pseudonyms - the Eddie Wilson obviously, but also several more for labels he couldn't remember under various other names he also couldn't remember.

As I understood it he was never actually a staffer at Motown - except early on when he was managing the original tiny Motown office in LA.

Dx

Edited by DaveNPete, 30 April 2012 - 06:57 AM.


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chalky
30 April 2012 - 07:03 AM
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Sonny Daye " Long long road to happiness" on Power is far better Frank Wilson.

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DaveNPete
30 April 2012 - 08:03 AM
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Never hot on it meself.
Another amusing thing is the fact that Frank Wilson (the other one who worked for Audio Arts - he also appeared on the Barry White thing on the disco evening on the Beeb - though I'm sure everyone noticed that one) kept getting the (later to be Motown) FW's pay cheques.
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