Small "45" Too Hot To Hold - Why ?

[Chris L]

Sifting through some Major Lance singles and whilst my demo of this has a large 45, the issue has a small 45 akin to those later 70s re-issues. Looking at the cat nrs there were releases after Hot to hold all with large 45s, any idea why this one has the smaller 45 ? Are there others from this era ?

[Pete S]

Maybe it wasn't released and was a demo only in 67 or whenever it was made

[Rick Cooper]

Could it have been a re-press for Belgium or Netherlands from early 70's? I don't remember demand for this one from Europe but Major Lance had a bit of a following in Belgium.

The publishers details are missed off the issue copy above, is that relevant?

Rick

[John Reed]

I dont remember seeing an issue with a with a large 45, as that was one of the first things I looked for when buying Okeh issues. Seems to have been quite popular accross Europe as I think it was issued on Epic in a few countries

[KevH]

Never noticed mine's a small 45 as well. ZSP stamped in runout. "Dark and lonely" on the flip.!!! 

Edited April 11, 2014 by KevH

[Chris L]

Could it have been a re-press for Belgium or Netherlands from early 70's? I don't remember demand for this one from Europe but Major Lance had a bit of a following in Belgium. The publishers details are missed off the issue copy above, is that relevant? Rick

 

No, not for the Belgian Popcorn scene, they only like the very early releases on purple vinyl such as Rhythm, Crying in the rain, etc. 

[Chris L]

Never noticed mine's a small 45 as well. ZSP stamped in runout. "Dark and lonely" on the flip.!!! 

 

I'd bought the demo about 5 or 6 years ago didn't realise I had the issue and it was only during a clearout that I put them next to each other.

[Chris L]

Maybe it wasn't released and was a demo only in 67 or whenever it was made

 

You may well be right Pete, looking at some other small 45 labels they do look similar and on the large 45s there are writing credits such as Jalynne and Curtom. Guess we'll never know 

[Rick Cooper]

No, not for the Belgian Popcorn scene, they only like the very early releases on purple vinyl such as Rhythm, Crying in the rain, etc.

Chris

Yes, that's what I thought (and said)but messing with the pitch on the other side "Dark and Lonely" may just get Belgian couples swaying . Do you have any thoughts on the missing publishers names? Do other small 45 re-issues always have the publisher listed?

Rick

[Guest]

The small 45 is the size Epic records used.  I always thought that the Okeh reissues had the small 45rpm because Epic did them after Okeh had finished.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Guest

[Dobber]

okeh 45's are to confusing for me,i stay clear of them,you gotta know your stuff with them!

[Chris L]

Chris

Yes, that's what I thought (and said)but messing with the pitch on the other side "Dark and Lonely" may just get Belgian couples swaying . Do you have any thoughts on the missing publishers names? Do other small 45 re-issues always have the publisher listed?

Rick

 

Yes all the small 45 one are missing publishing credits, only noticed that today when looking so I guess Pete's explanations sounds most likely. 

[Guest]

Yes all the small 45 one are missing publishing credits, only noticed that today when looking so I guess Pete's explanations sounds most likely. 

Sometimes the issues do turn up in USA junk shops in a trashed condition .  They look like they have been there a long time!

Edited April 12, 2014 by Guest

[Chris L]

Sometimes the issues do turn up in USA junk shops in a trashed condition .  They look like they have been there a long time!

 

That's possible, they were manufactured by CBS/Okeh back in the 1970s and are legitimate. Once found an Eddie Parker boot in a mom & pop junk shop in Pennsylvania   

[Guest Garry Huxley]

now gotta look through my records hope they were not issiued under licence in my mind thats a re-issiue

 

we cant know it all, well except some people

[John Benson]

My copy is the small 45 logo, bought in the late 90's from the USA - but what does that prove?

 

I seem to recall having a discussion around that time about if they were legit, but can't recall any mention of a Belgian or any other re-issue. Except that they all seemed to be like that for some reason - which was never really known....

[Rom1]

I think "Too hot to hold" with small 45 is legit & 60's, but maybe I'm wrong...I've never seen this record with a big 45 on purple issues (only on white promos)...I've asked to few big records collectors (even in USA) and they all said & noticed they had this one (and only) with small 45 on issue...but nobody knows why

 

Another big question on Major Lance Okeh 45's is about "Think nothing about it"...some says it came out, some says it never came out...me thinks it only came out on the French ep

[pikeys dog]

I've got a feeling that Major Lance had another "issue with small 45 label" release...  "Without A Doubt" springs to mind....

[Pete S]

I'm positive in my own mind that any Okeh 45 with a small 45 on the label was not originally released in the 60's, there's no way they are going to break the sequence and change the label for the odd release, they were just put out as demo copies and not full releases.  I reckon anyway.

[pikeys dog]

I'm positive in my own mind that any Okeh 45 with a small 45 on the label was not originally released in the 60's, there's no way they are going to break the sequence and change the label for the odd release, they were just put out as demo copies and not full releases.  I reckon anyway.

 

 

I agree Pete, but I think that the Major lance I'm thinking of is his last on the label and was possibly early 70's.

 

It's possible that they had run out of large 45 labels, the next lot they had made had small 45's, which they then carried through with the official reissues.

 

These demo labels could still have large 45's due to numbers made originally. 

[Tlscapital]

I'm positive in my own mind that any Okeh 45 with a small 45 on the label was not originally released in the 60's, there's no way they are going to break the sequence and change the label for the odd release, they were just put out as demo copies and not full releases.  I reckon anyway.

That's it. Strange but true. It got other world wide releases in 1965 but only promos in the US. Those smaller '45' are 7T's reissue through Epic. Never is it a 1965 release. Or is the rarest original Okeh issue yet to be find ?

[Rom1]

My own copy (with small 45) of this Okeh issue comes from a producer of French artists who received records from USA in the 60's, and looked for American songs to make it French versions for French artists i(for Sheila, Sylvie Vartan, Richard Anthony) ...I found it with records like Clydie King "Soft & gentle ways", Mel carter "Deed I do", Motown & pop stuff (all in the same box)

that's why I have a doubt for saying it's a reissue...even if I know 70's reissues have all small 45's

[Autumnstoned]

Just to add to the controversy, the entry in the Manship Guide 5th edition re the issue is as follows:-

 

Okeh 7226 *

 

* The label text 45 RPM is the same size. This is an original 1st press. Existence of stock copies with a large 45 text with smaller RPM underneath are still unconfirmed.

 

Stays in the box 

Edited April 18, 2014 by autumnstoned

[Sebastian]

but I think that the Major lance I'm thinking of is his last on the label and was possibly early 70's.

 

It's possible that they had run out of large 45 labels, the next lot they had made had small 45's, which they then carried through with the official reissues.

 

If you're thinking of "Without A Doubt" on Okeh, then it's from 1967. I've only ever seen it with a "big 45" logo, never small.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Sebastian

[Chris L]

I think "Too hot to hold" with small 45 is legit & 60's, but maybe I'm wrong...I've never seen this record with a big 45 on purple issues (only on white promos)...I've asked to few big records collectors (even in USA) and they all said & noticed they had this one (and only) with small 45 on issue...but nobody knows why

 

Another big question on Major Lance Okeh 45's is about "Think nothing about it"...some says it came out, some says it never came out...me thinks it only came out on the French ep

 

You maybe right, legit for sure.

 

Edited April 18, 2014 by Chris L

[Chris L]

I've got a feeling that Major Lance had another "issue with small 45 label" release...  "Without A Doubt" springs to mind....

 

No, does have large 45

[pikeys dog]

No, you're right I was getting my Majors mixed up....

[Dave Pinch]

pressed erroniously in 72 along with all the big hitters at the time...no real demand at the time tho........

[John Benson]

Is that fact Dave, or are you just thinking out loud?