Whats The Rarest Re-issue

[Marc Forrest]

Royal Five Say It To my face Tyler

Honey & The Bees Love Addict / Dynamite Exploded Arctic

[Guest]

some rarer/more expensive bootlegs/pressings etc from the top of my head..

Volumes Ain`t Gonna Give You Up / Bobby Adams Dr. True Love RSM (?)

rare/expensive

i paid £2.50 for mine and it was only in the past four/five years. there was also shed loads of em being sold on ebay.

[Pete S]

..once started LOL

Len Jewell All My Good Lovin Pzazz

Malibus Gee Baby Sure Shot

Melvin Davis Find A Quiet Place Wheel City

Marc these might be rare in Germany but they are very very common here, honestly.

[Marc Forrest]

Marc these might be rare in Germany but they are very very common here, honestly.

Hi Pete, in a small world like this these days what is rare in Germany is also rare in Engeland and vice versa..still I believe you when you say these are common. Just checked with JM and he hasn`t got any of them in stock though..

Marc

[Guest Rob Glover]

yeah,.me too,..and i,ve sold, 2 charles diamond on breakthrough and the yum yums on a.b.c. demo in the last few months also, Dena barnes if IYEWOML. as gone through ebay a bit silly lately also.. its on one site buy it now at 49.99

Jimmy Raye "just wait and see" very very hard now on u.k mafmon promo, does any body else have any of these now....(apart from me)...

Got three copies that I picked up cheap at Leicester Oddfellows back in about 84'

Such a good tune

[Pete S]

Hi Pete, in a small world like this these days what is rare in Germany is also rare in Engeland and vice versa..still I believe you when you say these are common. Just checked with JM and he hasn`t got any of them in stock though..

Marc

That means nothing, he didn't know Edward Hamilton had even been booted on a coloured label

trust me, I get enough of these things to know what's common or not. You can't give the melvin davis pressing away. There's Malibus on ebay every week, Len Jewells too with people trying to pass them off as originals. Damon Fox is common. Most of them are really.

[Guest]

Hi Pete, in a small world like this these days what is rare in Germany is also rare in Engeland and vice versa..still I believe you when you say these are common. Just checked with JM and he hasn`t got any of them in stock though..

Marc

i've got a copy of the Malibus I would sell if you want a copy. but they are VERY rare so price needs to reflect this

joking about the price bit , but am serious about selling - you are welcome to pm with an offer if you want it

[Guest]

a box full of boots for your perusal

[Guest Netspeaky]

Boots sold in there 100's each week at the CASINO, especially the more popular tunes, most mentioned on here were popular tunes and most people I knew who went at the time and collected records had these in there collections back then. Even people who never stayed with northern scene have these in there collection, everytime I get offered a pop soul/motown or northern collection you can almost guarantee to have a fair number of boots in amongst them.

[Guest martyn]

So, I'll answer my own question........

"However, there's a good chance you would not be holding this CD right now if it weren't for one song in particular: "Lord, What's Happening To Your People?".

Issued in 1971 as the first and only release on Kenny's own Goldspot label, (originally titled "Lord, What's Happened?"), the record was written to cash in on a particular trend that Kenny describes as the "Jesus-rock era." "It was just a market or a trend that was going on at the time, so I thought it would fit," Kenny explains. Some label owners from Chicago thought that it would fit as well. They picked up "Lord..." to re-release on their General American Records imprint.

However, General American had bigger things in mind for Kenny than the Billboard charts. They made him the Publishing Director of the company and the host of their new television show: Soul Street. Soul Street, for which Kenny also wrote the opening and closing themes, was broadcast in 36 markets around the country and featured a range of guests from local artist Tommy Wills, to more well known acts such as Lynn Collins, the Ohio Players, Little Royal, the Detroit Emeralds, Gladys Knight and James Brown. Soul Street ran for ten episodes, the first nine of which were hosted by Kenny. Behind the scenes, things were falling apart for GAR. A new host was brought in for the tenth episode, and that was it as the studio pulled the plug on the show due to unpaid bills.

Kenny was out of his element in the television studio. By the early seventies Kenny was a seasoned performer and a regular on the regional club scene. Used to the gritty and aggressive atmosphere of the nightclub, the cold, sterile television set was an environment with which Kenny was unfamiliar. Besides being a fish out of water, Kenny was face to face with people who he previously considered to be his idols. ""I got intimidated a little bit, by these people ...I used to worship 'em. James Brown, you know, I did all his stuff, danced like him, everything else. And all of a sudden, here I am in control of this guy, askin' him questions."

However, "Lord, What's Happened" would provide Kenny with recognition yet again in a strange and unexpected way. The song failed to ride the gospel-rock wave that Kenny had tried to latch onto in the U.S., but it got a second shot at success across the Atlantic in the dance clubs of Northern England.

A couple of years after its release in the States, the British Northern Soul scene discovered the record and it became an anthem at the legendary Blackpool Mecca. Demand for the single from British dj's and collectors was high enough that in 1976 that Kenny was tracked down by the infamous French rare soul dealer and producer Simon Soussan. The original contract between Kenny and Soussan's Soul Galore Disco-Sound Productions details how Smith was paid $300 in advance for the right to reissue "Lord What's Happened" for the Northern Soul market and a promise of royalties to come for any copies pressed up and sold. Look more closely, however, and one notices that it is doubtful that any "commercial" copies were ever pressed up, because Soussan had 1000 to 1500 "promotional" copies made beforehand, after which there'd be no need for any commercial copies".

https://www.shakeitrecords.com/cincinnatiso...mith/index.html

But I still think some of those Goldspot ones are dodgy........

Ian D

Which leads to a whole new can of worms...............IF some of the Goldspot issues are boots ,then how do we tell the difference from a 71 original & a 76 boot ? Also ,has anyone seen a Goldspot demo ???

[Guest selectasoul]

Always thought was one the rarest boots was Barbara McNair- You're gonna Love My Baby on Tamtown, great sound quality and an ace label design.

[Rob Wigley]

Magicians (servicemen) on Chartmaker "Sweet magic" ?

[Cunnie]

Pages - Heartaches & Pain boots are pretty scarce.

Jury's out on the King Tutt boots/re-issues/Italian press though.

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KING-TUTT-YOUVE-GOT-...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Guest]

Always thought was one the rarest boots was Barbara McNair- You're gonna Love My Baby on Tamtown, great sound quality and an ace label design.

TamTown 45, Daly City Bob pressed up 300 of these for me back in 1978-ish, but you don't see them too often these days, didn't he do a fabulous job on the label design, he was a master-at-his-work. The flip "Spellbound" was i believe the first unissued Motown track bootleg for the Northern Soul scene. He also mpressed Alfie Davidson on Monumental and Royal Five - Tyler at the same time ,also 300 copies, also now very elusive. I never took the Royal Five of him as it failed miserably on plays out, never took off. I think he had these in his stock for many, many years. But eventually found their way to the UK.

to answer Mark F question on his three suggestions Pete is right all three are common, just because they don't figure on a search on the site on any particular day doesn't mean we don't them have in stock. We just haven't replaced them cause we are busy processing other areas of vinyl. We've still have purchases from the early 80s that we haven't processed and have just made to major purchase of almost 40,000 pieces that haven't been touched for 3 months, so we do try to get every on the site ASAP but processing is a mammoth task, especially when your also buying.

The Edward Hamilton bootleg or different pressing plant orig, WAZZ the owner of this 45 is taking the details for me from the deadwax, so the mystery may be cleared up when we get that info.

Ian, just thinking stuff is "dodgy" isn't enough the deadwax and all the info requires documenting in detail. Otherwise you can get ridiculous coments like all vinyl copies of Willie Hutch on Dunhill are bootlegs etc etc. I will document every Kenny Smith on Goldspot that comes my way, but I think they'll all be originals.

For years for obvious reasons we all think if Simon Soussan had quanity and sent them to England the were bootlegs, I myslef fell foul of that mindset by selling April Silvers - Under My Thumb for £8 from the reissue area until recently, now we know they were all original he sent over.. we know sell it at £100.

Every day there's something to learn..

Anyone on this thread, own any of the five seldom-seen critters i mention earlier..Eddie Daniels etc...

John

[Guest]

Pages - Heartaches & Pain boots are pretty scarce.

Jury's out on the King Tutt boots/re-issues/Italian press though.

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KING-TUTT-YOUVE-GOT-...1QQcmdZViewItem

The jury's not out on the King Tutt I've documented both presses, the Italian press is a counterfeit.. and not a very good one, at that.

John

[Bazm]

Anyone on this thread, own any of the five seldom-seen critters i mention earlier..Eddie Daniels etc...

John

Edited April 5, 2009 by BazM

[Guest]

Anyone on this thread, own any of the five seldom-seen critters i mention earlier..Eddie Daniels etc...

John

Hi John

I've got the Darrel Banks counterfeit

How do you tell the Lee Mitchell from the orig?

Best

BazM

different coloured label and P.B. in the deadwax

[Cunnie]

The jury's not out on the King Tutt I've documented both presses, the Italian press is a counterfeit.. and not a very good one, at that.

John

When I said 'jury's out' I meant regarding the rarity of it John as the copies that keep popping up on e bay go for quite a lot.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian, just thinking stuff is "dodgy" isn't enough the deadwax and all the info requires documenting in detail. Otherwise you can get ridiculous coments like all vinyl copies of Willie Hutch on Dunhill are bootlegs etc etc. I will document every Kenny Smith on Goldspot that comes my way, but I think they'll all be originals.

For years for obvious reasons we all think if Simon Soussan had quanity and sent them to England the were bootlegs, I myslef fell foul of that mindset by selling April Silvers - Under My Thumb for £8 from the reissue area until recently, now we know they were all original he sent over.. we know sell it at £100.

Every day there's something to learn..

John

True, true mate. I always knew the April Silva's were originals even though they looked like boots 'cos I'd stumbled into it early on but the first time I ever saw a Kenny Smith on Goldspot was directly from Soussan so naturally I assumed the worst. Every copy I've ever seen up to that point was on GAR........

Also what me wonder was this was the period where Soussan seemed to be doing very limited presses of some items - the afformentioned Eddie Daniels, Lee Mitchell, George Blackwell etc, etc so I can be forgiven LOL. Was it the only release on the label though?

Ian D

[good angel]

Its a wonder with all the computer technology now,that no ones tried to pull a fast one and make counterfit copys of let say a Don Gardner or a Frank Wilson,

lets face its been done in the antique trade.

Kev

[Chalky]

Its a wonder with all the computer technology now,that no ones tried to pull a fast one and make counterfit copys of let say a Don Gardner or a Frank Wilson,

lets face its been done in the antique trade.

Kev

it would probably be computer technology that would make it stand out as a boot. you would probably have to replicate the materials and processes from the 60's to stand a chance of pulling it off. The vast majority of fakes in any collecting market get found out.

[good angel]

it would probably be computer technology that would make it stand out as a boot. you would probably have to replicate the materials and processes from the 60's to stand a chance of pulling it off. The vast majority of fakes in any collecting market get found out.

Chalky,

If the British Museum,can be fooled by some fakes,whats our chances then?

Regards,Kev

[joe lakin]

GOT A BOOTLEG/PRESSING OF PERCY AND THEM.. LOOK IN THE MIRROR OF MY EYES ON A GREEN LABEL CALLED SUSIE B, BACKED WITH MARY WELLS, THESE ARMS. THIS MUST BE QUITE RARE AS I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN ANOTHER COPY. ANY OF YOU KNOWLEDGEABLE SOURCERERS SHED ANY LIGHT ON THIS PRESSING.......

JOE.

[Ian Dewhirst]

it would probably be computer technology that would make it stand out as a boot. you would probably have to replicate the materials and processes from the 60's to stand a chance of pulling it off. The vast majority of fakes in any collecting market get found out.

True. Plus you can't access the original raw vinyl material anymore. When the oil crisis kicked in during the mid 70's the raw vinyl manufacturers lessened their reliance on the petrolium components. These days I think there's just a couple of suppliers and they both use vinyl pellets.

Also the whole label processes have changed - the printing, the ink and the paper itself. I tried to replicate Cream's "Disraeli Gears" sleeve when I worked at Simply Vinyl and there wasn't a single company who could replicate day-glo colours LOL.....

Ian D

[Guest]

Chalky,

If the British Museum,can be fooled by some fakes,whats our chances then?

Regards,Kev

A record stamper is the same same a fingerprint it's unique to that release. the harder counterfeiters try and replicate the more they mess up. It would be better to do a totally different press and try and convince it's another "different press" from another area and plant.

with records we always have the original to scrutinize against the counterfeit, with antiques there is not a definitive blueprint, so that gives a loophole for the skilled and inventive forger.

With records paper is the biggest problem, the paper technology has moved on so far.... but having said that 60s book pages could be used, those blank pages at the front...then you have to find the dyes, most are now illegal as they were cancer causing.. I'd say out of all the things to forge and be successful the hardest to replicate and deceive are records. That's why I document all matrix #'s, widths, etc.. so far every attempt and forgery of NS classic or in-demand titles have been blatantly obvious (i think).

But I do believe there may have been a few unissued tape finds that may have been pressed up. But even that can be clumsily done..ie Toby Bullard etc.

Reference Frank Wilson, first you have to have the original press to copy from.. that may be a tricky task in itself.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Reference Frank Wilson, first you have to have the original press to copy from.. that may be a tricky task in itself.

Gratuitious plug LOL.

Are you all sorted for Paul O'Grady then?

Ian D

[good angel]

A record stamper is the same same a fingerprint it's unique to that release. the harder counterfeiters try and replicate the more they mess up. It would be better to do a totally different press and try and convince it's another "different press" from another area and plant.

with records we always have the original to scrutinize against the counterfeit, with antiques there is not a definitive blueprint, so that gives a loophole for the skilled and inventive forger.

With records paper is the biggest problem, the paper technology has moved on so far.... but having said that 60s book pages could be used, those blank pages at the front...then you have to find the dyes, most are now illegal as they were cancer causing.. I'd say out of all the things to forge and be successful the hardest to replicate and deceive are records. That's why I document all matrix #'s, widths, etc.. so far every attempt and forgery of NS classic or in-demand titles have been blatantly obvious (i think).

But I do believe there may have been a few unissued tape finds that may have been pressed up. But even that can be clumsily done..ie Toby Bullard etc.

Reference Frank Wilson, first you have to have the original press to copy from.. that may be a tricky task in itself.

Thanks John,

One thing when you come on S/S, or Ian,I always come off site a bit wiser.

Kind Regards,Kev

[Guest tonyolly]

got a white GAR kenny smith...what about all the white OOTP selecta pressings dont see many now

[Premium Stuff]

Always thought was one the rarest boots was Barbara McNair- You're gonna Love My Baby on Tamtown, great sound quality and an ace label design.

TamTown 45, Daly City Bob pressed up 300 of these for me back in 1978-ish, but you don't see them too often these days, didn't he do a fabulous job on the label design, he was a master-at-his-work. The flip "Spellbound" was i believe the first unissued Motown track bootleg for the Northern Soul scene.

What would a fair price be on one of these TamTown 45s please anyone?

I have one somewhere, which I bought as new, but if I remember correctly the label printing was a bit dodgy (patchy print) in places

Cheers

Richard

Edited April 5, 2009 by Premium Stuff

[Ian Dewhirst]

got a white GAR kenny smith...what about all the white OOTP selecta pressings dont see many now

Those OOTP pressings weren't Selecta - they were via Chris Burton ex owner of the Torch I believe......

Ian D

Edited April 5, 2009 by Ian Dewhirst

[Guest]

GOT A BOOTLEG/PRESSING OF PERCY AND THEM.. LOOK IN THE MIRROR OF MY EYES ON A GREEN LABEL CALLED SUSIE B, BACKED WITH MARY WELLS, THESE ARMS. THIS MUST BE QUITE RARE AS I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN ANOTHER COPY. ANY OF YOU KNOWLEDGEABLE SOURCERERS SHED ANY LIGHT ON THIS PRESSING.......

JOE.

I've had this, can't remember who I sold it to now. I can't verify this info but I was told by someone who knows his stuff that the Susie B is an Italian jukebox only release, though I doubt it was a legal project!

[Guest martyn]

True, true mate. I always knew the April Silva's were originals even though they looked like boots 'cos I'd stumbled into it early on but the first time I ever saw a Kenny Smith on Goldspot was directly from Soussan so naturally I assumed the worst. Every copy I've ever seen up to that point was on GAR........

Also what me wonder was this was the period where Soussan seemed to be doing very limited presses of some items - the afformentioned Eddie Daniels, Lee Mitchell, George Blackwell etc, etc so I can be forgiven LOL. Was it the only release on the label though?

Ian D

Has anyone ever seen a Goldspot demo ?

[Soul-chef]

GOT A BOOTLEG/PRESSING OF PERCY AND THEM.. LOOK IN THE MIRROR OF MY EYES ON A GREEN LABEL CALLED SUSIE B, BACKED WITH MARY WELLS, THESE ARMS. THIS MUST BE QUITE RARE AS I'VE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN ANOTHER COPY. ANY OF YOU KNOWLEDGEABLE SOURCERERS SHED ANY LIGHT ON THIS PRESSING.......

JOE.

Pressed up for the Caroliners Beech Scene.......Susie B was (is) Dj down there & she pressed up other titles on lables,not using her own name.................The Chef..............

[Rob Wigley]

Right being really Controversial here what about Ray Agee "I'm losing again" Soultown

Reputedly "Un-issued" and bootlegged for the "B" side "Good loving woman"

I was told by John Hillyard years ago thet "I get want lists all the time from the UK and the first record at the top of the list is always the Ray Agee bootleg !

£2,000 worth of pressing if he's right !

Rob

Edited April 5, 2009 by Karen and Rob Wigley

[Raresoul45s]

Anyone mentioned The Trips sold one last week yellow Soundville replica no raised H in dead wax, booted on soultown as well if im not mistaken and fetched alot of money few weeks back.

Darren

www.raresoul45s.co.uk

[Davetay]

George Blackwell - Can't Lose My Head - Smoke beige label vinyl press plays to fast..a Pete Lawson project.

Hi John, hope your keeping well.

I'm pretty sure it was Keith Brady and not Pete Lawson that did this. Both lads were from Ormskirk.

It was Keith who was selling them at the Mecca.

Yours Dave Taylor.

Edited April 5, 2009 by davetay

[Soul Shrews]

Question for Mr Manship, How do you tell a real Eddie Daniels from the boot?

Cheers Paul

[Guest]

Question for Mr Manship, How do you tell a real Eddie Daniels from the boot?

Cheers Paul

PB in the run-out means it's a boot (I think)

[Eddie Hubbard]

Try and answer two questions in one reply.

Chalky,

The Sam Fletcher, Eddie fosters etc, etc pressed in coloured vinyl or multi-coloured vinyls are all ridiculously rare because Bob & Henry only did a few of each for their own amusement. Unless you were close friends with them you never had a chance of a copy. Each multicoloured press maybe as little as five of each, they are all individual no two are the same, of course. So yes the multi-babies are reallyb rare..

The Del-larks blue and white, would sell in access of £50 maybe as much as £75.. i Do have a copy and it turns up occasionally. The John & The Weirdest is fairly common by comparison but a still achieves £75-ish (or £2000) depending on who's selling you it.

I find bootlegs fascinating and have decided this year, to keep 1 copy of everything I get back in stock, so when I go to the vinyl warehouse in the sky. The girls here can carry on the business as usual. and use my file copies as a reference..

Eddie Daniels bootleg I think is just about the toughest to find (barring multi-coloured one-offs).. and the work of P.B. by the way. As is the Lee Mitchell on Roll another P.B. masterpiece.

john

What about The Del Larks on skyblue and black label boot ? Who was P.B. John ? Thanks ,Eddie

[Neil Rushton]

No theres loads of those about Paul.

Rarest or rather most expensive at the moment sppear to be Yum Yums 1st press, Inspirations on Breakthrough and John & The Weirdest.

We had 1,000 Inspirations from the label and expected the original version to arrive, not the differet take. They were really hard to sell at the time and unlike the Yum Yums and John & The Weirdest were legal re-issues not bootlegs.

[Mal C]

Here's an interesting one, recently a chap in Japan sold a Nat T Jones - Moving Forward / Goliath red issue in styrene, that he said was a 2nd issue, personally I had never heard of it being booted, but it seems to have been a bigish sound back in the late 7ts..

Anyone? cause it aint in any of the guides...

Mal.C.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Mal.C.

[Pete S]

Here's an interesting one, recently a chap in Japan sold a Nat T Jones - Moving Forward / Goliath red issue in styrene, that he said was a 2nd issue, personally I had never heard of it being booted, but it seems to have been a bigish sound back in the late 7ts..

Anyone? cause it aint in any of the guides...

Mal.C.

I mentioned this on page 1 - this was booted

[45cellar]

I mentioned this on page 1 - this was booted

This One Has P.B. In The Deadwax.

Caught Me Out Back In The 70's.

Bought A Real DEMO Soon After.

[Mal C]

I mentioned this on page 1 - this was booted

I see you did, I joined this on page 3 so missed that...

Mal.

[Guest soulboy]

very interesting replys to this ? having read replys to past topics about pressing and the almost violent response to having a pressing in your box / house /life ,I know it will never happen now in this present down turn ,but allways wondered why more record companys never did more reissues of real hard to find records that way at least the people involved in making the disc got some thing back ,

[Chalky]

very interesting replys to this ? having read replys to past topics about pressing and the almost violent response to having a pressing in your box / house /life ,I know it will never happen now in this present down turn ,but allways wondered why more record companys never did more reissues of real hard to find records that way at least the people involved in making the disc got some thing back ,

because there would probably be no decent return/profit!

[Ted Massey]

Right being really Controversial here what about Ray Agee "I'm losing again" Soultown

Reputedly "Un-issued" and bootlegged for the "B" side "Good loving woman"

I was told by John Hillyard years ago thet "I get want lists all the time from the UK and the first record at the top of the list is always the Ray Agee bootleg !

£2,000 worth of pressing if he's right !

Rob

I heard that years ago as well but it shares the same stamp in r/outs as the Sweets and John & the wierdest

[Chalky]

I heard that years ago as well but it shares the same stamp in r/outs as the Sweets and John & the wierdest

I heard that too and that Ray Agee wasn't aware that it had been released either. Nowt new there, many artists unaware their material had seen a release. When we first met Don Gardner and he was shown Cheating Kind for the first time he said he wasn't aware it had been released.

[Codfromderby]

how about "sugar pie, its the same old song" by the detroit shakers on brainstorm, isnt there only supposed to be a few of them, cant remember what the actual record is, pj broby i think, got another motown thing on the otherside,anyone remember this,

also used to have a johnny bragg on a white label ebj, never seen another, please dont tell me this is legit

[Guest]

how about "sugar pie, its the same old song" by the detroit shakers on brainstorm, isnt there only supposed to be a few of them, cant remember what the actual record is, pj broby i think, got another motown thing on the otherside,anyone remember this,

also used to have a johnny bragg on a white label ebj, never seen another, please dont tell me this is legit

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/91377/BRAGG%2C+JOHNNY

Edited April 6, 2009 by mikecook