Well it may be close to November the 5th but no more fireworks from me I promise, well not yet anyway, I hope my Theme Park items were taken as tounge in cheek with a slight serious tinge as recently the commercial eliment has become a little too much... still the board game was a good idea and is now in production lol. However, still the Northern Soul dark side continues with yet again more abuse or so it would seem this time in the to be polite re issue field of otherwise hard to find rare Soul records being pressed, now this practice has gone hand in hand since the year dot but it dont make it right does it, some may argue that it makes rare and popular tunes available to the masses at a reasonable price which is a fair comment but again it dont make it right.
Recently I have seen several new titles out there which I suspect are basically bootlegs including Bobby Reed - Time Is Right For Love, Kurt Harris - Emperor To My Babys Heart, Baby Washington - Leave Me Alone, Carol Anderson - Sad Girl, Mel Britt, Shell Come Running Back, Constellations - I Dont Know About You B/W I Didnt Know How To and possibly the biggest pisser off for collectors Mr Soul - What Happened To Yesterday.
All of these titles have been made to look like the original in terms of label design and retail at £10.00 each now take on board that at least 1000 copies may have beed pressed of each title take out production costs of maybe £2.00 per record but I suspect its less thats possibly £8,000 per title profit x seven titles is a possible profit sold as retail of £56,000 ok some will be sold wholesale so knock off five grand still leaves a possible £50,000 hard cash to be made on these records if you can call them that! The strange thing is that all of these titles are available on compact disc so in terms of wanting to enjoy the tunes as home entertaiment is there any need to produce this batch on vinyl? Call me a purist, snob or whatever but rare Soul collecting has always been about the chase, tracking down a record,doing the deal and moving on to the next one, how can such re issues warrent any credability or have any collectable value for the future, itd true that certain big title old pressings do sell at inflated prices on ebay for example, but to destroy big collectable records in this day and age is nothing more than criminal.
Not destroying the true original value but sometimes can kill a top tune dead in the water as it no longer is exclusive. Of course if all the correct lines have been followed prior to these records being pressed then I will retract my comments here, so if the MCPS and or the BPI channel has been taken where upon you pay a fixed fee for each track which is put aside in a fund should the official ownwer or publisher of the work appear then he or she can claim basically a small payment, or if direct permission has been secured form the owner which will validate the authenticity of these so called re issues. Again this seems to me to be a direct abuse of the ideals and ethics of the Norhern Scene and is yet another way to make a fast buck at the exspence of firstly the recording artiste, producer, label and publishing owners and more importantly the Soul fan.
I feel you would be better off spending your £10.00 on a nice little cheap original at least then you are keeping it real to the scene and yourself, some people may suggest that the artistes see nothing of the huge amounts of money the top tunes go for via various dealers but thats a totally seperate issue and at least you are buying into something which is basically second hand and which has not been manufactured in modern time for financial gain, anyhow collectors and DJs have their own minds and money come to think of it, hane their own minds and do what they do as it is simply what you do, all DJs for example should play nothing less than authentic original records, sorry but if you cant stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen as this is the finest Soul food in the world. I dont own a bootleg, would not dream of playing one at a venue and feel that is far too easy as we could all do that with the titles that currently seem to be hitting the streets, at least the likes of Grapevine 2000, Ace/Kent etc. go through the correct legal channels so these guys I salute, the other fast buck merchants well I hope they get stuck with any iffy questionable so called second issues,strange one of the labels here the Mr Soul 45 is on Genuine perhaps this word should have been researched prior to going to press, I have a pretty good idea of the source of this current batch but for legal reasons I cant really go there can I?
If this current trend continues I can see many more big titles coming out, but one good thing is it does not in anyway spoil the real deal and the original records, a bit like rare works of art like the Mona Lisa for example as there are millions of copies and prints worldwide but only one original. Im not having a go as it makes no difference to me and many others who are serious record people but it does make a nonsence out of the meaning rare hard to find and not often seen, so Mr Soul aka Al Scott is still a shit rare record on original and the fakes are just worthless and cant or rather should not be played at a venue for example as your not really playing it are you your cheating yourself and the public which can not be right? Another point is why make them look like the authentic originals, why if your going to do this just put them out on a white label then at least you know what you are dealing with.
Still something else to be sold in the Theme Park gift shop, but dont file under rare Soul please because they are not.
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Poster Thread Guest Posted: 2003/10/29 8:51 Updated: 2003/10/29 8:51
re: al scot Bootlegs yes.i certainley agree on this whole shambles of lookalike labels.& the profits that end up in a little villiage in worksop notts. the only way of combatting this scam is not let djs known for playing bootlegs appear behind the decks.promoters i;am taiking aboat you. stay clear of venues & promoters & there so called bootleg djs who & try con the paying punters. and if you are out & aboat and happen to hear a al scott go over to the decks & if it is a £10.00 lookalike.do what i wouid do skim it back to worksop were it belongs with the rest of them. anon
Guest Posted: 2003/10/29 10:59 Updated: 2003/10/29 10:59
re: blame the dealers also.. Interesting stuff cause i have djd with most of the so called Big DJs(WELL THEY THINK THEY ARE)LOL and 50% of them have played a booth or a dub at some stage and still do. I remember being a resident at the 100club/csc and certain Big DJs slipping in the odd dub with a scan of the original label. They might deny this but i know it to be true, christ ive played the odd dub myself of an unissued acetate. I personally dont think you should blame the DJs but hit the record dealers who are making profits from selling bootleg material. They are the worst offenders in my opinion. You here all these moans about bootleggers (rightly so) but what about the people moving the stuff? so when out over the next few weeks and looking at records maybe people should let dealers know that there not happy with them selling this kinda illegal material.
Greg (capitol Soul Club)
Guest Posted: 2003/10/29 15:22 Updated: 2003/10/29 15:22
re: blame the dealers also..
Off topic comment but I particularly liked the story of the club in the North East which has two decks spinning with a couple of bootlegs on them but plays CDs all night, is it really true? Fair enough, it doesnt really matter what format you play at many clubs because a lot of people really dont seem to want to hear a new track unless its on a CD (strange but true) but the fact they bothered spinning records they are not playing is laughable. On the above topic, good article Mark and very fair comment. I guess a lot of dealers will tell you that they have to make a living and their occupation is selling people what they want to buy, not trying to become a saint. The people who press up this stuff are the ones to blame, but I guess that this pales into insignificance against the 4 Vandals, Venetia Wilson etc frauds which were touted about by that idiot as originals and are now available at "knock down" prices. Still, they are quite expensive compared to the vastly superior tracks in this latest batch. And some record company put them on CD didnt it? Unbelievable....
Guest Posted: 2003/10/29 19:37 Updated: 2003/10/29 19:37
re: blame the dealers also.. its also seems funny how a certain auction site has one or two sellers who offer white labels of the latest bootlegs afew weeks before they become common and also they also seem to have stocks of the 4 vandels v williams etc
Guest Posted: 2003/10/30 9:32 Updated: 2003/10/30 9:32
Different Strokes...or pulling a few ? well here we go again, the old Bootleg Monster raises its head again. Love em or dispise em theyve been around since the late Sixties. You pays your money and you takes your chance as they say. Theres two things that motivate people Need & Greed. Couple this with your own Income, and the picture becomes clearer. Bootlegs are Cash generators for the Bootlegers, and a Godsend for some of our community, and just like fake Rolex Watches theres Fake records. Human nature is and always will be a good leveler of things. Promoters could if they wished "Ban boots from the decks" but would it stop Bootlegging, probably not. Its up to the Individual really whether you support it or not. Yes "Put up or Shut up". Meanwhile the bootlegging continues.
Best Wishes To All Ritchie.
Guest Posted: 2003/10/31 12:57 Updated: 2003/10/31 12:57
Re: Different Strokes...or pulling a few ? Like most collectors, I have the odd boot in my collection though they were all bought in ignorance as a young lad 20 years ago and I only hang on to them now for old times sake (eg I bought one of the off-centre Mel Britts at the Notts Oddfellows in Leicester when I was 15...I had no idea of the value of a real one so didnt realise that the £3 asking price meant it was obviously being sold as a boot. Ill never chuck or sell it because its a part of my northern history but I recognise it for what it is). I wouldnt buy a boot now and would never DJ with one if I ever DJd anywhere. Not a matter of people finding out - just wouldnt sit right with me. That said, Im not too exercised about this latest batch of bootlegs, either. If people want to waste £10-20 on a bootleg, fine by me. I agree with Mark that they would be better off buying a cheap original but it takes all sorts to make the world go round, doesnt it? Some people (most of us actually) prefer vinyl to CD and not everyone can afford four figure sums for rarities; maybe they get a nice feeling out of half owning a Masquaders or whatever? Two points really: 1) Its a shame for the original artists/writers - they are the ones who are really being ripped off 2) I guess it is, in some ways, a healthy sign for the scene - you dont see many bootlegs of old 70s disco records, 80s heavy metal or 90s house floating around, after all...
jazzyjas Posted: 2003/10/31 21:44 Updated: 2003/10/31 21:44 Joined: 2002/10/16 From: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 25
Northern Soul Bootlegs Thank you for bringing this up. I have NO idea of the purpose of these things. Every one of these shit pressings are available on high quality CDs, which are legitimate and CHEAPER! I have a really large collection of northern soul 45s and to me, the best part is finding good songs. I dont care if theyre worth big money or very little money. Good songs are good songs. Like most people, I cant afford 4 figure records. Id rather have a whole pile of original cheapies that you dont hear as often. Ive spun extremely rare and expensive records at gigs and theres really no reason for me to do it, so I bring two large books of CDs with way more songs on them. The most important part is the music. I get to play way more sounds and with better quality. As far as "cheating" on the decks, I dont grasp the whole concept because no one competes with me. I think playing legit reissues and CDs with your own 45s burnt onto them is the way to go. This way your collection stays safe at home with little wear and tear. I have no need to impress anyone when they step up to the decks. I have impressed many in the past and anyone who knows me personally knows that my collection, since 1978 is 99% originals, no matter what type of music. I have nothing to prove. If music is good, then it should be heard. Thats just for the love of the music. Now-about the money aspect: The act of making a fast buck from this junk really pisses me off! It s disgusting when top guys like Ady Croasdell, Richard Searling, Andy Rix, Kev Roberts, etc. go through all of this trouble to put these specialty items out there for us, and people want to take what they did and press up these junk 45s and then, have the nerve to turn around and demand ridiculous prices for these unauthorized inferior products. Its a big waste of time when Im scrolling through E-Bay, too! If other people want to get in on the action, why not put out things that havent been comped out, yet? Bring something else to the table and let the experts do their thing. They dont really care about the scene when they do shit like that. They take away from it. I make my own CDRs of northern soul from legit CDs that I have gladly paid for. I make these just to play in my car and every now and then I use them at gigs. If someone new to northern soul, who is a personal friend asks for a copy, Ill gladly give them one, just to get them started. From there, they can go buy their own stuff. As far as my vinyl, not yet comped out legitimately, Ill gladly trade my own CDRs with other like minded collectors, just to share music and for that reason alone. Overall, people need to only support the legitimate producers of high quality reissues and buy the real CDs/vinyl themselves. Without that support, such items as the Kent CDs, and the Goldmine Soul Supply would never exist. I guess people who really care about the scene wont buy this junk anyway.
Right on again Mark!
KTF Jason H. Thornton (Jazzy Jas)
Guest Posted: 2003/11/1 20:06 Updated: 2003/11/1 20:06
BOOTLEGERS WELL SAID MARK I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU,VE SAID !!! THEY HAVE NOT TRIED TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE YOUR AVERAGE BOOT BUT DONE THEIR BEST TO COUNTERFIET THE LABEL WHICH IS WELL OUT OF ORDER ,PEOPLE JUST INTERESTED IN MAKING ££££,S DONT GIVE A SHITE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE ! KIND REGARDS IAN C
PaulW Posted: 2003/11/1 23:09 Updated: 2003/11/1 23:09 user Joined: 2003/10/11 From: Posts: 8 Re: Northern Soul Bootlegs
Top post Jason. Well said Mark. AGREE 100%.
Guest Posted: 2003/11/10 11:30 Updated: 2003/11/10 11:30 Legitimate Record Labels Pay Royalties?
"The act of making a fast buck from this junk really pisses me off! It s disgusting when top guys like Ady Croasdell, Richard Searling, Andy Rix, Kev Roberts, etc. go through all of this trouble to put these specialty items out there for us, and people want to take what they did and press up these junk 45s and then, have the nerve to turn around and demand ridiculous prices for these unauthorized inferior products." Err, are you sure that you meant to include ALL of these in that list? PMSL.
Guest Posted: 2003/12/24 20:05 Updated: 2003/12/24 20:05 re: al scot Bootlegs
It absolutely amazes me listening to this argument about boots.I would like the person who booted The Soul Bros Inc.Pyramid to be named and shamed.As you know Mark you have bought copies of this,and you have sold them on E-Bay.
Guest Posted: 2003/12/25 16:32 Updated: 2003/12/25 16:32 re: al scot Bootlegs
Just thought of another one you were selling. This was the dogs B*******.At the time."DOUG BANKS".Ijust kept on dancin".Another E.P with the following tracks.Jonnie Mae Mathews.Kenny Shepherd.+Another.FOUND OUT.big d33
Guest Posted: 2003/12/25 16:40 Updated: 2003/12/25 16:40
re: al scot Bootlegs Gosh, Sounds like you have been caught CHEERS@23.co.uk
Guest Posted: 2003/12/27 23:48 Updated: 2003/12/27 23:48
re: al scot Bootlegs ????? WELLL
Guest Posted: 2003/12/28 12:39 Updated: 2003/12/28 12:39
Re: Northern Soul Bootlegs OKAY.... I dont believe that "legal" reissue labels mean that the writers/artists are better off. The money tends to go to label owners... if anywhere at all, normally it goes nowhere. I dont believe that "legal" labels never do anything illegal, I know that many releases are without question no more legal than the pressings they slag off. I think lookalike bootlegs are good and there should be alot more of them, because.... 1. it will sort out the true collectors from the ego trippers. 2. it will help align original prices back to rarity driven, rather than popular indemand driven (the Constellations is a classic case of this). 3. it will give the chance to novice collectors to have lookalikes of the records they love, but can no longer afford (no fault of their own). 4. too bad for branded reissue labels let them EARN their money and TAKE SOME RISK, through digging deeper into the unissued vaults. I dont agree with playing from CD, I think rare soul means rare soul. I do think that CD singles with a scanned original label are a good idea going forward for the novice collector. Pressings are part of our scene, we should just let it be. However, counterfieting using original stamping plates, old melted vinyl and original label plates are not lookalikes they are counterfiets and should be treated in the same way as any money counterfieting operation.
Last comment, those people behind the legal reissue labels taking the higher morale ground had better do 2 things...
1. look back into their past and stop throwing stones.
2. stop trying to lobby the masses about ethics, theyre in it for purely selfish financial reasons themselves. Make no mistake about that. Now, I bloody mean it when I say those in glass houses shouldnt throw stones... Im serious!! By the way,..... I am in no way a bootlegger or a double agenda rip off dealer. I am infact a serious collector of original rare soul. But,... I do hate hypocracy, its so unsoulful !!!