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Pete Lawson 1984 Letter To Blackbeat

I've finally managed to find this….enjoy

LETTERS TO THE EDITQR

write to the Mag address with your soul letters

Dear Blackbeat

I Have just got to have a say in the 60s newie versus modern soul/played out oldies argument, as I have been on the scene since 1972, having started at the Torch through Blackpool Highland Room, Mecca, Va Vas, Wigan Casino, Yate, Catacombs. All the good clubs, with the exception of St Ives and Samanthas. l experienced the first split in 1976-60s v New York disco, when they said what they have said since, and are saying now, that there are no quality 60s unknown black records left. It was Levine in 1976 with Sam on the opposition. It was Sam saying it in 1980 with Searling disagreeing. Now it is Searling's turn to change his colours in 1984.

It seems very convenient for these DJs, after years of turning up mainly class 60s northern soul records, that when the going gets tough they tend to take the easy way out, and fall into the modern soul clone syndrome, they all sound and do the same as each other. The three main arguments levelled at the 60s newies scene is 1) they are covered up because they are not rare, 2) they are already well known, 3) they are white and should not be played. 

I am quite sure these three tags could be tied to some of the current plays ie Mickey Newbury c/u,Tearettes c/u(white) , Rosie St John & Wonderettes, Creations 'Foot steps' (known before played), Lee Edwards & Continentals 5 'I got to have her', need I say more, along with the latter, not rare. But here is a list of white stompers played on the scene up until Wigan Casino's welcomed closure: Sammy Stevens on Swan,Benzine, Nightwatch, Gary Lewis, Nosmo King, Wayne Gibson, Footsee, Trade Martin ‘I wouldn’t do anything, Greater Experience, Vogues and many more which Richard Searling and Soul Sam both had a hand in being responsible for half of them. Then the 45s spun which weren't rare like Frank Dell, Friendly People, New Wanderers, Rosie Jones, Traditions, Jerry Cooke, Nancy Wilson, Moses Smith, Butch Baker, Jimmy Conwell 'Too much 'and 100's more played between 1970 and 1982.

The ones played which were known-when Richard played Herbie Williams c/u and Mel Britt c/u they were quite well known in the Wigan record bar,as we know the former as being Court Davis and the latter as Jackie Beavers on Revilot, why cover them up as they are rare records anyway and there are … 

 

 

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I think Pete's feelings crept in probably in the early 80s by which point the factions for traditional 60s Northern vs 70s and 80s were probably much greater then previous eras. 

 

 

 

 

….three way split by 84 - 60s newies v 60s oldies v modern….Steve

 

Ian, you got to remember there was also an Oldies v newies split within 60s too….we had a series of letters on that as well…..many of the gigs in the home counties, Peterborough, leicester, Notts way that get championed these days as "great places" were very much oldies based  - and basic it was too…."Cause you're mine", "Right track", "Soul Step", Wakefield Sun….gigs that frankly were not worth going out and crossing the road for! Steve

Edited by Steve G
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Not sure about Notts Steve, by the mid 80s the oldies lot had either dropped off or were prepared to listen to 60s Newies. The crowd that was left were mainly open minded.

 

Even supposed oldies nights like Ripley (over the border) featured a hour or so of underplayed / newies. Cant think of many pure oldies nights in Notts beyond 85 TBH.

 

You are right that there was an oldies vs Newies debate across the scene back then though that one could say got somewhat heated. 

 

 

Ian, you got to remember there was also an Oldies v newies split within 60s too….we had a series of letters on that as well…..many of the gigs in the home counties, Peterborough, leicester, Notts way that get championed these days as "great places" were very much oldies based  - and basic it was too…."Cause you're mine", "Right track", "Soul Step", Wakefield Sun….gigs that frankly were not worth going out and crossing the road for! Steve

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Has anyone got a few copies of blackbeat that they would sell or lend me? I'd love to read them as I find the history of the scene in the 80s really interesting.

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 Can anyone enlighten me as to who the "Pondie Boys" were/ are ? the only thing i can think of is that this was a set of gentlemen with a collective partiality and appreciation for the drug ponderax? could be well off with this , anyone know better?

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He was speaking a lot of truth and it still applies in a lot of ways. He was proved right by the amount of incredible stuff Stafford turned up and the great stuff that has turned up since and still surfaces now. Love the passion of his statement! He was no fence sitter.

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Can anyone enlighten me as to who the "Pondie Boys" were/ are ? the only thing i can think of is that this was a set of gentlemen with a collective partiality and appreciation for the drug ponderax? could be well off with this , anyone know better?

I don't think you are far off!
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One thing with Pete was he didn't mince his word.  he was the same in print or in your face and he told you like it was, no bullshit.  He would despair at the scene today and would probably have been banned from the forums long ago :lol:

 

Great reading Steve, thanks.

I met Rob Marriott a few month's back Chalky and I asked him about the scene today, he appeared in the the same frame of mind has Pete Lawson.He has regrets but don't we all.Their knowledge of the scene is missed because they have stories to blow your mind.
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Great thread Steve, have some great memories early 80's knocking about with Cockney Mick.

Last time I saw him he was gonna let me have his collection of Back Beat mags.

 

Hi, he was my biggest seller, got through 50-70 of each issue by just walking round venues selling them, in return I let him have a column for a while ….I saw him at the Penang Charity all dayer that Rowena organised in May….he hasn't changed a bit…. :lol:

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Mick's modern movers wasn't it Steve? ;-)

Last time I saw him was at Southampton all Dayer last year.

Got a lift with him once to Leighton Buzzard all dayer in his Lotus Cortina, he dropped me off 2 miles from my house because he said it was 'too far out in the sticks' for his car!,

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latest in a series of highlights of forum posts being upgraded to the article feature

this was first posted in the forums Nov 2014 - now added to the articles feature Sep 2018

 

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Had it all figured out didn't he? Fast forward a few years and most of those luminaries he mentions go on record saying the quality and volume of 60's unknown 45's was on the wane. Whilst I agree with him on the stale playlist subject i take exception with his superiority complex. You tend to live and die by what you say on this scene and sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for as you just might get it! Stood in a venue with the pondie boys and a scattering of other flat earthers with no chance of getting an atmosphere going, not my cup of tea. After all it's a 10 Yr period and no matter how prolific it was, it could only be a finite figure. It may have been seen as 'their scene' by some but it wasn't, most people progressed from the 'jet age' to further their education and were just as passionate as they were, more in fact. 'Judge baby.. i rest my case.' 

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Then, as now, I believe the arguments helped attendances at venues that were labelled 60's Newies etc.  It made people nail their colours to the mast.  
My favourite thing from this whole backward and forward debate, was being fortunate to go round Dave Hitch's house as he decided to sell off all his rare 60's northern to finance buying new and independent release 80's. I think between myself and one of the main Stafford DJ's we had most of his very impressive collection, a lot of which found it's way onto the turntables of the venues playing rare 60's, so for all his disagreements in the columns of Black Beat in his way he helped promote the 60's scene !

 

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On 15/11/2014 at 13:45, paul-s said:

There was a lot of white pop played at Stafford yes, not my cup of tea. But there was  a lot of good black music played too.

Yes you're right.

Pete Lawson say's 'Sammy Sevens' on Swan is white. Sure I read somewhere it was Chubby Checker using a pseudonym??

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On 15/11/2014 at 13:45, paul-s said:

There was a lot of white pop played at Stafford yes, not my cup of tea. But there was  a lot of good black music played too.

In the quest for the next new discovery, any venue of influence in any era, crap was played, pop , soul, white or black.  But the turn over at Stafford guaranteed anything not up to standard didn't last long, many never played a second time.  

 

But again like Paul says many great records were played, many are now classics and highly sought after, even by people who say Stafford was shite but they don't realise what they were playing (whilst they were talking to me slagging Stafford off) was a Stafford discovery 😂

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On 21/09/2018 at 07:57, chas said:

Whilst I agree with him on the stale playlist subject i take exception with his superiority complex.

Whereas I admire his superiority complex. I wouldn’t have the nerve to actually admit that I think I’m superior to some purely based on their awful music taste.

 

:D

 

Len :thumbsup:

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