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Not So Northern

ALIVE'N'KICKIN

By ALIVE'N'KICKIN
in All About the SOUL

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spirit Regular

spirit

Posted
Posted (edited)

Stone cold genius.

Hardly Northern, but "Touch the Hem of His Garment" by the Soul Stirrers. Utterly beautiful.

It frustrates me that of all the wonderful records he made, its bloody "Sugar Dumpling" we get.

Edited by spirit
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Guest MBarrett

Guest MBarrett

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Posted (edited)

Stone cold genius.

Hardly Northern, but "Touch the Hem of His Garment" by the Soul Stirrers. Utterly beautiful.

Those tracks he laid down with the Soul Stirrers - breathtaking!

Got to agree with your choice - just noticed that Sam wrote TTHOHG - WOW!

But think you'll agree there are many more besides.

At least 10 years ago I bought one of the Ace Soul Stirrer CD's. Not a bad track on it and it still gives me a buzz to this day.

(Thanks Tony R if you played any part)

Anyone not heard Sam Cooke's gospel offerings - here's one off You Tube and therefore my choice:

https://www.youtube.c...h?v=pfO4GYCnsEU

MB

Edited by MBarrett
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Guest MBarrett

Guest MBarrett

Posted
Posted

I never really looked to deeply into his early recordings with the soul stirrers, but I think after this thread I will definately take a deeper look!

If you like that sweet gospel sound there 2 Soul Stirrers CD's in the current ACE catalogue.

Just search Amazon on the ref. numbers 029667128025 and 029667135924

I've thought for a long time to put it in my will that I want a couple of Soul Stirrers tracks played at my funeral.

The assembled throng will be expecting something out of "Hymns - Ancient & Modern" - and out of the speakers will come Sam Cooke!

Priceless!!

MB

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posstot Long Time

posstot

Posted
Posted (edited)

That's it, i quit, i'm movin' on

for me his best soulful "dancer". Yet i am a lover of sugar dumplin' < just love the lyrics!!

Lets not forget he gave us SAR records...and there are lots of crackin' tunes on that label!!

Edited by posstot
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Guest

Guest

Posted
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rare sam cooke northern record: just for you on SAR

Sam Cooke created so many memorable recordings , but my all - time favourite is " You Send Me " ......

Malc Burton

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Sebastian Veteran

Sebastian

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The "Live At Harlem Square Club" album is a masterpiece from beginning to end in my opinion. If you'd like to hear his grittier side as a solo artist then definitely check that LP/CD out. Amazing stuff! Here's a particularly intense portion of the show:

Apart from that... I really like his version of "Rome Wasn't Built In A Day":

https://www.youtube.c...h?v=xV6eRTTsPPY

Edited by Sebastian
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jocko Veteran

jocko

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I like the one he does that sounds like "sweet soul music",got it on a lp but can't remember what its called.anyone ? angry.gif

Do you mean Shake, Kenny, that sounds similar, his live version of that is the best.

The "Live At Harlem Square Club" album is a masterpiece from beginning to end in my opinion. If you'd like to hear his grittier side as a solo artist then definitely check that LP/CD out. Amazing stuff! Here's a particularly intense portion of the show:

Apart from that... I really like his version of "Rome Wasn't Built In A Day":

https://www.youtube.c...h?v=xV6eRTTsPPY

100% spot on Sebastian, the Harlem Square LP is one of the great soul performances of all time, and when you listen to that and then his 60's stuff like YSM you realise just how much he is holding back in later times.

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Guest WPaulVanDyk

Guest WPaulVanDyk

Posted
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no contest that Sugar dumpling is my fav by him but also

Somebody Have Mercy

Bring It On Home To Me and his version of

Soothe Me

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Guest MBarrett

Guest MBarrett

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I never really looked to deeply into his early recordings with the soul stirrers, but I think after this thread I will definately take a deeper look!

I just noticed you can listen to a whole Soul Stirrers album on Spotify - https://www.spotify.com/en/

If you're not on there yet it is free to open an account.

Then just search on:

spotify:track:0dJMzFvF1FYNuelRzz6TEv

And it's not just the gospel sounds - but a few of Sam's earliest secular tracks too.

MB

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Guest CarlosFandango

Guest CarlosFandango

Posted
Posted

Impossible to pick a favourite ...... It's a lot like trying to choose your No 1 Northern track, I just can't do it & it all depends what mood your in. Have to agree with Macca 'A change is gonna come' is perfection & has to be one of the most emotionally charged soul records ever recorded IMHO.

One things for sure Sam Cooke was a musical genius and can do no wrong in my eyes ...

Thanks to ALIVE'N KICKIN for starting this thread, he's reminded me of why I love Soul ....... I'll be playing Sam's tunes for the rest of the week now !

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binsy Long Time

binsy

Posted
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Do you mean Shake, Kenny, that sounds similar, his live version of that is the best.

100% spot on Sebastian, the Harlem Square LP is one of the great soul performances of all time, and when you listen to that and then his 60's stuff like YSM you realise just how much he is holding back in later times.

Super soul from the album 'nothing can ever change my love for

you'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAr-7HqAAMc

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Guest TONY ROUNCE

Posted
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I've thought for a long time to put it in my will that I want a couple of Soul Stirrers tracks played at my funeral.

I'm having "Nearer To Thee" - the 8 minute 1954 live version from the Shrine Auditorium CD - played at mine. It's the most spine-chilling record I've ever heard, I can still recall the 'first-time' goose bumps I got when I heard Charlie Gillett play it in the early 70s. If ever a record was likely to make me become 'born again', it's this one.

I'm also very keen on "Peace In The Valley", Sam's first with the Stirrers - his vocal is absolutely frightening in its intensity - , the aforementioned "Touch The Hem Of His Garment" (which I closed a few 6Ts evenings with at West Hampstead back in the last century) and "That's Heaven To Me". In fact there's very little by Sam with the Soul Stirrers than I'm not partial to.

I'm a little more picky about his secular stuff, but I'd always go for "I'll Come Running Back To You" from pre-RCA, and probably "That's Where It's At" from his later years. Oh, but then there's "Good Times", "Bring It On Home To Me", "Farewell My Darling", "Laughing And Clowning", "Wonderful World" - where do you stop with Sam?

For me, you don't stop and that's the bottom line...

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Mal C Veteran

Mal C

Posted
Posted (edited)

Quite like "Twistin' The Night Away" - but what the hell are CHICKEN SLACKS????

Strange sense of fashion, these Americans................laugh.gif

I love that track, collect anythig by Sam.. His Lost and and Lookin from the Night Beat LP is an essential track for any soul collector... as is the LP!!! oohh andd Johnny Dollar, and Little Red Rooster..

I have every re issue of this LP since its first, sad innnit....

Mal

Edited by Mal.C.
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Guest Adam G

Guest Adam G

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9P-YsyQZnw

This one of my favourites from probably my favourite singer. I always say he could have sang the phone book and I would buy it. His manager and partner JW Alexander re did this a few years after his death with his new Sam Cooke clone a young Willie Hutch and he renamed it "lets try it over " from his RCAseasons lp. He also coverd "When a Boy falls in love" which is another great dancer on rca 45 only

Edited by Adam G
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Philippe Long Time

Philippe

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His Lost and and Lookin from the Night Beat LP is an essential track for any soul collector... as is the LP!!! oohh andd Johnny Dollar, and Little Red Rooster..

Right Mal, "Nightbeat" is a masterpiece, just like the following one "Ain't that good news".

946552.jpg

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waterfall_manc Long Time

waterfall_manc

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Posted

Love sam cooke, really soulful, what about only sixteen, just for you, ill come running back to you, also really like little red rooster. I have sugar dumpling on rca, think another Saturday night is really cheap on rca - 5 pound or so? Just love his voice, different to Jackie Wilson but up there on a par with Jackie himself!

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Stone cold genius.

Hardly Northern, but "Touch the Hem of His Garment" by the Soul Stirrers. Utterly beautiful.

It frustrates me that of all the wonderful records he made, its bloody "Sugar Dumpling" we get.

Its quite strange the way things have evolved and changed over the years or should I say decades! In the 70s, we used to scour the catalogues of known artists to try and find a 'northern' style tune and as such records like 'Sugar Dumpling' would be celebrated! Now the 'northern' style tune is dismissed and we talk about how great the non-northern tracks are - which is fair enough - I am not criticizing that, just pointing out the irony!

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Guest TONY ROUNCE

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Its quite strange the way things have evolved and changed over the years or should I say decades! In the 70s, we used to scour the catalogues of known artists to try and find a 'northern' style tune and as such records like 'Sugar Dumpling' would be celebrated! Now the 'northern' style tune is dismissed and we talk about how great the non-northern tracks are - which is fair enough - I am not criticizing that, just pointing out the irony!

You speak for yourself - I've been buying all kinds of Sam Cooke records since 1960!laugh.gif...

"Chain Gang" was, in fact, the second record I ever bought with my own pocket money...

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https://www.youtube.c...h?v=H9P-YsyQZnw

This one of my favourites from probably my favourite singer. I always say he could have sang the phone book and I would buy it. His manager and partner JW Alexander re did this a few years after his death with his new Sam Cooke clone a young Willie Hutch and he renamed it "lets try it over " from his RCAseasons lp. He also coverd "When a Boy falls in love" which is another great dancer on rca 45 only

This throws up an interesting point...

A young WILLIE HUTCH as a SAM COOKE clone? COOKE was without doubt, the original definer of the 'Soul' style male artist/vocalist and numerous others started off by impersonating a man who was in fact their own 'idol'. For me though, it is COOKE'S mainstream status that helps ensure the overall acknowledgement of his talent. I know many would dispute it, but I personally believe WILLIE HUTCH was a more talented all round artist than SAM COOKE but his failure to achieve the same level of mainstream icconism hides that. Just a sidenote but an interesting aspect which has direct relation to the difference in status between artists idolised in the 'northern' soul scene and those who enjoyed major chart success.

SAM COOKE damned well never made a double sided 45 that comes anywhere near 'Love Runs Out/The Duck' in my personal bookand we won't even get started on the songwriting element!

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Guest

Guest

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You speak for yourself - I've been buying all kinds of Sam Cooke records since 1960!laugh.gif...

"Chain Gang" was, in fact, the second record I ever bought with my own pocket money...

TONY, I'm not looking for another argument with you, but you know exactly what I am talking about and yes, I talk from the perspective of somebody whose love affair with Soul Music was in the main inspired by the 70s Northern Soul scene because thats when I was a teenager!

The first record I ever bought with my pocket money was FREDA PAYNE 'Band of Gold', I cannot help being younger than you but I am glad I am! laugh.gif

Edited by chorleysoul
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spirit Regular

spirit

Posted
Posted

Stone cold genius.

Hardly Northern, but "Touch the Hem of His Garment" by the Soul Stirrers. Utterly beautiful.

It frustrates me that of all the wonderful records he made, its bloody "Sugar Dumpling" we get.

Its quite strange the way things have evolved and changed over the years or should I say decades! In the 70s, we used to scour the catalogues of known artists to try and find a 'northern' style tune and as such records like 'Sugar Dumpling' would be celebrated! Now the 'northern' style tune is dismissed and we talk about how great the non-northern tracks are - which is fair enough - I am not criticizing that, just pointing out the irony!

Well, I'm coming at it from the perspective of a long-time Sam fan (he's been my favourite singer/songwriter since I was a teenager), but still a relative newbie to the Northern scene.

His songs generally aren't Northern records obviously - and Sugar Dumpling - which I personally find mediocre compared to some of the other secular classics he made mentioned above - seems pretty much Northern in drag to these admittedly novice ears.

But that would fit in with your recollection of lesser (or, charitably, less famous) tracks being reevaluated in Northern terms, rather than their own.

I'm not trying to be facetious ("yeah, it's s--t, but now listen - Northern s--t!") and given how popular it is at the oldies dos I attend, I don't think it is dismissed by fans in general.

Personally, I find it Sam-on-autopilot, a bit twee and forgettable, and I just don't think it does him justice to Northern fans who may be unaware of some of his other records.

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Guest TONY ROUNCE

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TONY, I'm not looking for another argument with you, but you know exactly what I am talking about and yes, I talk from the perspective of somebody whose love affair with Soul Music was in the main inspired by the 70s Northern Soul scene because thats when I was a teenager!

The first record I ever bought with my pocket money was FREDA PAYNE 'Band of Gold', I cannot help being younger than you but I am glad I am! laugh.gif

Yes, I do know what you are talking about, hence the laughing emoticon!

Incidentally, Sam ripped off "A Cousin Of Mine" from the great Bert Williams, the first black superstar of the vaudeville era (who performed in blackface, but perhaps we ought not to revive THAT argument...whistling.gif

According to Sam, Sam wrote it. Pity Bert got there about 60 years earlier.

While I'm on this sidebar, Bert Williams is, BTW, a genius. His song "Nobody" has to be the first ever 'Black Protest Song", again about 60 years before Sam wrote "A Change Is Gonna Come" (and no, I'm not knocking ther latter, before anyone leaps down my throat!!!).

The fact that he made most of his best recordings in the first few years of the last century means that he's almost unknown to most people who collect soul music (albeit not to fans of music hall and vaudeville). But I bet a lot of his records would be of historical interest to those who want to get right to the core of American Black Music....

Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about Sam, so I'm just going to pitch a few more favourites in here:

Moonlight In Vermont

Everybody Likes To Cha Cha Cha

Having A Party

Little Red Rooster (killer diller!!!!)

Let's Go Steady Again

While Lot Of Woman...

...where does the list stop? For me, it never does.

Oh, and I like Sugar Dumpling, too. Sam's in great voice, Bobby Womack's on guitar, it's a catchy song, there's nothing NOT to like about it in my book...

Edited by TONY ROUNCE
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Guest MBarrett

Guest MBarrett

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Posted (edited)

Bert Williams, the first black superstar of the vaudeville era

Tony

Thanks for that pointer - I never even heard of this guy before.

Here is some interesting stuff about him on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia....i/Bert_Williams

I was interested whether he got any mention in the U.K. press during his lifetime. I have access into the Times newspaper database so took a quick look in there.

As stated in Wikipedia he definitely did appear "over here" as I found him in a report from 1903 of the show "In Dahomey" at the Shaftesbury Theatre.

It starts out saying:

The chief interest in the production lies in the fact that very nearly all concerned in it are negroes or coloured people

I don't think too many people (me included) would have pictured such a show on the London stage in 1903.

You never know what you are going to learn next!!

Thanks again.

MB

Edited by MBarrett
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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Guest TONY ROUNCE

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Posted

Tony

Thanks for that pointer - I never even heard of this guy before.

Here is some interesting stuff about him on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia....i/Bert_Williams

I was interested whether he got any mention in the U.K. press during his lifetime. I have access into the Times newspaper database so took a quick look in there.

As stated in Wikipedia he definitely did appear "over here" as I found him in a report from 1903 of the show "In Dahomey" at the Shaftesbury Theatre.

It starts out saying:

I don't think too many people (me included) would have pictured such a show on the London stage in 1903.

You never know what you are going to learn next!!

Thanks again.

MB

There are several CD's available of Bert's best tracks. Obviously the audio isn't that great, given that a lot of the recordings are transferred from cylinders and very early 78s, but you still get enough of his magic shining through.

Randy Crawford, of all people, cut a lovely version of "Nobody" on one of her 1980s albums.

Glad to help as always!

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