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Have We Gone Full Circle In Northernsoul?


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Have we gone full circle in Northernsoul?

Are we failing as a music scene?

Have we gone full circle in Northernsoul? Just been reading the posts about why we need DJ's, the great bun fight at Manifesto's Soul Night and Keb Darge - Scotland's Finest Export since Whiskey.

It seams to me that we have different groups who seam unable, unwilling or even uneasy to hear new and unfamiliar tunes and one of these groups seam to be on the up and up, are these all the people who left the Northernsoul scene when it was pronounced dead after the Casino closed?

I feel like I am about to paint my self into a corner but it is my personal opinion that we have a large group, who are now the majority, who stopped listening to Northernsoul after the casino and they have missed the third wave and a change in music when the likes of Richard Serling, Guy, Keb and Ady plugged away when all but the very faithful remained.

Now I do not intend to take any high ground because I was there, I was at that age, too young for the Casino I was amongst the group who where, as it turns out, to be privileged to hear and absorb the newer sounds. I believe that the legacy of this gives a more open minded approach to Northernsoul and that is why the likes of Middleton and now Maxim's separates some groups like oil and water, this is the only tragedy of Northernsoul.

Robbo once said to me that at the age of ten you have heard every sound you will ever hear and only the frequency will be different, but we were both off our tits at the time so this may well be bollox?

I can honestly say that a stop you in your tracks record is rarer than hens teeth, you more than likely need to hear some thing a few times before it sits well in your mental duke box and I think this is why a certain group don't or wont listen and dance to new stuff, to say its all shit is just a cop out, most of the Northernsoul records sound shite when played cold, try it on a none soulie.

If we are not carful we are going to become a pack of cats and dogs with those clinging to the likes of frank Wilson (nothing wrong with the track but the example stands) and the others who can and do want progressive new sounds.

I saw this kind of thing happen in the early eighties on the scooter scene when the Southerners and the Northerners met to find their particular takes on Mod where as different as chalk n cheese.

I also think that we have our fair share of shady promoters who just want to cram their venues with Soulies wearing baggy pants, no disrespect to baggy pants mind but you get my drift. (I do wear them from time to time)

I also think some of you DJ's need to remember us dancers more and at least bring the tempo mid way when the floor needs it, I will dance to anything new, I have danced to some howlers but I have also danced to music that sounded as if it had come from heaven. Dj's stop blaming the audience and the audience stop blaming the DJ's, just dance and enjoy it1

Lets get back to our Northernsoul roots and stop holding on so desperately to the past, you can listen to the snake on the way home.

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Posted

Brill post Imber agree with most of your comments well put.Similar to yourself i was just 16 when the Casino closed and i only made it once in its death throws during 1981.But as you say the late casino Searling playlists jumped into the post casino venues Stafford, Clifton Hall,Morcambe,Warrington,etc etc.I went to a few Staffords,and lots of Clifton Halls.Now when you go to a soul night its as if most of these venues never existed and we are constantly driven back to the old casino and torch sounds.I think you are correct most of this is caused by the returnees who never heard any of the 80s venue stuff so they grasp onto the youth club stuff we could sing in our sleep we have heard them so often.Don't get me wrong i treasure some of the Wigan oldies they are amoungst my fave alltime sounds and are the reason i got into the scene in the first place.But hundreds of fantastic Northern Soul records are just not getting revived because they are not known by 50% of todays punters who refuse to dance to something they don't know off by heart.

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Posted (edited)

phyliss hyman, you know how to love me, huge at rotherham, stafford etc where would this record fall with the baggy pants brigade on my last played

Edited by spudmurphy
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Nice post Simon and lots of good points made. I've never been able to understand the huge numbers of people who have an obvious and strong dislike for anything they have not heard a hundred times before, how a good but lesser known track will clear a packed floor quicker than a fire alarm yet will fill again instantly when a 'Frank Wilson' type goes on the deck?? Did Wigan play the same 200 records every night.........

I scanned through that Manifesto thread and the playlists of the two DJs who apparently played rare rubbish for two hours to an empty dance floor......and almost laughed out loud! Playlists were made up in the main of good northern most of which have been big spins and in-demand records over the last 5 years or so. If records like these get the reaction they apparently did then there really is no hope.

I think there is no real doubt that in the UK the scene is in decline with dwindling numbers attending venues. I would hope that the venues offering a more upfront music policy will be the ones to survive but sadly I think many will not. You can attend a progressive soul night which will generally be held in a smallish venue with a smallish crowd in, then the next weekend attend an oldies night packed to the rafters with 200-300+ people there. I expect a few of the major progressive venues like Lifeline will become the last bastion of progressive soul music and the gathering point for the shrinking number of people who go out for the buzz of hearing sounds they can't listen to at home, lack of numbers will kill off most progressive soul nights.

The oldie only type venues will probably carry on with healthy numbers for the next 5-10 years when they will hit the unmoveable truth of ageing attendees. With age taking a constant toll on people going out and no younger blood coming through as replacements these nights will start to close as well. I really hate to say it but the entire scene is already on it's death bed, you only have to look at the average age of soulies at venues to know that is the truth.

Adam.

Edited by soul45er
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Nice post Simon and lots of good points made. I've never been able to understand the huge numbers of people who have an obvious and strong dislike for anything they have not heard a hundred times before, how a good but lesser known track will clear a packed floor quicker than a fire alarm yet will fill again instantly when a 'Frank Wilson' type goes on the deck?? Did Wigan play the same 200 records every night.........

I scanned through that Manifesto thread and the playlists of the two DJs who apparently played rare rubbish for two hours to an empty dance floor......and almost laughed out loud! Playlists were made up in the main of good northern most of which have been big spins and in-demand records over the last 5 years or so. If records like these get the reaction they apparently did then there really is no hope.

I think there is no real doubt that in the UK the scene is in decline with dwindling numbers attending venues. I would hope that the venues offering a more upfront music policy will be the ones to survive but sadly I think many will not. You can attend a progressive soul night which will generally be held in a smallish venue with a smallish crowd in, then the next weekend attend an oldies night packed to the rafters with 200-300+ people there. I expect a few of the major progressive venues like Lifeline will become the last bastion of progressive soul music and the gathering point for the shrinking number of people who go out for the buzz of hearing sounds they can't listen to at home, lack of numbers will kill off most progressive soul nights.

The oldie only type venues will probably carry on with healthy numbers for the next 5-10 years when they will hit the unmoveable truth of ageing attendees. With age taking a constant toll on people going out and no younger blood coming through as replacements these nights will start to close as well. I really hate to say it but the entire scene is already on it's death bed, you only have to look at the average age of soulies at venues to know that is the truth.

Adam.

Kind of depressing read this...God, should we not be glad to be alive and going to any type of Soul do in 2010?? lolthumbup.gif

Seriously, some good points. Going to absorb and respond tomorrow after I have sobered up!thumbsup.gif

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Why on earth is it depressing chorleysoul? Bidds Nighter is on the 17th of October and Maxims Nighter is on 21st of November so its not all doom and gloom :-)

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agree with you simon. theres lots of people who have come back into it in a big way since 2k arrived also most of em havent progressed at all. still want to listen to the same old sounds, good as most of them are. i think for some it was just something to do in their youth and now they are getting older they just want to relive their youth.

dave

HORTISOUL CLUB DARNALL SHEFFIELD 16TH OCT

SUNDAY CHILL OUT HORSE & GROOM 18TH OCT

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agree with you simon. theres lots of people who have come back into it in a big way since 2k arrived also most of em havent progressed at all. still want to listen to the same old sounds, good as most of them are. i think for some it was just something to do in their youth and now they are getting older they just want to relive their youth.

dave

I agree.

Going out and listening to the same old tunes week in week out is no different than going to the pictures and watching the same film over and over and over again.

Hot bath and sharp knife springs to mind :thumbup:

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Posted (edited)

Why on earth is it depressing chorleysoul? Bidds Nighter is on the 17th of October and Maxims Nighter is on 21st of November so its not all doom and gloom :-)

you forgot to mention the best upfront all-nighter (not just my opinion either :thumbup::lol:)Simon, Lifeline October 31st. The only other nighter with a likeminded ploicy that makes me want to go without driving for over 3 hoursis the Wilton (oh and Bidds when I can).

I agree with many ofyour points, the scene has been a failing scene musically by and largefor years. It gets more and more retro every year. Many people spouton about how they want something different but you never see them whensomething is promoted for them, even local to them!

Edited by chalky
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I have been a Nothern Soul fan since the mid 70's till now, without a gap, no wandering away for couple of years and coming back.

I have heard this topic mentioned since the mid seventies till now!

People who are hardcore nighter goers, that go every week and its a way of life, are soon tired of certain tunes because they hear them a lot.

Others who do not go often to venues, want to be entertained when they go out, and don't have time to learn many new sounds.

Whats a newie?, whats an oldie? its all a matter of perspective, If you don't know it its a newie, if you do its an oldie!

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The soulie's that want to listen to something different are attending smaller venues,which are generally badly attended.The way forward may be to do what some oldie's nights are doing at the moment,which is to have a smaller room playing underplayed/rare/x over etc within the same venue such as Bentinck,Riley Smith Hall etc.

Edited by 22ndsoul
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The soulie's that want to listen to something different are attending smaller venues,which are generally badly attended.The way forward may be to do what some oldie's nights are doing at the moment,which is to have a smaller room playing underplayed/rare/x over etc within the same venue such as Bentinck,Riley Smith Hall etc.

Lifeline isn't a smaller venue :thumbup:

The way forward is for promoters to program dj's who can play a well balanced set, that flows that also includes a certain percentage of underplyed, semi/unknown tracks, there are plenty that are good enough and are cracking dancers but are disregarded in the name of safety first attitude. A Dj who seems to get on these days is one who waves a blank cheque at records, not one who uses his or her imagination.

And I see so many plugs for venues that claim to be underplayed etc but often fail to deliver when I've either been or seen playlists.

Edited by chalky
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A slightly different perspective here. Ironically, I was introduced to, and brought up on, the Scottish scene from the early eighties onward, Crown/ Thornton, Shotts/Allanton etc. Too young to taste any of the clubs in the 70s. I entered the scene when, as is always quoted, it was at its quietest. Maybe so, but for me the philosophy of all things Stafford and beyond just blew my mind, as did the Scottish scene where people were very open minded, cheapies alongside rarities but always on the search for something new. And there was always room for 'alternative' oldies, or rather underplayed stuff not given a proper spin in previous years for reasons of tempo etc.

Zip forward 20 years or so. I left the scene for a number of years, partly due to career and relocation to Yorkshire. I came back to it about 10 years ago. In that time, I have observed at least in my neighbourhood an ocean of 'older' (well relative to me!) folks who did indeed 'skip' the 80s, but are now appreciating the stuff they missed out on, and this is reflected in playlists, chat and market prices for the relevent vinyl. We've have now come to a stage where people are from loads of different backgrounds and eras, everthing taste-wise is all very complex (not as simple as the oldies versus newies / 60s versus modern arguments of yesteryear). I still like to think that we can accomodate a TINY bit of nostalgia (within limits) but still the primary driver should be for things new and interesting.

Luckily in my area we have a gem of a find in Morley Carr (Bradford), run by Paul Harris, a promoter who deliberately goes out of his way to develop an approach to keep things fresh. No big names, egos, or mouldie oldies, and a policy to showcase collectors and soulfans with no politics, from different backgrounds and ages but all wanting to push the scene forward. This club reflects what I loved about the Scottish scene. Current rarities, but also cheap lesser played and semi/unknown stuff and sometimes things a bit leftfield (but in a good way) for a rather alternative evening. Just check the playlists, comments and the number of hits on the events guide and I hope you get a flavour for what my idea of progression is. And not even a niter.

Edited by mark w.
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Nice post Simon and lots of good points made. I've never been able to understand the huge numbers of people who have an obvious and strong dislike for anything they have not heard a hundred times before, how a good but lesser known track will clear a packed floor quicker than a fire alarm yet will fill again instantly when a 'Frank Wilson' type goes on the deck?? Did Wigan play the same 200 records every night.........

I scanned through that Manifesto thread and the playlists of the two DJs who apparently played rare rubbish for two hours to an empty dance floor......and almost laughed out loud! Playlists were made up in the main of good northern most of which have been big spins and in-demand records over the last 5 years or so. If records like these get the reaction they apparently did then there really is no hope.

I think there is no real doubt that in the UK the scene is in decline with dwindling numbers attending venues. I would hope that the venues offering a more upfront music policy will be the ones to survive but sadly I think many will not. You can attend a progressive soul night which will generally be held in a smallish venue with a smallish crowd in, then the next weekend attend an oldies night packed to the rafters with 200-300+ people there. I expect a few of the major progressive venues like Lifeline will become the last bastion of progressive soul music and the gathering point for the shrinking number of people who go out for the buzz of hearing sounds they can't listen to at home, lack of numbers will kill off most progressive soul nights.

The oldie only type venues will probably carry on with healthy numbers for the next 5-10 years when they will hit the unmoveable truth of ageing attendees. With age taking a constant toll on people going out and no younger blood coming through as replacements these nights will start to close as well. I really hate to say it but the entire scene is already on it's death bed, you only have to look at the average age of soulies at venues to know that is the truth.

Adam.

Some good points there Adam, albeit a bit of a depressing conclusion. I think the problem I have with your conclusion is that it is from a UK only standpoint. Wigan Casino probably means fu@k all to anyone who didn't go, particularly people from other countries than the UK. The scene has now moved from being a UK only 'club' to being appreciated (no less fanatically) in lots of other places around the world. Black American (for the most part Black) is loved and danced to by many different people all around the world. This to me is the biggest factor that makes me feel positive about things, because as anyone can see, the playlists that get shown on the internet from DJ's that aren't from the UK are often the most interesting. Underplayed, quality 60's, new discoveries, 70's stuff to die for (not the 'giffer' 70's plodders that usually get played over here in the UK). I always feel a bit depressed when I read many UK (and funnily enough Australian) playlists, it's as if nothing has changed or grown up for the last 30 years, it's as if for the last 30 years certain DJ's have only been interested in collecting all the expensive tunes they wish they could have afforded back in the 70's. I don't think I've read a single playlist in all the Manifesto magazines (not the Manifesto nights mentioned in Adam's post) that would make me want to go over to an Australian soul event as they seem totally based on a time period 20 - 30 yrs ago in the UK. Apologies here to the people in Australia who are into stuff other than the tried and tested UK Northern, and I know that there are a few who are as keen as ever to dig out the fresh stuff.

I think in the end, the worldwide appreciation of soul music and the head start we in the UK have in having imported a large percentage of the good stuff (although by no means all, particularly the 70's stuff) will ensure that true to the UK spirit, we will rise up and reclaim the scene in the way it originally was, by appreciating killer tunes by either dancing to them or talking about them and creating a demand for them, long after the last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the Carstairs ruined the Northern scene.

Jordi

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Some good points there Adam, albeit a bit of a depressing conclusion. I think the problem I have with your conclusion is that it is from a UK only standpoint. Wigan Casino probably means fu@k all to anyone who didn't go, particularly people from other countries than the UK. The scene has now moved from being a UK only 'club' to being appreciated (no less fanatically) in lots of other places around the world. Black American (for the most part Black) is loved and danced to by many different people all around the world. This to me is the biggest factor that makes me feel positive about things, because as anyone can see, the playlists that get shown on the internet from DJ's that aren't from the UK are often the most interesting. Underplayed, quality 60's, new discoveries, 70's stuff to die for (not the 'giffer' 70's plodders that usually get played over here in the UK). I always feel a bit depressed when I read many UK (and funnily enough Australian) playlists, it's as if nothing has changed or grown up for the last 30 years, it's as if for the last 30 years certain DJ's have only been interested in collecting all the expensive tunes they wish they could have afforded back in the 70's. I don't think I've read a single playlist in all the Manifesto magazines (not the Manifesto nights mentioned in Adam's post) that would make me want to go over to an Australian soul event as they seem totally based on a time period 20 - 30 yrs ago in the UK. Apologies here to the people in Australia who are into stuff other than the tried and tested UK Northern, and I know that there are a few who are as keen as ever to dig out the fresh stuff.

I think in the end, the worldwide appreciation of soul music and the head start we in the UK have in having imported a large percentage of the good stuff (although by no means all, particularly the 70's stuff) will ensure that true to the UK spirit, we will rise up and reclaim the scene in the way it originally was, by appreciating killer tunes by either dancing to them or talking about them and creating a demand for them, long after the last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the Carstairs ruined the Northern scene.

Jordi

Hi Jordi,

I agree with a lot of your points about soul music being worldwide, which is why in my first post I said the 'that in the UK the scene is in decline'. I think the history of the scene here is actually what holds it back. Can't really comment about Europe and further afield as I've yet to try any nights outside of the UK. Though from what I've been told and read there does seem to be hope that there is a future for the music and the 'NS scene'.

Adam.

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Why on earth is it depressing chorleysoul? Bidds Nighter is on the 17th of October and Maxims Nighter is on 21st of November so its not all doom and gloom :-)

The paragraph below, I felt was a little depressing:thumbup.gif

The oldie only type venues will probably carry on with healthy numbers for the next 5-10 years when they will hit the unmoveable truth of ageing attendees. With age taking a constant toll on people going out and no younger blood coming through as replacements these nights will start to close as well. I really hate to say it but the entire scene is already on it's death bed, you only have to look at the average age of soulies at venues to know that is the truth.

Adam.

Somebody else has just said that this exact debate has been going on since the 70s and he hit the nail on the head. I just think that sometimes we are a little bit too precious/serious about all this. I think that if - as ADAM has pointed out - age is a serious factor, (And he is right of course!!) we'd maybe be better off just celebrating and enjoying what is left of the British Northern Soul Scene, whilst we are lucky enough to enjoy it. Let's be absolutely realistic, there is simply nothing we can do about the march of time and we all know that. Whatever efforts are/were made, there is simply not enough young blood on the scene to stretch it any further than the timescales mentioned and that is why I think we should be celebrating the scene for all it's glories rather than picking it apart morbidly whilst thousands of people still have regularly used dancing shoes. At the end of the day, people who want an oldies night will go for that and those who want to hear new sounds will search out those venues, until they can't manage it anymore that is! The simple fact that people in their 50s are out dancing to Soul Music is a great thing in itself, be it current 'biggies' or the oldies that reminds them of younger days.

And yes, one day the Northern Soul Scene will be finished completely. Time will pass us all by.biggrin.gif

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Jordi mate with respect you observations of the Australian Soul Scene are totally wrong . I live and help put on nights In Queensland and suggest you check the web site

http://qldsoul.8k.com/photo_8.html

to see the influx of younger soulies the scene is really booming here !

We have evolved here and continually expect something new or underplayed but also respect the ''hard core'' who want the tried and tested .

Last we had a soul night at BILLYS BEACH HOUSE SURFERS PARADISE

which is one of the best venues in the world with the view of the surf in the background and you would likely here have a mix of oldies , raries , motown , R/b and new releases for instance

KINGS GO FORTH DON'T TAKE MY SHADOW

KAREN BROOKS TO NICE TO FORGET

COOKIN ON 3 BURNERS THIS GIRL

EMOTIONS STEALIN LOVE

PILORSKI RE WORK BEGGIN

BEV HARRELL YOU BABY

CHANTS BABY I NEED YOUR LOVE

MONTEREYS IT HURTS ME SO ( THIS WAS PLAYED IN SEVERAL STATES HERE AND JOHN MANSHIP TOOK MY COPY AS HE DID NOT KNOW IT ! AND SOLD IT FOR A FEW QUID ON IS AUCTION EARLIER THIS YR )

Any one planning a trip down under we put the ''RED CARPET '' treatment out for one and all as we appreciate you coming out and any one coming to the ''THE NASH''

With UK Dj DUNCAN MCCALISTER ( Newcastle) guesting will be in for a treat, Duncs not known for playing the same old same ha.

CHECK WEB SITE

http://www.goldcoast...tional2009.com/

Gold Coast - Soul City 2009

12th Australian National Northern Soul Weekender

'That Same Old Feeling'

November 6th/7th/8th 2009

Some good points there Adam, albeit a bit of a depressing conclusion. I think the problem I have with your conclusion is that it is from a UK only standpoint. Wigan Casino probably means fu@k all to anyone who didn't go, particularly people from other countries than the UK. The scene has now moved from being a UK only 'club' to being appreciated (no less fanatically) in lots of other places around the world. Black American (for the most part Black) is loved and danced to by many different people all around the world. This to me is the biggest factor that makes me feel positive about things, because as anyone can see, the playlists that get shown on the internet from DJ's that aren't from the UK are often the most interesting. Underplayed, quality 60's, new discoveries, 70's stuff to die for (not the 'giffer' 70's plodders that usually get played over here in the UK). I always feel a bit depressed when I read many UK (and funnily enough Australian) playlists, it's as if nothing has changed or grown up for the last 30 years, it's as if for the last 30 years certain DJ's have only been interested in collecting all the expensive tunes they wish they could have afforded back in the 70's. I don't think I've read a single playlist in all the Manifesto magazines (not the Manifesto nights mentioned in Adam's post) that would make me want to go over to an Australian soul event as they seem totally based on a time period 20 - 30 yrs ago in the UK. Apologies here to the people in Australia who are into stuff other than the tried and tested UK Northern, and I know that there are a few who are as keen as ever to dig out the fresh stuff.

I think in the end, the worldwide appreciation of soul music and the head start we in the UK have in having imported a large percentage of the good stuff (although by no means all, particularly the 70's stuff) will ensure that true to the UK spirit, we will rise up and reclaim the scene in the way it originally was, by appreciating killer tunes by either dancing to them or talking about them and creating a demand for them, long after the last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the Carstairs ruined the Northern scene.

Jordi

Some good points there Adam, albeit a bit of a depressing conclusion. I think the problem I have with your conclusion is that it is from a UK only standpoint. Wigan Casino probably means fu@k all to anyone who didn't go, particularly people from other countries than the UK. The scene has now moved from being a UK only 'club' to being appreciated (no less fanatically) in lots of other places around the world. Black American (for the most part Black) is loved and danced to by many different people all around the world. This to me is the biggest factor that makes me feel positive about things, because as anyone can see, the playlists that get shown on the internet from DJ's that aren't from the UK are often the most interesting. Underplayed, quality 60's, new discoveries, 70's stuff to die for (not the 'giffer' 70's plodders that usually get played over here in the UK). I always feel a bit depressed when I read many UK (and funnily enough Australian) playlists, it's as if nothing has changed or grown up for the last 30 years, it's as if for the last 30 years certain DJ's have only been interested in collecting all the expensive tunes they wish they could have afforded back in the 70's. I don't think I've read a single playlist in all the Manifesto magazines (not the Manifesto nights mentioned in Adam's post) that would make me want to go over to an Australian soul event as they seem totally based on a time period 20 - 30 yrs ago in the UK. Apologies here to the people in Australia who are into stuff other than the tried and tested UK Northern, and I know that there are a few who are as keen as ever to dig out the fresh stuff.

I think in the end, the worldwide appreciation of soul music and the head start we in the UK have in having imported a large percentage of the good stuff (although by no means all, particularly the 70's stuff) will ensure that true to the UK spirit, we will rise up and reclaim the scene in the way it originally was, by appreciating killer tunes by either dancing to them or talking about them and creating a demand for them, long after the last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the Carstairs ruined the Northern scene.

Jordi

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The whole "Newies V Oldies" thing, totally baffles me, and I'm now past caring. From a personal point of view, I struggle with the idea of someone playing a set of records that I was listening to 25 Years ago, being labelled a "Newies" or "Upfront" D.J. - It don't stack up?

Des Parker

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I for one just love, soul dance music, not just N/soul.R&B TO PRESENTthumbsup.gif

There is to many pigeon holes.

And I think the numbers are dropping because people are being careful with their money,how many folks can say their jobs are safe now adays.

Kevinnocent.gif

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The way forward is for promoters to program dj's who can play a well balanced set, that flows that also includes a certain percentage of underplyed, semi/unknown tracks, there are plenty that are good enough and are cracking dancers but are disregarded in the name of safety first attitude. A Dj who seems to get on these days is one who waves a blank cheque at records, not one who uses his or her imagination.

BANG on there Chalky!

Too many DJ's getting spots cos they've bought there way in, or kissed enough @rse of the promoters to get a spot. Not necessarily good DJ's (as in imaginative, ability to read the floor, change their sets appropriately, forward thinking etc).

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I for one just love, soul dance music, not just N/soul.R&B TO PRESENTthumbsup.gif

There is to many pigeon holes.

Kevinnocent.gif

Nail, head hit Kev.

Good music's good music regardless of year, rarity, value etc.

Sooner everybody realises that the better before the Soul scene (note not just Northern) disappears up it's own arse.

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thumbsup.gifIn my humble opinion, there isn't a 'scene' but a number of complimentary and sometimes overlapping 'scenes'.

I'm not really sure what we seem to be worrying about...

There are always surges and dips in interest for all manner of reasons (personal, financial, family etc) but ultimately the music speaks for itself and will keep people coming back for more time and time again.

But this need to hang on to the past is academic as things always sort themselves out anyway whether we personally agree or not.

For me, it's all about the enjoyment of this fantastic gift of music we've been given; old, new and yet to be dicovered. To be honest I'm too busy searching out new sounds to my ears and enjoying the ones I've loved for years to worry too much about a term so hard to tie down as 'scene'.

Look at it like this, Mozart's done alright over the years and so will our musical heroes thumbsup.gif

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Jordi mate with respect you observations of the Australian Soul Scene are totally wrong . I live and help put on nights In Queensland and suggest you check the web site

http://qldsoul.8k.com/photo_8.html

to see the influx of younger soulies the scene is really booming here !

We have evolved here and continually expect something new or underplayed but also respect the ''hard core'' who want the tried and tested .

Last we had a soul night at BILLYS BEACH HOUSE SURFERS PARADISE

which is one of the best venues in the world with the view of the surf in the background and you would likely here have a mix of oldies , raries , motown , R/b and new releases for instance

KINGS GO FORTH DON'T TAKE MY SHADOW

KAREN BROOKS TO NICE TO FORGET

COOKIN ON 3 BURNERS THIS GIRL

EMOTIONS STEALIN LOVE

PILORSKI RE WORK BEGGIN

BEV HARRELL YOU BABY

CHANTS BABY I NEED YOUR LOVE

MONTEREYS IT HURTS ME SO ( THIS WAS PLAYED IN SEVERAL STATES HERE AND JOHN MANSHIP TOOK MY COPY AS HE DID NOT KNOW IT ! AND SOLD IT FOR A FEW QUID ON IS AUCTION EARLIER THIS YR )

Any one planning a trip down under we put the ''RED CARPET '' treatment out for one and all as we appreciate you coming out and any one coming to the ''THE NASH''

With UK Dj DUNCAN MCCALISTER ( Newcastle) guesting will be in for a treat, Duncs not known for playing the same old same ha.

CHECK WEB SITE

http://www.goldcoast...tional2009.com/

Yes sorry about that Rushden, it's never a good idea to post after a few Stellas and red wine, I didn't mean any offence. As I said though, I know there are people doing stuff down under that are not sticking to the UK 1970's playlists it's just that all I ever seem to see in the UK magazine Manifesto regarding the Aussie scene, does seem to reflect the old UK playlists. It's good to hear that you are getting lots of younger people into it though and that will help keep the scene alive. I don't know what Billy's Beach House is like, but it probably isn't an old working mens club which over here is your classic venue, or the big cavernous hall, and that to me is part of the problem for getting younger folk into the scene.

Jordi

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Nail, head hit Kev.

Good music's good music regardless of year, rarity, value etc.

Sooner everybody realises that the better before the Soul scene (note not just Northern) disappears up it's own arse.

I think it disappeared up there long ago personally, too much conflict, too much opinion, too much retro, nostalgia bollocks which rules the roost on today's scene, in certain areas it's turned into nothing more than a middle age fancy dress party, baggie pants, stupid hats, circular skirts and all the other naff nonsense has turned the scene into what we were all so worried that it could become, the music has almost become a watered down backing track to this retro scene that masquerades it's self as a rare soul scene in some areas and it sucks it really does, it's very sad but not a suprise, I'll take the tuneage over and above all else, I certainly don't feel the need to join this fancy dress party which basically has nothing to do with the Northern scene I grew up with which was to enjoy, collect, play and celebrate quality hard to find, authentic obscure Black American music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Edited by Mark Bicknell
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I think it disappeared up there long ago personally, too much conflict, too much opinion, too much retro, nostalgia bollocks which rules the roost on today's scene, in certain areas it's turned into nothing more than a middle age fancy dress party, baggie pants, stupid hats, circular skirts and all the other naff nonsense has turned the scene into what we were all so worried that it could become, the music has almost become a watered down backing track to this retro scene that masquerades it's self as a rare soul scene in some areas and it sucks it really does, it's very sad but not a suprise, I'll take the tuneage over and above all else, I certainly don't feel the need to join this fancy dress party which basically has nothing to do with the Northern scene I grew up with which was to enjoy, collect, play and celebrate quality hard to find, authentic obscure Black American music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

I gotta agree with all you say about the fancy dress Mark. Was at a do other day and on the dancefloor there was some ridiculous looking outfits, seems that is the criteria to get into the top three of a dance comp as well cause certainly couldn't dance. Those doing the floor tricks don't even do it in time to the music, just throw themselves about with little grace and style.

Does little IMO to encourage youngsters onto the scene.

Edited by chalky
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I gotta agree with all you say about the fancy dress Mark. Was at a do other day and on the dancefloor there was some ridiculous looking outfits, seems that is the criteria to get into the top three of a dance comp as well cause certainly couldn't dance. Those doing the floor tricks don't even do it in time to the music, just throw themselves about with little grace and style.

Does little IMO to encourage youngsters onto the scene.

What a shambles Chalky... Its a shame you could not get a place in the top 3 mate without the fancy dress..

Better look at the next dance comp Chalky... shades.gif

This topic just goes round and round.. :D

Edited by little-stevie
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I think it disappeared up there long ago personally, too much conflict, too much opinion, too much retro, nostalgia bollocks which rules the roost on today's scene, in certain areas it's turned into nothing more than a middle age fancy dress party, baggie pants, stupid hats, circular skirts and all the other naff nonsense has turned the scene into what we were all so worried that it could become, the music has almost become a watered down backing track to this retro scene that masquerades it's self as a rare soul scene in some areas and it sucks it really does, it's very sad but not a suprise, I'll take the tuneage over and above all else, I certainly don't feel the need to join this fancy dress party which basically has nothing to do with the Northern scene I grew up with which was to enjoy, collect, play and celebrate quality hard to find, authentic obscure Black American music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

i went to denton labour club about 6 months ago thought id gone to a northern soul theme park, and I go to the wheel but ive never seen a pork pie hat there. what we clearly have is a scene that spans nearly 50 yrs what does it for you obviously wont do it for everyone but I personally like anything danceworthy and that does it for me be it 60s or 70s I think your all thinking to hard if you play dance music the kids will come if they wont to if they dont hardies as we say in stockport

Edited by spudmurphy
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Some good points there Adam, albeit a bit of a depressing conclusion. I think the problem I have with your conclusion is that it is from a UK only standpoint. Wigan Casino probably means fu@k all to anyone who didn't go, particularly people from other countries than the UK. The scene has now moved from being a UK only 'club' to being appreciated (no less fanatically) in lots of other places around the world. Black American (for the most part Black) is loved and danced to by many different people all around the world. This to me is the biggest factor that makes me feel positive about things, because as anyone can see, the playlists that get shown on the internet from DJ's that aren't from the UK are often the most interesting. Underplayed, quality 60's, new discoveries, 70's stuff to die for (not the 'giffer' 70's plodders that usually get played over here in the UK). I always feel a bit depressed when I read many UK (and funnily enough Australian) playlists, it's as if nothing has changed or grown up for the last 30 years, it's as if for the last 30 years certain DJ's have only been interested in collecting all the expensive tunes they wish they could have afforded back in the 70's. I don't think I've read a single playlist in all the Manifesto magazines (not the Manifesto nights mentioned in Adam's post) that would make me want to go over to an Australian soul event as they seem totally based on a time period 20 - 30 yrs ago in the UK. Apologies here to the people in Australia who are into stuff other than the tried and tested UK Northern, and I know that there are a few who are as keen as ever to dig out the fresh stuff.

I think in the end, the worldwide appreciation of soul music and the head start we in the UK have in having imported a large percentage of the good stuff (although by no means all, particularly the 70's stuff) will ensure that true to the UK spirit, we will rise up and reclaim the scene in the way it originally was, by appreciating killer tunes by either dancing to them or talking about them and creating a demand for them, long after the last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the Carstairs ruined the Northern scene.

Jordi

Well Jordi at least you apologised (which I accept) so I'll not let rip with both barrels, but you clearly don't appreciate the dynamic in Australia:no: . We have a constant flow of UK immigrants, some fresh from the UK scene, others having had a break for many years. Consequently we get requests ranging from Dobie Gray to Rose Battiste to Gene Toones to Mac Staten and I for one refuse to blacklist tunes because they're considered cheesy by others. Even the Dobie Gray type material is too Northern for some, so we also have Motown nights running in parallel. In other words we try to cater for all tastes.

My own club in Perth has been running for 13 years so something must be going right - and the DJs are asked to incorporate at least 4 "new" tracks in their sets to keep things fresh. Brisbane, Adleaide, Sydney, Gold Coast & Melbourne have also had their own scenes for many years and the annual weekender is 12 years old too. If any of the multitudes of UK or European visitors have gone home having had a bad experience, I've never heard about it.

Anyway, like somebody has already pointed out - what the f-ck does it matter? Its all good isn't it:thumbup: ?

Cheers

Pete

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Agree with all that Mark Bicknell has said.I treasure The Northern Soul oldies and love dancing to them but i hate the fact that they are being represented by a crowd that are basically a re-inactment society of Wigan Casino cica 1974.Also hundreds of the casino tracks are just not played anymore and the entire 80s Northern scene dicoveries are just ignored.I don't know the answer, these days my circumstances and work/family don't allow me to attend nighters regularly where i suspect the real scene still exists.I mainly attend Soul Nights and its getting harder and harder to hear and dance to something you ain't heard and danced to a million times

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Lets get back to our Northernsoul roots and stop holding on so desperately to the past, you can listen to the snake on the way home.

Funny that. I was DeeJaying last night, at what can only be described as an extremely progressive venue, and some Wise Guy came and asked me, most insistently, for the Snake!

When I told him I hadn't got it with me, he offered to lend me his own copy :thumbup:

Bet you'd have had fun with him, Simon.

:lol:

Sean

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This topic just goes round and round.. :lol:

then read something else Stevie if it bores you, no one makes you read it :thumbup:

Edited by chalky
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Some good points there Adam, albeit a bit of a depressing conclusion. I think the problem I have with your conclusion is that it is from a UK only standpoint. Wigan Casino probably means fu@k all to anyone who didn't go, particularly people from other countries than the UK. The scene has now moved from being a UK only 'club' to being appreciated (no less fanatically) in lots of other places around the world. Black American (for the most part Black) is loved and danced to by many different people all around the world. This to me is the biggest factor that makes me feel positive about things, because as anyone can see, the playlists that get shown on the internet from DJ's that aren't from the UK are often the most interesting. Underplayed, quality 60's, new discoveries, 70's stuff to die for (not the 'giffer' 70's plodders that usually get played over here in the UK). I always feel a bit depressed when I read many UK (and funnily enough Australian) playlists, it's as if nothing has changed or grown up for the last 30 years, it's as if for the last 30 years certain DJ's have only been interested in collecting all the expensive tunes they wish they could have afforded back in the 70's. I don't think I've read a single playlist in all the Manifesto magazines (not the Manifesto nights mentioned in Adam's post) that would make me want to go over to an Australian soul event as they seem totally based on a time period 20 - 30 yrs ago in the UK. Apologies here to the people in Australia who are into stuff other than the tried and tested UK Northern, and I know that there are a few who are as keen as ever to dig out the fresh stuff.

I think in the end, the worldwide appreciation of soul music and the head start we in the UK have in having imported a large percentage of the good stuff (although by no means all, particularly the 70's stuff) will ensure that true to the UK spirit, we will rise up and reclaim the scene in the way it originally was, by appreciating killer tunes by either dancing to them or talking about them and creating a demand for them, long after the last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the Carstairs ruined the Northern scene.

Jordi

The last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the carstairs ruined the northern scene, (who said that?) it was a turning point for me after i finished my apprenticeship, at the casino, people just havnt got any taste lol. Billy

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Agree with all that Mark Bicknell has said.I treasure The Northern Soul oldies and love dancing to them but i hate the fact that they are being represented by a crowd that are basically a re-inactment society of Wigan Casino cica 1974.Also hundreds of the casino tracks are just not played anymore and the entire 80s Northern scene dicoveries are just ignored.I don't know the answer, these days my circumstances and work/family don't allow me to attend nighters regularly where i suspect the real scene still exists.I mainly attend Soul Nights and its getting harder and harder to hear and dance to something you ain't heard and danced to a million times

Couldnt have put it better myself Patto....

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I think it disappeared up there long ago personally, too much conflict, too much opinion, too much retro, nostalgia bollocks which rules the roost on today's scene, in certain areas it's turned into nothing more than a middle age fancy dress party, baggie pants, stupid hats, circular skirts and all the other naff nonsense has turned the scene into what we were all so worried that it could become, the music has almost become a watered down backing track to this retro scene that masquerades it's self as a rare soul scene in some areas and it sucks it really does, it's very sad but not a suprise, I'll take the tuneage over and above all else, I certainly don't feel the need to join this fancy dress party which basically has nothing to do with the Northern scene I grew up with which was to enjoy, collect, play and celebrate quality hard to find, authentic obscure Black American music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

A very good point. This nostalgia scene is very, very different to the Northern Soul scene where new, underplayed records and a few oldies were part and parcel of driving it forward. Well for as long as I've been involved with it. I refuse to call the nostalgia scene Northern Soul as it's a poor facsimile of a brief period of the scenes history, listening a handful of records and dressing in a uniform that was about for what 5 years of a scene 40 years +?

Nowt against the nostalgia scene lot meeting up and re living the 3 - 5 years or so many of them may have been on the scene. They have every right to dance to the same 100 or so records (more power to em - they seem to enjoy it) but think its little to do with Northern Soul.

Edited by Byrney
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I gotta agree with all you say about the fancy dress Mark. Was at a do other day and on the dancefloor there was some ridiculous looking outfits, seems that is the criteria to get into the top three of a dance comp as well cause certainly couldn't dance. Those doing the floor tricks don't even do it in time to the music, just throw themselves about with little grace and style.

Does little IMO to encourage youngsters onto the scene.

Come on, I know what you mean about clothes and I certainly would not dream of wearing a clothes style I remember with affection but discarded in 1976, but it's not that which is stopping what you call 'youngsters' coming onto the scene...

You cant expect large numbers of people in their teens and twenties to start dedicating their lives to records that are thirty or 40 years old, the very idea is absurd and unfair.

I think we need to remind ourselves of reality. In 1974, when I came in, records I freaked for like 'Helpless' were only 9 years old and even then they seemed to come out of - an admittedly, magical - frozen time machine.

I would not have had the slightest interest in music from the 1940s for gods sake so why should we be expecting young people today to adopt our tastes and obsessions!thumbup.gif

Edited by chorleysoul
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Well Jordi at least you apologised (which I accept) so I'll not let rip with both barrels, but you clearly don't appreciate the dynamic in Australiano.gif . We have a constant flow of UK immigrants, some fresh from the UK scene, others having had a break for many years. Consequently we get requests ranging from Dobie Gray to Rose Battiste to Gene Toones to Mac Staten and I for one refuse to blacklist tunes because they're considered cheesy by others. Even the Dobie Gray type material is too Northern for some, so we also have Motown nights running in parallel. In other words we try to cater for all tastes.

My own club in Perth has been running for 13 years so something must be going right - and the DJs are asked to incorporate at least 4 "new" tracks in their sets to keep things fresh. Brisbane, Adleaide, Sydney, Gold Coast & Melbourne have also had their own scenes for many years and the annual weekender is 12 years old too. If any of the multitudes of UK or European visitors have gone home having had a bad experience, I've never heard about it.

Anyway, like somebody has already pointed out - what the f-ck does it matter? Its all good isn't itthumbup.gif ?

Cheers

Pete

Yes it is all good PETE, great post and if I ever get out there I'll be coming for a taster for sure! It's an English thing you know, we destroy our own creations with obsessive analysis and bitchy criticisms. Imagine some of the original Artists listening to all this and trying to make sense of it!no.gif

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A very good point. This nostalgia scene is very, very different to the Northern Soul scene where new, underplayed records and a few oldies were part and parcel of driving it forward. Well for as long as I've been involved with it. I refuse to call the nostalgia scene Northern Soul as it's a poor facsimile of a brief period of the scenes history, listening a handful of records and dressing in a uniform that was about for what 5 years of a scene 40 years +?

Nowt against the nostalgia scene lot meeting up and re living the 3 - 5 years or so many of them may have been on the scene. They have every right to dance to the same 100 or so records (more power to em - they seem to enjoy it) but think its little to do with Northern Soul.

Little to do with NORTHERN SOUL???? That section of the scene is not really my cup of tea but if 500 people are dancing to something fantastic like 'Love runs out' at an oldies do, it's still got everything to do with NORTHERN SOUL.

The day there are no dances celebrating the great tunes like that, will be very close to the overall end of the scene. (Which as I have just said, is inevitable anyway one day, so what use are wringing hands and hysteria?

Christ, the semantics and self-rightousness on here are reaching ridiculous heights, why the constant bitching and subtle pops at people?thumbsup.gif

Edited by chorleysoul
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thumbsup.gifIn my humble opinion, there isn't a 'scene' but a number of complimentary and sometimes overlapping 'scenes'.

I'm not really sure what we seem to be worrying about...

There are always surges and dips in interest for all manner of reasons (personal, financial, family etc) but ultimately the music speaks for itself and will keep people coming back for more time and time again.

But this need to hang on to the past is academic as things always sort themselves out anyway whether we personally agree or not.

For me, it's all about the enjoyment of this fantastic gift of music we've been given; old, new and yet to be dicovered. To be honest I'm too busy searching out new sounds to my ears and enjoying the ones I've loved for years to worry too much about a term so hard to tie down as 'scene'.

Look at it like this, Mozart's done alright over the years and so will our musical heroes thumbsup.gif

Superb post - Hey! It's a bloody night out at the end of the day and I am going to make sure I try and enjoy every blasted one I attend until I cannot walk anymore! You can always stay at home and play records to yourself, a lot to be said for that sometimes actually!thumbup.gif

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I think it disappeared up there long ago personally, too much conflict, too much opinion, too much retro, nostalgia bollocks which rules the roost on today's scene, in certain areas it's turned into nothing more than a middle age fancy dress party, baggie pants, stupid hats, circular skirts and all the other naff nonsense has turned the scene into what we were all so worried that it could become, the music has almost become a watered down backing track to this retro scene that masquerades it's self as a rare soul scene in some areas and it sucks it really does, it's very sad but not a suprise, I'll take the tuneage over and above all else, I certainly don't feel the need to join this fancy dress party which basically has nothing to do with the Northern scene I grew up with which was to enjoy, collect, play and celebrate quality hard to find, authentic obscure Black American music.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

Why so cynical MARK? It started off as a retro scene so of course this was always going to happen.

But if somebody could discover 5,000 new records as good as 'I'll be your winner', maybe we'd have a chance but let's be honest.

Give or take the odd rarity, all the greatest records are years old now anyway.

Why not just enjoy the good elements and leave the depression to the ABBA fans?thumbup.gif

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No Simon, we have not come full circle. If we had, niters would be full of youngsters dancing to fresh, new sounds every weekend. Instead we have old fogies dancing to played out oldies, every week-ender!. Full circle? more like end of the line! (Comment made with tongue firmly stuck in cheek!)

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Why so cynical MARK? It started off as a retro scene so of course this was always going to happen.

But if somebody could discover 5,000 new records as good as 'I'll be your winner', maybe we'd have a chance but let's be honest.

Give or take the odd rarity, all the greatest records are years old now anyway.

Why not just enjoy the good elements and leave the depression to the ABBA fans?thumbup.gif

Not cynical Pete just expressing an opinion which you seem to do on a regular basis on here, I never mentioned anything about records just what the scene has turned into which has become a little like a fancy dress party for the over fifties in some areas of the scene and is something that I personally would rather not be a part of and choose not to be involved with anymore.

It's almost got to the stage that we are simply going through the motions and do this soul thing no matter what, perhaps because we know nothing else in most cases, as a scene it's be pulled apart and basically battered into submission, for those that still have the passion, dedication and commitment to do it then respect and good luck to them but also respect the flip of the coin and the opinions of others if you like them or not, for me and I stress for me it's simply not fun anymore and has nothing to do with my love for the music that we all know never goes away, guess it's a bit like a boxer who has one fight too many where you forget the greatness and simply see a punch drunk broken man and sorry but I'd rather not sit ringside anymore it's too painful in most cases.

Regards - Mark Bicknell.

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I tell you what, I'm glad I was too young to attend Station Road, the way some folk go on about the place you would think the rare soul scene was wound up in 1981, I know the place was influential BUT IT IS NOW SHUT.

Funnily enough about 10 years ago a certain quiet, retiring ex Blackpool dj was guesting on an ex Wigan dj's radio show and discussing the 'future of the northern soul scene' stating that he would hate to see it as a backward thinking 'teddy boy' type affair. At the time I remember thinking that would never happen, but now, and lets be honest here, things are a tad bizarre, whats with all the funny clothes never mind the music?!unsure.gif

Missing the point

Jimthumbsup.gif

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As a child of the early 70's i attended Wigan Casino because it was the only place to go to hear all these great records. I didn't really know about a scene as such until later. It was the music that drew me there. The earlier venues didn't mean anything to me either. I only found out about them from the older guys like Brian Rae.

What drew me , like a moth to a lighthouse, was music that knocked spots off the top of the pops fodder, and stirred my soul with passion, and the like-minded people that would travel just to hear the music we loved.

Fast forward 8yrs and, what was the Northern soul scene, had become the wigan casino scene, and i wanted to get back to the music, to rare soul and other great soul music.

I remenber i was at an all nighter at maxims in between the last few casino final nights and mike shaft was interviewing various people about their thoughts on the inpending closure of the casino, and i piped up that i couldn't wait for it to close so we could get back to what really mattered, the music. Unsuprisingly, my comments were not broadcast, instead we had less than elequent, toothless and tattooed northern fans saying this was the end of life as we know it.

As it happened the wigan faithfull all but disappeared, and only returned after divorce and kids growing up (yes i know i'm generalising here) brought them back out to the local soul nights expecting and demanding the same records they last heard all those years ago.

Meanwhile the faithfull had stayed the course and were discovering more great old records and new releases and appreciating them. They were starting up new venues with the emphasis on the quality of the music, although the rise of the revival and oldies nights later on didn't help the image of the soul scene at times and perhaps dissuaded new blood from swelling our ranks.

I am a lover of quality soul music, first and foremost, always looking out to hear great new sounds for the first time, but never forgetting all the gems from the past, whether it's from 1960 or 2009, if it moves me inside.

There are Dj's out there that do try and educate and push the boundaries, and they tend to be the part timers with a full time passion for our music.

I'll always love OUR music, it's in my blood and no other music can come close to the way it makes me feel and the bond i have with you guys, whether i know you or not.

What i think i'm saying here is that we all need to keep an open mind on dates and tempo's and just love the music for what it is rather than what it represents.

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Jordi , No offence mate taken it's all about the music and hopefully getting a few addicted like we are so we can keep ''the dream alive !

Roy Burton who does the Manifesto article and helps are scene down under does it on limited imput so often he does got get the chance to always reflect how progressive we are !

Roy & Mike Ritson have been surporting are scene for many years flying out to are big nash bash most years at there own expense, this year will be Roy's 6TH yr on the trot and they are both well loved.

No DJ in Australia as have been paid and any who surport for the pleasure of the experience and to taste are lovly beer haaaaaa.

New Zealand as also an interesting site with a podcast

http://northernsoul....ity/page.php?12

Every Sunday Evening (8pm - 10pm UK Time) we have Simes from Scooter-Fourms Radio

broadcasting his excellent show through our web site, his show is a must for scooterists everywhere

If our media player above doesn't work then use the following settings in your own media player

Real Player, Winamp, iTunes:- http://northernsoul....8000/listen.pls

Windows Media Player:- http://northernsoul.co.nz:8000/

Jordi save up come pay us a visit mate you be well looked after best Johnny red pant's

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Hi Jordi.....had to reply to this, but 'seems' we're behind the times so couldn't get on, we only have electricity on mondays, late wednesday arvo & sometimes on sunday morning if the winds blowing in the right direction......like John has pointed out to you, you're not getting the whole picture, Roy's reporting in the manifesto is limited to what he's supplied with, I agree that's our fault but...I think you'd be very surprised at the Aussie scene & like Pete said we haven't heard any complaints from overseas visitors yet, in fact quite the contary.

I will concede that there may've be a smiggen of truth in some of it, 10 years ago, you have to remember the vast majority of Aussie Soulies are ex-pats with a few musically educated Australians, Some came here anything between 30-20 years ago & thereafter, so it's quite natural for them to be more attuned to hearing oldies, especially as some still manage to crawl out of the forest & the woodwork after all this time. The die hard 'don't want to hear nothing but oldies' crowd isn't that large here, we're always looking for & hearing new sounds, Sam Goldie was playing Carmelita - Isn't It Lonely here way before Soul Sam picked it up.

Generally the music policy is across the board, it has to be, or we wouldn't survive, there I'm sure you have a pick of venues with each one catering to different needs, we don't...most clubs run monthly with no competition.

We have some of the most dedicated soulies in the world who certainly travel a lot more for their passion than most, there's no or very little politics here, which makes our 'little' scene unique, you only have to look at the posted comments in forums on here, 'I only like Oldies'...'Modern Sucks'.....blah, blah. blah....to see what some people back in blighty are whinging about.

We've been running Billy's Beach House for over 5 years now & on separate months to Brisbane's nights so we can support eachother.

This year we have the honour of hosting the 12th Aussie National........so it's not too late to get that cheap flight & experience it for yourself.

KTF

Baz

Some good points there Adam, albeit a bit of a depressing conclusion. I think the problem I have with your conclusion is that it is from a UK only standpoint. Wigan Casino probably means fu@k all to anyone who didn't go, particularly people from other countries than the UK. The scene has now moved from being a UK only 'club' to being appreciated (no less fanatically) in lots of other places around the world. Black American (for the most part Black) is loved and danced to by many different people all around the world. This to me is the biggest factor that makes me feel positive about things, because as anyone can see, the playlists that get shown on the internet from DJ's that aren't from the UK are often the most interesting. Underplayed, quality 60's, new discoveries, 70's stuff to die for (not the 'giffer' 70's plodders that usually get played over here in the UK). I always feel a bit depressed when I read many UK (and funnily enough Australian) playlists, it's as if nothing has changed or grown up for the last 30 years, it's as if for the last 30 years certain DJ's have only been interested in collecting all the expensive tunes they wish they could have afforded back in the 70's. I don't think I've read a single playlist in all the Manifesto magazines (not the Manifesto nights mentioned in Adam's post) that would make me want to go over to an Australian soul event as they seem totally based on a time period 20 - 30 yrs ago in the UK. Apologies here to the people in Australia who are into stuff other than the tried and tested UK Northern, and I know that there are a few who are as keen as ever to dig out the fresh stuff.

I think in the end, the worldwide appreciation of soul music and the head start we in the UK have in having imported a large percentage of the good stuff (although by no means all, particularly the 70's stuff) will ensure that true to the UK spirit, we will rise up and reclaim the scene in the way it originally was, by appreciating killer tunes by either dancing to them or talking about them and creating a demand for them, long after the last ageing crap dancer has finished moaning about how the Carstairs ruined the Northern scene.

Jordi

Edited by bazabod_downunder
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As a child of the early 70's i attended Wigan Casino because it was the only place to go to hear all these great records. I didn't really know about a scene as such until later. It was the music that drew me there. The earlier venues didn't mean anything to me either. I only found out about them from the older guys like Brian Rae.

What drew me , like a moth to a lighthouse, was music that knocked spots off the top of the pops fodder, and stirred my soul with passion, and the like-minded people that would travel just to hear the music we loved.

Fast forward 8yrs and, what was the Northern soul scene, had become the wigan casino scene, and i wanted to get back to the music, to rare soul and other great soul music.

I remenber i was at an all nighter at maxims in between the last few casino final nights and mike shaft was interviewing various people about their thoughts on the inpending closure of the casino, and i piped up that i couldn't wait for it to close so we could get back to what really mattered, the music. Unsuprisingly, my comments were not broadcast, instead we had less than elequent, toothless and tattooed northern fans saying this was the end of life as we know it.

As it happened the wigan faithfull all but disappeared, and only returned after divorce and kids growing up (yes i know i'm generalising here) brought them back out to the local soul nights expecting and demanding the same records they last heard all those years ago.

Meanwhile the faithfull had stayed the course and were discovering more great old records and new releases and appreciating them. They were starting up new venues with the emphasis on the quality of the music, although the rise of the revival and oldies nights later on didn't help the image of the soul scene at times and perhaps dissuaded new blood from swelling our ranks.

I am a lover of quality soul music, first and foremost, always looking out to hear great new sounds for the first time, but never forgetting all the gems from the past, whether it's from 1960 or 2009, if it moves me inside.

There are Dj's out there that do try and educate and push the boundaries, and they tend to be the part timers with a full time passion for our music.

I'll always love OUR music, it's in my blood and no other music can come close to the way it makes me feel and the bond i have with you guys, whether i know you or not.

What i think i'm saying here is that we all need to keep an open mind on dates and tempo's and just love the music for what it is rather than what it represents.

A quality post indeed.....

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Again, to the Aussie lads, I didn't mean to be rude about your scene. I obviously don't know anything about it as I've never been out there, and I feel guilty of being the kind of pillock who spouts off about something he knows f@ck all about. I wasn't having a pop at Roy Burton either as the enthusiasm he shows (at some length shades ) in Manifesto is only to be admired. Not a hint of jadedness or cynicism in his articles, (unlike my posts and a lot of other people's), just love for the scene and Australia in general. It's just an observation I've had a couple or few times reading Roy's DJ's playlists in Manifesto to myself. I'm also not saying that the records on the playlists aren't good, they are killers. On a personal note, I'd love to hear what Sam Goldie plays and see some of the kind of playlists that include 70's stuff and funkier things, but that's just my personal taste. If I could afford to come over to Australia I would love to, unfortunately I'm struggling to keep my kids in trainers, school uniforms, turkey twizzlers and sunny delight and buy tunes at the same time.

Jordi

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Funny that. I was DeeJaying last night, at what can only be described as an extremely progressive venue, and some Wise Guy came and asked me, most insistently, for the Snake!

When I told him I hadn't got it with me, he offered to lend me his own copy :laugh:

Bet you'd have had fun with him, Simon.

:wicked:

Sean

If you could bottle your soul night and feed it intravenously to some of the other soul nights we would see an instant improvement in soul!

I was amazed, refreshed, inspired and down right happy to see this diamond of a soul do shining in a bucket of shit.

Barnsley, Saturday night and perched high above a trendy nuevo pub was a room filled with familiar faces from Wigan Casino, Canklow, School, the local area and Scooter Clubs, these are the people who by all accounts should be dancing to the "Snake" and being stuck firmly into the time space continuum created by their Casino past.

Can middle-aged folk be trendy? Can the older soul night "Soulies" be progressive and knowledgeable? Well it seams as though there is a small yet strong enclave of soulful people out and about in Yorkshire, I can not begin to say how proud I am to have been there, and honest it was like finding sanity in the asylum.

Rotherham, Sheffield, Barnsley, Doncaster, sorry if I don't mention others but I have a theory that we have seen the cream float to the top and culture a new and pure soul, I am struggling to find the words for this because there are no clichs to describe the difference in this superb soul night and some of the many others who have been lazy or scared to evolve.

There are soul nights out there who deserve the highest of accolades and this is one of them, yes we have an oil and water situation happening and the "reenactment crowd" aint gonna like what they hear, no that's not true because if a leap of faith is made then I am sure after some exposure a natural divvy vaccination will take effect, no you don't need a cure for Northernsoul but you do need a cure for "Northernsoul Repetition Disorder" and Doctor Soul is in da house!

Sorry to the DJ's who I asked to play the "Snake", good answers yet "F*ck off" was not the most eloquent lol.

Mega soul night and thank you for restoring my faith back in the manor.

Having left this most excellent soul do me n Deka jumped into the car and headed towards Burnley, we parked the car and entered the do just as some bloke called Karl Herd took to the decks, well he may as well of been the Captain of the Star Ship Enterprise coz he took us to another dimension in soul, the dance floor was up for it and I can honestly say that I have never ever heard so many new records played in such quick secession with the quality of the classics, surely Mr Herd has sold his soul to the devil in exchange for this record box? It's not normal, it's not right and it's down right sexy n hot!

I would love to see Sean Chapman double deck with Karl Herd, can any one make this happen? Andy?

Northernsoul is still out there, you got to look n talk to people but more importantly ya gotta dive into the unknown the water aint cold I promise!

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