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When Is Soul Not Soul?

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Had a great chat on the way back on the ferry today with 4 of my lrish mates discussing our passion...l used the old favourite "Some Northern Soul isn't soul!" My mate said "Well it doesn't have to be...cos it's Northern Soul!" l was speechless....He was right!! :rolleyes:

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Well my view on this is at least most of Northern soul is by a soul artist and therefor it is soul but made as Northern soul. Others is made by a pop star which isn't soul but instead of Northern soul and i hope that answers a question

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I suppose there is Northern soul dance music ie music that you can dance to in a NS stylee eg interplay , ten miles high etc get my drift . Then there is Northern soul , only the truly soulfull amongst us will understand its esoteric and difficult to explain but you either get it or you dont .biggrin.gif

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it's all subjective, one can't have a genreic 'soul-o-meter'.

some maria callas' puccini araias would have a soulful content which would blow the soul-o-meter's socks off.

it's soul jim, but not as we know it.

luckily there is a vast collection of people around our scene that have in-built soul-o-meters and they are pretty damned accurate but only to like minded people.

as i say..... subjective.

sadly mr. godin should have christened it 'northern dance' and then all the ghosts of controversy would most certainly be laid to rest..... except..... one man's dancer is anotherman's enjoyable up-tempo little number!

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I suppose there is Northern soul dance music ie music that you can dance to in a NS stylee eg interplay , ten miles high etc get my drift . Then there is Northern soul , only the truly soulfull amongst us will understand its esoteric and difficult to explain but you either get it or you dont .biggrin.gif

Well after 35 years on the scene I still don't get it then cos I love my Chapter Five You can't mean it as much as I love my Dusty Wilson Gonna be a tragedy, both Northern Soul records to me and I don't care if one of them is real soul and one isn't.

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Well after 35 years on the scene I still don't get it then cos I love my Chapter Five You can't mean it as much as I love my Dusty Wilson Gonna be a tragedy, both Northern Soul records to me and I don't care if one of them is real soul and one isn't.

Well put Pete

Surely it don't matter what colour the artist is, it's how it makes you feel inside that counts

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Well my view on this is at least most of Northern soul is by a soul artist and therefor it is soul but made as Northern soul. Others is made by a pop star which isn't soul but instead of Northern soul and i hope that answers a question

No, because it's a completely baffling answer laugh.gif

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I'd say we like predominantly Black American uptempo dance records from the 60's and in some cases, the early to mid 70's. We also like lots of records recorded by white artists that try to encapsulate this sound. Some of us even like records that don't try to encapsulate this sound. We are a wide church, as Jim Callaghan used to say...

Edited by macca

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'I get the sweetest feeling' - Jackie Wilson is a soul record, so is 'keep loving me like you do' Silky Hargreaves

one made the charts, one did'nt

Edited by parkash

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MAYBE SOME PEOPLE JUST CONFUSE THE TWO TERMS "SOUL" AND "NORTHERN SOUL" I JUST THOUGHT A "NORTHERN SOUL" RECORD WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS ACTUALLY PLAYED ON THE "NORTHERN SOUL" SCENE, AND SOME OF THE MOST POPULAR RECORDS ON THIS SCENE HAVE NO "SOUL" CONTENT AT ALL :)

BRI PINCH.

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MODERN NORTHERN,RARE NORTHERN, NORTHRN OLDIES, NORTHERN DANCE, NORTHERN DANCE. NORTHERN SOUL WAS JUST A INVENTED WORD. THE SCENE'S MUSIC COVERS ALL COLOURS & CREEDS AND IN MY EYES SOUL IS SOMETHING THAT COMES FROM THE HEART AND B*LLOCKS TO THE PURIST'S WHO SAY IT HAS TO BE PREDOMITLEY BLACK AMERICAN.

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Well after 35 years on the scene I still don't get it then cos I love my Chapter Five You can't mean it as much as I love my Dusty Wilson Gonna be a tragedy, both Northern Soul records to me and I don't care if one of them is real soul and one isn't.

Pete whats real soul ? I am more confused than ever now thumbsup.gif

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25 years at it ,still dont get it,bought a copy of dobie gray"in crowd" on charger one nite ,i was made up ,only to be told its "not northern" ,get your head round that,one of the best soul tunes ever,but charlie gracie "never love you etc" went for stupid money with it being the main record bar talk of the nite

regards doog

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25 years at it ,still dont get it,bought a copy of dobie gray"in crowd" on charger one nite ,i was made up ,only to be told its "not northern" ,get your head round that,one of the best soul tunes ever,but charlie gracie "never love you etc" went for stupid money with it being the main record bar talk of the nite

regards doog

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Guest soulpeeper

Northern soul is maybe about the underdog who strives to make a classic but at the same time fails miserably probably because the tune sounds as tho its bein played in reverse with awful key changes and is flawed to f+ck but to us it sounds utterly wonderful... Largely You dont go to a northern gig and hear a stevie or a diana ross simply because they are overground and well known - top soul tunes all the same but they are megastars and Northern soul doesnt do megastars i dont think.

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Northern soul will play anything and if it's megastars then it can be a song that is not there most obvious

ie Northern soul nights will play Sam cooke - Sugar Dumpling, Otis Redding - Loving By The Pound, Jackie Wilson - Because of You, and so on but if you ask normal joe public or go to a disco or some say classic soul and disco night they will play same artist but it will be Wonderful World, Sitting on the dock of the bay, Reet Pettie

just happens they can be mixed with rare soul artists who only ever made it cause there songs are big on the Northern soul scene

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MODERN NORTHERN,RARE NORTHERN, NORTHRN OLDIES, NORTHERN DANCE, NORTHERN DANCE. NORTHERN SOUL WAS JUST A INVENTED WORD. THE SCENE'S MUSIC COVERS ALL COLOURS & CREEDS AND IN MY EYES SOUL IS SOMETHING THAT COMES FROM THE HEART AND B*LLOCKS TO THE PURIST'S WHO SAY IT HAS TO BE PREDOMITLEY BLACK AMERICAN.

The 'purists' would say it has to ALL be black surely?

I'm not a 'purist' in that sense but I'd say it IS predominately black american and thats for a reason.

It is predominately black american artists of the 60's and 70's that produce the sound most of us want to hear. Yes there are white and hispanic artists artists that do it too but they are the exception. Not because I or anyone else says so just beacuse thats the way it is.

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I think you can call it what you like. 'Northern soul' in it's broadest sense e.g. Wheel - Torch - Wigan - Stafford - Lifeline etc etc etc represents an almost evolutionary process whereby, inevitably, new things were found and played and became accepted. The term 'NS', whilst largely irrelevant to me personally, encompasses a whole range of genres, it's a broad church for sure - which is a great thing too IMHO.

It has come to matter less and less to me what it's referred to and by whom - which is another factor of course; we will all have a differing taste depending on where we've been, what we heard and when etc. Music is funny like that I think and NS in particular because, almost by definition, it is such an integral part of our lives and has been for years and years that it is part of who we are, both individually and collectively. (Hmmm, the sociologists might have something to say about the collectivity angle e.g. how fragmented 'scenes' inevitably become within an increasingly fragmented society ... there's a PhD in there for any Bergerian sociologists amongst you ... ... but let's not go there eh... ... :no:)

I'd suggest that, in some cases, we might attach more weight to a particular record because of the memories it carries with it, not totally regardless of but perhaps with less onus being placed on the actual 'quality' / stereotypical soulfulness of the record?

In the final analysis, as long as folk can shuffle about to it and so long as it does that funny thing to your insides when you hear it you're not far away I reckon thumbsup.gif That's what 'soul' means to me anyway for what it's worth.

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When is it not soul_ When its the back door of a relient robin!!!!!

the problem is trying to fit the vast range of R&B (us genre for what we call soul thats been used since the uplifting often emotional combining of Blues ,old spiritualist and the applying of a constant rythem !! ) in to boxes.

for me the era of recording the artist background and the variation to 4/4 are not important Its soul you feel it . It has no class - no colour -no restrictions- and has constantly evolved and changed as we see in the tunes popular at certain times with the changing acceptance of music.

'kin 'el that was a rant!!! H.a Ha

cheers. Ed

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