Which Era Suppliesthe Best Newies Of Today ?

[Pete S]

Its swings and roundabouts Pete, there is no way of meeting the gap between the type of person who wants to go back to the 50s and those who want to hear Soul from the 70s and onwards in terms of newies. As for MOST, you could try a poll on here, but the wording would have to be distinct and fairly balanced. I can only talk from my own friends and I do not know anybody well who champions 50S R/B as the way forward for Newies on today's scene, that's the honest truth.

I only threw in the word 50's originally because one or two records like that were creeping in. But again, if you were to ask me - what would you rather hear - 50's R&B or 70's soul - I'd reply in the former. But I'd rather hear neither of them if I could just hear 60's.

[Pete S]

Yes, as the main attraction northern soul has for me is that it´s quality music I neither hear in supermarkets nor share with Joe Public

Those Motown records are the bedrock of the scene though! I've heard I'll Always Love You and This Old heart Of Mine probably 5000 times, they never sound stale or boring, they are just perfection.

[Hermanthegerman]

Dunno, Pete, heard them too often for my likings....

[Pete S]

Dunno, Pete, heard them too often for my likings....

I think the mark of a great record is that you can listen to it at anytime, anywhere, and it'll either bring a smile to your face or a shiver to your spine...

[Hermanthegerman]

...or bore you to death

[Pete S]

...or bore you to death

No that wouldn't be the work of a great record would it, be serious!

[Hermanthegerman]

Don´t get me wrong, I like my fair share of Motown, but it doesn´t have to be the obvious hits for my ears

although I like that one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wfJpGj1ggY

[Guest Brett F]

...or bore you to death

Excuse me, i don't know you, but are you from Germany ?, you seem to belittle Motown in it's various guises, this is really ridiculous, are you a soul fan or not.....i'm shocked and rather incredulous that anyone purporting to be a SOUL fan would not care for the main elements of Motown...

Edited January 8, 2010 by Brett F

[Paul-s]

I sell what people want to buy Paul, that's why I sold almost everything on my list today, if I sold obscure newies only I wouldn't have been able to do what I'm doing for so long, so I think I've probably got it right.

Your capree record is f*cking awful, I said that when you posted it 2 years ago.

People danced to Bryan Hyland, it didn't mean it was any good.

And you can try and insult me all you like, your opinion means absolutely nothing so why waste your time doing it?

As ever dishing out insults and then moaning when they come back Pete. I found you intimating i lie about where ive been an insult. Anyway, as ever loads of bigotted rubbish and unsubstantiated statements from you and the guy who can only call 70s 'Gay Disco'..bless him.

4/4 beat

Frankie Crocker

Delrays Inc

Niteliters

Detroit Executives and loads of others were played back in the so called 'heyday' and none have the 4/4 you say defines Northern, yet packed floors at most venues.

As for 'Gay Disco' for f--ks sake what do you call Lost Summer Love, Pick Me Up And Put Me In Your Pocket, Theme From The Fantastic Plastic Flying Machine, Esperanto, the Chas & Dave sound a like Interplay and the hundreds of otherv atrocities that were played then...pure sh--te and definitely no soul in them!

Just because your favourite tune by CAMP has the lyric Hup 2, 3, 4, doesnt mean there arent numbers after that and that beats contain them Pete.

If you think what i play is shit list 10 of them with a critique, or is it just a bigotted generalisation? At least i know the music you talk about and therefore have a right to an informed opinion...your just full of Guff and hollow opinions, based on venturing out no further than your living room.

As Johnny King & The Fatback Band say ' Let All get together in Peace , Love, not war'. You probably dont know it Pete (but will have an opinion anyway).. x

[Paul-s]

Just reading Black Echoes from March 3rd 1979 and all these venues have Northen/Funk events. These are just from one week!!

Tiffs Newcastle Funk & Northern Alldayer with Searling, Winstanley, Evison, Rae and more

Birmingham Locarno Funk & Northern All dayer withPep, King, Evison, Neil Allen, Dave Til, Clive Jones and more

Scottish Soul Society Funk All dayer in Bathgate with Tony, Segun, Ned, Frazer

A lot of people who say they went out and about back in the day seem to have forgotten what was out and about!!

[Pete S]

As ever dishing out insults and then moaning when they come back Pete. I found you intimating i lie about where ive been an insult. Anyway, as ever loads of bigotted rubbish and unsubstantiated statements from you and the guy who can only call 70s 'Gay Disco'..bless him.

4/4 beat

Frankie Crocker

Delrays Inc

Niteliters

Detroit Executives and loads of others were played back in the so called 'heyday' and none have the 4/4 you say defines Northern, yet packed floors at most venues.

As for 'Gay Disco' for f--ks sake what do you call Lost Summer Love, Pick Me Up And Put Me In Your Pocket, Theme From The Fantastic Plastic Flying Machine, Esperanto, the Chas & Dave sound a like Interplay and the hundreds of otherv atrocities that were played then...pure sh--te and definitely no soul in them!

Just because your favourite tune by CAMP has the lyric Hup 2, 3, 4, doesnt mean there arent numbers after that and that beats contain them Pete.

If you think what i play is shit list 10 of them with a critique, or is it just a bigotted generalisation? At least i know the music you talk about and therefore have a right to an informed opinion...your just full of Guff and hollow opinions, based on venturing out no further than your living room.

As Johnny King & The Fatback Band say ' Let All get together in Peace , Love, not war'. You probably dont know it Pete (but will have an opinion anyway).. x

I'll just ignore the purile rubbish in the middle of that post but if you check back you'll find it wasn't me who said anything about "gay disco", it was the poster before me. I await your apology written on bootleg copy of my apparent favourite record, marching.

n.b. all of the records you mentioned have a 4/4 beat.

[Pete S]

Just reading Black Echoes from March 3rd 1979 and all these venues have Northen/Funk events. These are just from one week!!

Tiffs Newcastle Funk & Northern Alldayer with Searling, Winstanley, Evison, Rae and more

Birmingham Locarno Funk & Northern All dayer withPep, King, Evison, Neil Allen, Dave Til, Clive Jones and more

Scottish Soul Society Funk All dayer in Bathgate with Tony, Segun, Ned, Frazer

A lot of people who say they went out and about back in the day seem to have forgotten what was out and about!!

The Birmingham Locarno Bali hai room played jazz funk not straight funk. I used to go there you see.

[Pete S]

As Johnny King & The Fatback Band say ' Let All get together in Peace , Love, not war'. You probably dont know it Pete (but will have an opinion anyway).. x

I don't know it but it's rubbish :-)

[Paul-s]

I'll just ignore the purile rubbish in the middle of that post but if you check back you'll find it wasn't me who said anything about "gay disco", it was the poster before me. I await your apology written on bootleg copy of my apparent favourite record, marching.

n.b. all of the records you mentioned have a 4/4 beat.

Ha! amazing...you can only hear a 4/4 beat.....therefore you should be happy with all music.

Frankie has an 8/4 beat to me. But i guess you always danced.4/4. If you look at old clips from Wigan of people stomping (shuffling) their not following a 4/4 Pete.

[manus]

I never tire of Motown - Jimmy Ruffins Farewell, Brokenhearted, Passed this way - Marv Johnsons Pick a rose - Martha's Forget me not - jeez the list is endless - any of these and the back of my necks tingling.

Cheers

Manus

[Pete S]

Ha! amazing...you can only hear a 4/4 beat.....therefore you should be happy with all music.

Frankie has an 8/4 beat to me. But i guess you always danced.4/4. If you look at old clips from Wigan of people stomping (shuffling) their not following a 4/4 Pete.

Does it really matter Paul, shall we concentrate on the original question instead of bickering?

[bri pinch]

OK THEN....NORTHERN SOUL IS DEAD. NOWADAYS IT'S CALLED THE RARE SOUL SCENE ANYWAY, EMBRACING ALL SORTS OF STYLES AND RHYHMS FROM 1953....WHEN IT WAS CALLED RACE MUSIC, TILL THE SOUNDS OF 2010 (APPARENTLY). WE ALL HAVE OUR OPINIONS OF WHAT WE LIKE AND DISLIKE LETS LIVE AND LET LIVE FOR FUCK SAKE LETS JUST THANK GOD WE STILL GOT SOMETHING IN 2010 BE IT MUSIC WITH SPOONS OR GAY BAR DISCOSHITE

PEACE.

BRI PINCH.

[Guest]

This topic has just gone mental so here was the original question:

Which Era Supplies the Best Newies Of Today ?

The answer is: the 60's unless anyone can actually provide proof that it's not...like share with us an 80's discovery that's better than, I don't know, The Group featuring cecil washington

Firstly Pete, you are way off beam on this, there is simply no ration in that post. What do you mean 'prove' it....You cannot 'prove' or provide 'proof' in what is essentially a subjective discussion.

The question asked is going to elicit differing responses from differing people, depending on their differing tastes. In fact it is you who seems most exasperated that people simply will not accept your definitions or viewpoint. But one person's 'proof' is another person's contempt, that is what happens in subjective debates.

Secondly, your selection of CECIL WASHINGTON is not relevant. That was a 'newie' of that particular era. Not a 'newie' today.

He has not asked 'Which era can provide the best newies that are as good as the newies from 1976-8'. He has asked 'Which era can provide the best newies for today'...

Today....When we all know there is very little chance of discovering records like that. A subtle difference.

[Pete S]

Firstly Pete, you are way off beam on this, there is simply no ration in that post. What do you mean 'prove' it....You cannot 'prove' or provide 'proof' in what is essentially a subjective discussion.

The question asked is going to elicit differing responses from differing people, depending on their differing tastes. In fact it is you who seems most exasperated that people simply will not accept your definitions or viewpoint. But one person's 'proof' is another person's contempt, that is what happens in subjective debates.

Secondly, your selection of CECIL WASHINGTON is not relevant. That was a 'newie' of that particular era. Not a 'newie' today.

He has not asked 'Which era can provide the best newies that are as good as the newies from 1976-8'. He has asked 'Which era can provide the best newies for today'...

Today....When we all know there is very little chance of discovering records like that. A subtle difference.

Rich - I don't care - I'm just joining in a debate! But the best newies are always going to be 60's newies, surely thats a given?

[bri pinch]

Rich - I don't care - I'm just joining in a debate! But the best newies are always going to be 60's newies, surely thats a given?

CERTAINLY WOULDN'T SAY THAT THEY'RE THE BEST, BUT THERE IS A LOT MORE OF EM.

BRI PINCH.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

...for more synthesizers

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Seems to me that in the beginning - late 60s - early 70s, all of us had our 'ears open' to anything new. In fact if we were getting a regular diet of repeats at venues we'd move on elsewhere. The Casino, the Mecca and the like were then at the forefront of offering something new each week. Most of the 'newies' then came from the 60s - they were being found and aired week-in, week-out. We all craved something new.

But things have moved on timewise (40 or more years have elapsed) and it seems now that many have lost the desire and hunger to listen to anything new (regardless of era). A real pity and what, in my view, is partly to blame for the failure of the scene to move on at the pace it used to progress at (with some notable 'up-front' venue exceptions) and is increasingly becoming a primarily nostalgia driven phenomenon.

Brian

[Guest]

Yes, as the main attraction northern soul has for me is that it´s quality music I neither hear in supermarkets nor share with Joe Public

Once upon a time mate, maybe. You may not believe this but me and My MRs were shopping in a supermarket a few years back and several Northern classics were playing via the tannoy. When I sought down one of the staff, it turned out it was a copy of the KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN Northern Soul compilation that was being played in all their branches. True story.

Not share with JOE PUBLIC? Do me a favour, the mystique around Northern Soul perished years ago. Does not detract from the quality of the music but that 'elitist' thing becomes kind of redundant when Radio 2 are broadcasting 'live' from All-Nighters.

(So it's got to be rare to be any good then eh?)

Edited January 8, 2010 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

Those Motown records are the bedrock of the scene though! I've heard I'll Always Love You and This Old heart Of Mine probably 5000 times, they never sound stale or boring, they are just perfection.

You know what, I bet you've heard them more than 5,000 times but on this point we are in total agreement. Seems like HERMAN is at odds with that though. First Northern Soul fan I have ever met who dismisses records like that.

Edited January 8, 2010 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

Don´t get me wrong, I like my fair share of Motown, but it doesn´t have to be the obvious hits for my ears

although I like that one...

https://www.youtube.c...h?v=6wfJpGj1ggY

Flip it over, the B side is far better, 'Your cheating ways', like a slowed down, midtempo CHECKBOARD SQUARES backing track with a lovely pleading female vocal, a classic side from the unheralded Detroit songbook. If the B side had been on Golden World or Revilot or Thelma, it would have been an enormous Northern record.

[Davetay]

(So it's got to be rare to be any good then eh?)

Yes it has got to cost at least £1000 to be any good!

NOT

[Guest]

I never tire of Motown - Jimmy Ruffins Farewell, Brokenhearted, Passed this way - Marv Johnsons Pick a rose - Martha's Forget me not - jeez the list is endless - any of these and the back of my necks tingling.

Cheers

Manus

It is an endless list and thats before you get onto B sides and Album tracks. Its the single greatest catalogue of Soul music ever created by one company, that's all.

Makes me laugh when people call it a 'pop' company. Just played the B side to THE VELVELETTES 'these things will keep me loving you'.

'Since you been loving me'. Gorgeous femme group Soul of the highest order but, hey, we digress....

Edited January 9, 2010 by chorleysoul

[Guest]

Rich - I don't care - I'm just joining in a debate! But the best newies are always going to be 60's newies, surely thats a given?

No, not neccessarily for me. Not if they come from 1962 and are hard edged R/B, no.

I do not like a lot of records like that. There are good Soul sides from before 64 of course, but I am talking about gritty R/B. Not my bag, in the same way you don't like a lot of 70s stuff.

[Guest john s]

Personally, I'd always rather hear gritty r'n'b, but then I'm not a massive Motown fan, either.

[Guest]

Personally, I'd always rather hear gritty r'n'b, but then I'm not a massive Motown fan, either.

Each to their own then eh? Can't see where this thread can go from here, had my say cheers guys.

[Guest mickeyb]

Hopefully,this should warm things up a little on a cold,cold night....

Just an observation. As the traditional undiscovered Northern style Sixties sounds are becoming harder and harder to find,[mostly, they seem to be originally unissued items these days],the options for finding Soulfull and Danceable newies would seem to come from two main,[though ,wildly different]directions.

So, i`m interested to know that apart from the smattering of new traditional Sixties Northern style sounds which are being played, whether you lot think the best Newies for the Northern scene come from the early Sixties/R&B camp or the Crossover/70`s/80`s Soul sounds.........

Im just interested to know your opinions. Over to you brothers & sisters .......

Having read, with interest, the whole thread, I think we are all agreed - Post War.

[Benji]

Having read, with interest, the whole thread, I think we are all agreed - Post War.

That's cheap! Definy which war! WW2? Korean War? Vietnam? Falkland? Iraq?

[Guest john s]

That's cheap! Definy which war! WW2? Korean War? Vietnam? Falkland? Iraq?

Which Iraq war?

[Guest mickeyb]

That's cheap! Definy which war! WW2? Korean War? Vietnam? Falkland? Iraq?

Good point!

I meant WW2, but I think I'll plump for Korean. Can't see anyone playing R&B from pre 1953/4.

Not sure why so many are arguing about this. Surely the vast majority of us on here love 60's soul more than anything else - it's what we all grew up with. Some also like 70's (me) and some like 50's R&B (not me, but good for them). Who gives?

[purist]

I'm really disapointed, having started to read this thread without my brain in gear.

D'oh, How I read it was, I thought it was gonna be which era of the scene provided the best Newies -

so we could have had folk argueing whether Richard towards the end of the Casino dug out the best set of Newies,

or maybe the Guy & Keb & Co. era in the 80's - that certainly produced some gems,

or Ady C @ 100 club ( he must be up with the best of them, for all those unreleased tracks)

I liked the early mid 90's for the Newies that came to the fore then. Not saying it was the best, just that I liked it.

see, if you completely misunderstand the thread, you can just answer your own thread :-)

Wishful thinking, combined with too much medication...

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

anything that is new and never played and released from the past will come from the 60's which is what i like mostly. I don't mind hearing some 70's and 80's and so on but mostly 60's. that's why if it's 2 rooms at an event i am in the oldies and not modern room (not that i hate modern)

i would also say that R & B to me is not so much connected to soul as i find some artists are blues and it has a rock 'n' roll edge on parts

also what is gay disco, people hate disco so i hear but it's all soul, it's just like funk but more commercial and you find many disco songs are by as we say soul artists weather it's Real Thing, Kc and the Sunshine Band, Rose Royce, Candi Staton etc. You just have take all the pop artists out who make a disco song and i guess that's a reason people dislike it cause too many pop stars who make a disco song ie bee gees etc.

i want to finish with nothing is ever Northern soul now because people keep using so many terms to label it

[Dave]

Yes but what's your point?

Post of the year!

.. and I don't really like Pete

[Hermanthegerman]

Once upon a time mate, maybe. You may not believe this but me and My MRs were shopping in a supermarket a few years back and several Northern classics were playing via the tannoy. When I sought down one of the staff, it turned out it was a copy of the KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN Northern Soul compilation that was being played in all their branches. True story.

Not share with JOE PUBLIC? Do me a favour, the mystique around Northern Soul perished years ago. Does not detract from the quality of the music but that 'elitist' thing becomes kind of redundant when Radio 2 are broadcasting 'live' from All-Nighters.

(So it's got to be rare to be any good then eh?)

As I´m in Germany, we haven´t got Northern Soul in supermarkets, on beer bottles or on most radio stations (and I like it like that).

And yes, in my personal opinion the perfect record is one that´s both good and rare.

That´s one thing that makes the scene "elitist" and "mystique" and therefore exciting to me even nowadays.

[Pete S]

Post of the year!

.. and I don't really like Pete

[posstot]

What Driza Bone isn't Soul?? l'm gonna ask your brother Dave to give you a clout round the ear'ole for that!

Anyway go and get changed...

Aha......I remember our Dave coming to the scooter club we'd set up in our youthy....playing aretha franklyn pink caddilac trying to tell me it was soul. All i heard was Chart music!! Now THAT deserved a clip around the ear hole...

[posstot]

Well, if you do not like any records like that, it's bloody hard to imagine what attracted you to Northern Soul. Bizarre.

HUH?

[posstot]

And you don't like classic tunes from DETROIT SPINNERS, JUNIOR WALKER, FOUR TOPS, MARTHA REEVES, MARVIN GAYE, SMOKEY AND THE MIRACLES, THE TEMPTATIONS either but you are a Northern Soul fan. (Who dismisses the bedrock of the music)

And what is the bedrock of MOTOWN exactly. You've tied your shoe laces together there me dear!!

[Chalky]

I see this topic has gone the way of many before it.......

Was the original question era or genres? or do they mean they same

the 60's was the best era!! But today there are very few quality "new" 60's records being discovered. Like Ivor said the few that are are acetates or unissued tapes. Crossover has limited appeal so hardly the mainstream Northern Scene, you can't dance to most of it, ok if all you do is sit and listen. Much of the mainstream Northern Scene has hardly progressed for years sticking to what was in eras gone by. There are still plenty from the 80's that will be still unknown to many who weren't there so maybe that era is an area that will eventually be tapped into, some of the top DJ's are already going back to the 80's with plays like the Limitations and The Flairs (Butch).

Edited January 9, 2010 by chalky

[Guest Ivor Jones]

I see this topic has gone the way of many before it.......

Was the original question era or genres? or do they mean they same

the 60's was the best era!! But today there are very few quality "new" 60's records being discovered. Like Ivor said the few that are are acetates or unissued tapes. Crossover has limited appeal so hardly the mainstream Northern Scene, you can't dance to most of it, ok if all you do is sit and listen. Much of the mainstream Northern Scene has hardly progressed for years sticking to what was in eras gone by. There are still plenty from the 80's that will be still unknown to many who weren't there so maybe that era is an area that will eventually be tapped into, some of the top DJ's are already going back to the 80's with plays like the Limitations and The Flairs (Butch).

Yes but Pete doesnt like them.....

Light the blue Touchpaper and stand well back

Thanks to everyone for their contributions big and small, we`ll all have to just get along. Maybe we can adopt different elements of dress styles to incorporate the different musical styles of todays scene. Must all be worn together though......

Shoes: Brothel Creepers [1950`s Newies style]

Trousers: Nasty 70s Flares [in the gay disco style] Its the way forward you know.

Shirt: Button Down Collar ..For the Mods / Skinhead [Got to be a Nice Check though in a Stevie Marriot Stylee]

Jacket : Teddy Boy Drape Jacket[ 1950s Newies Style].In the style of an Edwardian Dandy,you too can look a right cock.......

Hat: Mighty boosh Future Sailor Hats [For the 80s Newies fans].Google it if you dont know......

Glove: Only one [in black leather] to be worn at any one time. Yes i know........

I reckon it might catch on as the New Northern Soul look. But only with your help......

Best, Ivor

Edited January 9, 2010 by Ivor Jones

[Hermanthegerman]

Excuse me, i don't know you, but are you from Germany ?, you seem to belittle Motown in it's various guises, this is really ridiculous, are you a soul fan or not.....i'm shocked and rather incredulous that anyone purporting to be a SOUL fan would not care for the main elements of Motown...

Just saw this post, sorry for being late.

Are my posts above yours so difficult to understand- is it my bad english?

And how did you guess I´m from Germany

[Guest gordon russell]

heres a thought .....theres only one genre of music that keeps a nighter banging ALL NIGHT......uptempo 60,s (no, not fookin big oldies all night)......70,S stuff is great ....in the car or having a beer on the patio in the summer....If 70,S was that good as i,ve said before....try an allnighter full of mid tempo 70,s/crossover....truth is the place would be empty in 2 sets.......It,s all about context.......70,s at home,in the car or ya trendy wine bar.......lovely music....................out for a night of dancing it has to be banging 60,S/Kicking black R&B and some nice funk edged stuff ala karl herd......proof of the pud must be in the eating.....Oh and lastly it don,t mean the top 200 lol ....T

[Benji]

heres a thought .....theres only one genre of music that keeps a nighter banging ALL NIGHT......uptempo 60,s (no, not fookin big oldies all night)......70,S stuff is great ....in the car or having a beer on the patio in the summer....If 70,S was that good as i,ve said before....try an allnighter full of mid tempo 70,s/crossover....truth is the place would be empty in 2 sets.......It,s all about context.......70,s at home,in the car or ya trendy wine bar.......lovely music....................out for a night of dancing it has to be banging 60,S/Kicking black R&B and some nice funk edged stuff ala karl herd......proof of the pud must be in the eating.....Oh and lastly it don,t mean the top 200 lol ....T

So it's either uptempo 60s or midtempo 70s? Tell you what, an allnighter full of midtempo 60s would be empty as well.

[Benji]

Any chance we could get back to the orignal question?

Here's a thought: There are tons of decent and lesser known/unknown R&B or 70s tracks that could get plays. But in the long run it's the dancefloor that decides if a track is any good and if it's R&B or 70s/80s stuff that will be tomorrow newies. A few years ago the more hard edge soul/R&B style was 'en vogue' hence many a new tunes were in that style. Then the more funky crossover 70s stuff became the fashion of the day and for some time many a newies/monster spins were from that camp.

But one thing's for sure, the days of good quality 60s soul newies are certainly long gone.

[Pete S]

Yes but Pete doesnt like them.....

He means 60's records discovered in the 80's and yes I do like them, what a daft thing to say.

[Guest]

And what is the bedrock of MOTOWN exactly. You've tied your shoe laces together there me dear!!

Not at all. Yes of course, R/B is an element of musical influence on what became the Motown Sound, crossed with Gospel and pop. But that is talking about the direct genetic musical link between musical styles fashioned and created in America. The 'Northern Soul' scene and that classic, traditional 'northern sound' came from a host of 60s record labels trying to impersonate or pick up on the shirt tails of Motown's success, once the 'Motown Sound' itself had evolved and emerged. These elements then combined thru recognition and affection in England to create a dance orienated scene based around records created in that slipstream. Nobody in America ever used the term 'Northern Soul'. So to me and a lot of others - including PETE it appears - Motown is logically the bedrock of the Northern Soul classic sound.

To sum up, the definition of what made an original classic 'Northern Soul' record was concieved by fans, collectors, DJ's etc. In England.

The musical evolution from R/B to GOSPEL crossed with POP was the creation of Musicians and Producers. Equals = Soul Music. Dancers, Ballads, Deep, midtempo, a host of differing flavours. Created and defined as 'Soul Music' in America.

Two different areas of definition mate. Simple. But a totally different thematic angle as opposed to the original question.