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The Ultimate Crossover Record


Garethx

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Guest wrighty

Yes. Sticking my neck out I'd say it's probably the best double-sided independent soul record ever made. By anyone. Ever.

hmm, you could be right there but the ray frazier i just put up isnt far off wink.gif

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Guest wrighty

Think that Sugar Bear is an exceptional record. This flip is great too. Apparently its the TSU Toronados doing the backing? Is that correct?

Also got to agree with the Ray Frazier! Keep em coming smile.gif

correct, this is taken from a blog by the guy who found my copy:-

This is the Long Forgotten Texas Soul Group: Sugar Bear. They were in Houston in the late sixties to early seventies, manged by Skipper Lee Frzier, Sugar Bear sometimes opened up concerts for Archie Bell and the Drells, (notice the label its on, 'drells') whom Lee also managed, and Sugar Bear used the TSU Tornados as their backing band and arranger for both tracks. (Lee Also managed the TSU Tornados).

wink.gif

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The role of the TSU Toronadoes in all of this shouldn't be under-estimated. The Tighten Up rhythm is a cornerstone of much Crossover and is a key factor in the transition between the sound of typical mid-sixties soul and what was to come in the 70s.

Think of the amount of great records which owe a debt to that patented bass, drums, guitar interaction: Benny Harper, Frederick Hymes, Natural 4, Carmelita and on and on, quite apart from the great records which the Toronadoes would have actually played on for Ovide and other labels in their own right.

I never tire of hearing their stuff because it's so musical. There's always something in there that sounds fresh and exciting.

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correct, this is taken from a blog by the guy who found my copy:-

This is the Long Forgotten Texas Soul Group: Sugar Bear. They were in Houston in the late sixties to early seventies, manged by Skipper Lee Frzier, Sugar Bear sometimes opened up concerts for Archie Bell and the Drells, (notice the label its on, 'drells') whom Lee also managed, and Sugar Bear used the TSU Tornados as their backing band and arranger for both tracks. (Lee Also managed the TSU Tornados).

wink.gif

Kittie Doswell - Just a face in the Crowd or Rita Graham - Cup runneth over. Both timeless and great records

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Am I alone in appreciating the merits of Johnny Moore.....:ph34r:

Such a Wonderful Feeling - Blue Rock

Lonely Heart In The City - Blue Rock

I Wanna Spend The Rest Of My Life/Just Be For Real - Brunswick

I'm Only Half A Man Without Your Love - Jadan

It's All Over (And Our Love Is A Faded Dream) - Jadan

Just My Way Of Loving You - Date

Edited by John Reed
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Among my constantly changing top 20, there will always be, Willie Tee Teasing you again, Ty karim on Romark, Vee Gees-Talkin', Differences- 5 minutes, Fantastics-where there's a will , but the one for me which hasn't yet been mentioned, and which i feel is probably the most perfect crossover record on many levels, is......

Four Dynamics-Things a lady ain't suppose to do on Peachtree

It has just about everything wanted in a soul record from every perspective you could think of!

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George Hughley That's Why I Cry Buddah

John Parker A Big Mistake Brunswick

Charles Brimmer The Feeling Is In My Heart Broadmoor.

George Wilson Here Stands The Man Who Needs You Black Circle

Jimmy Hicks Tell Her That I Love You Big Deal

Ralph Johnson Have Your Fun Master Key

Neil Reed Not As Beautiful As You Music Now

Dave

Great call on the John Parker Dave , good double header ...Best,Eddie

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Am I alone in appreciating the merits of Johnny Moore.....ph34r.gif

Such a Wonderful Feeling - Blue Rock

Lonely Heart In The City - Blue Rock

I Wanna Spend The Rest Of My Life/Just Be For Real - Brunswick

I'm Only Half A Man Without Your Love - Jadan

It's All Over (And Our Love Is A Faded Dream) - Jadan

Just My Way Of Loving You - Date

You're not alone John. Just as I think of 'Tighten Up' as the bedrock of one whole slab of records with the Crossover sound, I think the Chicago midtempo ballads with a beat, full orchestration etc. are another. Johnny Moore was at the centre of creating that whole type of record.

Another hugely influential record in all of this was Tyrone Davis "Can I Change My Mind", which spawned literally hundreds of soundalike records from all over the states.

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You're not alone John. Just as I think of 'Tighten Up' as the bedrock of one whole slab of records with the Crossover sound, I think the Chicago midtempo ballads with a beat, full orchestration etc. are another. Johnny Moore was at the centre of creating that whole type of record.

Another hugely influential record in all of this was Tyrone Davis "Can I Change My Mind", which spawned literally hundreds of soundalike records from all over the states.

Yes, Tyrone Davis ' can I change my mind' True crossover tune.

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Interesting question and amazed to see the quality of stuff coming out, all real soul records (if you are reading this Mr Smith, just be nice and take it in spirit intended!)

I think for one real ultimate, there can only be one, and no surprise Mr Hampsey proves not only has he the ultimate taste in tank tops and cars, he is the man for this music,

Darrel Banks I'm The One Who Loves You on Volt,

a record of such sublime beauty, it really does move me to tears, a clich used too often IMO to but in this case it works, the juxtaposition of his stunningly beautiful voice, challenged by the jarring delivery of the heartbreakingly perfect lyrics, and the fantastical emotional and moving arrangement, any time he has stopped singing for a second you yearn for him to start again. The man pours his heart and soul into this on so many levels.

I love this record almost as much as any person I have loved or anything I have ever owned (and more than most people or things in all honesty) it is truly life affirming and when I hear people calling me a soul snob or some pathetic soul police insult I put this record on and grin and agree, proud as punch!

I am so proud I played this at many of the all-nighter spots I had and there was no question then of this not being an all-nighter record, a far better time and place for me in NS history.

However in spirit of trying to bring something new to the table interesting no-one has mentioned Tony Borders Promise to Myself on Quinvy, one of my all time favourites, he has a bit of a different voice at times, but I like most of his later stuff and this makes me shiver and quiver in all the right places.

And since I am not known for knowing when to shut up, a few other observations, Mr Reed on the button as usual with Johnny Moore, so much of his stuff was fantastic and fits, would add Garland Green to this, although he was not as consistent, and possibly the daddy of crossover, Tyrone Davis, often too common and samey but each individual record gives me something different, and yes Tighten Up should probably get the first crossover Hall of Fame achievement award!

Interesting no-one has actually mentioned Ruby Andrews Just Loving You, I suspect due to the fact of it now being murdered by the local soul night, playing it on ever format other than Zodiac I suspect, this is a truly beautiful record also, and a great example of the shimmering soul so suited to the crossover clan, sometimes we loathe those things we actually love, for all the wrong reasons!

And Buddy Ace Pleasing You on Paula, gets an honourable mention as one of the first of this type of record to really register in my head way back at Stafford, before the dreaded genre was even conceived, never mind born.

And going forward, many records now in this vein being exposed, but three I would hope still to get their real day, and ones that have real all-nighter potential as well as the more traditional crossover camp soul night venues,

Internationals - Beautiful Philosophy, surely not too slow to be played at all nighters, another one those trendy London modernists Gareth and Marco (sound like a late night Islington comedy duo) have been pushing for many years but I still think it has legs.

And another one from the Hale and Pace of London, Eugene Gaspard - Holding On, maybe this has had its day as price dropping but surely enough energy in this to please the tempo terrorists and spread its self to the new mecca of all things new Kings Hall, (well that's what Mr Trouble said!)

And finally, a dreaded LP track, Alice Clark - Hey Boy, not the more obvious track on the LP, more energetic and more pace, but same vocal dynamism.

Okay that's it from me for now, must go back to writing report I have been pretending to do for last 20 minutes, I do love this music sometimes!

Magical thread Gareth, one of the best in ages.

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Interesting question and amazed to see the quality of stuff coming out, all real soul records (if you are reading this Mr Smith, just be nice and take it in spirit intended!)

I think for one real ultimate, there can only be one, and no surprise Mr Hampsey proves not only has he the ultimate taste in tank tops and cars, he is the man for this music,

Darrel Banks I'm The One Who Loves You on Volt,

a record of such sublime beauty, it really does move me to tears, a clich used too often IMO to but in this case it works, the juxtaposition of his stunningly beautiful voice, challenged by the jarring delivery of the heartbreakingly perfect lyrics, and the fantastical emotional and moving arrangement, any time he has stopped singing for a second you yearn for him to start again. The man pours his heart and soul into this on so many levels.

I love this record almost as much as any person I have loved or anything I have ever owned (and more than most people or things in all honesty) it is truly life affirming and when I hear people calling me a soul snob or some pathetic soul police insult I put this record on and grin and agree, proud as punch!

I am so proud I played this at many of the all-nighter spots I had and there was no question then of this not being an all-nighter record, a far better time and place for me in NS history.

However in spirit of trying to bring something new to the table interesting no-one has mentioned Tony Borders Promise to Myself on Quinvy, one of my all time favourites, he has a bit of a different voice at times, but I like most of his later stuff and this makes me shiver and quiver in all the right places.

And since I am not known for knowing when to shut up, a few other observations, Mr Reed on the button as usual with Johnny Moore, so much of his stuff was fantastic and fits, would add Garland Green to this, although he was not as consistent, and possibly the daddy of crossover, Tyrone Davis, often too common and samey but each individual record gives me something different, and yes Tighten Up should probably get the first crossover Hall of Fame achievement award!

Interesting no-one has actually mentioned Ruby Andrews Just Loving You, I suspect due to the fact of it now being murdered by the local soul night, playing it on ever format other than Zodiac I suspect, this is a truly beautiful record also, and a great example of the shimmering soul so suited to the crossover clan, sometimes we loathe those things we actually love, for all the wrong reasons!

And Buddy Ace Pleasing You on Paula, gets an honourable mention as one of the first of this type of record to really register in my head way back at Stafford, before the dreaded genre was even conceived, never mind born.

And going forward, many records now in this vein being exposed, but three I would hope still to get their real day, and ones that have real all-nighter potential as well as the more traditional crossover camp soul night venues,

Internationals - Beautiful Philosophy, surely not too slow to be played at all nighters, another one those trendy London modernists Gareth and Marco (sound like a late night Islington comedy duo) have been pushing for many years but I still think it has legs.

And another one from the Hale and Pace of London, Eugene Gaspard - Holding On, maybe this has had its day as price dropping but surely enough energy in this to please the tempo terrorists and spread its self to the new mecca of all things new Kings Hall, (well that's what Mr Trouble said!)

And finally, a dreaded LP track, Alice Clark - Hey Boy, not the more obvious track on the LP, more energetic and more pace, but same vocal dynamism.

Okay that's it from me for now, must go back to writing report I have been pretending to do for last 20 minutes, I do love this music sometimes!

Magical thread Gareth, one of the best in ages.

:hatsoff2::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::hypo:

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I think for one real ultimate, there can only be one, and no surprise Mr Hampsey proves not only has he the ultimate taste in tank tops and cars, he is the man for this music,

Darrel Banks I'm The One Who Loves You on Volt,

a record of such sublime beauty, it really does move me to tears, a clich used too often IMO to but in this case it works, the juxtaposition of his stunningly beautiful voice, challenged by the jarring delivery of the heartbreakingly perfect lyrics, and the fantastical emotional and moving arrangement, any time he has stopped singing for a second you yearn for him to start again. The man pours his heart and soul into this on so many levels.

I love this record almost as much as any person I have loved or anything I have ever owned (and more than most people or things in all honesty) it is truly life affirming and when I hear people calling me a soul snob or some pathetic soul police insult I put this record on and grin and agree, proud as punch!

I am so proud I played this at many of the all-nighter spots I had and there was no question then of this not being an all-nighter record, a far better time and place for me in NS history.

Fabulous Jock and thank you - especially for the mention with regards that famous Tank Top! :o)

As you may recall, at the time I started playing the record (especially at AllNighters) nobody gave it a prayer.

It was a bit of a non-starter for many people. Far too subtle, no stomp-stomp beat and it was always regarded as a Darrell Banks third grader (by many on the NS Scene at the time) in comparison to 'Our Love/Pocket' and 'Open The Door'.

Consequently it had been criminally ignored, by most, since its release.

But it sums up for me what I was aiming to do at the time (and am still doing to some extent, if I'm honest) and that was to help shatter the prejudices and rules that bind, blind and shackle the music policy and playlists on the UK soul scene. Looking back, many of my spins around that time would now be deemed 'crossover'.

But, back to the track. It's a truly GREAT Soul record whichever level you view it from (amazingly and cruelly relegated to the 'b' side on release) and, in my view, it needed to be heard on the scene. Of course, in these more enlightened times, its thoroughly deserving of its status within Soul music circles and highly regarded by even the most hardcore NS fan... (even if that recognition came many years after its release).

Better late than never eh, mate!

And agreed, great thread Gareth.

:hatsoff2:

Sean

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And another one from the Hale and Pace of London, Eugene Gaspard - Holding On, maybe this has had its day as price dropping but surely enough energy in this to please the tempo terrorists and spread its self to the new mecca of all things new Kings Hall, (well that's what Mr Trouble said!)

Jock, I don't believe this New Orleans tune has had its day in anyway , in fact I'd say interest in Eugene Gaspard is as strong as ever, if not growing, and acceptance of it's slightly leftfield beauty is welcomed by me for one.

BTW The Internationals tune is fantastic!

ATB

Greg. thumbsup.gif

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I can just about understand getting Coco & Ben and C Coulter confused, but William Cummings ???? laugh.gif

I would agree none crossover IMO but William Cummings is as you say out and out Northern, so is the Ralph Graham I've seen mentioned.

Off top of me head without much thought my ultimate would probably be Chuck Cockerham - Have I Got A Right. Still got a tape or two of yours Cliff in the garage from the mid 80's with this on.

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Interesting to see what other peoples take on the term Xover,proberly my own fav style in Soul music,started buying things

like the "Constellations","Sonny Till","Sumitts""Rotations" ect, back end of the 80s even before i had heard of the term Xover,

so many to choose from now like "Guy Allen-Changes",La Dellics-Never change",Fantastics-Where theres a will","Alex Brown-Sundi","Salt & Pepper",but if i have to go for one it would have to be this one from the early Thorne days,

"Richard Caiton-I`d Like to get near you-Uptight"

Dave f.........................

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My twopenny worth:

Otis Jackson - Beggin' For A Broken Heart (MEGA)

Satin - Your Love's Got Me (SHELL)

Jimmy Burns - Can't Get Over (DISPO)

Sam Butler - I Can't Get Over Loving You (SRI)

These will do for now........................

Brian thumbsup.gif

jimmy burns fantastic tune good choicethumbsup.gif

dave

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Loads of fantastic example of crossover soul so far.

may i add - Bob Relf -Girl, you`re my kind of wonderful

Bobby taylor - Don`t be afraid

Originals - I`m someone who cares

Barbara Brown/Carl Sims - Pity a fool

Shades of Brown - How could you love him

Patti Stokes - Is it true

Elvin Spencer - Lift this Hurt

Charles Brimmer - This feeling is in my heart

I could go on on and on .......... but my number crossover record (at this particular moment anyway !)

Roscoe Robinson - Don`t Pretend (Fame)

Mark H

carl sims "pity a fool" one of my all time faves great choices there Markhatsoff2.gif

dave L

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Am I alone in appreciating the merits of Johnny Moore.....ph34r.gif

Such a Wonderful Feeling - Blue Rock

Lonely Heart In The City - Blue Rock

I Wanna Spend The Rest Of My Life/Just Be For Real - Brunswick

I'm Only Half A Man Without Your Love - Jadan

It's All Over (And Our Love Is A Faded Dream) - Jadan

Just My Way Of Loving You - Date

John not forgetting his Xover winner "Your Loves Got Power" on Bright Star thumbsup.gif

Dave f...........

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Guest Perry

2 from the top drawer from me; The brilliant Ronnie McCain/ This time i';m gone,

and the even better, Jimmie Ellis/ Baby I love you, crossover perfection imo.

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So very hard to pick one choon from so many crap records, but for me would have to be ;

Ernie johnson " i can't stand the pain" artco.

A close run thing tho' with Bobby wilburn/Burn "dreamer" & Pschedlic frankie"putting you out my life" pushing Ernie close.

Hi Mickthumbsup.gif

Surprised you never even mentioned your avatar tunewhistling.gif

crossover personified ......Roosevelt Matthews - you got me diggin you

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A few more that spring to mind!

Clarence Mann Man's Temptation T&M

Ernest Wright Wherever You Go Surviving Hearts

L.T. And The Soulful Dynamics Crazy About You Baby Solo

The Cooperettes Win All Your Love I-D-B

The Counts What's It All About T.M

Lori & Lance I Don't Have To Worry Federal

Connie Austin Ball Of Fire King

That's it back to my VAT returnssad.gif

Dave

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Interesting to see what other peoples take on the term Xover,proberly my own fav style in Soul music,started buying things

like the "Constellations","Sonny Till","Sumitts""Rotations" ect, back end of the 80s even before i had heard of the term Xover,

so many to choose from now like "Guy Allen-Changes",La Dellics-Never change",Fantastics-Where theres a will","Alex Brown-Sundi","Salt & Pepper",but if i have to go for one it would have to be this one from the early Thorne days,

"Richard Caiton-I`d Like to get near you-Uptight"

Dave f.........................

Oh Dave,....... bang on.

I remember crossover before it was crossover

I remember crossover when crossover was soul music, before crossover was northern

I remember crossover before record labels sold the crossover

I remember crossover before the superclubs

I remember crossover...........

thanks to Blaze, I'm sure they will be ok with my sample

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So difficult to narrow it down to just one, so i've had to plump for one male & one female......I thought i'd give it a few pages and read some of those selected already - I might be swayed from my initial gut reaction picks.....nope - they still hold out as my all time faves and for me represent the epitome of the crossover sound......

Aretha's fabulous take on the Maxine Brown classic - Oh No Not My Baby. Truly makes it her own.....

And an LP track from Willie Hutch - Let's Try It Over from the 'Seasons' LP. Sublime & breathtaking - too short of course....

While i'm typing The Winstons - Color Him Father comes on - and all of a sudden i'm undecided....

If I hear any (or all) of those 3 tomorrow night, I will sleep a happy man...:thumbsup: are you listening boys....

Cheers Girth

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So many mentioned already I could nominate - Margie Joseph, Darrell Banks, Don Gardner (Mr G), I could go for Donald Lee Richardson 'Lesson' but in an attempt to list one not already mentioned (it might of been but if so I have missed it!!)

'I'm In Love With You' - Bobby Patterson on (the more attractive) UK Action :smile:

Back in the day a few of us in 'boro loved this - but it did not fit at all between Wigan and the Mecca

Mike

And it's a George Jackson song, of course. I always loved it, having originally bought it for 'Married Lady'.

1970 was a good year for soul ...and it was right in the middle of that "crossover" period. Very convenient!

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Bang on there Gareth

Aretha awesome play this out all the time choppy crossover and then some

one of my all time fave crossover tunes

yes well ahead of its time back in the day (oops must not say that on ere )

Brooks and Jerry I Got What It takes

and Rufus Thomas Willy Nilly

Easy

Martyn

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We've had many threads on the definitions and semantics of the term. We have the fantastic media thread on the subject which continues to entertain and inform.

I thought I'd start a thread for people to nominate one record which they view as the ultimate embodiment of the genre.

I appreciate that these generic definitions are problematic and maybe unnecessary but hopefully this thread will give those who wonder what all the fuss is about an insight as to why fans of these records are so passionate about them.

It would be great if contributors could limit themselves to ONE record: that which is in their eyes the ultimate example of the term.

I'll start the ball rolling and nominate

RICHARD CAITON "I'D LIKE TO GET NEAR YOU" on UP TIGHT

I'll write a bit about exactly why I think it's the ultimate Crossover record a bit later, but I'm already looking forward to others' choices and am eager to see what, if any, consensus emerges.

There are no wrong answers.

Hi Gareth,

This thread is going to go for a while i think, all i can say is if people are still confused by all this crossover stuff do yourself a favour dip into the crossover soul refosoul thread and have a listen some great tunes in there and secondly... try and get hold of ..voices from the shadows issue no 16... it has a great article on crossover soul in it, i just dug mine out and had a little read great memories from 91.

Anyway i have listed below a few records which so far have not been mentioned and i think deserve to as they are some of the very early tunes in my world which gave crossover it's true meaning.

OLIVER BUSH - I'LL MAKE IT UP TO YOU

JO ARMSTEAD - THERE'S NOT TOO MANY MORE ( LEFT LIKE HIM)

JIMMY RICHARDS - ( I WON'T BE ) RESPONSIBLE

JIMMY DOTSON - I USED TO BE A LOSER

ELVIN SPENCER - LIFT THIS HURT

ED COOPER - DON'T LET LIFE GET YOU DOWN / JUST LIKE THE HERO

RICK THOMPSON - WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO

AL JOHNSON - LOVE WAITS FOR NO MAN

HERMAN HITSON - BETTER TO HAVE LOVED

ROZETTA JOHNSON - HOW CAN YOU LOSE SOMETHING YOU NEVER HAD

PRIMBROCK SKIGGS - THAT WAS YESTERDAY

OTIS CLAY - YOU HURT ME FOR THE LAST TIME

PURPLE MUNDI - STOP HURTING ME BABY

TOMMY TATE - I'M TAKING ON PAIN

GEORGE JACKSON - I'VE FOUND WHAT I WANTED

LIBERATION - LOVE LOOKS GOOD ON YOU

LUCKY JAMAL DAVIS - LOVE IS BETTER

DONALD WILSON- I'VE GOT TO GET MYSELF TOGETHER

VICKIE LABAT- GOT TO KEEP HANGING ON

NATE EVANS - MAIN SQUEEZE

I think if i heard any of the above i would know i was at a crossover do for sure.

But in the spirit of your thread you want one and i guess it has to be.....HERMAN HITSON - YOU CAN'T KEEP A GOOD MAN DOWN - SWEET ROSE ... it was close with your ultimate choice Richard caiton as that was for me such a Thorne record and Thorne will always be for me the birth of Crossover but Herman holds a special place in my heart.

Cheers

Andy

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I would agree none crossover IMO but William Cummings is as you say out and out Northern, so is the Ralph Graham I've seen mentioned.

Off top of me head without much thought my ultimate would probably be Chuck Cockerham - Have I Got A Right. Still got a tape or two of yours Cliff in the garage from the mid 80's with this on.

So major bo***ck dropped with William Cummings and I appear to have struck out with Coco & Ben and C Coulter (probably based on a real lack of depth of understanding of this ever puzzling musical style and increasingly blurred boundaries applicable to the spectrum), so are we talking:

2001 Black Essence - "Change in my life"

Wilson Love - "Funny money"

If not then I'm fu**edlaugh.gif

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Guest Brett F

Not certain, but has Nathan Williams- What Price - Lime been mentioned, what an amazing record, also Tony Borders - Promise To Myself- Quinvy, Brad Lundy - I Want To Share - Lundy, Al Christian - I'm A Lonely Man - Chant these 4 alongside the two i previously mentioned (F.J. Jones, Archie Hodge), and including Mr Caiton are amongst my personal favourites, but as rightly has been stated the list has so many jousting for a position on that high echelon .

Brett

Edited by Brett F
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Guest Brett F

can i have one more? rolleyes.gif

RAY FRAZIER - LONELINESS -

Brilliant shout, what a fantastic record, thankfully at the venues i attend, this would make the dance floor heave, a simply staggering selection, hats off Mr Wright. It's records like this that make me care less if i ever hear an up-tempo frenzied 60's record again.

Brett

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Guest Brett F

A few records that define Crossover Soul for me that, of course there are many more are -

NOLAN CHANCE - I'LL NEVER FORGET YOU (THOMAS)

DON GARDNER - YOUR LOVE IS DRIVING ME CRAZY (Mr G)

Cheers

Pat

Great choice's Pat, proves the point (well on Nolan Chance) that real top drawer quality crossover can be found cheaply, hopefully we will hear this at this years Essence hey Pat ...thumbsup.gif

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Would like to throw this one into the ring. A stunner, but over looked as it close to a stepper, but has all the ingredients. Touches of the 60's, although recorded 73, cool strings and brass, soulful backing singers and nice vocals, it's got the lot. Another one of those it's cheap so overlooked.

BOBBY WILSON - HERE IS WHERE THE LOVE IS - CHAIN -

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