Patti Jo - (Patti Jo + Barry Smith ?) - Merged Topic

[Guest BIG H]

Hi all, has anyone got and info on Patti Jo of 'Make Me Believe' and 'Aint No Love Lost' fame? Was this all she recorded, where was she from? Any info greatly appreciated

Regards

Harry

[Harrogatesoul]

Supposedly a teenager and originally from Nashville when she cut MMBIY. Other than that snippet (and I might be wrong!) I know nothing else. Fat lot of good I am! Just gleaned that from t'internet. Maybe Boba might have something as it being cut in Chicago??

Did see some Funk compilation with a track by a Patti Jo - Hard To Handle. Don't know if it's the same one though. Other than that I know of only the 2 45s you mention. Would be ncie to think there was more material somewhere!

Edited June 16, 2010 by harrogatesoul

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Supposedly a teenager and originally from Nashville when she cut MMBIY. Other than that snippet (and I might be wrong!) I know nothing else. Fat lot of good I am! Just gleaned that from t'internet. Maybe Boba might have something as it being cut in Chicago??

Did see some Funk compilation with a track by a Patti Jo - Hard To Handle. Don't know if it's the same one though. Other than that I know of only the 2 45s you mention. Would be ncie to think there was more material somewhere!

She was still living in Nashville about 10 years ago, when she had some new tracks out on a various artists compilation, and I assume that she's still there now...

There isn't any more material in the Scepter/Wand vaults - of that you may be 100% certain.

"Hard To Handle" is actually by Patti Drew, not Patti Jo...

[KevH]

The other side of "Aint no love lost" is a Curtis Mayfield track,"Stay away from me" which is absolutely fantastic.(Major Lance did do a version,which is a little insipid imho).Had it in my sales box for a while before i saw sense.

[Funky Si]

So how come there is an album mix of Patti Jo "Aint No Love Lost" (5:48 rather than the 3:18 single version)? Was that just done by Curtis to put on that disco gold album?

It is definitely a longer mix rather than an edit - all sorts of drum solos and a guitar solo of sorts that aren't on the single. Its also a little faster than the single mix.

Actually, I used to believe that Patti Jo didn't exist - just a speeded up version of Curtis himself, getting performers and writers royalties at the same time. The bongos and other high drums are almost too impossibly fast for a non-machine to play. But if you slow the single down, it is clearly a female voice - so I still think its a speeded up vocal.

As all the tracks are arranged by Rich Tufo and Written/Produced by Curtis Mayfield, was this Curtis trying out a new arranger on another label before letting him loose on Curtom? Also, might there be further tapes in the Curtom vaults?

[Steve G]

So how come there is an album mix of Patti Jo "Aint No Love Lost" (5:48 rather than the 3:18 single version)? Was that just done by Curtis to put on that disco gold album?

It is definitely a longer mix rather than an edit - all sorts of drum solos and a guitar solo of sorts that aren't on the single. Its also a little faster than the single mix.

Actually, I used to believe that Patti Jo didn't exist - just a speeded up version of Curtis himself, getting performers and writers royalties at the same time. The bongos and other high drums are almost too impossibly fast for a non-machine to play. But if you slow the single down, it is clearly a female voice - so I still think its a speeded up vocal.

As all the tracks are arranged by Rich Tufo and Written/Produced by Curtis Mayfield, was this Curtis trying out a new arranger on another label before letting him loose on Curtom? Also, might there be further tapes in the Curtom vaults?

Ive also got a great unissued Patti Jo side from those Scepter sessions. I also have a two page article on her with pics from an old "Black stars" magazine. One cool chick.

[Sebastian]

So how come there is an album mix of Patti Jo "Aint No Love Lost" (5:48 rather than the 3:18 single version)? Was that just done by Curtis to put on that disco gold album?

It is definitely a longer mix rather than an edit - all sorts of drum solos and a guitar solo of sorts that aren't on the single. Its also a little faster than the single mix.

The long versions of "Make Me Believe In You" and "Ain't No Love Lost" on the "Disco Gold" LP are re-edits made by Tom Moulton. He had access to the master tapes and the original 7" releases were most likely mixed down from longer recordings, so Moulton could re-arrange and speed the recordings up as he saw fit to make them more suitable for plays in disco clubs.

[Funky Si]

Cheers guys - it is a pleasure to be among such knowledgeable people. So there definitely are other recordings and masters somewhere.

Here's a refosoul clip of Stay Away From Me:

Patti Jo - Stay Away From Me - Sceptre

[Sebastian]

I just found a 2009 digital(/CD?) release by Patti Jo from the GUSTO label which features the four sides on her SCEPTER and WAND 45s as well as a fifth tune "When Something Is Wrong With My Baby" (the Sam & Dave track, I assume).

Has anyone of you heard that fifth tune? Is it perhaps the unissued tune that Steve mentioned above?

Or are they all new re-recordings?

Here's the itunes link:

https://ax.itunes.app...lay/id311666406

Edited June 16, 2010 by Sebastian

[Steve G]

I just found a 2009 digital(/CD?) release by Patti Jo from the GUSTO label which features the four sides on her SCEPTER and WAND 45s as well as a fifth tune "When Something Is Wrong With My Baby" (the Sam & Dave track, I assume).

Has anyone of you heard that fifth tune? Is it perhaps the unissued tune that Steve mentioned above?

Or are they all new re-recordings?

Here's the itunes link:

https://ax.itunes.app...lay/id311666406

My Patti Jo is a cracking little dancer "This is the price(I must pay)" in fact I don't really play it out enough. I'll see if I scan the article and pics on her some time in the next few days, if anyone is interested in seeing her,

Steve

[Funky Si]

I just found a 2009 digital(/CD?) release by Patti Jo from the GUSTO label which features the four sides on her SCEPTER and WAND 45s as well as a fifth tune "When Something Is Wrong With My Baby" (the Sam & Dave track, I assume).

Has anyone of you heard that fifth tune? Is it perhaps the unissued tune that Steve mentioned above?

Or are they all new re-recordings?

Here's the itunes link:

https://ax.itunes.app...lay/id311666406

The preview clips are (to my ears, anyway) the two Sceptre sides plus three later recordings, not the Rich Tufo arrangement or Curtis production!

[Sebastian]

My Patti Jo is a cracking little dancer "This is the price(I must pay)" in fact I don't really play it out enough. I'll see if I scan the article and pics on her some time in the next few days, if anyone is interested in seeing her,

If you get the chance/time to do that it would be great! I'd really like to see pictures of her and read any further information that might be found in that article.

Wouldn't mind hearing the unissued tune as well...

[Funky Si]

My Patti Jo is a cracking little dancer "This is the price(I must pay)" in fact I don't really play it out enough. I'll see if I scan the article and pics on her some time in the next few days, if anyone is interested in seeing her,

Steve

Definitely - yes please! Is your track from the same sessions? And do you have any idea whether there are other recordings hidden away?

Si

[Steve G]

Definitely - yes please! Is your track from the same sessions? And do you have any idea whether there are other recordings hidden away?

Si

Hi Si and Sebastian,

Yes same session, there is rumour, well very strong rumour in fact, she did an albums worth of material for Scepter so yes probably another 3-4 tracks out there somewhere.

I'll dig out the article over the weekend and try and scan it in here. Some great pics of her. Steve

[Sebastian]

Hi Si and Sebastian,

Yes same session, there is rumour, well very strong rumour in fact, she did an albums worth of material for Scepter so yes probably another 3-4 tracks out there somewhere.

I'll dig out the article over the weekend and try and scan it in here. Some great pics of her. Steve

That's great news, and I'd love to hear more stuff from her.

But it's a bit confusing that Tony wrote the following above:

"There isn't any more material in the Scepter/Wand vaults - of that you may be 100% certain."

Have the tapes gone missing?

[Steve G]

That's great news, and I'd love to hear more stuff from her.

But it's a bit confusing that Tony wrote the following above:

"There isn't any more material in the Scepter/Wand vaults - of that you may be 100% certain."

Have the tapes gone missing?

Probably then, as by now the Kent guys have been through eveything there is to go through when it comes to Scepter Wand........

and that is where acetates become important,

[Guest son of stan]

She was a teenaged Curtis Mayfield protege. "Make Me Believe in You" and, "Ain't No Love Lost" on Wand did very well on the early, proto-disco scene in New York. They are quite heavily referenced in the novel, "Dancer from The Dance" which came out at the time. They are both brilliant on 7" but the Tom Moulton mixes on, "Disco Gold" are absolutely out of this world. There was an earlier record on Scepter called, "Stay Away From Me" ....which I've never heard.

My understanding is that she was quite young when she made the two records on Wand and that after those, her parents - who didn't want her to get involved in the sleazey music industry, stepped in to prevent her making any more. I think it was Mel Cheren (who was head of A&R at Scepter/Wand when the records came out) who told me this.

BTW Melba Moore did a pretty good version of "Ain't No Love Lost" on one of her LPs.

Edited June 17, 2010 by son of stan

[boba]

As all the tracks are arranged by Rich Tufo and Written/Produced by Curtis Mayfield, was this Curtis trying out a new arranger on another label before letting him loose on Curtom? Also, might there be further tapes in the Curtom vaults?

When I asked Tufo why the New World record came out on Polydor instead of Curtom, he just told me that they were trying to work with as many different labels as possible to see what sort of effect it would have at the time. The Patti Jo seems similar.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Probably then, as by now the Kent guys have been through eveything there is to go through when it comes to Scepter Wand........

and that is where acetates become important,

There are a considerable number of missing S/W tapes that have been missing since long before King bought the catalogue, some years ago,

I wasn't saying that there are no more Patti Jo recordings, merely that there are no more recordings in the S/W vault. Having had extensive dealings with Curtom at the labels I worked with before Ace, I am also pretty sure that there are no more tapes in the Curtom inventory either.

Actually, there are still many unissued S/W tapes by some of the company's biggest artists. Getting off topic a bit, I know, but Alec Palao and I found nearly enough unissued Shirelles sides, on our most recent trip, to fill a CD. These will be coming out later this year, augmented with several issued sides that have yet to find their way onto CD.

[Harrogatesoul]

Great bits of info added here. Who needs Google/t'internet when you have the physical search engines of Tony Rounce & Steve G? Looking forward to seeing those articles Steve.

And yes Melba Moore does a pretty spiffing version of 'Ain't No love Lost' (On her Melba LP) which I'm pretty sure I have on 45 too.

[Sebastian]

There was an earlier record on Scepter called, "Stay Away From Me" ....which I've never heard.

She issued two 45s - one on Scepter in 1972 and one on Wand in 1973.

"Stay Away From Me" is the flipside to "Ain't No Love Lost":

Patti Jo - Ain't No Love Lost / Stay Away From Me - SCEPTER 12366

Patti Jo - Make Me Believe In You / Keep Me Warm - WAND 11255

"Keep Me Warm" isn't in refosoul, but the rest are.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

She issued two 45s - one on Scepter in 1972 and one on Wand in 1973.

"Stay Away From Me" is the flipside to "Ain't No Love Lost":

Patti Jo - Ain't No Love Lost / Stay Away From Me - SCEPTER 12366

Patti Jo - Make Me Believe In You / Keep Me Warm - WAND 11255

"Keep Me Warm" isn't in refosoul, but the rest are.

Should point out that "Keep Me Warm" was recorded in Memphis, and is not a Curtis Mayfield production.

This probably means that Patti Jo had a total of two sessions. The industry norm in the 70s was still to cut 4 songs in 3 hours, so that possibly (but not definitely) means she cut at least 8 sides.

Steve seems like he might have accounted for the 'missing' Curtom side with his acetate.

I seem to recall seeing MMBIY listed in Blues & Soul, prior to the Wand 45, as a new US release on Gemigo (catalogue # 1) - although I've never seen a record to bear that out. This would have been prior to the familiar run of Gemigo 45s that include Arnold Blair, the Notations, Chuck Ray etc...

Edited June 17, 2010 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

The other side of "Aint no love lost" is a Curtis Mayfield track,"Stay away from me" which is absolutely fantastic.(Major Lance did do a version,which is a little insipid imho).Had it in my sales box for a while before i saw sense.

...Major Lance 'a little insipid'?

That's tantamount to saying that Patti Jo is a better singer than Major. Which she patently is not.

Major's is the original. And the greatest. And on the same backing track, too.

You're on the wrong forum, Kev...

[Harrogatesoul]

I seem to recall seeing MMBIY listed in Blues & Soul, prior to the Wand 45, as a new US release on Gemigo (catalogue # 1) - although I've never seen a record to beat that out. This would have been prior to the familiar run of Gemigo 45s that include Arnold Blair, the Notations, Chuck Ray etc...

What a lovely thought that there could be a test / promo of Gemigo #1 of MMBIY. Highly doubtable in these days though. Actually would make a good thread - 45s issued a number but never released..

[Cover-up]

BTW Melba Moore did a pretty good version of "Ain't No Love Lost" on one of her LPs.

Melba Moore ALSO does a pretty good version of "Make Me Believe In You" - on her "This Is It" album.

[Guest son of stan]

She issued two 45s - one on Scepter in 1972 and one on Wand in 1973.

"Stay Away From Me" is the flipside to "Ain't No Love Lost":

Patti Jo - Ain't No Love Lost / Stay Away From Me - SCEPTER 12366

Patti Jo - Make Me Believe In You / Keep Me Warm - WAND 11255

"Keep Me Warm" isn't in refosoul, but the rest are.

Thanks. I haven't got Scepter 12366. The source of my confusion / misinformation was that Tim Brown / Martin Koppel price guide that came out in 2004. That lists it as, "Stay Away From Me" b/w "I Can Feel My Love Coming Down". I've alway thought that was a bit odd, obviously an error. .. At least I can stop looking for that release now!

[Funky Si]

Melba Moore ALSO does a pretty good version of "Make Me Believe In You" - on her "This Is It" album.

And of course there are the magnificent versions by Curtis himself of ANNLL on the Got To Find A Way album and MMBIY on Sweet Exorcist, both from 1974.

[KevH]

...Major Lance 'a little insipid'?

That's tantamount to saying that Patti Jo is a better singer than Major. Which she patently is not.

Major's is the original. And the greatest. And on the same backing track, too.

You're on the wrong forum, Kev...

You'll get me hung so you will Tony!!! Just played refo clip of Major Lance's version and stand by what i said,sorry.Its the echoey vocals.In my defence,i love the Major (don't want the Hose Street Gang on my back...),in particular "Dark and Lonely" ,"Without a doubt","Girls" on fact most of the Okeh stuff.Love "I never thought the day would come" and the Contempo one which i regret selling.

Sometimes i do wonder if i am on the right forum though Tony.

Sorry to be so far off topic....all the best Mr.Rounce.

Edited June 17, 2010 by KevH

[kevinsoulman]

i,m off to look for my copy of mmbiy i,m sure its the moulton mix on atlantic 12" can't re member the b side

kev

[Guest BIG H]

Cheers everyone,

Great bits of info added here. Who needs Google/t'internet when you have the physical search engines of Tony Rounce & Steve G? Looking forward to seeing those articles Steve.

Never a truer word spoken!

Regards

Harry

[kevinsoulman]

RESULT MY 12" IS NOT ON ATLANTIC BUT ON A LOOKALIKE A&R REWORKS LABEL, PATTI JO FIRST RIPPS SISTER REWORK , THEN CURTIS RIPPS BROTHER REWORK B/W NIGHT PEOPLE DAYTIME AND NIGHT TIME REWORKS IS THIS A 12" BOOT ? ALSO IS IT LEE DORSEY NO REFERENCE TO ORIGINAL ARTIST ?

KEV

Edited June 18, 2010 by kevinsoulman

[Guest son of stan]

RESULT MY 12" IS NOT ON ATLANTIC BUT ON A LOOKALIKE A&R REWORKS LABEL, PATTI JO FIRST RIPPS SISTER REWORK , THEN CURTIS RIPPS BROTHER REWORK B/W NIGHT PEOPLE DAYTIME AND NIGHT TIME REWORKS IS THIS A 12" BOOT ? ALSO IS IT LEE DORSEY NO REFERENCE TO ORIGINAL ARTIST ?

KEV

Sounds like a re-edit. When did you get it? There have been tons of them done over the years and loads and loads over the last 5 years or so.

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Sounds like a re-edit. When did you get it? There have been tons of them done over the years and loads and loads over the last 5 years or so.

Just a quick addition to this thread............"Make Me Believe In You" was reissued a few years [about 10 years probably come to think of it!] in its full disco mix[the same mix as on the Disco Gold lp] on a legal re`press from OST records[Original Sound Track] on a lovely loud pressing 12" for the deejays out there..... That original Lp can come off a bit quiet sometimes over a soundsystem so the 12" is a good shout....Its been booted several times as well as stated earlier.Has an ashley Beedle Re-Edit also on the flip i think..

Best, Ivor

[Steve G]

Steve seems like he might have accounted for the 'missing' Curtom side with his acetate.

It's a Scepter acetate Tony.

I've scanned the article, and sent it to my other email address. It's a long story but my scanner is connected to an old and very slow PC. tWill upload em onto here in the morning, the hard part has been done now, and the scane look good.

Steve

[Steve G]

Right here goes....note the Barry Smith connection.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Steve G

[Steve G]

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[Steve G]

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[Cover-up]

Steve, thanks so much for posting that up - great to find out some info on someone who was always just an enigma who'd released one of my favourite ever records.

Interesting to see the Melba Moore connection even back then - Patti Jo stepped into her shoes for a stage show. And Melba ended up covering songs Patti Jo had made her own...

[Sebastian]

Fantastic stuff, Steve! Big thanks for taking the time to put up those scans.

[Soul Shrews]

Fantastic stuff, Steve! Big thanks for taking the time to put up those scans.

.

Yes indeed.........................nice one Mr G !!!

Cheers Paul

[Funky Si]

Ta Steve - cheered up an otherwise crap day!

Is there any chance of putting up a clip of your acetate? That would be the event of the year for me!

Si

[Steve G]

Ta Steve - cheered up an otherwise crap day!

Is there any chance of putting up a clip of your acetate? That would be the event of the year for me!

Si

Thanks everyone

Si I don't know how to do uploads of sounds, I still got people asking me for the Tommy Tate ABC 45. I am a bit of a technophobe in that dept....It's like an Invictus dancer though - excellent.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Steve G

[Guest palang]

Informative post, thanks for posting up the scans Steve.

Always like her version of "Stay Away From Me" with those slightly delayed hand claps!

That acetate needs to be heard to a wider audience...

cheers

palang

[John Benson]

Cheers Steve - very interesting reading... did anyone get to know her second name by the way?

I don't think it's mentioned in the article...

Re the Barry Smith 'connection' - are you thinking of the Barry Smith on Shane & GSF, or is there another one?

[nsoul2]

She was a teenaged Curtis Mayfield protege. "Make Me Believe in You" and, "Ain't No Love Lost" on Wand did very well on the early, proto-disco scene in New York. They are quite heavily referenced in the novel, "Dancer from The Dance" which came out at the time. They are both brilliant on 7" but the Tom Moulton mixes on, "Disco Gold" are absolutely out of this world. There was an earlier record on Scepter called, "Stay Away From Me" ....which I've never heard.

My understanding is that she was quite young when she made the two records on Wand and that after those, her parents - who didn't want her to get involved in the sleazey music industry, stepped in to prevent her making any more. I think it was Mel Cheren (who was head of A&R at Scepter/Wand when the records came out) who told me this.

BTW Melba Moore did a pretty good version of "Ain't No Love Lost" on one of her LPs.

"Dancer from the Dance" surfacing in a Soul Source forum. Always interesting where these threads lead. Prompted me to order a copy on Amazon having first read it 30 years ago.

"Make Me Believe In You" can also be found on a 2 cd compilation "Soul Diva Sessions" available online ,and great for playing in the car.

[Steve G]

Yipee!

Just done my first ever upload to refosoul and it seems to work.

A clip of Patti Jo "This is the price" Scepter (1975/6). As I said a nice Invictus / crossovery feel to this one. Not as funky as MMBIY but See what ya think.

I have played it at Yarmouth a few times but not recently

Steve

[John Benson]

Nice one Steve - Well done too !!

Patti Jo - This is the price I must pay -

[Guest son of stan]

Seems my (pubcentric) info was entirely incorrect. Interesting. Thanks a lot people.

"Dancer from the Dance" ain't a very good read. But my gay friends swear by it. Also, they go on about the much ref-ed, "Waiting

For the Rain" Fantatastic Johnny C - better side to, "Don't Depend On Me" imho......