Children At Allnighters

[Brent]

I think that I may have misunderstood what was being discussed here, I thought that the topic was about children at all nighters, A child to me is under 13 years of age, teenagers have their own minds & they usually know what they like & dislike musically or fashion wise. So as far as this topic goes they make up their own minds in which direction to go whether it is the latest musical craze or any other musical genre that has passed before including soul music. So if a teenager attends a nighter I'm fine with that as long as they're not getting drunk & being sick everywhere & not annoying anybody, as I said previously were all young once & by 13 years of age I had decided which music I liked. So if parents feel comfortable with their teenage off springs with them (Which I'm Not as mine wouldn't be the slightest bit interested) & they are genuinely interested in soul music & not there to annoy other soulies then I'm quite happy for them to attend, so having said all that could the author of this topic Imberboy please tell me if he means children under 13 or teenagers under 18's as I believe there is a difference well at least there was when I was a teenager.

Hi Troid

What a good question to ask.... But I think you,ll find there is only one answer that wil fit Imberboys agenda.

I asked why would anyone start a thread .. that could only end up identifying one or two teenagers? I never did get an answer ?

How could he not have been targetting anyone else???

Lets be honest, how many actual youngsters could he talking about?

Not hyperthetical or imaginary ones . ........ TWO ......... LOTTIE ... and his main target ......... ETHAN

But, his wording is so vague, as to set the scene that there has been a plague of toddlers or soon will be ?

I will point out his original post in the PROMOTERS THREAD on 3rd of August ...... where he speaks of having got of the phone after discussing the matter.

On the 4th August with no one really taking any notice. he posts the lonely imoticon and then gets a reply that supports yougsters ....

Not satisfied with that he posts a poll asking people to choose sides. with an open question with no right or wrong answer . ??

Then stirs up emotion with inflamatory comments about refusing to go if Children are there. Never once answering the question of his definition of " Children " IMO If he did then it would ruin the image of a dancefloor full of nappies... that none of us ...including me wants.

Not satisfied with the response by the promoter of New Century ( see page 2 of this thread )..... and his target been identified... He went off forum Approached the promoter at the venue complaining about Ethans presence obviously within earshot of venue management. Who later put pressure on the promoter to ask Ethan not to attend.

I was present at the venue, and at no time did imberboy take the that chance to speak to me in person ?

Please Imberboy are you prepared to answer the questions that have been asked of you.... in this thread that you started.?

But most of all will you answer the question " Why resort to technically snitching on Ethan to the venue owners" instead of having a word With Me ???

What did you have to gain?

Could it have had something to do with a promoter friend of yours, Planning an all nighter on the same Date as the Horwich all nighter........ that I was helping to promote ?

I eagerly await your replies to these and the other questions that you have tactically avoided.

And for your information .......... The Horwich all nighter play list .... may include ...... BABY BOY Fred hughes .... or Danny Whites version of Leave My Son at Home on Atlas any more requests anyone ? lol

[ImberBoy]

Brent

If you have a burning question for me or if you want to get some thing off your chest then give me a bell: My Mobile number is 07877333236 and my land line is 0114 2838923

There is no agenda, there is no conspiracy, I know this all sound a bit boring and no doubt kinda hard not to think of it as personal but you don't know me and I don't know you, you do the odd weekender but you are not a nighter go'er, yup your at your local nighter for a few ours and then you go home.

You have no respect for me a regular allnighter go'er other wise you'd say yup and stick to the soul nights or weekenders.

I will not go to any allnighter that allows children in full stop, that is my choice and some thing I said at the top of this thread.

Soul Source threads, like this one, quite soon run out of steam and then die a natural death but before this happens there are usually, not always, blood curdling threats so I will leave you with this thought.

I have nothing more to say on this matter, I respect you and your son but I have never backed away from any one in my life and I do not and will not hide.

If you feel the need to come and dazzle me with your ninja skills then come on, I live at 15 Crane Moor Nook, Crane Moor, Sheffield, S357AN and I will be at the Barnsley Allnighter on Saturday.

It's got a massive car park and you can if you wish drag me into it and show me the error of my ways.

In the mean time here is a picture of a haddock

[Philt]

this ain't necessarily gonna help but then 'the law' rarely does in my experience, open as it is to intepretation and dependant as it is, in so many respects, on context. A child (insofar as 'child protection' is concerned) is U18.

As I say, it isn't black and white by any means as you encounter different thresholds and benchmarks in caselaw (u13, u16) with regards the issue of 'competence'; again, depends on context more often than not. Ultimately, there are some things that the law says are never ok and infinitely more where folk have to exercise their judgement as adults and parents; these will be underpinned, inevitably, by knowledge and a weighing up of the individuals and any [potential] risks involved.You then make your choice and take your chance.

Personally, I don't think it's that big an issue in terms of nighters being overrun with little uns. However, I wouldn't want to see kids at em myself, for many of the reasons already stated here. Soul nights / all-dayers? I think that depends who, when, where, why etc etc etc.

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, if I was even considering taking one of mine to an event I'd want to be dead clear about the following:

- I'm not gonna come unstuck legally or cause anyone else to am I?

- is it safe for them and everyone else who is attending? How do I know / how can I ensure that it is?

- Whose needs are being met by them attending?

Cheers

Phil

Edited August 11, 2010 by PhilT

[Brent]

Simon .

Thanks for the vailed threats .... From your answer ...... I take it you are not prepared to give your reason for approaching the venue management ?

And if you were expecting me to try and make you look a cnut .... as in your reply to Triode ...... I assure you that you did

a perfect job of that yourself when you approached the management with your petty selfish moan.

Regards Brent.

Edited August 11, 2010 by brent

[aintgotit]

I went to my first allnighter at fifteen , and probably caused a similar amount of tutting among some miserable older heads,back then as ive later read about " lettin kids in" an all that shite which i took at the time i read it to mean, i wasnt a real soul music fan like them, my time at allnighters wasnt as valid as theirs, or i just didnt belong to that knowledgable ,wise and esoteric set , id have been shunned by right thinking folk who wouldnt give my sort the time of day. Yet as time has passed and i ve actually heard tales about the torch and the wheel , the ages of those who went for the first time, seem to pretty much start from right in the middle of puberty , about the age i was. While lads my age were making hollow boasts about which pubs they got into on a friday night , who they were scrappin with at elland rd on a saturday and which older birds they,d shagged on sunday night, i dreamed about gettin a pale blue membership card through the post, gettin on a bus with a few older lads to blend in with, an gettin up the stairs and havin a look over the balcony on station road, The first chance i got , i grabbed it with both hands , made up a story about stayin at me mates, ( who didnt have a phone,) trying to set off as late as i could without makin it obvious i had to be somewhere at a certain time,sneakin a bag out with a spare fred perry and a towel and some socks. This was quite unbelievably foolish yet compared with six months earlier , when i was cryin off goin to badminton with me dad an step mum on a thursday pretendin to watch top of the pops when in actual fact i was stealin his home brew wine and shagging my baby sitter, i knew i wanted to at least try to get on the dancefloor and if i got turned away or the bus got stopped and i was discovered , id probably have ruined everyones night . But nobody said fuck off back to the youth club you little shit we dont want you ruinin our night, because they all had similar memories sharly focussed in the only recent past , so a conspiratorial silence held over the subject of my suitability to mix with grown ups, because in truth , none of us were. If it makes uncomfortable reading that someone speaks up and says , look i think this age or that age is incompatible with an adult setting populated by adults , listening to adult themes in music and other theme specific topics,its a brave thing to say nonetheless. Do i agree with the majority, do i fucking hellers like. because even if there had been a poll on the pavement before i boarded the minibus on my first visit , id have fought any of the fuckers for my right to take my seat pay my money and have my night out . without beer , without trying to mythologise my mascuinity, or have some jumped up twat try and take my dream away from me. To me my desire was a positve decision , a milestone in my development , a choice i have never regretted, and the gateway to a unique set of experiences i am grateful for having. I came to believe my principals were almost universal among other music fans and lovers of soul music, i was wrong about that , and if you ahppen not to agree with me now, then fuck you, your feelings are not my problem.

[macca]

This thread has taken a nasty, accusatory turn with threats and offering 'people outside'. The question 'should kids be allowed into all-nighters?', I think, is a valid one and has ellicited a lot of responses from folk both for and against. I just think Imber and Brent should air their differences privately. It looks ugly. Que haya paz!!

[macca]

I went to my first allnighter at fifteen , and probably caused a similar amount of tutting among some miserable older heads,back then as ive later read about " lettin kids in" an all that shite which i took at the time i read it to mean, i wasnt a real soul music fan like them, my time at allnighters wasnt as valid as theirs, or i just didnt belong to that knowledgable ,wise and esoteric set , id have been shunned by right thinking folk who wouldnt give my sort the time of day. Yet as time has passed and i ve actually heard tales about the torch and the wheel , the ages of those who went for the first time, seem to pretty much start from right in the middle of puberty , about the age i was. While lads my age were making hollow boasts about which pubs they got into on a friday night , who they were scrappin with at elland rd on a saturday and which older birds they,d shagged on sunday night, i dreamed about gettin a pale blue membership card through the post, gettin on a bus with a few older lads to blend in with, an gettin up the stairs and havin a look over the balcony on station road, The first chance i got , i grabbed it with both hands , made up a story about stayin at me mates, ( who didnt have a phone,) trying to set off as late as i could without makin it obvious i had to be somewhere at a certain time,sneakin a bag out with a spare fred perry and a towel and some socks. This was quite unbelievably foolish yet compared with six months earlier , when i was cryin off goin to badminton with me dad an step mum on a thursday pretendin to watch top of the pops when in actual fact i was stealin his home brew wine and shagging my baby sitter, i knew i wanted to at least try to get on the dancefloor and if i got turned away or the bus got stopped and i was discovered , id probably have ruined everyones night . But nobody said fuck off back to the youth club you little shit we dont want you ruinin our night, because they all had similar memories sharly focussed in the only recent past , so a conspiratorial silence held over the subject of my suitability to mix with grown ups, because in truth , none of us were. If it makes uncomfortable reading that someone speaks up and says , look i think this age or that age is incompatible with an adult setting populated by adults , listening to adult themes in music and other theme specific topics,its a brave thing to say nonetheless. Do i agree with the majority, do i fucking hellers like. because even if there had been a poll on the pavement before i boarded the minibus on my first visit , id have fought any of the fuckers for my right to take my seat pay my money and have my night out . without beer , without trying to mythologise my mascuinity, or have some jumped up twat try and take my dream away from me. To me my desire was a positve decision , a milestone in my development , a choice i have never regretted, and the gateway to a unique set of experiences i am grateful for having. I came to believe my principals were almost universal among other music fans and lovers of soul music, i was wrong about that , and if you ahppen not to agree with me now, then fuck you, your feelings are not my problem.

Yes, but events 35 years ago weren't attended by people well past middle age, were they?

I went through exactly the same 'rites of passage' as you and thousands of others, but

we weren't accompanied by anyone other than our own peer group, were we?

If I'd have walked into the Wirrina with my uncle Lance (not necessarily my mum or dad),

he'd have taken one look at all the 'startled rabbits' and decided it wasn't the place for a 14

year old to be. Another context: in 1971 at the age of 11, wearing my sister's ben sherman

and my kid's levis and monkey boots, I followed a bunch of skins into my local pub.

The landlord, on seeing me, burst out laughing and shouted to his also amused/bemused patrons

'we'll be letting prams in next!', urging me to bugger off back to the 'rec' where I belonged.

I think he was right. In Spain this problem doesn't exist of course as punters are a generation

younger, at least and might well resent the presence of so many 'old duffers' from England's shores.

[KevH]

Not bothered if Simon has an agenda or not.

But i made the point of age differences betweeen now (13 - 60) and BITD (13 - 25) some time back on this thread.For me that's the crux of the matter.Most older folks don't want young uns at soul venues.

Go where you fit in ,musically and socially.

[Guest]

I'll pose a question then

Has anyone that's met the two under 18's in question, at a soul do, felt the need to ask them to not attend again? Or to ask the management to refuse them entry next time?

I'm really confused now Simon, because each time you've come across Lottie you've never made any indication to me or anyone else that you didn't feel comfortable with her being there.

Now I feel as though I'm being targeted along with Ethan's Pappy in that our young soul fans aren't welcome. I hope it's not you that's called the management; you will have gone right down in my estimation if you have

You'd best keep an eye on my facebook to see if I'm taking Lottie anywhere so you know not to attend

Edited August 11, 2010 by TheSoulgirl

[Guest]

Troid, I'd have to go with under eighteens mate.

I just want to be able to get away from the dustbin lids every now and again, not asking too much am I?

The allnighters aren't exactly every week and its not as if I am depriving the little ones or their parents from enjoying soul music, there are oodles of local soul nights on that I am sure don't mind kiddies in.

Can I ask, are you a regular allnighter go'er? If you are then you will know me surely? If not then what's the problem if nighters don't affect you?

I'm going around in circles now, all I want is one or two fookin nights out with the grownups, its not as if I am asking for much? I just want the last bastion of our soul scene to not become a divvy fookin pastiche.

147 votes [93.04%] kinda tells a story but some of you are fibbing a little as you don't regularly attend allnighters there for there aint too fookin much for you to loose is there?

Any way Troid I'm sure your going to dazzle us all with a list of allnighters you attend and make me look a right cnut.

Ooh by the way I'm at Barnsley on Saturday if any one wants to come and have a pop, I'll be wearing shorts, usually do and I'll be on the dance floor. All I ask is that you let me finish my dance first.

I don't do wingers, whiners or wankers.

Ouch, that insult hurt.... and... because you are one?

[Gold Band]

Troid, I'd have to go with under eighteens mate.

I just want to be able to get away from the dustbin lids every now and again, not asking too much am I?

The allnighters aren't exactly every week and its not as if I am depriving the little ones or their parents from enjoying soul music, there are oodles of local soul nights on that I am sure don't mind kiddies in.

Can I ask, are you a regular allnighter go'er? If you are then you will know me surely? If not then what's the problem if nighters don't affect you?

I'm going around in circles now, all I want is one or two fookin nights out with the grownups, its not as if I am asking for much? I just want the last bastion of our soul scene to not become a divvy fookin pastiche.

147 votes [93.04%] kinda tells a story but some of you are fibbing a little as you don't regularly attend allnighters there for there aint too fookin much for you to loose is there?

Any way Troid I'm sure your going to dazzle us all with a list of allnighters you attend and make me look a right cnut.

Ooh by the way I'm at Barnsley on Saturday if any one wants to come and have a pop, I'll be wearing shorts, usually do and I'll be on the dance floor. All I ask is that you let me finish my dance first.

I don't do wingers, whiners or wankers.

Well Simon is picking on the ladies an army thing to do? You started off your reply so nicely that I thought that I would give the decency of a reply. By the way Troid is a play on the words with the label, it stands for totally real over indulgent dancer as some may say I'm a little on the (well I've got a bit to hang onto shall we say) the last nighter I attended was Time in Derby sadly closed now. Me & my other half do like to attend one or two venues abroad for the variety of music & yes we do like our local venues (not nighters) but if that makes us sad so be it as I explained earlier our youngest is only 9. (My husband thinks that one of his golf clubs maybe a three wood may do the trick) but I have told him to grow up & act responsibly it seems decidedly silly to fall out over a topic of conversation on soulsource especially when its over such a trivial matter. Anyway I know that you've got a big heart really but I also Know that real men are a pain in the asre so I will forgive your indiscretions on this occasion & if I give you a pop it maybe of the orange variety & contained within a drinking vessel. Oh & finally as a woman I'm entitled to the last word !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest proudlove]

Not bothered if Simon has an agenda or not.

But i made the point of age differences betweeen now (13 - 60) and BITD (13 - 25) some time back on this thread.For me that's the crux of the matter.Most older folks don't want young uns at soul venues.

Go where you fit in ,musically and socially.

I don't know where people get the "back in the day 13 year olds at all nighters"...............................apart from the odd ,and I mean odd, youngster then back in the day ,(what a f$%%^in horrible phrase) a 13 year old would not have got through the door.of ANY club.....FACT.

If you are talking about the Wigan youth club.........which it was in its mid and latter stages then maybe..............anything else is total bollocks.

As for Ethan at a nighter.......................He is that odd youngster.

The really sad thing about this thread is that I know Brent,I know Ethan,I know Simon ..............and they are all lovely people..........FFS take a chill pill everyone,don't fall out,lifes too short.

If people want to meet up and sort differences out...................then come down to ours..........i will be the mediator................................and buy the beer,but not for Ethan .........he's too young!!!!

[aintgotit]

Not bothered if Simon has an agenda or not.

But i made the point of age differences betweeen now (13 - 60) and BITD (13 - 25) some time back on this thread.For me that's the crux of the matter.Most older folks don't want young uns at soul venues.

Go where you fit in ,musically and socially.

well aint it wonderful so show such wisdom. most old uns arent the ones dancin, their mostly complainin, and whilst the youngsters ,ll happilly move their feet the old guard , slide , ever so silently into a baleful decrepitude.i was too young then , and im still too young to listen or give a shit. . we all go sometime , and thats where we all fit in.till then you can moan an mourn, , ill still be there in the morn. if its all the same to you baby.

[ImberBoy]

I don't know where people get the "back in the day 13 year olds at all nighters"...............................apart from the odd ,and I mean odd, youngster then back in the day ,(what a f$%%^in horrible phrase) a 13 year old would not have got through the door.of ANY club.....FACT.

If you are talking about the Wigan youth club.........which it was in its mid and latter stages then maybe..............anything else is total bollocks.

As for Ethan at a nighter.......................He is that odd youngster.

The really sad thing about this thread is that I know Brent,I know Ethan,I know Simon ..............and they are all lovely people..........FFS take a chill pill everyone,don't fall out,lifes too short.

If people want to meet up and sort differences out...................then come down to ours..........i will be the mediator................................and buy the beer,but not for Ethan .........he's too young!!!!

Yup we are all getting our knickers in a twist, sorry Brent if I was a lite too aggrsive.

I should know better and for the ladies , Karen not sure how I have offended you??????

Troid, thought u was a geezer, soz