Boots Deserve A Bad Press(ing)?

[Simsy]

Does seem that even owning a few pressings/boots these days can mean you're a bit of a soulful leper.

All agreed originals played at credible do's, or where the door tax is in excess of four quid perhaps. And when collecting, original vinyl is what we strive for, or otherwise you end up with a collection full of crap.

But just reached to the back and pulled out a bunch of so called old crap and what beautiful old crap it is. I ain't parting with any of em, not ashamed of any ot them, had them year's and a 45 - 7" pressing still has more honesty and dignity to me than an mp3 (imvho).

Sunday pm boot clutch spins;

Frank Dell - He broke your game wide open - VALISE

Soul Twins - Quick change artist - GRAPEVINE

Sam Williams - Love slipped through my fingers - GRAPEVINE

Sam & Kitty - I've got something good - FOUR BROTHERS

Eddie & Ernie - I can't do it - EASTERN

Cashmeres - Showstopper - SOUL CITY

Johnny Caswell - You don't love me anymore - KENT

Betty Wright - Shoo-Rah! Shoo-Rah! - RCA

Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes - Get out (and let me cry) - ROUTE

Jerry Williams - If you ask me (Because I love you) - PYE

Tamangoes - I really love you - (GRAPEVINE)

Dean Courtney/Carstairs - I'll always need you/ It really hurts me girl - FOX RECORDS

B J Thomas - I don't have a mind of my own - PACEMAKER

[Guest]

More than half of those are legal reissues

[Simsy]

More than half of those are legal reissues

link

For sure, don't mind a bit of 'vinyl nit picking'.

So it's over to you dude for the concise definition of the following;

Pressing ...

Re issue ...

Bootleg ...

Acetate ...

Promo ...

Demo ...

Original ...

[Geordiejohnson]

I think the boot term has taken change

isnt it White lable acetates these days

God help us all

Hey the grapevine releases were legit and good recording quality & are now collectable wasnt the tomangoes the one that did/didnt get released for one reason or another and there are limited quantities in circulation or was it the delites?? cant remember now grey matters not what it was

Geeooooordie

[Simsy]

I think the boot term has taken change

isnt it White lable acetates these days      

God help us all

Hey the grapevine releases were legit and good recording quality & are now collectable wasnt the tomangoes the one that did/didnt get released for one reason or another and there are limited quantities in circulation or was it the delites?? cant remember now grey matters not what it was

Geeooooordie

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Doesn't really matter that much does it? Difference between a pressing or a boot.

Pressing/Re-issue :graynone:

[Geordiejohnson]

Doesn't really matter that much does it? Difference between a pressing or a boot.

Pressing/Re-issue :graynone:

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For gods sake lighten

[Simsy]

For gods sake lighten 

link

no hang on a minute

[Simsy]

Hey the grapevine releases were legit

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How many DJ's would play a Grapevine record at a do that had (say) more than 100 people in attendance that had paid £5 or more to get in?

[Geordiejohnson]

How many DJ's would play a Grapevine record at a do that had (say) more than 100 people in attendance that had paid £5 or more to get in?

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Me Betty Boo

It is the 1st original release if im not mistaken

[Simsy]

Me Betty Boo

It is the 1st original release if im not mistaken

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Only one one Grapevine?

[Geordiejohnson]

Only one one Grapevine?

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Well you did say "play "A" grapvine record"

anyway havn't got enough fingers to count how many times this topic has been pondered over,

[Simsy]

Anyway, without getting carried away with Grapevine.

It's going to be interesting to see how many proud owners of pressings are bold enough to admit to their ownership

Come on lepers Ahhg, I've trodden in something, tut, it's a pressing

[Simsy]

havn't got enough fingers to count how many times this topic has been pondered over,

link

Now wait just a cotton pickin minute The question is what level (if any) of shame is there attached to actually owning pressings/boots etc these days?

Show me where that question has been asked before.

[pikeys dog]

No shame in owning Grapevine 45s... nearly got a full set myself.... wouldn't play them out of the house though...

[Simsy]

Rubber stamped dignity for Grapevine then, the guru will be pleased.

STARDUST

[pikeys dog]

who's the Guru?

Or is that a bit like asking 'Who are they?'

[Simsy]

who's the Guru?

Or is that a bit like asking 'Who are they?'

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Jon Anderson.

[pikeys dog]

thought that was the miserable Scothch git?

Maybe I'm mistaken.

[Simsy]

thought that was the miserable Scothch git?

Maybe I'm mistaken.

link

We had a long arsed debate a while back about the # 1 soul guru.

Will se if I can find it ...

[Simsy]

>>NS #1 GURU<<

[pikeys dog]

Ah yes vaguely remember it now.

[Simsy]

Ah yes vaguely remember it now.

link

Yes.

Anyway 173 views, 20 replies and still no pressing pride ...

[Guest rachel]

Does seem that even owning a few pressings/boots these days can mean you're a bit of a soulful leper.

All agreed originals played at credible do's, or where the door tax is in excess of four quid perhaps.  And when collecting, original vinyl is what we strive for, or otherwise you end up with a collection full of crap.

But just reached to the back and pulled out a bunch of so called old crap and what beautiful old crap it is.  I ain't parting with any of em, not ashamed of any ot them, had them year's and a 45 - 7" pressing still has more honesty and dignity to me than an mp3 (imvho).

Sunday pm boot clutch spins;

Frank Dell - He broke your game wide open - VALISE

Soul Twins - Quick change artist - GRAPEVINE

Sam Williams - Love slipped through my fingers - GRAPEVINE

Sam & Kitty - I've got something good - FOUR BROTHERS

Eddie & Ernie - I can't do it - EASTERN

Cashmeres - Showstopper - SOUL CITY

Johnny Caswell - You don't love me anymore - KENT

Betty Wright - Shoo-Rah! Shoo-Rah! - RCA

Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes - Get out (and let me cry) - ROUTE

Jerry Williams - If you ask me (Because I love you) - PYE

Tamangoes - I really love you - (GRAPEVINE)

Dean Courtney/Carstairs - I'll always need you/ It really hurts me girl - FOX RECORDS

B J Thomas - I don't have a mind of my own - PACEMAKER

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I've still got a few, kept for sentimental reasons I suppose...

Melba Moore/ The Honeybees on Fabulus

Gerri Grainger/ Reparata & the Delrons on Casino Classics

.. and a few others just because I've never managed to get rid of them

Wouldn't play them anywhere though

[Russoul1]

Yes.

Anyway 173 views, 20 replies and still no pressing pride ...

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over the last year have been selling off alot of pressings,boots,re-issues which i brought as a teenager in the late 70,s i still have a few i wouldnt part with

DEL LARKS - JOB OPENING (blue white) QUEEN CITY

RUBIN PARKER - YOURVE BEEN AWAY - RITA

DELITES - LOVER - DESTINY PROMO

[Simsy]

I've still got a few, kept for sentimental reasons I suppose... 

.. and a few others just because I've never managed to get rid of them 

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Wow! Thanks Rach

Kind of confirms my thinking. I'm trying to think of the last pressing I bought

Perhaps it is something 'the new collector' does?

So erm lastly, have you stood over the bin and tossed northern soul records into it because they are not originals?

[Simsy]

over the last year have been selling off alot of pressings,boots,re-issues which i brought as a teenager in the late 70,s i still have a few i wouldnt part with

DEL LARKS - JOB OPENING (blue white) QUEEN CITY

RUBIN PARKER - YOURVE BEEN AWAY - RITA

DELITES - LOVER - DESTINY PROMO

link

Interesting to see the vinyl snobbery emerging.

Mind how you go with crap clearance, what did that Pyramid boot go for on ebay - £90? Onetrout wunnit?

[Guest rachel]

Wow! Thanks Rach

Kind of confirms my thinking.  I'm trying to think of the last pressing I bought

Perhaps it is something 'the new collector' does?

So erm lastly, have you stood over the bin and tossed northern soul records into it because they are not originals?

link

Yeah a 'new collector' thing for me (though did always buy originals when I could), can't remember when but the original-only thing suddenly made sense at some point

Never thrown a record out - have sold some reissues for a considerable profit... and the ones I can't get rid of, well, they can just sit at the back of the box

[Russoul1]

Interesting to see the vinyl snobbery emerging.

Mind how you go with crap clearance, what did that Pyramid boot go for on ebay - £90?  Onetrout wunnit?

link

im no snob just wont part with them n a few others.

have been selling on a regular basis what i dont want anymore theres always

someone who wants them! wot does make me laugh is that people dont haggle

on the price!

[Dave]

Now wait just a cotton pickin minute The question is what level (if any) of shame is there attached to actually owning pressings/boots etc these days?

Show me where that question has been asked before.

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Why on earth should there be any "shame" in owning anything?

Its a matter of personal choice....no more, no less.

As for what you play out, thats a different matter... the wishes of the promoter enter the calculation.

[Russoul1]

Why on earth should there be any "shame" in owning anything?

Its a matter of personal choice....no more, no less.

As for what you play out, thats a different matter... the wishes of the promoter enter the calculation.

link

your totally right Dave ... ITS A MATTER OF PERSONAL CHOICE

but i wouldnt play them out when djn even though some are rare in

there own right.

RUSS

[Simsy]

Why on earth should there be any "shame" in owning anything?

Its a matter of personal choice....no more, no less.

As for what you play out, thats a different matter... the wishes of the promoter enter the calculation.

link

Phew, thanks Dave contemplating Ebaying boots there for a mo

Remebered last pressing I bout - Volumes - ain't gonna give you up. Can't find it anywhere Has Dr Truelove on flip, which I was gonna buy an original of from either Butch or Shifty, (can't remember). But was advised against it as he wanted I think £75 at the time and that was deemed too much.

Maybe general consensus is not too many which is fair enough. But things like Melvin Moore (modern wer ho!) and Ray Merrell, should be held on to

[Simsy]

CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE LAST TIME WE ALL AGREE THAT NO ONE WOULD SHOULD OR COULD PLAY A PRESSING OUT (venue size/locale dependant)

[Guest andycambs]

Grapevine Boots

How about Shirley Lawson on Soul City, no embarresment in playing this out surely? and a legit UK release!!

Andy

[Guest]

OK-

To issue a Northern 45 a company (or whoever) has to have paperwork to say they have permission from the owner of a recording to make copies of a record or to issue it on a CD. This "permission" can be a grey area because in the cases of a LOT of Northern tracks the ownership is often lost in the midst of time along with the relevant paperwork but in simple terms if this paperwork exists and you have the owner of the recording's permission (in the form of paperwork) you can press a record. It not simple either - there are terms within that and because just because a record came out on a label originally it doesn't mean that company still exists or (even if it does) it still has ownership of the recording - it could well have been licenced from another, smaller label or production company in the first place. Simon Sousann (for instance) it seems was given the right to issue Mirwood from the labels owner, Randy Wood although it falls into the 'grey' area apparently. Ace now claim legal ownership to use the catalogue.

Therefore a Bootleg is something that doesn't have this permission and is in effect stolen or if you like, pirated or fake.

The Grapevine 45's are all legal, as are the Pye 45 mentioned. Grapevine was associated (and distributed by I think) with RCA so were a totally legit company.

Pye had deals with Calla and Roulette for instance which explains why the Disco Demand series is larely made up from records from the catalogues of those two labels.

A company like Sony or Universal will not just give permission (which is in effect, the right to use a recording for a limited time or amount) to anyone.

A reissue is quite simply a later issue of an existing record.

I never really understood what a pressing was.

The term 'demo' is misleading. We use the word 'demo' for promotion copies, but a demo strictly speaking is a copy (possibly an acetate) of something that is maybe intended for release, or so the relevant parties can hear it so further work can be done in the studio - or possibly for songwriting purposes. A promo is a finished recording sent out for promotion purposes.

An original therefore is the first legal, publically available issue of a 45- a lot of tracks which are being lumped in with bootlegs and reissues are in fact first issue 45's.

The 'manifesto' columns I've been doing for 18 months try and bring some of these to light. Some just can't seem to get their heads around this and choose to ignore legal, UK only issues of important Northern Soul and Soul records as if they are bootlegs or reissues. For something to be classed as a reissue it has to have been issued once in the first place! For instance who has an original 7" of J.J. Barnes 'Sweet Sherry" or an original of Betty Boo "Say It Isn't So" (as geordiejohnson says) or Marvin Gaye "Need Someone" or Peggy Scott "You Got It All" or Archie Bell's "Harder and Harder" or Jefree's "Love Loan" ? But look up most J.J. Barnes discographies and 'Sweet Sherry" apparently doesn't exist on 45.

I've got a headache now.

(And I've just tidied it up a bit.)

Edited September 11, 2005 by Simon White

[Simsy]

Grapevine Boots

How about Shirley Lawson on Soul City, no embarresment in playing this out surely? and a legit UK release!!

Andy

link

Shaky ground there I'd say mate.

[Simsy]

OK-

To issue a Northern 45 a company (or whoever) has to have paperwork to say they have permission from the owner of a recording to make copies of a record or to issue it on a CD. This "permission" can be a grey area because in the cases of a LOT of Northern tracks the ownership is often lost in the midst of time along with the relevant paperwork but in simple terms if this paperwork exists and you have the owner of the recording's permission (in the form of paperwork) you can press a record. It not simple either - there are terms within that and because just because a record came out on a label originally it doesn't mean that company still exists or (even if it does) it still has ownership of the recording - it could well have been licenced from another, smaller label or production company in the first place. Simon Sousann for instance it seems was given the right to issue Mirwood from the labels owner, Randy Wood although it falls into the 'grey' area apparently.

Therefore a Bootleg is something that doesn't have this permission and is in effect stolen or if you like, pirated or fake.

The Grapevine 45's are all legal, as are the Pye 45 mentioned. Grapevine was associated (and distributed by I think) with RCA so were a totally legit company.

Pye had deals with Calla and Roulette for instance which explains why the Disco Demand series is larely made up from records from the catalogues of those two labels. 

A company like Sony or Universal will not just give permission (which is in effect, the right to use a recording for a limited time or amount) to anyone.

A reissue is quite simply a later issue of an exsisting record.

I never really understood what a pressing was.

The term 'demo' is misleading. We use the word 'demo' for promotion copies, but a demo strictly speaking is a copy of something that is maybe intended for release, or so the relevant parties can her it so further work can be done in the studio - or possibly for songwriting purposes. A promo is a finished recording sent out for promotion purposes.

An original therefore is the first publically available issue of a 45- a lot of tracks which are being lumped in with bootlegs and reissues are in fact first issue 45's.

The 'manifesto' columns I've been doing for 18 months try and bring some of these to light. Some just can't seem to get their heads around this and choose to ignore legal, UK only issues of important Northern Soul and Soul records as if they are bootlegs or reissues. For something to be classed as a reissue it has to have been issued once in the first place! For instance who has an original 7" of J.J. Barnes 'Sweet Sherry" or an original of Betty Boo "Say It Isn't So" (as geordiejohnson says) or Marvin Gaye "Need Someone" or Peggy Scott "You Got It All" or Archie Bell's "Harder and Harder" or Jefree's "Love Loan" ? But look up most J.J. Barnes discographies and 'Sweet Sherry" apparently doesn't exist on 45.

I've got a headache now.

link

Wow you took it seriously! And I missed out 'issue'.

No well done Simon This thread needed that, bit of clarity etc.

Too may times I've heard anything other than an original referred to simply as a 'boot'.

[Dave]

Phew, thanks Dave contemplating Ebaying boots there for a mo

Remebered last pressing I bout - Volumes - ain't gonna give you up. Can't find it anywhere Has Dr Truelove on flip, which I was gonna buy an original of from either Butch or Shifty, (can't remember). But was advised against it as he wanted I think £75 at the time and that was deemed too much.

Maybe general consensus is not too many which is fair enough.  But things like Melvin Moore (modern wer ho!) and Ray Merrell, should be held on to

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Yes, I bet you were contemplating that Ian..... you being easily influenced by peer-opinion as you are

[Guest]

LOL- lets just hope I got it right!

(I'm sure someone will pipe up if not)

[Simsy]

Yes, I bet you were contemplating that Ian..... you being easily influenced by peer-opinion as you are    

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Always interested in other's opinions Dave

[Mark Bicknell]

This old chestnut will go on and on, who's right? who's wrong? and to be honest who really cares? fucked if i do anymore, just lets say we all do it our own way the best way we can and if some choose the original route then whats the problem? i think this has little to do with originals or pressings more to do with who wants to be a DJ and trying to justify their tools of their trade, like i say i don't really care how others work i just do it the only way i know...now over to Mr Rimmer.....lol

Mark Bicknell.

[Simsy]

This old chestnut will go on and on, who's right? who's wrong? and to be honest who really cares? fucked if i do anymore, just lets say we all do it our own way the best way we can and if some choose the original route then whats the problem? i think this has little to do with originals or pressings more to do with who wants to be a DJ and trying to justify their tools of their trade, like i say i don't really care how others work i just do it the only way i know...now over to Mr Rimmer.....lol

Mark Bicknell.

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No sark in this question Mark, pure curiosity, have you a pressing tucked anywhere?

[Simsy]

No sark in this question Mark, pure curiosity, have you a pressing tucked anywhere?

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Drum roll ...

[Simsy]

Shit, built it up too much, oh well. Let you off ...

Your silence speaks volumes big ted

No shame in owning good records whoever you are, or whatever they are

[Mark Bicknell]

Drum roll ...

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Sure i have being Charles Diamond and the Inspirations - No One Else Can Take Your Place - Breakthrough the one dated 1977 pink lable, and all the Grapevine 2000 releases but they are all legit British releases as already mentioned, pretty much every CD thats ever been issued from Kent, Goldmine etc. etc. but when i DJ i choose to play originals it's just the way i am with it i can't change that, again i don't really care or have an opinion on how others do it as it's none of my buisness i can only comment on how i present myself as a DJ.

Example i love the mentioned above track but know there are a couple of first generation originals out there in collections and would not dream of playing it at a live gig but again thats just me.

Mark Bicknell.

[Simsy]

Sure i have being Charles Diamond and the Inspirations - No One Else Can Take Your Place - Breakthrough the one dated 1977 pink lable, and all the Grapevine 2000 releases but they are all legit British releases as already mentioned, pretty much every CD thats ever been issued from Kent, Goldmine etc. etc. but when i DJ i choose to play originals it's just the way i am with it i can't change that, again i don't really care or have an opinion on how others do it as it's none of my buisness i can only comment on how i present myself as a DJ.

Example i love the mentioned above track but know there are a couple of first generation originals out there in collections and would not dream of playing it at a live gig but again thats just me.

Mark Bicknell.

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Cool, thanks for that

See above for playing out policy

[Simsy]

CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE LAST TIME WE ALL AGREE THAT NO ONE WOULD SHOULD OR COULD PLAY A PRESSING OUT (venue size/locale dependant)

link

.

[Mark Bicknell]

Cool, thanks for that

See above for playing out policy

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I've been thinking this thread over doing the Sunday night washing up a tradition in my house...lol and as i wear kinda two hats on this one doing the gigs and presenting the music on Solar i have mixed emotions about the whole deal really, i have no problem in playing say a new re issue from Grapevine on the show as a way to promote the record for them but i would not play them out at a gig, a little strange perhaps double standards but radio is a very different animal to the live venues as i tend you use all formats on the show well new legit re issues at least, CD's as and when they get sent to me again to help promote the CD, but it should alwas be about the music and it's enjoyment however the small circles of paper often to seem to get in the way.

Regards - Mark 'Bootleg' or is it 'peg leg' Bicknell.

[Guest dundeedavie]

Only one one Grapevine?

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me too .....cp love -trick bag

Davie

[Guest miff]

Back of me Fishing hols and its good to see a good old bit of argie bargie on site again Back on topic

Lots of people have lots of views on Boot ownership & Playing them out.

nobody seems to have any quarms with seeling them though

I do find that rather odd

[Simsy]

Back of me Fishing hols and its good to see a good old bit of argie bargie on site again Back on topic

Lots of people have lots of views on Boot ownership & Playing them out.

nobody seems to have any quarms with seeling them though 

I do find that rather odd 

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Catch anything?