Fantastic Puzzles - Come Back From Portugal

[Dean]

A steady stream of these going through ebay over the last year. Only seen the pic cover not the label. Are these a Euro issue of the Right On issue, I see the sleeve has PYE RO 106, same number as the Right On Issue in UK. Not suggesting anything wrong just interests me.

I can remember reading in my delivered copy of Blues and Soul (could have been echoes but kinda sure it was B&S) one week to look out for them as a new arrival on New Moon. I went down to Syd Booths in Mansfield and Phil Kingswood had New Moon promo's up on the wall for £1, got one but didn't really lik it at the time. Passed it onto Dave Withers on his Manchester indoor market stall one morning after Wigan as part of a few swaps i think. Can't remeber what i got.

Just one on those items I can remeber the history of it coming and going. Was dissapointed years later when i realised it was starting to fetch a little more and my taste had moved on. It was a while before I saw a new moon issue though.

Also - what was it with the re-issue flip with Bobby Kline, are these legit?

[Guest selectasoul]

A steady stream of these going through ebay over the last year. Only seen the pic cover not the label. Are these a Euro issue of the Right On issue, I see the sleeve has PYE RO 106, same number as the Right On Issue in UK. Not suggesting anything wrong just interests me.

I can remember reading in my delivered copy of Blues and Soul (could have been echoes but kinda sure it was B&S) one week to look out for them as a new arrival on New Moon. I went down to Syd Booths in Mansfield and Phil Kingswood had New Moon promo's up on the wall for £1, got one but didn't really lik it at the time. Passed it onto Dave Withers on his Manchester indoor market stall one morning after Wigan as part of a few swaps i think. Can't remeber what i got.

Just one on those items I can remeber the history of it coming and going. Was dissapointed years later when i realised it was starting to fetch a little more and my taste had moved on. It was a while before I saw a new moon issue though.

Also - what was it with the re-issue flip with Bobby Kline, are these legit?

The records on the pye label, nice release, got a couple left at $60 each if anyone is interested.

[Raresoul45s]

Heres the actual label plays part 2 on flip as originals

Cheers Darren

Edited January 24, 2011 by BROWNIE

[Guest martyn]

Heres the actual label plays part 2 on flip as originals

Cheers Darren

Why is a 1976 Portugese re-issue more desirable than a Right On UK re-issue - am I missing something ? ..........Or does that fetch $60 these days as well

[JOE TORQUAY]

Why is a 1976 Portugese re-issue more desirable than a Right On UK re-issue - am I missing something ? ..........Or does that fetch $60 these days as well

you should get one for less than $30 on ebay if you're patient which is less then a right-on issue which dosen't turn up very often in my opinion,

joe.

[Mick Reed]

Why is a 1976 Portugese re-issue more desirable than a Right On UK re-issue - am I missing something ? ..........Or does that fetch $60 these days as well

Hi sorry to ask but are you saying that the portugal issue is a re-issue. Thanks Mick

[John Benson]

To me it's quite clear that the Portuguese release on Pye was released after the UK Right On release - it says on the label "Licenced by Pye Records Limited England"

But strictly speaking it's not a re-issue, just a release in a different country - albeit due to the belated UK release done via Dave Godin.

It's not as if there was any big demand for it over here at the time is it?

I actually had a US DJ copy before the Right On 45 came out, then bought one of those and later sold the US copy for just a few pounds!

The Portuguese Pye release was most likely done due to a licencing deal with UK Pye at that time.

By the way, I picked up one of those Portuguese copies from Ian Clark during the late (90's ish) for under a fiver, so there was no big demand for it then either!

[Guest martyn]

Hi sorry to ask but are you saying that the portugal issue is a re-issue. Thanks Mick

EDIT

The post above from John explains it far better than me

Edited January 26, 2011 by martyn

[Dean]

Any info on these more suspicious looking items. Image taken form on-line, got Bobby Kline on other side I believe.

[Pauldonnelly]

Heres the actual label plays part 2 on flip as originals

Cheers Darren

PART TWO on pORTUGUESE PYE is an instrumental

Edited January 26, 2011 by PaulDonnelly

[John Benson]

PART TWO on pORTUGUESE PYE is an instrumental

Isn't the New Moon stock copy the same on side 2?

Part 2 = (same as) Instrumental ???

[Scotters]

Only heard this great record for the first time a few months back and narrowly lost out on ebay last wkend for what looked like a very good condition promo on New Moon (think it went for $147 in the end). Will pick one up sometime!

Just to add another question...I have a 45 by "The Puzzles" on Fat Back records ("My Sweet Baby") which is a funky dancer I picked up from Pat Brady early last year...Does anyone know if this is the same outfit before they got "Fantastic"?

Thanks,

Steve

[Sean Hampsey]

Just to add another question...I have a 45 by "The Puzzles" on Fat Back records ("My Sweet Baby") which is a funky dancer I picked up from Pat Brady early last year...Does anyone know if this is the same outfit before they got "Fantastic"?

Thanks,

Steve

Yes - Same group!

Nice record, 'My Sweet Baby'... but 'Come Back' is and always has been a truly 'Fantastic' record to me.

Always used it as my 'ender' when DJ'ing in the 70's.

I have a New Moon Issue, Right On Demo, Right On Issue and a Portugese Pye... just in case of unforseen disaster!

Great to see it getting a new lease of life this past few years.

The cream always rises to the top!

Sean

[Scotters]

Yes - Same group!

Nice record, 'My Sweet Baby'... but 'Come Back' is and always has been a truly 'Fantastic' record to me.

Always used it as my 'ender' when DJ'ing in the 70's.

I have a New Moon Issue, Right On Demo, Right On Issue and a Portugese Pye... just in case of unforseen disaster!

Great to see it getting a new lease of life this past few years.

The cream always rises to the top!

Sean

Thanks Sean...Always interesting to learn about records in the box and how they link with other great tracks like "Come Back". Let me know if you need to offload one of your many copies!

I'm fairly new to discovering such amazing records (only started buying original 45's about 18 mnths ago!) and mind blowing how many superb tracks are out there I've still to hear for the first time!

Cheers,

S

[Sean Hampsey]

I'm fairly new to discovering such amazing records (only started buying original 45's about 18 mnths ago!) and mind blowing how many superb tracks are out there I've still to hear for the first time!

Cheers,

S

Thanks Steve.

You might like to take a listen at this 45, by Grover Mitchell, I used to play around the same time.

Its not a group sound, but I always associate the two.

I was crazy about it as a new release... (just incredible lyrics)... and at a time when such a sound wasn't the type of thing to get decent exposure, I even had a T Shirt printed with Black Bold letters...'What Hurts' 'Grover Mitchell' on the front.

People thought I was nuts.

They may have been right.

But its still a great record.

Enjoy!

Sean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoS2ztPrb9s

Edited January 27, 2011 by Sean Hampsey

[Scotters]

Superb Sean!

Just sent you the separate message but wanted to show appreciation here too.

Thanks v much for that (and to you of course Dean for initial post about the Puzzles!).

Will certainly try to get along to one of your nights this year.

Cheers,

Steve

[Soulfulshoes]

Hi Sean........Hows things mate..... Just came across this post & got to say loved the Grover Mitchell track, not heard it in many years & had totally forgot about it...... Have you got any info on it Label , price etc if its not an arm & a leg i`ll keep an eye out for one.

By the way just incase you cant make out from the picture who i am........Think Thurcroft????? Cheers Barry.

[Northern Soul Uk]

Not sure if this is allowed or not, but just got a copy of this through the post on Portuguese PYE, and couldn't resist doing a little extended remix of it.

 

[Andy Rix]

And worth noting that the version that appeared on the Kent CD 'Mainstream Modern Soul 1969-1976' is a different vocal take.

There is also another 'unreleased' version with a very different lead vocal and far less backing vocal ... completely missing from the intro .. no idea where I got that from !

Andy

 

[Robbk]

Is that the same Brooklyn group (The Puzzles and Four Puzzles) that sang "I Need You"/bw "My Sweet Baby" on Fat Back Records during the 1960s?  They had been a Doo Wop group before they switched to Soul.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Robbk

[The Yank]

According to discogs, it is the same group.

[Robbk]

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

According to discogs, it is the same group.

Thanks.  yes, I had seen that statement for a long time.  But Discogs has had several errors over the years.  So, I wanted to know what the well-informed members on this forum knew from someone here possibly having had contact with the family of the original people involved.

[Goldsoul]

The single came about after Dave Godin suggested to his Right On counterpart Bill Downs(Ad Libs manager) that a Northern style 45 might make for an interesting release. 
Greg Carmichael was hired to create such a track. He enlisted the services of his friend Patrick Adams, who was somewhat familiar with the sound and feel requested, having worked on The Carlettes in late 67 for Bobby Robinson and then the Exciters for Herb Rooney and Ian Levine. 

Bill was a friend of mine and I remember being in his office surrounded by tons of Right On  and  Puzzles 45’s. His label manager at the time committed suicide(drug related I believe) a few weeks after I last saw him in late 75/76. He was British and name eludes me. 
 
As for the make up of the group, I’m not sure it was the same exact lineup as the Fatback, one, but they were assembled by Greg.

One of the best tailor made styles ever in my opinion  

 

 

[Robbk]

2 hours ago, Goldsoul said:

The single came about after Dave Godin suggested to his Right On counterpart Bill Downs(Ad Libs manager) that a Northern style 45 might make for an interesting release. 
Greg Carmichael was hired to create such a track. He enlisted the services of his friend Patrick Adams, who was somewhat familiar with the sound and feel requested, having worked on The Carlettes in late 67 for Bobby Robinson and then the Exciters for Herb Rooney and Ian Levine. 

Bill was a friend of mine and I remember being in his office surrounded by tons of Right On  and  Puzzles 45’s. His label manager at the time committed suicide(drug related I believe) a few weeks after I last saw him in late 75/76. He was British and name eludes me. 
 
As for the make up of the group, I’m not sure it was the same exact lineup as the Fatback, one, but they were assembled by Greg.

One of the best tailor made styles ever in my opinion  

 

 

Thanks.

[Bo Diddley]

2 hours ago, Goldsoul said:

The single came about after Dave Godin suggested to his Right On counterpart Bill Downs(Ad Libs manager) that a Northern style 45 might make for an interesting release. 
Greg Carmichael was hired to create such a track. He enlisted the services of his friend Patrick Adams, who was somewhat familiar with the sound and feel requested, having worked on The Carlettes in late 67 for Bobby Robinson and then the Exciters for Herb Rooney and Ian Levine. 

Bill was a friend of mine and I remember being in his office surrounded by tons of Right On  and  Puzzles 45’s. His label manager at the time committed suicide(drug related I believe) a few weeks after I last saw him in late 75/76. He was British and name eludes me. 
 
As for the make up of the group, I’m not sure it was the same exact lineup as the Fatback, one, but they were assembled by Greg.

One of the best tailor made styles ever in my opinion  

 

 

Thanks for the background info - I never knew, and would never have guessed, it was a "Tailor Made"!!

One of my favorite records. 

So, the New Moon and Right On versions are both original? (the New Moon issue looks the best!!!)

Cheers

Kev Bod

[Goldsoul]

47 minutes ago, Bo Diddley said:

Thanks for the background info - I never knew, and would never have guessed, it was a "Tailor Made"!!

One of my favorite records. 

So, the New Moon and Right On versions are both original? (the New Moon issue looks the best!!!)

Cheers

Kev Bod

Never quite figured out why Greg Carmichael had it issued on New Moon. He was an intelligent guy who sought opportunities. 
I remember dealing with him in early 1980 licensing Dance Freak- Chain Reaction for my Destiny label. 

[Bo Diddley]

48 minutes ago, Goldsoul said:

Never quite figured out why Greg Carmichael had it issued on New Moon. He was an intelligent guy who sought opportunities. 
I remember dealing with him in early 1980 licensing Dance Freak- Chain Reaction for my Destiny label. 

Could it have been to give it more "credibility", perhaps masking the Tailor Made element? Or would that not have been on his Radar.

The Right On label says "recorded at New Moon Studio"

Edited October 23, 2020 by Bo Diddley

[Joesoap]

How did the Canadian version of the Right On label come about then?

Couple of collectable releases (Sammy Gaha; Ms Dolly Gilmore) that didn't appear on the UK imprint...

[Merve]

On 23/10/2020 at 10:31, Goldsoul said:

Never quite figured out why Greg Carmichael had it issued on New Moon. He was an intelligent guy who sought opportunities. 
I remember dealing with him in early 1980 licensing Dance Freak- Chain Reaction for my Destiny label. 

If tailor made for the Northern Scene (not doubting that btw), why was the New Moon version issued in the states a few months before the Right On release ?....Its an expensive way to gain credibility when a few acetates would have had the same result (like LJ Johnson 'Your magic 'etc around the same time). Surely someone must have thought there was a legitimate market for it in the states. 

As you say puzzling - No pun intended ! 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Merve

[Benji]

On 28/10/2020 at 02:33, Joesoap said:

How did the Canadian version of the Right On label come about then?

Couple of collectable releases (Sammy Gaha; Ms Dolly Gilmore) that didn't appear on the UK imprint...

I understand the Canadian Right On label is not connected to the UK label. Maybe whoever was behind the Canadian one thought label name and label design are quite nice and used them for their own set up.

Sammy Gaha was based in France when he recorded "Thank you Thank you" and it first came out in France.

[Goldsoul]

9 hours ago, Benji said:

I understand the Canadian Right On label is not connected to the UK label. Maybe whoever was behind the Canadian one thought label name and label design are quite nice and used them for their own set up.

Sammy Gaha was based in France when he recorded "Thank you Thank you" and it first came out in France.

Here are the facts again........Dave Godin intimated to Bill Downs his US counterpart that the Northern scene was strong. 
Greg Carmichael was requested to create something after listening to several tracks submitted by Bill.  
I was in and out of his office in New York regularly from February 1975 and he told me. 
I saw the whole Right On label unfold, met Chris Bartley, Sandra Philips although at the time more interested in Bill’s Jelly Beans and Ad Libs 45’s a decade or so before. 
Patrick Adams re-confirmed the scenario above after chatting about my Northern Soul Mystery Men podcast. 
Come Back.....The Fantastic Puzzles was recorded following a discussion between Godin and Downs for their Right On label.  
Hope that’s a bit clearer. 

The above was in reply to Merve not Benji. Thanks 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Goldsoul