John Manship Auction

[Guest Awake 502]

A couple of previous threads

[Sheep]

Guess it is some foreign label besides US or UK, sort of a Lenny Curtis on Portugeies label. How about Bernie Moore on spainish label

Can't be Bernie Moore, has to be an historical item. How about Buning Desire on Dutch Fontana

[Davetay]

or a blag to get customers to look through his site. to see what it is / was. then notice somthing else and bid / buy.

IMO anyway.

tony

Tony, you cynic.

[Chalky]

I though it was out of the bag so why keep guessing?

I wish it was a box of JLTW by Mill Edwards, the one Butch has, by far the best vocal for me.

[Dave Abbott]

I though it was out of the bag so why keep guessing?

I wish it was a box of JLTW by Mill Edwards, the one Butch has, by far the best vocal for me.

Totally agree NC does nothing for me - but the Edwards one packs a punch :-)

[Steve G]

I'd hazard a guess at the Bunky being the National release (dist by Scepter) and therefore the second issue to the Local label (Constellation).

My take on this is different. I reckon it was pressed up on the wrong label. I have all the Bunky's apart from this one and they never had the Constellation numbering system, so I reckon the plant pressed it by mistake on Bunky labels rather than Constellation. Realising their mistake they trashed it and repressed it but one or two got away from the crusher. The same thing happened with J Kelly & premiers, destined for Roadshow but pressed on Wand by mistake (11278). ANyway all speculation, but that's my theory on the Bunky release.

[Garethx]

My take on it is this: the Constellation release was cusp of 64/65 according to Robert Pruter's Chicago Soul, released on the coat-tails of She's Gone / If He Makes You: a reasonably big hit in Chicago, LA and other markets. The record stiffed. Fast forward to 1966 and Constellation is going under. Ewart Abner has left the label as owner/president to try to sort out the mess that was the dying embers of the VeeJay empire. Gene Chandler's minor hit records are no longer enough to sustain Constellation so it is wound up. Gene Chandler's contract is sold to Chess / Checker and Bill Sheppard is free to tout his own masters (of which JLTW is one) around to other concerns. At the same time Billy The Kid Emerson and Denise LaSalle are having considerable local success with their take over the same backing track: A Love Reputation which would subsequently be sold with Denise LaSalle's contract to Chess. Bill Sheppard presses up a small number of deejay copies of the Nolan Chance 45 on his own logo to service radio d.j.s and try to get the record picked up or re-released. This is around the same time as Sheppard discovers and promotes The Esquires whose first 45s for Bunky all sell really well and facilitate the distribution of new Bunky product by Scepter / Wand. The Nolan Chance project is shelved and the small number of WDJs on Bunky are binned. Except one or (now) two. I've never seen one but I'm having a wild guess that it is a WDJ pressed at ARP in Michigan. The same plant as Frank Wilson on Soul and the existing Constellation WDJs of Just Like The Weather. The interesting number will be the master #: we know that it has a catalogue number C-161. If it has the master number C-65-279 it supports Steve's theory that it is likely and simply a mis-press of the Constellation demo. A label or run-out with a post-1965 number could back up the theory of a later release. The same metalwork would likely be used anyway, but they may have assigned it a different matrix. It will be very interesting to see a picture of the thing in any case. Steve's theory runs into a problem in that the first Bunky release would appear to be the local version of the Esquires 45 as mentioned above. The pressing plant would not have Bunky blanks lying around in winter 64/65.

As for those not exactly blown away by another copy of this coming out of the woodwork I guess it's a sign that we've all become spoilt by the wealth of what would once have been pretty astounding finds with far more regularity these days. The internet has indeed made the world a far smaller place.

Edited June 13, 2011 by garethx

[Cunnie]

I though it was out of the bag so why keep guessing?

I wish it was a box of JLTW by Mill Edwards, the one Butch has, by far the best vocal for me.

But has Butch heard the Aaron Neville / Richie Parker 70's acetate version ??

Richie Parker - Just Like The Weather - Acetate

[Steve G]

Gareth,

That's an interesting theory, and I've now been to my shelves dug out both my Nolan chance records and my Bunky stuff...... And it does hold some water timewise if Nolan Chance was issued on Constellation in 65, I know the matrix suggests a recording date of 65 (65-279). His other one on the label was however some time earlier - it's 144 and has a 64 matrix number so I am not sure I agree with Robert Pruter's theory of JLTW being "hot on the tails" of "If he makes you" - looks like quite a gap to me and two seperate recording sessions....As you say it's what's in the matrix of the Bunky record that counts, but what i cannot fathom is why it would have a Constellation release number, since Bunky used 7750 to start his labels - not only Bunky but also B&B which had Mill Evans as 7750. Unless Bunky put it out again and it was the first one on the label, which is possible. BTW Bunky was bad at release numbers as well I have 2 different 7751's one by Glenn Watts and the other by The Esquires but on B&G (not B&B)! I like going to the shelves!!! Oh and in response to someone elses question - not all Bunky's went through Scepter.....The Esquires did and one or two others. Steve

Edited June 13, 2011 by Steve G

[Constellation161]

Nice uptempo version also like the Mill Edwards version but Nolan Chance everytime for me ,as you guess by my avatar .Mick Perrins

[Russ Vickers]

Bloody hell thats rather nice........I'll take one of those thx .

Best Russ

[Chalky]

But has Butch heard the Aaron Neville / Richie Parker 70's acetate version ??

Richie Parker - Just Like The Weather - Acetate

I would have thought so. The track won't play either, well it won't here. And if it's the one I'm thinking of it is the worst take of the lot.

[KevH]

I would have thought so. The track won't play either, well it won't here. And if it's the one I'm thinking of it is the worst take of the lot.

Its played for me Chalky.A bit weak for me,but has a certain appeal.

[Chalky]

Its played for me Chalky.A bit weak for me,but has a certain appeal.

keep getting an error message, server not found and then some numbers

[Dave Pinch]

gareth take looks something like.... but i think it came out after the two esquires...probably in te summer of 67

dave

[celthomas]

ba ba blacksheep ----have you any wool

[Barry]

Its played for me Chalky.A bit weak for me,but has a certain appeal.

Yes. It's got a black fella singing on it.

[KevH]

Yes. It's got a black fella singing on it.

[Barry]

Not being arsey Kev - but I struggle to dislike black vocals on most things, so it, to me also, has appeal as it has a black fella singing on it.

[Guest]

All that guessing and the original poster actually gave it away in the first post!

p.s. is Bunky a reissue or a first issue, was it a private press?

Pete,

You're correct "Private or persional" press.

this BUNKY 161 45 preceeds the BUNKY label that issued the Esquires in 1967. The masterplate is exactly the one used for the 1965 CONSTELLATION 161 press. After minor research I believe this BUNKY 45 was a very limited "handful" press for Bill Sheppard himself and his productions and mailed most likely OUTSIDE the states. To promote is producer skills his name and his work. It was NOT distributed by Scepter or anyone for that matter. The labels for this 45, I believe were added during the Constellation run. Just a few so he could mail them out - I presume with a covering letter of his publishing rights etc.

It was certainly a personal promotion vehicle for Bunky Sheppard and his company. Like I say this disc is before all the "BUNKY" releases by at least a year. And I believe pressed at exactly the same time as the CONSTELLTION 45 just different labels in the hopper. So we can forget the "re-issue" theory as it uses exactly the same text and layout as the Constellation release except BUNKY RECORDS INC. at the top of the label, instead on CONSTELLATION RECORDS INC.

John

Edited June 14, 2011 by john manship

[Guest Alfa166]

Jeeez.....I hadn't realised just how nerdy Northern Soul has become

Are we allowed to dance to this record or just look at it and wonder at it labelness?

what?....What have I said?....What?

PS. "Labelness" may not be a real word.

[Dave Abbott]

After minor research I believe this BUNKY 45 was a very limited "handful" press for Bill Sheppard himself and his productions and mailed most likely OUTSIDE the states.

Corfu??

[Barry]

Corfu??

Bless you.

[KevH]

Corfu??

,Canada?

[Guest]

https://www.tunesbag....s-you-t11490171

true or not, more info for the anoraks

[KevH]

£1017 with 3 weeks 5 days to go.................

[Dave Abbott]

£1017 with 3 weeks 5 days to go.................

not even covering the costs for the poor old dears trip from Corfu...bid up people

[Kegsy]

""And I believe pressed at exactly the same time as the CONSTELLTION 45 just different labels in the hopper. So we can forget the "re-issue" theory as it uses exactly the same text and layout as the Constellation release except BUNKY RECORDS INC. at the top of the label, instead on CONSTELLATION RECORDS INC.""

I suspect Phil Dick.

Kegsy

[KevH]

not even covering the costs for the poor old dears trip from Corfu...bid up people

Ryanair?

[Geoff B]

Geoff, who from Accy?

Richard had it on Bunky back in the day, I did try to buy it off him but he wouldn't sell.

Having said that, I never actually saw the record, but I did want it bad.

Dave.

P.S. Geoff say hi to Margaret from me and Lou.

Will do and hi to Lou too

Hi Dave,

Sorry can't remember his name but he certainly was the man in the know at the time,I am sure Brad or Larry Calvert might remember.

atb Geoff.

[Davetay]

Will do and hi to Lou too ' />

Hi Dave,

                  Sorry can't remember his name but he certainly was the man in the know at the time,I am sure Brad or Larry Calvert might remember.

atb Geoff.

Next time I see Brad, I will ask him if I remember!

Take care you two, will see you around. (no emotions?)

Dave.

[Phild]

""And I believe pressed at exactly the same time as the CONSTELLTION 45 just different labels in the hopper. So we can forget the "re-issue" theory as it uses exactly the same text and layout as the Constellation release except BUNKY RECORDS INC. at the top of the label, instead on CONSTELLATION RECORDS INC.""

I suspect Phil Dick.

Kegsy

[snooky]

Does anyone know were this copy came from???

Was it found in a junk shop or from a collection...........anybody know or can JM tell us?

Intrigued as to where it has been for all these years without anyone showing it off??????

snooky

[Guest]

Does anyone know were this copy came from???

Was it found in a junk shop or from a collection...........anybody know or can JM tell us?

Intrigued as to where it has been for all these years without anyone showing it off??????

snooky

Unable to confirm when and where it was found, I never asked. But I have been told by a friend of the owner it was found in a junk shop in Australia. Which if true, strengthens the theory that copies where used to promote BUNKY outside the USA as the original copy Ady found in 1973 apparently was found in London within a batch of music industry file singles.

When I find the real story behind the find, I will let everyone know at the moment I think the owner is on his way back to Oz.

Edited June 17, 2011 by john manship

[Ady Croasdell]

It was Dave Burton, not me who found it in his trunk of treasure. He kindly let me have it for £2 when he could have got at least a fiver as I was a penniless student (probably 1972 then) and he was a great bloke.

I reckon Bunky had 'em made up as personal promos, one step up from the stickers the DJs used to put on the labels.

I flogged it to John Vincent in the late 70s because it had been booted and I was skint and thought I'd pick one up on my travels; that's one of the drawbacks of being an optimist. Still I've dined out on the story of getting one over on John Anderson for a few decades now.

Ady

[Guest]

Great, I love this story and how the truth is being unravelled by those who actually took part. I know it was 40 years ago but can you remember where Mr Burton obtained his copy from. I'm planing to write a short story on it. Any help on the history of this 45 would be most gratefully received. Anyone got a 10 by 8 pic of Nolan or any pics of BUNKY himself?

Thanks for the input Ady ~ appreciated.

John

Edited June 17, 2011 by john manship

[Ady Croasdell]

It was in a big wooden trunk of US promos mainly from the mid to late 60s that Cas who worked at Warners brought down to Dave's Harlequin record shop in the basement by Berwick Street market in Soho. There must have been a few hundred great soul promos, lots of Brunswick in particular. Probably stuff the US companies were trying to get out on UK Atlantic back then.

Dave was and is a top bloke who discovered quite a few sounds.

[boba]

I have 3 dukays photos but the first two are from 1961 from before nolan chance (charles davis) replaced gene chandler. The third is from 1964 and nolan chance isn't in it either, I guess he must have left by then.

[Cunnie]

Bloody hell thats rather nice........I'll take one of those thx .

Best Russ

Everything has it's price Russ

Still not 100% sure who it is though. Pokes copy was credited to Richie Parker & mine that the refosoul clip is from is credited to Aaron Neville.

Must admit though that on the rare occasions that I play it out I pitch it down a bit

[Guest]

It was in a big wooden trunk of US promos mainly from the mid to late 60s that Cas who worked at Warners brought down to Dave's Harlequin record shop in the basement by Berwick Street market in Soho. There must have been a few hundred great soul promos, lots of Brunswick in particular. Probably stuff the US companies were trying to get out on UK Atlantic back then.

Dave was and is a top bloke who discovered quite a few sounds.

That figures, when I went to Robert Van De Hove's in Belgium in '77 his attic was full of USA promo's sent to Belgium in the hope of a release. I found Dena Barnes promo next to a Darrell Banks on London in his house all 45s sent to different countries looking for a deal for release. Again this validates our theory of a promo one up from The usual promo stickers you see on various demo's. There must have have a covering letter, wow if ever that was found then the pairing would be NS historical.

Ady great to chat, I'm sure someone else will add another brick to the story.

Edited June 17, 2011 by john manship

[macca]

a fascinating read chaps. one can learn so much here, even after 30 odd years of soul talk.

[Guest chorleybloke]

Nowt to do wi me folks - sadly but the wires were hot last night here in Perth

Cheers

Pete

[Guest turntableterra]

That figures, when I went to Robert Van De Hove's in Belgium in '77 his attic was full of USA promo's sent to Belgium in the hope of a release. I found Dena Barnes promo next to a Darrell Banks on London in his house all 45s sent to different countries looking for a deal for release. Again this validates our theory of a promo one up from The usual promo stickers you see on various demo's. There must have have a covering letter, wow if ever that was found then the pairing would be NS historical.

Ady great to chat, I'm sure someone else will add another brick to the story.

[Guest DeeJay]

I'm sorry, i'm being a bit thick here, but can someone tell me what the record is, etc. I've gathered that it's Nolan Chance? and it came out on constellation? but has been found on Bunky?????? Can someone pretend they're trying to explain it to their almost non northern soul wife or (husband) please. DJ

[Chalky]

I'm sorry, i'm being a bit thick here, but can someone tell me what the record is, etc. I've gathered that it's Nolan Chance? and it came out on constellation? but has been found on Bunky?????? Can someone pretend they're trying to explain it to their almost non northern soul wife or (husband) please. DJ

Just Like The Weather

[Sunnysoul]

I've received a flood of emails saying that if someone found it in Oz, then it had to be me .... well ... I can't confirm ... or deny it ... for the moment anyway .

[Guest Bearsy]

I've received a flood of emails saying that if someone found it in Oz, then it had to be me .... well ... I can't confirm ... or deny it ... for the moment anyway .

[Guest DeeJay]

Cheers lah! DJ

[Guest sharmo 1]

Hi John and Ady the copie I've seen was in Roosendhal in the Netherlands that is close to the Belgium border Andrea Silvyn still has it although it is now in Leiden He told me that it came from the stempa publishers or someone like that in Amsterdam hope this helps regards Simon.

[Ady Pountain]

Just to add to the US Promos in other countries part of the story. When the Australian Sound Archive sold all their non Australian Records in the late 90's there were loads of US Promos in there, many with licensing letters with them. I found nearly everything worth having on US Capitol from the 70's in one box! I also found lots of Florida stuff (Cat, Alston, Blue Candle etc.) in an old shop in Johannesburg, mostly Promos. In both cases the records didn't come from buying trips, but from publishers / record companies.