John Manship Auction

[Guest gordon russell]

who,s gonna buy it?..........................honky?................now that would be a 40 year round trip

[dthedrug]

Pete,

You're correct "Private or personal" press.

this BINKY 161 45 precedes the BUNKY label that issued the Esquires in 1967. The master plate is exactly the one used for the 1965 CONSTELLATION 161 press. After minor research I believe this BUNKY 45 was a very limited "handful" press for Bill Sheppard himself and his productions and mailed most likely OUTSIDE the states. To promote is producer skills his name and his work. It was NOT distributed by Scepter or anyone for that matter. The labels for this 45, I believe were added during the Constellation run. Just a few so he could mail them out - I presume with a covering letter of his publishing rights etc.

It was certainly a personal promotion vehicle for Bunky Sheppard and his company. Like I say this disc is before all the "BUNKY" releases by at least a year. And I believe pressed at exactly the same time as the CONSTELLATION 45 just different labels in the hopper. So we can forget the "re-issue" theory as it uses exactly the same text and layout as the Constellation release except BUNKY RECORDS INC. at the top of the label, instead on CONSTELLATION RECORDS INC.

John

Hi All And Hi John, As I said in my personal Email to you, I am pleased for you that you have finally found this record, after searching for it for so many years, over that period of time you have along with other top dealers helped collectors build there collections, this fact goes un-noticed for 99% of the time, Also I stated this is my #2 favorite Northern Soul record, yes it is old school, but it evokes many memories that have become latent,,,and let's be honest, after hearing "love reputation" who could deny that £just like the weather" is not a truer testament of what NORTHER SOUL was and was all about in the early 70s, along with such records:- DUKE BROWNER, HESITATIONS, MEL WILLIAMS, JAMES BOUNTY AND FATHERS ANGELS AND SO MANY MANY MORE!, who would not want to own the BUNKY copy, I said on another thread that when Ady had his copy Although I did not see it, it was proof enough for myself to believe it existed,

By sharing the info relating to the matrix, you have dispelled the CHICKEN AND EGG questions, and of coarse it has to be along the lines stated, however you have to concede, that the BUNKEY LABEL issue made the story confusing as nothing added up to why would Bill Shepard want to use this record 2 years later?? Now we no he didn't.

Also and finally if you are going to auction it I hope it pays you back for the long search for it, it has to be one of the worlds rarest records and certainly a very elusive dusty that's for sure, well done John DAVE KIL

[Guest turntableterra]

i wouldnt have sent you an email, so dont worry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just go right ahead and deny it.

[Guest turntableterra]

i knew it was yours all along, LOL.............GREAT STORY THOUGH. was there anything else. a sam williams issue wouldnt have been as good as this IMHO. AND QUALITY THREAD TOO.

[Soul Shrews]

He told me that it came from the stempa publishers or someone like that in Amsterdam hope this helps regards Simon.

Stemra is the publishers name

Cheers Paul

[Guest]

https://www.youtube.com/user/JohnManship?feature=mhee

thanks John for letting me share it

Paul

[Guest Paul]

Hi John and Ady the copie I've seen was in Roosendhal in the Netherlands that is close to the Belgium border Andrea Silvyn still has it although it is now in Leiden He told me that it came from the stempa publishers or someone like that in Amsterdam hope this helps regards Simon.

Hello

STEMRA is the mechanical rights society in the Netherlands.

If they ever had a file copy of the actual record I assume it came from a Dutch sub-publisher when making a registration / claim on the song.

In the old days many writers and publishers supplied records as reference copies of recordings to societies.

Paul

Edited June 22, 2011 by Paul

[Premium Stuff]

https://www.youtube.com/user/JohnManship?feature=mhee

thanks John for letting me share it

Paul

Just listened and have to say I forgot how damned good this song is

Listening to it just brought this whole thread to life again for me

Cheers

Richard

[Guest Brian Ellis]

I was talking to Sam the other evening as we drove up to Broughton about the find.

He told me that he had a Bunky copy for just 24 hours. Early days (72/73) he had a list from Simon Soussan which had a copy listed. Sam, at the time not knowing much about SS, was very wary about who he was. Sam thought that he might be an out and out thug, but the lure of the record was too much and so he arranged to go to SS's house in Leeds.

He went very early, parked his car some 3/4 mile away, cased the joint for some time before eventually knocking on the door.

He had a good meeting with SS, allaying his fears that he might get mugged by him (physically) and parted with the grand sum of £15 for it.

Got it home, never had a chance to play it, before agreeing to move it on to Neil Rushton for a 300% profit - sold for 60 quid

..................... from the horse's mouth - 18 JUne 2011

[Suinoz]

Not to say too much at this stage of the auction, but there is a wonderful story behind the discovery of this very rare record. Hopefully all will be revealed to the world once it is sold. The stuff of fairy tales believe me. This is probably the most important find of a mint example 45 that has eluded us all for over 40 years. Even now, and it's only speculation, there has only ever been 1 other copy seen and no-one knows where that is. So this find carries so much mystique and there is no doubt whoever wins the record in John Manships auction will have a verey rare collectable piece of vinyl indeed, that can only increase in value. It surely rates as rarer than Don Gardner, Damon Fox or even the Frank Wilson. Who's gonna be the first person to pop it on the decks for us to hear ?? Not me but ?? Tony T Bone. OZ.

[Suinoz]

2079 POUNDS WITH OVER A DAY TO GO. WHO WILL WIN THIS ONE OFF MASTERPIECE AND WILL IT GRACE THE DECKS IN THE U.K. ???????????

[Pete S]

2079 POUNDS WITH OVER A DAY TO GO. WHO WILL WIN THIS ONE OFF MASTERPIECE AND WILL IT GRACE THE DECKS IN THE U.K. ???????????

Dunno but you don't half sound excited about it, last two posts are yours, nobody else exactly jumping up and down

[Suinoz]

Only bit of excitement in my otherwise boring day Pete. Just having a moment of pure speculation mate. Gets a few tongues wagging speshly in this part of the world !!

[Guest]

Current bid: £ 2,517.00

Time remaining: Approx. 1 day, 6 hours

it's amazing what those tongues wagging can do in half an hour!

[pikeys dog]

Boring label tho, innit?

I'd rather have a Constellation one and spend the rest of the cash on a Thai Pro and Crack Cocaine Bender.

[Guest]

Boring label tho, innit?

I'd rather have a Constellation one and spend the rest of the cash on a Thai Pro and Crack Cocaine Bender.

i think the label is what makes it, it shows how one small change can have such an effect.

and i was 'excited' about seeing it just as much as i was videoing it, and when i got home i kicked myself cos i hadn't touched it.

[pikeys dog]

i think the label is what makes it, it shows how one small change can have such an effect.

and i was 'excited' about seeing it just as much as i was videoing it, and when i got home i kicked myself cos i hadn't touched it.

Reading you gush over it makes me think it's you that needs to go on the bender....

[Guest]

well, iv'e never heard a tune and gone to buy it and thought, oh, that label looks a bit boring, think i'll give it a miss.

i did once know a bloke in the bookies who used to put all his wages on a jockey just because he likes the colours.

he ended up skint. but he was a bit of ....

[Guest Seagrave]

Couple of points/comments.

Firstly, how the hell can it be rarer than the Frank Wilson if there are at least two copies?

Plus, of course, there are other perfectly good authentic originals in the form of the Constellation presses. It is, at best, a rare variation; rather than a rare record in itself. In similar fashion the Yum Yums black stock copy (taking just one example) would be a rarer variation, given that there appears to be only one known copy. As has already been confirmed, this Bunky copy is from exactly the same plates as the Constellation releases, therefore someone has merely stuck a different label on the same wax.

Secondly, there seems to be some doubt as to whether John might actually have seen one of these before, or had contact with a 'reliable' source with a copy; or perhaps not?

Let me explain. In John's bootleg guide (3rd edition, page 11) he provides what appears to be a very precise and authoritative description of the matrix marks on the original Bunky variation. Trouble is, he also states that the original label is dark blue, whereas the one on auction at the moment has a white label.

Not quite sure what to make of that. Unreliable source? Typo? Two separate originals with differing colours?

Some clarification on this second point would be useful John, if you could help us here.

Cheers.

[Guest]

On Thursday this space will be taken by a NORTHERN SOUL7" LEGEND! It seems I've been waiting ALL my life to even see a copy, it's now in my hands and I'm almost suffering from premature.... death.

[Ted Massey]

On Thursday this space will be taken by a NORTHERN SOUL7" LEGEND! It seems I've been waiting ALL my life to even see a copy, it's now in my hands and I'm almost suffering from premature.... death.

get a grip

[Guest]

On Thursday this space will be taken by a NORTHERN SOUL7" LEGEND! It seems I've been waiting ALL my life to even see a copy, it's now in my hands and I'm almost suffering from premature.... death.

The 45 has been clouded by mystery for over 4 decades I personally have never ever seen the BUNKY 45 before or even sen a scan of it. When I did the bootleg guide thing last century I possibly spoke to Richard searling who I think had a copy - dark blue label comment just confirms none of us really knew what it looked like. Even those who have actually seen the copy aidey croasdale had were convinced the label has "bunkys pick" text on it - it doesn't without question it is the first time in my life I have seen this 45.

[Guest smudgesmith]

The 45 has been clouded by mystery for over 4 decades I personally have never ever seen the BUNKY 45 before or even sen a scan of it. When I did the bootleg guide thing last century I possibly spoke to Richard searling who I think had a copy - dark blue label comment just confirms none of us really knew what it looked like. Even those who have actually seen the copy aidey croasdale had were convinced the label has "bunkys pick" text on it - it doesn't without question it is the first time in my life I have seen this 45.

F@@k what all the others say John I touched and got a stiffy lol

[pikeys dog]

F@@k what all the others say John I touched and got a stiffy lol

you might want to rephrase that...

[Guest smudgesmith]

you might want to rephrase that...

mmmmmm Touched the record soz

[Benji]

In the end it's just a very very rare label variation of a (IMO) mediocre Northern classic. I doubt that more than a handful of hard core collectors are bidding on it.

Something like for instance a proper release copy of Butch's Diane Lewis cover up, now that would be interesting to say the least.

[Ezzie Brown]

always something to find,,,,,,,, ,you lot amaze me with your dedication to finding the records you do , and your knowledge of the history of a particular recording and the circumstances, personel etc ,,,personally i

think its the unknowns that are

more interesting, especially as i spent 30 years not even looking and would

love to find a belter to knock you lot sideways..... .............,fat chance ..still looking ... its not the

money ...its the "wow what is that ? remarks that are priceless to the

record hound .................. but a thread like this encourages us all to keep hunting, if i had found the record discussed i would sell it..........cos we know the tune ...........it will always be a .wonderful

recording and ...im sure the buyer will

cherish it as i do all mine , regardless of monetary value ..regards ez................

Edited July 5, 2011 by ezzie brown

[Guest]

F@@k what all the others say John I touched and got a stiffy lol

Thing is Smudge if you weren't there to experience Northern soul from 1970 to 1976 it is just as some have quiet rightly pointed out a mighty "rare label variation". But if you did grow up in that era, it is without parallels the rarest of all the groundbreaking classics. I don't expect anyone "outside" that pioneering era to feel what we feel.

But you're a "proper" time -served collector I'd expect nothing less than a hard-on. Ps - I think Stella and Julie noticed...

[pikeys dog]

Thing is Smudge if you weren't there to experience Northern soul from 1970 to 1976 it is just as some have quiet rightly pointed out a mighty "rare label variation". But if you did grow up in that era, it is without parallels the rarest of all the groundbreaking classics. I don't expect anyone "outside" that pioneering era to feel what we feel.

But you're a "proper" time -served collector I'd expect nothing less than a hard-on. Ps - I think Stella and Julie noticed...

John,

Since I'm not a "proper" time-served collector who was in nappies during that "pioneering era", please feel free to remove me from your e-mail shots/auction database.

I find your tone completely patronising and as such I'll no longer be patronising your site again.

Congratulations you've joined Henry Atkinson on the never to be dealt with again list.

Cheers,

Joe Dutton

[Trev Thomas]

Thing is Smudge if you weren't there to experience Northern soul from 1970 to 1976 it is just as some have quiet rightly pointed out a mighty "rare label variation". But if you did grow up in that era, it is without parallels the rarest of all the groundbreaking classics. I don't expect anyone "outside" that pioneering era to feel what we feel.

But you're a "proper" time -served collector I'd expect nothing less than a hard-on. Ps - I think Stella and Julie noticed...

i didnt start going to nighters until 1980, but icertainly got a visit from mr stiffy when i first saw it on your website

Edited July 5, 2011 by soulman1964

[boba]

John,

Since I'm not a "proper" time-served collector who was in nappies during that "pioneering era", please feel free to remove me from your e-mail shots/auction database.

I find your tone completely patronising and as such I'll no longer be patronising your site again.

Congratulations you've joined Henry Atkinson on the never to be dealt with again list.

Cheers,

Joe Dutton

patronizing or not, I think he was just saying that the record would only be that important to you if you were on the northern scene 1970-1976. If anything, he was agreeing with you about the record being not that inherently great to other soul collectors. most dealers talk up their records for sale anyways, you reaction is sort of silly IMHO.

for me, the record is just vaguely interesting due to it being chicago related. the fact that this thread makes it more of a "foreign" press actually makes it less interesting for me -- like a british or italian release of a US record... I know it was probably pressed in the US, it's just that it was not even intended for the US market.

[Kris Holmes]

I want to know the story alluded to above about how this 45 came to surface.......... spill the beans.

[boba]

I want to know the story alluded to above about how this 45 came to surface.......... spill the beans.

I'm guessing sunioz has some info given their bumping of the thread

[Suinoz]

Patience my friends, patience ! AWBRS.

[Benji]

Patience my friends, patience ! AWBRS.

I'm so excited I fall asleep any time soon.

[Guest]

John,

Since I'm not a "proper" time-served collector who was in nappies during that "pioneering era", please feel free to remove me from your e-mail shots/auction database.

I find your tone completely patronising and as such I'll no longer be patronising your site again.

Congratulations you've joined Henry Atkinson on the never to be dealt with again list.

Cheers,

Joe Dutton

Joe,

Like bob says, I was actually agreeing with you it's only the older fraternity who would find this 45 extra exciting. Sorry if my choice of phrase offended, there was no intention to as I was agreeing that for some this is NOT exciting, for those who first heard this tune as impressionable teenagers and collect those classics it is very exciting. Especially as this variation has been seen by so few people.

I wasn't having a pop at those of you who think it 's over-hyped. I agree for some collectors this is a non-event, and it is silly maybe, to get carried away, I'm carried away because In my life i've never seen the record before.

Certainly no offence intended, that's the problem with posting my tone of voice/thought cannot be heard, I was actually trying agreeing with you and paying Smudge a compliment. Please accept my apologises if it came over as a "pop" it certainly was not intended as such.

[KevH]

John,

Since I'm not a "proper" time-served collector who was in nappies during that "pioneering era", please feel free to remove me from your e-mail shots/auction database.

I find your tone completely patronising and as such I'll no longer be patronising your site again.

Congratulations you've joined Henry Atkinson on the never to be dealt with again list.

Cheers,

Joe Dutton

I dont get why you're so upset.

[Len]

I dont get why you're so upset.

Nor me, maybe read it again. I don't think for one monent John was being patronising, it didn't read so to me. I agree with what he said, for example I personally don't like the record much at all (Or the version Butch plays) But fully understand the importance of it to the older generation who in their youth first heard it.

All the best,

Len.

[Tony A]

gone at 2,687.00, cheaper than I thought.

[Pete S]

Ps i would expect it to top five grand if records like the Inspirations go for a grand!!( not knocking it just not worth it.........no history )

I nearly fainted when I saw that up for sale at £1000 recently, good job I didn't have it cos I'd have sold it for £600 and lost a fair bit of money by the looks of it.

[pikeys dog]

Thanks to John for clearing his posting up, and his apology whether warranted or not.

Why did i throw a minor eppy?

For the last twenty+ years I've collected records, often with many of the old school collectors looking down on me because I never went to Wigan or even Stafford.

In the past I've had sales boxes closed on me because the seller thought I was too young or 'clueless' all because I wasn't 'there' at the time.

So phrases like "proper" and "time-served" used in respect to someone just because they've been on the Planet a few years more get right on my Goat.

Apologies to John for any offence I may have caused him, but not for my annoyance at what appeared to be more of the same old....

I'd still rather have the Constellation issue and the Thai Pro and Crack Cocaine bender though, but maybe that's because I'm too young and clueless to appreciate the utter c"kstiffening magnificence and cum-worthyness of the Bunky issue...

[Pete S]

I'd still rather have the Constellation issue and the Thai Pro and Crack Cocaine bender though, but maybe that's because I'm too young and clueless to appreciate the utter c"kstiffening magnificence and cum-worthyness of the Bunky issue...

Demo Joe, demo, only someone young and clueless would say issue

[pikeys dog]

bollox.

[Steve L]

gone at 2,687.00, cheaper than I thought.

dont figure high enough on the expertometer to have an opinion, is this just a bit of an anticlimax?

[Chalky]

I had a feeling it wouldn't reach the prices some expected. Maybe the fact it's simply a variant, albeit very very rare one, and available for helluva lot less played it's part? Plus you had to be there I bet the winning bidder is happy and even happier it didn't fetch a lot more which it could quite easily have done.

I wouldn't mind it in my collection though but I was genuinely more excited over the one Butch got hold of, the Exodus acetate/test press, an even rarer piece if rumours of at least another Bunky copy out there.

[boba]

I had a feeling it wouldn't reach the prices some expected. Maybe the fact it's simply a variant, albeit very very rare one, and available for helluva lot less played it's part? Plus you had to be there I bet the winning bidder is happy and even happier it didn't fetch a lot more which it could quite easily have done.

when records hit huge prices it's usually two people knocking it up, otherwise it goes much lower. probably a case of one very high bidder without another to match it.

[Northernguy]

I had a feeling it wouldn't reach the prices some expected. Maybe the fact it's simply a variant, albeit very very rare one, and available for helluva lot less played it's part? Plus you had to be there I bet the winning bidder is happy and even happier it didn't fetch a lot more which it could quite easily have done.

I wouldn't mind it in my collection though but I was genuinely more excited over the one Butch got hold of, the Exodus acetate/test press, an even rarer piece if rumours of at least another Bunky copy out there.

Richard Searling had or still has white label Bunky FACT.

Alan

[dthedrug]

Thanks to John for clearing his posting up, and his apology whether warranted or not.

Why did i throw a minor eppy?

For the last twenty+ years I've collected records, often with many of the old school collectors looking down on me because I never went to Wigan or even Stafford.

In the past I've had sales boxes closed on me because the seller thought I was too young or 'clueless' all because I wasn't 'there' at the time.

So phrases like "proper" and "time-served" used in respect to someone just because they've been on the Planet a few years more get right on my Goat.

Apologies to John for any offence I may have caused him, but not for my annoyance at what appeared to be more of the same old....

I'd still rather have the Constellation issue and the Thai Pro and Crack Cocaine bender though, but maybe that's because I'm too young and clueless to appreciate the utter c"kstiffening magnificence and cum-worthyness of the Bunky issue...

HI ALL JUST FOR THE RECORD...."BEING A ROCK STAR, IS NOT WHAT IT'S CRACKED UP TO BE" IF YOU CACH THE DRIFT? YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THIS "CRACK USERS NEED TREATMENNT" ??? MY MATHS SAY IF YOU HAD THE WHITE DEMO AND SPENT THE REST ON CRACK , THE BUNKY COPY WOULD END UP AS THE REAL DEAL/

Whatever the finishing price is, is not the point, it is still one of the worlds top rare soul records, Plus you have to add into the equation, that the Frank Wilson record is a MOTOWN record, as such being a MOTOWN record it has world market appeal, the same can be said about Reggae, Northern Soul Market is a much smaller market, and thats a fact,

Nolan Chance Just Like The Wheather on BUNKY IS worth £4k and upwards and in a differant class than Frank Wilson Which has been released! Not in the states but on the famous UK black TAMLA MOTOWN LABEL, plus it was BOOTED,

GOOD LUCK JOHN and dont take the Bait,:ph34r:Mister Kilworth

[Chalky]

HI ALL JUST FOR THE RECORD...."BEING A ROCK STAR, IS NOT WHAT IT'S CRACKED UP TO BE" IF YOU CACH THE DRIFT? YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THIS "CRACK USERS NEED TREATMENNT" ??? MY MATHS SAY IF YOU HAD THE WHITE DEMO AND SPENT THE REST ON CRACK , THE BUNKY COPY WOULD END UP AS THE REAL DEAL/

Whatever the finishing price is, is not the point, it is still one of the worlds top rare soul records, Plus you have to add into the equation, that the Frank Wilson record is a MOTOWN record, as such being a MOTOWN record it has world market appeal, the same can be said about Reggae, Northern Soul Market is a much smaller market, and thats a fact,

Nolan Chance Just Like The Wheather on BUNKY IS worth £4k and upwards and in a differant class than Frank Wilson Which has been released! Not in the states but on the famous UK black TAMLA MOTOWN LABEL, plus it was BOOTED,

GOOD LUCK JOHN and dont take the Bait , Mister Kilworth

You say Nolan Chance different to Frank Wilson cause FW got released, well so did the Nolan Chance (as you will know), and as said they used the same plates for the Constellation and Bunky press. I agree it's different class though.

You say it's worth £4k upwards, it isn't it's worth just under £2700. And given John's record of achieving higher prices via his auction one wonders if it would have even made that anywhere else?

[bri pinch]

PROBABLY NOT CHALKY, BUT THEN AGAIN WE MAY NOT WITNESS THIS RECORD IN THIS VARIANT FOR SALE ANY WHERE SOON TO FIND OUT

BRI PINCH

Edited July 7, 2011 by bri pinch