Honestly Why Buy Boots Or Pressings Etc Etc

[Guest Bearsy]

why do people buy boots pressings etc etc ???? is it to dj with or just to put in a record box to play at home ???? or is there other reasons im just interested to know

im not asking why other people think why people buy them just for those that have bought them and their reasoning

[Ian Dewhirst]

why do people buy boots pressings etc etc ???? is it to dj with or just to put in a record box to play at home ???? or is there other reasons im just interested to know

im not asking why other people think why people buy them just for those that have bought them and their reasoning

Saves getting your arse pounded at the docks as just one handy example?

Ian D

[Dave Pinch]

i can understand why people buy them for home use when on a small budget and you cant afford originals. after all you cant beat the feeling of vinyl in your hand... but thats about it

dave

[Chalky]

do we really need two topics running about this? You could ask that question in the other topic.

[Pete S]

Most of my own personal American Northern Soul records are pressings or reissues. They're mine, I play them a lot here at home, they hold so many memories and I don't care what label they're on. The fact that I've had most of them on original at some point in time is neither here nor there, I have to sell the originals as it's my only income so I'm happy with my little collection. But in answer to the question, I buy them because they are a cheap way of getting my favourite records on vinyl.

[Simsy]

why do people buy boots pressings etc?

Because they're cheaper.

[Cunnie]

Because they like to cheat not only themselves but also the artists, producers etc.

Also because they like to line the pockets of the criminals who make the counterfeit records.

[Guest]

Because they like to cheat not only themselves but also the artists, producers etc.

Also because they like to line the pockets of the criminals who make the counterfeit records.

slight flaw on this worthy line being that the 'Artists' and 'producers' never see a penny out of the sale of Northern Soul originals....They might have made a few bob when the record first got released - if they were lucky and had their royalities/publishing sorted but if you can show me one record dealer who sells a Northern Original for 200 quid and then sends a percentage of that to the original Artist, my whole view of the world will change overnight! The whole point of records being supposedly worth big sums is because they are so rare and as such, Artists and Producers are never going to earn from their sale between collectors and Dealers on a scene like ours...

[Cunnie]

slight flaw on this worthy line being that the 'Artists' and 'producers' never see a penny out of the sale of Northern Soul originals....They might have made a few bob when the record first got released - if they were lucky and had their royalities/publishing sorted but if you can show me one record dealer who sells a Northern Original for 200 quid and then sends a percentage of that to the original Artist, my whole view of the world will change overnight! The whole point of records being supposedly worth big sums is because they are so rare and as such, Artists and Producers are never going to earn from their sale between collectors and Dealers on a scene like ours...

Point is though the artists did see a percentage when the legitimate product was first released.

Also some of the bootleggers (without mentioning names) have also ran legal re-issue labels.

Now if a record is legally re-issued some of the profit could be sent to the artist if done properly. Sadly though a lot of these re-issuers (not all though) just send the minimum they need to to someone like ascap or something similar.

As for the second hand argument, when you bought your second hand car did you write out a cheque to the manufacturer? Thought not...

[Simon M]

why do people buy boots pressings etc etc ???? is it to dj with or just to put in a record box to play at home ???? or is there other reasons im just interested to know

im not asking why other people think why people buy them just for those that have bought them and their reasoning

yep theres no need to splash out loads on boot legs or carvups . Just get low quality Mp3's for free and use CDR's , laptops or even mobile phones

Edited July 24, 2011 by Simon M

[Guest sharmo 1]

Hi there , there seems to be differant levels of Pressings/Boot's or reissues.people like collecting records (record collectors) and although would like to own an original are faced with a few problems,firstly price for instance something that goes for a grand on original represents an impossible amount of cash to find when other priories are more pressing food, house keeping and running a car.Secondly a reissue give's a collector the opertunity to by the record now and not have to wait a decade for the record to become available.Regarding who get's what in money terms to be fair a second hand copie of something like "show me how to love" on soul fox or something is irrelivant as it's lost in time , not phisicly but it's that far back there's nothing any one can do .I was talking to Rita graham at Prestatyn and She was asking about "gone with the wind" on Destany well what could I say ? it's that far back in time i can't see as any one can do a lot about it.I'd like to point out at this stage that I'm not casting any kind of doubt on the legality of "Gone with the wind" I'm just saying that she said that she didn't get any money from it and was wanting information on it.No disrespect Kev it's just an obsevation on a conversation .When dealing with the Kent,numero ,Tramp , soul junction type reissues these are fully licenced and all dues paid , I spoke to Ady once about this and He told me that Ace spend a lot of time and money making sure all the release's are of an inpecable reputation and total legal and that all monies are paid to the owners of the work.So surely this is a good thing firstly modern reissues are usually made at high quality pressing plants and are great quality and someone get's a cheque out of the blue for something they did thirty years ago and probably more importantly recognition for there work, that has to be a good thing.So in reality people who buy reissues are really keeping thing alive last night I sold a couple of copies of the mystics "put out the fire " a couple of copies of Annette Poindexter "wayward Dream" and the Illusions "just an illusion"to people who had never heard them befor so last night six people's musical intelect became expanded quite frankly I can't see the problem with indevidual people buying what they like .All the best Si.

[Pete S]

Because they like to cheat not only themselves but also the artists, producers etc.

Also because they like to line the pockets of the criminals who make the counterfeit records.

You haven't got a clue have you.

[Ian Parker]

Rita & the Tiaras on Destiny is ?

a: legitimate

b: Bootleg

I have no idea, hence the question

[Guest]

Did artist's get money's for all them demo's ? the Philly int artists must be rolling in money, just wanna' make sure before i play out again !!

[Kjw]

I wouldn't have though any artist received any money for demo's as there was no revenue generated - they were given away

[Guest]

I wouldn't have though any artist received any money for demo's as there was no revenue generated - they were given away

So we can't play them now ?

[Kjw]

There's various reasons why people buy bootlegs / re-issues -

They want a collection simply for the memories and don't want to pay today's prices for the originals

They can't afford the original

They don't know the difference between an original and bootleg

They've just come back on the scene since the 70's and decide they want their 15 minutes of fame as a DJ

They don't care about the ethics regarding originals v bootlegs

Everyone is different and it will never be the case where 100% agree

[Ian Dewhirst]

Did artist's get money's for all them demo's ? the Philly int artists must be rolling in money, just wanna' make sure before i play out again !!

Nope. Demos are royalty free because they're used for promotion. Bear in mind that 98% of all new releases lose money, it's only the 2% that actually sell that make anything for anybody. It's a high-risk game for everybody so rewards are slim unless you have a genuine big seller.

Ian D

[Guest Bearsy]

Legit re-issues are what they say they are legit and i see nothing wrong with buying those but im asking the question about illegal boots and knowing they illegal boots and why do peeps buy them. if you bought 100 boots at say a tenner each then that adds up to a lot of money and just how many originals can you buy for that amount even if it was just 1 biggie, i want loads of big money tunes but cant afford them but have most on me pc and loads on CDs so i can still enjoy listening to them, i cant see the point in paying good money out on them when they are not real and would rather spend the money on great cheapies or just save like mad and hope 1 day i do get me hands on that elusive want,

djs who buy boots to dj with is it about giving the crowd what they want or is it about making yourself look good behind the decks cos i went to a soul night last night all on origianl and most of the tunes probably 75% were way under £100 and many the same price of a boot and everyone had a great night with a busy dance floor and it seems the crowd got what they want from djs with a bit of imagination and deep collections, yes there was some big money tunes to that got played but they was defo in the minority and i come home from there with 2 wants and one i picked up for $15 and the other willl cost no more than £30 and was the best 2 tunes of the night for me and they both filled the dance floor,

if they are just for playing at home then wouldnt it be easier and cheaper to just just play on a cd or ipod

Chalky i do think this thread is different from any others cos its a direct question to the reasoning for the buying of boots and not what people think of them etc etc

not a problem if you want me to close the thread and i hope it dont turn into the usual slagging of original v boots but i wont hold me breath on that

[Kjw]

So we can't play them now ?

You can do what you want Ken - unless you think something really bad may happen to you

[Guest Bearsy]

There's various reasons why people buy bootlegs / re-issues -

They want a collection simply for the memories and don't want to pay today's prices for the originals

They can't afford the original

They don't know the difference between an original and bootleg

They've just come back on the scene since the 70's and decide they want their 15 minutes of fame as a DJ

They don't care about the ethics regarding originals v bootlegs

Everyone is different and it will never be the case where 100% agree

its not about agreeing keith its just asking the question of why does anyone as an individual buy boots

Edited July 24, 2011 by Bearsy

[Kjw]

its not about agreeing keith its just asking the question of why do you as an individual buy boots

Hi Bearsy

I don't buy boots and my names not Keith

[Guest Bearsy]

Hi Bearsy

I don't buy boots and my names not Keith

oops mistook you for someone else sorry

im not saying you do buy boots i was just stating what the thread is about thats all

ps, ive just edited that post it did come accross wrong sorry

Edited July 24, 2011 by Bearsy

[Cunnie]

You haven't got a clue have you.

Why's that Pete?

[Guest Bearsy]

Why's that Pete?

can we please stay on topic and if you need to discuss further can you do via pm please

sorry couldnt help meself Cunnie

[Kjw]

oops mistook you for someone else sorry

im not saying you do buy boots i was just stating what the thread is about thats all

ps, ive just edited that post it did come accross wrong sorry

No problem - on a serious note though I listed various reasons why people do buy them

[Guest sharmo 1]

Regarding Rita it's either one or the other !!!!!

[Winnie :-)]

People buy bootlegs because they want to have a certain record and can't afford an original. As long as they're not DJ'ing with it, I can't really see why anybody would have a problem with that, which always ends up the crux of these debates. A collector/OVO DJ isn't just looking for things he/she likes, they're experimenting listening to things they don't know, trying to find out if they think they're suitable. A pressing collector is in some small way sticking with the ''vinyl'' ethic of the scene, but only buying stuff he or she likes, and for their own entertainment.

[Guest Bearsy]

No problem - on a serious note though I listed various reasons why people do buy them

i know you did but it would be great to hear from those that actually buy them the resons why they do buy them

[Guest Matt Male]

I have no idea why people buy bootlegs or carvers. If I want to listen to music at home I listen to CDs or digitally, if I have to DJ (rarely) I play originals. The only vinyl I listen to at home is that I can't get on CD, Youtube or elsewhere, which is pretty uncommon thesedays and i'd say everything that has been booted is available elsewhere because it's always the common stuff.

I have bought carvers and boots many years ago, but for the life of me I can't think why I bothered, i've never played them at home and i've never played them out and most of the originals I play are cheaper than boots anyway, so it's wasting valuable money for originals when buying boots.

Sorry Bearsy, can't help with the question.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Matt Male

[Steve G]

Very naive to think the singers always benefit from either original vinyl or legal reissues. Writers and producers may do however many smaller labels, and also many larger labels just gave a flat fee at time of recording - come in, lay the tracks down, here's $20, don't call us, we'll call you, bye bye. I've spoken to countless artists who never even knew their recordings even came out.

Anyway not going to debate it all again Bearsy, people buy what they want to buy, whether that's an imitation watch or a pressing. V different from Djing with them as far as I am concerned. that said most stuff is now available on CD and download so better for 'em to buy 'em in that format but I am not going to get hung up about it.

[Pete S]

People buy bootlegs because they want to have a certain record and can't afford an original. As long as they're not DJ'ing with it, I can't really see why anybody would have a problem with that, which always ends up the crux of these debates. A collector/OVO DJ isn't just looking for things he/she likes, they're experimenting listening to things they don't know, trying to find out if they think they're suitable. A pressing collector is in some small way sticking with the ''vinyl'' ethic of the scene, but only buying stuff he or she likes, and for their own entertainment.

Pin this, exactly what I was saying, vinyl is totally different to 'owning' an mp3 or a cd Matt, you can hold it and look at it for a start.

I've got more original records than a lot of people will ever see, but as I said, my own personal collection of favoutites is pressings, reissues and bootlegs. So what.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Pete S

[Amsterdam Russ]

Why buy bootlegs when you can strip an mp3 out of a YouTube video for free..?

[KevH]

Hi Bearsy

I don't buy boots and my names not Keith

My names not Keith also.

Buy pressings/boots to play at home for parties,bar-b cues etc.

[Simon M]

Why buy bootlegs when you can strip an mp3 out of a YouTube video for free..?

Yeah this is a question that should be answered . Why buy a vinyl bootleg or carver , they cost !

Edited July 24, 2011 by Simon M

[Pete S]

Why buy bootlegs when you can strip an mp3 out of a YouTube video for free..?

If you can't tell why someone would prefer a 7" piece of vinyl to a computer file, I give up.

You can't play an mp3 on a turntable for a start.

The scene is built around RECORDS.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Pete S

[Amsterdam Russ]

My point Pete, is that in these modern times dodgy 45s are not the only means through which songs that one might otherwise not be able to afford or find can be obtained. How many tracks have you got on your harddrive, for example? And what percentage of those came from the internet for 'free'?

That's not a personal pop at you, Pete. Why restrict the discussion to illegal pressings of 7" discs when music is available illegally in so many other formats nowadays? Digital bootlegging is more prevalent than record bootlegging, that's for sure.

Hands up if you've never downloaded a song or CD from the internet for 'free'! What's the difference then between an illegally pressed 45 and an illegal posted mp3?

[Pete S]

It would be impossible to say how many tracks I've got on hard drives and discs etc. I know there's about 22,000 in my itunes currently. I would say that I imported around 2000 cd's of my own into it, the rest have come from the internet.

[Marc Forrest]

Why restrict the discussion to illegal pressings of 7" discs when music is available illegally in so many other formats nowadays? Digital bootlegging is more prevalent than record bootlegging, that's for sure.

never thought about it, but I think that is not only a very good point raised but also one that definitely needs to be talked about indeed. when I post sth for example on facebook I always only post files I or a guest DJ has the record of (in order to promote the next allnighter)...BUT...just what if you have a file of one song that you also have the original 45 of ...then sell the 45..still keep the file though...to be 100% sober you would have to delete the file, wouldnt you ? Isnt it also illegal music distribution when you post file(s) of your own records on the internet where 1000s of other people can and will listen to it even quite possibly download it on their own home computer ?

[Billywhizz]

Rita & the Tiaras on Destiny is ?

a: legitimate

b: Bootleg

I have no idea, hence the question

its a nice kind of bootleg on Destiny,plays better then the real ,thing

[Pete S]

never thought about it, but I think that is not only a very good point raised but also one that definitely needs to be talked about indeed. when I post sth for example on facebook I always only post files I or a guest DJ has the record of (in order to promote the next allnighter)...BUT...just what if you have a file of one song that you also have the original 45 of ...then sell the 45..still keep the file though...to be 100% sober you would have to delete the file, wouldnt you ? Isnt it also illegal music distribution when you post file(s) of your own records on the internet where 1000s of other people can and will listen to it even quite possibly download it on their own home computer ?

Maybe it depends on what you do with the file? With the files I download, I make cd's to play in the car mainly. Or I use some of them on podcasts - which I don't charge for. You could argue that by including a track on a podcast, people become aware of it and may well try and find it on a cd.

[Marc Forrest]

maybe indeed its two seperate worlds...the vinyl and the virtual world. For example I dont think the widely available soundfiles and youtube links of say The Ravins hasnt done any (sales) harm to the current Kent 45...maybe even quite the opposite it may have created interest in said song ? But thats onyl how one vinyl-collector may look at it..a judge or a jury may see this again totally different ?

[Modernsoulsucks]

Russell,

Bloody good post.

Gotta be honest and say I was feeling a little smug in that I have no axe to grind about collecting or playing boots whilst only collecting OVO myself {OK I have JR "..pick a rose" and Mayfield Singers as both unavailable on legit vinyl]. But I have recently been shown how to download onto CD off You Tube and I've done myself quite a few CDs of tracks I like but haven't got [in the main]. Im guessing quite a few of those are on legit CDs, although I haven't checked.

If other OVO-ers are doing the same then as Pete says the 45 boot is merely a matter of format.

ROD

[steve]

Legit re-issues are what they say they are legit and i see nothing wrong with buying those but im asking the question about illegal boots and knowing they illegal boots and why do peeps buy them. if you bought 100 boots at say a tenner each then that adds up to a lot of money and just how many originals can you buy for that amount even if it was just 1 biggie, i want loads of big money tunes but cant afford them but have most on me pc and loads on CDs so i can still enjoy listening to them, i cant see the point in paying good money out on them when they are not real and would rather spend the money on great cheapies or just save like mad and hope 1 day i do get me hands on that elusive want,

djs who buy boots to dj with is it about giving the crowd what they want or is it about making yourself look good behind the decks cos i went to a soul night last night all on origianl and most of the tunes probably 75% were way under £100 and many the same price of a boot and everyone had a great night with a busy dance floor and it seems the crowd got what they want from djs with a bit of imagination and deep collections, yes there was some big money tunes to that got played but they was defo in the minority and i come home from there with 2 wants and one i picked up for $15 and the other willl cost no more than £30 and was the best 2 tunes of the night for me and they both filled the dance floor,

if they are just for playing at home then wouldnt it be easier and cheaper to just just play on a cd or ipod

Chalky i do think this thread is different from any others cos its a direct question to the reasoning for the buying of boots and not what people think of them etc etc

not a problem if you want me to close the thread and i hope it dont turn into the usual slagging of original v boots but i wont hold me breath on that

I got about 40/50 boots which I got in the mid 70s and a few in the 90s, its was the only way to get a record that was big at the time, they cost anything from about 50p to £1.25.

I would never sell them, they were a part of what I loved, they were a part of the scene, everyone got them then.

I think the same applies today, we never had E-bay or soul source then for information about a certain record or whether it was original or not, you saw a record in someone box, 'asked how much' the deal was done,

never had any Intention of 'ripping anyone off' like artist, writers, producers etc, it just didn't enter my (our) heads

This is in my opinion only

How many times have we seen on here, someone asking if its a real one or not, sometimes we get 'ripped off too'

[Guest soul over easy]

Most of my own personal American Northern Soul records are pressings or reissues. They're mine, I play them a lot here at home, they hold so many memories and I don't care what label they're on. The fact that I've had most of them on original at some point in time is neither here nor there, I have to sell the originals as it's my only income so I'm happy with my little collection. But in answer to the question, I buy them because they are a cheap way of getting my favourite records on vinyl.

same here mate my colection is a mix bag of ovo ,reissues and pressings,i buy songs that i love and have grown up with over the years for my own personal satisfaction,but having listened to some folks on here i am now trying to get an original first if its in my budget,if not will settle for the next best thing...ktf

[Pete S]

same here mate my colection is a mix bag of ovo ,reissues and pressings,i buy songs that i love and have grown up with over the years for my own personal satisfaction,but having listened to some folks on here i am now trying to get an original first if its in my budget,if not will settle for the next best thing...ktf

It's a bit different for me cos my job is actual selling original records, so much as I would like to have a fantastic collection of originals, I can't afford to keep them so they come in one door and out the other. As Steve says above, this is what we did in the 70's, wait for the top sounds to come out for a quid, I kept most of mine and they do me fine for playing at home. If someone said to me come and do a spot at our do, it's original vinyl only, of course I could do it easily, just playing good originals, but they'd be completely different records to the ones I've owned for 30 odd years.

It'd be a sad day if you get persuaded to do something just because someone on here says you should though!

[Guest soul over easy]

Because they like to cheat not only themselves but also the artists, producers etc.

Also because they like to line the pockets of the criminals who make the counterfeit records.

not quite true am pretty sure if i buy an original the artist isnt going to se a penny of it and id love the artist to recieve something,ive heard some terrible stories about some of the artists its a real shame,but i think in reality the people making the money must be the persons selling them? it is great to own an original but if i couldnt afford it i would settle for the next best thing,but thats me and we know a lot of people on here save hard for that ovo theyre chasing and i do believe he or she also deserves some credit for there dedication ...ktf

[Cunnie]

not quite true am pretty sure if i buy an original the artist isnt going to se a penny of it and id love the artist to recieve something,ive heard some terrible stories about some of the artists its a real shame,but i think in reality the people making the money must be the persons selling them? it is great to own an original but if i couldnt afford it i would settle for the next best thing,but thats me and we know a lot of people on here save hard for that ovo theyre chasing and i do believe he or she also deserves some credit for there dedication ...ktf

Next best thing. Assume you mean a bootleg is the next best thing.

Surely it's better to own a legitimate re-issue or even a copy on a legal cd or a legal download than an illegal counterfeit.

[Guest]

i recently bought count the days by the magnetics on a pressing for a tenner, it works fine & with the 3 grand that i saved by not buying the original i bought a car, simple logic

[Pete S]

Next best thing. Assume you mean a bootleg is the next best thing.

Surely it's better to own a legitimate re-issue or even a copy on a legal cd or a legal download than an illegal counterfeit.

Better for who? What if you've got some obscure one shot record on a one shot label, nobody knows who owns it, so you're going to cut off your nose to spite your face and not own a copy in any format? Just so's you can sleep soundly at night? Jesus, 100 people got shot in Norway at the weekend, that sort of thing is important, not this trivial rubbish.