The General State Of Our Beloved Soul Scene

[mrs soul]

As a life server for my sins, and as a punter, promoter, collector, and hopefully DJ, the scene is an ever changing one, sometimes for the good , but most times not would I would like. for the most part. what I really cant get my head round, and it really displeases me , why some people feel the need , to put down ,or go out of there way to have ago, or make a nasty dig, on forums, about other people, I know its all part of a healthy debate, however, sometimes it gets very personal, I thought we where all in this to-gether? for the greater good. to hear fantastic music, to send that shiver up your back ect, to be enlightened, to go out and just have a bloody good time,As someone said to me a long time ago, the scene is very tribal, which is true, of course I understand that we all have our favourite venues, theirs no shame in that, I for one, have mine. and make no bones about it, BUT..its getting worse IMO.The scene is over saturated, week by week even more nites, niters, DJ,s, at the end of the day, each and all have every right to DJ or promote, and the days when we was all youngsters.adorning our big name Dj s have long gone. Good thing or bad thing? we are getting older, of course, dying, illness , all these things impact on us all. There is a younger generation, waiting to fill the shoes of us old school soulies,and I think the scene will be very different in 10 or twenty years time, it has to evolve, for all things do.Yes I know all about the you pat my back I will pat yours, that will never change, Tit for tat DJing always goes on and it allways will.And I know some people will never get on! But I still ask the question why? Beasys made a comment about my passion and that's why I have decided to post up this thread, and for no other reason.......

[Julie Moore]

Unfortunatly Lou , that is the scene of today .............so many styles coming into it ............its not just banging northern anymore ........there is rare, underplayed, oldies , you still got the jazz funky stuff ,remixes on remixes, Modern soul, the list goes on & on. more dj`s popping up having a go ...........no disrespect to any of them .but it was great in the days when you got really really excited going out to listen too the big names out there.

And the punters seem to change ........E.g I was at a soul do last week and i was talking to a chap in the main oldies room we were disgussing the dj who was on and i made a comment that some of what he was playing couldn`t possibly be originals ...............his answer was "doesn`t matter if its on cd its still a great record" .................but maybe thats another thread ........but thats my point in MVHO it will get worse before it gets better i can`t myself see the youngsters of today wanting to get into the scene .but you never know............ I have grown up children 2 in their 30`s who had Soul music as a way of life when they were younger .....they bloody hate it now . I go to quite a few across the board nights now as i too love all the aspects of the soul scene and people do change their taste in music .......Some people on the scene do stick to their own and think their stuff is the best and slag the rest off and the venues you attend .............i say let them i know what i like and until i get pissed off with it all I`ll keep doing what i do and enjoy doing it I suppose thats the weird and wonderful world of Northern soul

Regards

Julie

Edited September 6, 2011 by Julie Moore

[Guest Bearsy]

Lou ive only been in the scene 6/7 years and cant beleive the change in that time and the last few events ive attended have left me totally disilusioned with the scene today, best keep me thoughts to meself right now but want to thank all those good peeps that i class as great friends for the fun and frolics ive had and hopefully see you all again sometime again

keep smiling Lou

[Chalky]

Too many promoters care little for the bigger picture (the scene in general) and only care about them selves. Some aren't happy with one night per weekend they want two and want to run something every week. They don't care about clashing either, same for many all-nighter promoters. When they can't get the night they want, rather than not bother or postpone they simply clash with someone else often long standing promotions, often not caring for the consequences.

There is a lot of apathy right now, especially from those who have been around without a break, fed up with dwindling attendances, same old records week in week out, many don't want newies but by the same token they don't want the same top 100 every week, many quality records ignored simply because a DJ and promoter play safe with guaranteed floor packers you hear every week.

Friday nights are getting less and less feasible for an all-nighter, those that are promoted on a Friday all too often suffer with dwindling attendances. Many reasons, work, family. The cost of living which is just rising and rising also have=ing a effect with many simply staying nearer home. That leaves just the Saturday night to squeeze everything in and with soul nights also extending their hours this is having an effect on the all-nighter scene. I personally don't think there will be an all-nighter scene as we now know it in a few years.

Look at the age of all-nighter goers……the majority the wrong side of 40/50. The youngsters just aren't there, I don't care what others say. Some nights might be doing well with venues fill of youngsters but they tend to be city centre venues and soul nights only, they don't tend to do the all-nighter circuit. Who can blame them, some decent music, free drinks, good laugh with people their own age, some sleep and the facet they have the next day and it isn't wasted by being a cabbage all day long.

Something has to give and soon. Promoters will have to start thinking about the bigger picture, some will have to think about what they are doing and is it for the benefit of the scene of themselves. They will have to decide if it is detrimental to the scene then we will postpone rather than move and clash. I doubt it will happen because humans are by and large selfish. I keep seeing the excuse well we are 100 odd miles apart and music policy is different, b&ll*cks!! We are all into Rare Soul, all chasing the same crowd.

Promoters will have to start showing some balls, introduce a few Dj's who can advance things, I'm not talking about new music all night or even a large part of the night but to strike a balance and freshen things up a little, maybe something different every 3 or 4 records, I mean 5 records in a set lasting an hour is f&ck all, dancers should show a little patience and realise not every record will be to their liking and that someone else might just be liking what they don't. I've been looking at playlists for several venues, boring boring boring....many good rare records but simply boring play lists, you hear them all the time. A Dj who spends a fortune will always get the bookings yet a DJ who plays good imaginative sets (I don't mean upfront either, oldies included in this) without resorting to the cheque book is always over looked.

I fear though it is too late and that we are past the tipping point.

[Guest gordon russell]

Said this a thousand times it,s down to integrity a lot of the time........when a lot of promoters/dj,s take the piss they should be sidelined,but they never are.There are too many dj,s who never go to venues as a punter too many promoters who want everyone at their venue,but won,t drive 10 mins up the road. People on the scene just ignore this kind of behavoir. 2years ago there was a big alldayer in this area run by a fella who for the rest of the year supports nobody,his alldayer was for a cancer charity not only did he not give any cash to the charity he tried to ignore it on this site,when l and others asked the question "wheres the money " he became abusive and had the thread closed and never came on the site til just before his alldayer the next year. My point is dj,s were queing up to dj for him again never mind the charity money and guess what not for charity this time. NO INTEGRITY as long as they get a spot. There are loads of local promoters/djs in my area who attend NO ONE elses venues but their own these guys should be shunned what are they doing for the scene? nowt.

As far as the nighter scene goes the proper nighter scene should close ranks become more like the clubs of old ie if you wanna be part of that music this or that club is the only place to hear such stuff.....the top dj,s should stop djing at venues where the promoters have nowt to do with the rest of the scene. include lesser known dj,s who actually like the music

Return to the days where theres a bit of mystique.....smaller more intimate clubs with folk in em that want to be there. What i,m trying to say in all this is theres to much dishonesty overlooked and that is whats wrong........everything is overlooked with the phrase "he,s alright" that may be ,but if they ain,t tell em...........tezza

[pikeys dog]

Bring back the late 80s/early 90s , those were the best years for me.

Smaller venues with everyone all in one room.

Plenty of oldies mixed in with 'Newies' and one-offs.

One big Allnighter per Month/Fortnight

One 'big' local Saturday Soul Night per month per major city - none of this 9 nights per county with under 50 punters per venue.

Promotors who dignt DJ at other folks venues, so you didnt get the "you do mine, I'll do yours".

DJs being brought in from other counties, not just Tom, Dick and Harry from a quarter of a mile away.

Unfortunately none of this will happen until 50% of the 'returnees' feck back off.

[Daved]

The scene is disappearing up its own arse. It's too fractured, too much back criticism between folk, not enough patience for other's tastes or views, the punters are getting older, the music is getting ancient and with improving technology it's easier than ever to hear the music in some shape or form without having to leave your house. A diminishing number are interested in collecting records.It ceased to be trendy, exciting or underground quite a long time ago.

The differentiation should be the experience and enjoyment factor on a night out. People can't be bothered to travel far, local soul nights can be ok but generally not very good. It's incredible that it's lasted this long but there's no point worrying about it. It'll carry on with a small number ageing diehards continuing to have a good time.

Edited September 7, 2011 by daved

[Guest Bearsy]

Too many promoters care little for the bigger picture (the scene in general) and only care about them selves. Some aren't happy with one night per weekend they want two and want to run something every week. They don't care about clashing either, same for many all-nighter promoters. When they can't get the night they want, rather than not bother or postpone they simply clash with someone else often long standing promotions, often not caring for the consequences.

There is a lot of apathy right now, especially from those who have been around without a break, fed up with dwindling attendances, same old records week in week out, many don't want newies but by the same token they don't want the same top 100 every week, many quality records ignored simply because a DJ and promoter play safe with guaranteed floor packers you hear every week.

Friday nights are getting less and less feasible for an all-nighter, those that are promoted on a Friday all too often suffer with dwindling attendances. Many reasons, work, family. The cost of living which is just rising and rising also have=ing a effect with many simply staying nearer home. That leaves just the Saturday night to squeeze everything in and with soul nights also extending their hours this is having an effect on the all-nighter scene. I personally don't think there will be an all-nighter scene as we now know it in a few years.

Look at the age of all-nighter goers……the majority the wrong side of 40/50. The youngsters just aren't there, I don't care what others say. Some nights might be doing well with venues fill of youngsters but they tend to be city centre venues and soul nights only, they don't tend to do the all-nighter circuit. Who can blame them, some decent music, free drinks, good laugh with people their own age, some sleep and the facet they have the next day and it isn't wasted by being a cabbage all day long.

Something has to give and soon. Promoters will have to start thinking about the bigger picture, some will have to think about what they are doing and is it for the benefit of the scene of themselves. They will have to decide if it is detrimental to the scene then we will postpone rather than move and clash. I doubt it will happen because humans are by and large selfish. I keep seeing the excuse well we are 100 odd miles apart and music policy is different, b&ll*cks!! We are all into Rare Soul, all chasing the same crowd.

Promoters will have to start showing some balls, introduce a few Dj's who can advance things, I'm not talking about new music all night or even a large part of the night but to strike a balance and freshen things up a little, maybe something different every 3 or 4 records, I mean 5 records in a set lasting an hour is f&ck all, dancers should show a little patience and realise not every record will be to their liking and that someone else might just be liking what they don't. I've been looking at playlists for several venues, boring boring boring....many good rare records but simply boring play lists, you hear them all the time. A Dj who spends a fortune will always get the bookings yet a DJ who plays good imaginative sets (I don't mean upfront either, oldies included in this) without resorting to the cheque book is always over looked.

I fear though it is too late and that we are past the tipping point.

great post Chalky

[Guest Bearsy]

Said this a thousand times it,s down to integrity a lot of the time........when a lot of promoters/dj,s take the piss they should be sidelined,but they never are.There are too many dj,s who never go to venues as a punter too many promoters who want everyone at their venue,but won,t drive 10 mins up the road. People on the scene just ignore this kind of behavoir. 2years ago there was a big alldayer in this area run by a fella who for the rest of the year supports nobody,his alldayer was for a cancer charity not only did he not give any cash to the charity he tried to ignore it on this site,when l and others asked the question "wheres the money " he became abusive and had the thread closed and never came on the site til just before his alldayer the next year. My point is dj,s were queing up to dj for him again never mind the charity money and guess what not for charity this time. NO INTEGRITY as long as they get a spot. There are loads of local promoters/djs in my area who attend NO ONE elses venues but their own these guys should be shunned what are they doing for the scene? nowt.

As far as the nighter scene goes the proper nighter scene should close ranks become more like the clubs of old ie if you wanna be part of that music this or that club is the only place to hear such stuff.....the top dj,s should stop djing at venues where the promoters have nowt to do with the rest of the scene. include lesser known dj,s who actually like the music

Return to the days where theres a bit of mystique.....smaller more intimate clubs with folk in em that want to be there. What i,m trying to say in all this is theres to much dishonesty overlooked and that is whats wrong........everything is overlooked with the phrase "he,s alright" that may be ,but if they ain,t tell em...........tezza

[soash]

The scene is disappearing up its own arse. It's too fractured.

The scene, unfortunately, has been fractured for a very long time now.

If a punter went to say, a rock night, or a folk night, or whatever happened to be his fancy, he/she would be pretty sure of hearing stuff they like, because most music genres are pretty specific.

But it a soul punter goes to a "Northern" venue, will he have any idea what is gonna be played?

A while back, a girl of perhaps 18 or 19 came up to the Dj booth and said to me "I thought you were gonna play some Northern Soul tonight?". The record that I was playing as she said that was "Losing Game" by James Carr. She'd never heard of it.

The term "northern" now tries to cover SO much different stuff, that folks listen to for many different reasons.

This is not helped by many so called DJs who are, in fact, simply record collectors. They don't play stuff cause it's good to dance to. They play it to impress fellow "collectors".

If there is one phrase which has been killing this music since it was first said, it is "It's really rare, so it MUST be good!"

A friend of mine, who DJs at a very well respected club, was telling me about the guy he had invited to the next session. "His collection is amazing", he enthused..."all his stuff is on Demo!"

My mate was a little nonplussed when I replied "So they'll be better to dance to, will they?"

If you wanna hear rare stuff, just cause it's rare - that's cool.

If you wanna hear modern stuff, just cause it's new - that's cool.

If you wanna hear "underplayed", just cause it never got played before - that's cool.

And if you wanna dance your head off to great dancers - that's cool.

But as long as we class it all under the same genre, folks are gonna continue to be confused. And the apathy and argument will continue until it kills the scene stone dead.

[Dave Pinch]

woeful..too much handbagging and people tryin to relive their youth ....we`re f**king submerged in it certainly where i`m from

dave

[Naughty Boy]

Bring back the late 80s/early 90s , those were the best years for me.

Smaller venues with everyone all in one room.

Plenty of oldies mixed in with 'Newies' and one-offs.

One big Allnighter per Month/Fortnight

One 'big' local Saturday Soul Night per month per major city - none of this 9 nights per county with under 50 punters per venue.

Promotors who dignt DJ at other folks venues, so you didnt get the "you do mine, I'll do yours".

DJs being brought in from other counties, not just Tom, Dick and Harry from a quarter of a mile away..

oooh happy days....... just one thing though .... its not 9 nights per county ..... its 4 and 5 per town in many cases now .........

[Winnie :-)]

The scene, unfortunately, has been fractured for a very long time now.

If a punter went to say, a rock night, or a folk night, or whatever happened to be his fancy, he/she would be pretty sure of hearing stuff they like, because most music genres are pretty specific.

But it a soul punter goes to a "Northern" venue, will he have any idea what is gonna be played?

A while back, a girl of perhaps 18 or 19 came up to the Dj booth and said to me "I thought you were gonna play some Northern Soul tonight?". The record that I was playing as she said that was "Losing Game" by James Carr. She'd never heard of it.

The term "northern" now tries to cover SO much different stuff, that folks listen to for many different reasons.

This is not helped by many so called DJs who are, in fact, simply record collectors. They don't play stuff cause it's good to dance to. They play it to impress fellow "collectors".

If there is one phrase which has been killing this music since it was first said, it is "It's really rare, so it MUST be good!"

A friend of mine, who DJs at a very well respected club, was telling me about the guy he had invited to the next session. "His collection is amazing", he enthused..."all his stuff is on Demo!"

My mate was a little nonplussed when I replied "So they'll be better to dance to, will they?"

If you wanna hear rare stuff, just cause it's rare - that's cool.

If you wanna hear modern stuff, just cause it's new - that's cool.

If you wanna hear "underplayed", just cause it never got played before - that's cool.

And if you wanna dance your head off to great dancers - that's cool.

But as long as we class it all under the same genre, folks are gonna continue to be confused. And the apathy and argument will continue until it kills the scene stone dead.

yeah, that sums it up quite nicely.

Plus we're getting older, can't dance for as long even with an enhanced experience, and if that was your thing, it's a big thing to lose. The internet also has a role, before it's inception, most views were word of mouth, now here it is for everybody to read, whether if be a positive or a negative, lots more people get reached. Same for events, they're put up on soul sites and again are read by a huge audience, there's rarely a bad review as most are written by friends of the venue, so you go along and it's not really what you expected. Maybe it's the British way, same as in restaurants,

''Did you enjoy the meal Sir''

''Most certainly''

the waiter doesn't ask why most of the food is still on the plate, and you don't want to tell him, and so the apathy continues

[Dekka]

What the hell is this 3 room shite all about?

One room with one identity, stop this, be all catch all, mentality.

Also, wake up to the real world, there's a fookin recession on for gods sake, peeps have to spend there money wisely.

Edited September 7, 2011 by dekka

[Naughty Boy]

What the hell is this 3 room shite all about?

One room with one identity, stop this, be all catch all, mentality.

Also, wake up to the real world, there's a fookin recession on for gods sake, peeps have to spend there money wisely.

thats how it used to be main room back in the day .... but oldies in a side room . Mr M's , Wintergardens Cleethorpes ,Back room at Samanthas and so on

[Dekka]

thats how it used to be main room back in the day .... but oldies in a side room . Mr M's , Wintergardens Cleethorpes ,Back room at Samanthas and so on

As I don't live in the past, reflecting on my glory days, I was thinking more present day (100 club, Burnley),

[Guest]

I think and its only my very small humble opinion is one word RESPECT !!! there is so much nastiness going on all the time , isnt it about the MUSIC ? Not whether he likes him or she likes her , if we all just get on and support each other as best we can then it would be a much nicer scene to be part of THE END

ps and the right Talc xxxx

[Naughty Boy]

As I don't live in the past, reflecting on my glory days, I was thinking more present day (100 club, Burnley),

me neither but was the main room back in the day driven by oldies or newies to use the term

[Dekka]

me neither but was the main room back in the day driven by oldies or newies to use the term

Give me Lifeline, Bidds, Burnley, 100 club anyday, but then again I'm a regular nighter person,

Have stopped doing, be all catch all, dross, be it weekenders or nights.

[KevH]

Too many venues that need to "fall on their sword",but are unaware of it.Know your place and understand when your time is up.

Lou,as long as there's records in your box (and Woody's) there's nothing to stop you having playing sessions round at friends or at home.Bottle of wine each, and rip the scene to bits.We do it every fortnight.Does you good.You'll end up planning your next night out before you know it.

Choose your venues wisely, and the people you mix with.Makes a hell of a difference if the music is a bit flaky in parts.Especially on the 2 hour drive home.

[Anais nin Carms]

Oh dear , such a dark picture you are all painting , funny thing is whenever I see any of you ( those that I know) you never look unhappy ?

Personally I don't like nighters anymore , I don't take substances to help me to stay awake/keep up and to be frank I find nighters a little seedy and intimidating .

I know for some this is all part of the experience , it's not for me though. I don't condem other peoples needs , we are all adult , but then I would expect them to respect my wishes to not to attend. I am no lightweight when it comes to soul , I just don't wish to be up all night as I have other things in life that I want to do with my time.

I would imagine thats what some nighter people call a lightweight ? or a handbagger ?

I much prefer a local do where I have got to know the people and have a proper discussion with them rather than be talked at and who also who have a passion to collect and share. I found a few clubs like this local to me so I guess I am very lucky.

There are those that put do's on that cater for the masses , in general I am not a big fan of these do's , I don't like large crowds, and I like to have room on the dancefloor. But I have found now that the collectors and chill out rooms are taking shape ( that has to be a massive plus ) it caters for my needs .

I don't begrudge those masses that "some" call handbaggers or the baggy trouser brigade their good time because its their money /entrance fees that have aided in the creation of the additional facility of the collectors room .

I think the buzz word should be tolerance , there is room for everyone

What I do loath is when people snipe at others because their belief/understanding of Northern soul differs to theirs.

I have no problem with a promoter making money , treating it as a business ...when you do something on a large scale it is a business , why people resent others for this I can't understand ? You don't go to work not to be paid ?

Edited September 7, 2011 by Carms

[Steve G]

BUT..its getting worse IMO.The scene is over saturated, week by week even more nites, niters,

And despite this mushrooming of venues, very little of what's within reasonable driving distance really appeals to me this weekend......

Edited September 7, 2011 by Steve G

[Len]

I fear though it is too late and that we are past the tipping point.

I think that point was about five years ago Chalky. In the 90's and before, not many people thought about D.Jing let alone promoting. Anyone can go on 'E' bay, buy some records then put a soul night on - It's a shame some don't realise it's just ading to the problem of a very diluted scene.

Yep, for me in general it's definatelly a broken soul scene.

I didn't want to post as I try not to think about it as it depresses me. It's never going to be the same, so best except it and try and make the most of wherever you choose to go.

All the best,

Len.

Edited September 7, 2011 by LEN

[Chalky]

The scene, unfortunately, has been fractured for a very long time now.

If a punter went to say, a rock night, or a folk night, or whatever happened to be his fancy, he/she would be pretty sure of hearing stuff they like, because most music genres are pretty specific.

But it a soul punter goes to a "Northern" venue, will he have any idea what is gonna be played?

A while back, a girl of perhaps 18 or 19 came up to the Dj booth and said to me "I thought you were gonna play some Northern Soul tonight?". The record that I was playing as she said that was "Losing Game" by James Carr. She'd never heard of it.

The term "northern" now tries to cover SO much different stuff, that folks listen to for many different reasons.

This is not helped by many so called DJs who are, in fact, simply record collectors. They don't play stuff cause it's good to dance to. They play it to impress fellow "collectors".

If there is one phrase which has been killing this music since it was first said, it is "It's really rare, so it MUST be good!"

The scene has been fractured since the mid 70's by all accounts so why is today any different. Different genres of what is termed Northern Soul have always been played, in the same room. As long as they are dancers what is the problem what then re it comes under? The last Stafford reunion was a perfect example of this with a full floor all night to right across the board soul music, Lifeline another example showing that an across the board policy can work and keep dancers happy.

The one phrase I've highlighted, what a load of tosh, the only people I hear using this is people like you on here in an attempt to further their argument. I never hear anyone at a venue coming out with this phrase. There is as much cheap sh*t played at venues as rare expensive records, as I said in another topic it is because they are rare that it is highlighted more.

And if an 18 year old comes and asks "I thought you were going to play some Northern Soul tonight" when James Carr is being played, well i think that says more about the venue than anything else.

Please don't turn this into another oldies vs. newies topic, the vast majority of venues are oldies so newies clearly aren't the problem and you usually find that the more upfront venues playing "newies" are frequented by like minded soulies not your average oldies fan.

[Chalky]

What the hell is this 3 room shite all about?

One room with one identity, stop this, be all catch all, mentality.

Also, wake up to the real world, there's a fookin recession on for gods sake, peeps have to spend there money wisely.

I'm not a fan of the multi room venues but many large room venues are a bit stale and side rooms are catering for those that want something different and are proving popular. As I said earlier it needs the promoters to show some metal and put it all on in one room, encourage DJ's to stretch their imagination and ignore those who simply stick to the tried and trusted hot box, boring!!

[Guest gordon russell]

, not many people thought about D.Jing let alone promoting. Anyone can go on 'E' bay, buy some records then put a soul night on - It's a shame some don't realise it's just ading to the problem of a very diluted scene.

trouble is len these are the promoters/dj,s that get the attendances ......and if their night folds so what they don,t attend anyone elses venue anyway can,t people see this.......nighter dj,s especially should make a collective decission these people are not attending our venues so they can,t expect us to dj at their venues......if people are saying "we don,t do nighters" then it stands to reason they don,t want nighter dj,s but thats not the case Quite happy to use the big dj,s name to swell their venues dance floor.

Go religiuosly to lifeline ,but get fed up with promoters from soul nights getting their mates to put out flyers on their behalf. The sh*ts can,t even be bothered to put em out themselves....the soul night promoter from rothwell is fond of this practise,also sent his flyers along to stewartby ....couldn,t be bothered to attend himself. IF YOU DON,T ATTEND A VENUE THEN NOR SHOULD YOUR FLYERS and nighter promoters should NOT LET EM DO IT........do unto them that which they do unto YOU

P.S sure this happens at a lot of other places other than just lifeline you get my point though sure some of you see it as perfectly o.k...............IT AIN,T we need recipriocal trading not one way piss taking

Edited September 7, 2011 by gordon russell

[Philt]

Too many promoters care little for the bigger picture (the scene in general) and only care about them selves. Some aren't happy with one night per weekend they want two and want to run something every week. They don't care about clashing either, same for many all-nighter promoters. When they can't get the night they want, rather than not bother or postpone they simply clash with someone else often long standing promotions, often not caring for the consequences.

There is a lot of apathy right now, especially from those who have been around without a break, fed up with dwindling attendances, same old records week in week out, many don't want newies but by the same token they don't want the same top 100 every week, many quality records ignored simply because a DJ and promoter play safe with guaranteed floor packers you hear every week.

Friday nights are getting less and less feasible for an all-nighter, those that are promoted on a Friday all too often suffer with dwindling attendances. Many reasons, work, family. The cost of living which is just rising and rising also have=ing a effect with many simply staying nearer home. That leaves just the Saturday night to squeeze everything in and with soul nights also extending their hours this is having an effect on the all-nighter scene. I personally don't think there will be an all-nighter scene as we now know it in a few years.

Look at the age of all-nighter goers……the majority the wrong side of 40/50. The youngsters just aren't there, I don't care what others say. Some nights might be doing well with venues fill of youngsters but they tend to be city centre venues and soul nights only, they don't tend to do the all-nighter circuit. Who can blame them, some decent music, free drinks, good laugh with people their own age, some sleep and the facet they have the next day and it isn't wasted by being a cabbage all day long.

Something has to give and soon. Promoters will have to start thinking about the bigger picture, some will have to think about what they are doing and is it for the benefit of the scene of themselves. They will have to decide if it is detrimental to the scene then we will postpone rather than move and clash. I doubt it will happen because humans are by and large selfish. I keep seeing the excuse well we are 100 odd miles apart and music policy is different, b&ll*cks!! We are all into Rare Soul, all chasing the same crowd.

Promoters will have to start showing some balls, introduce a few Dj's who can advance things, I'm not talking about new music all night or even a large part of the night but to strike a balance and freshen things up a little, maybe something different every 3 or 4 records, I mean 5 records in a set lasting an hour is f&ck all, dancers should show a little patience and realise not every record will be to their liking and that someone else might just be liking what they don't. I've been looking at playlists for several venues, boring boring boring....many good rare records but simply boring play lists, you hear them all the time. A Dj who spends a fortune will always get the bookings yet a DJ who plays good imaginative sets (I don't mean upfront either, oldies included in this) without resorting to the cheque book is always over looked.

I fear though it is too late and that we are past the tipping point.

Absolutely in a nutshell Chalky Lots of folk seem to think it's all about them I'm afraid, as DJs, promoters, punters or whatever. Never has been and never will be.

[Ralf Mehnert]

Sounds like most of you have a whale of a time!

[Billy Freemantle]

...Look at the age of all-nighter goers……the majority the wrong side of 40/50. The youngsters just aren't there...

I fear though it is too late and that we are past the tipping point.

I'm afraid when I look at photos and videos of soul events it reminds me of an old people's tea dance that I happened to see by chance in Llandudno in 1984.

[Guest geerox]

Interesting thread this, my love of Soul grew out of the 80s Hip Hop Scene, we didnt have many 'Soul' venues here in Belfast and certainly nothing like the big events on the Mainland, However there always has been a huge following of Soul over here just not 'the scene' to go with it. The thing I have noticed on many online Soul forums and sites is there seems to be a lot of anonmosity about, Ive seen internet radio stations with chatrooms resorting into chaos some of which had to pull the plug, This has bemused me somewhat because in all cases it has been my age group and older and they should really know better, unfortunately I have witnessed many an over inflated ego at work and this usually seems to be the root cause of any problems Ive encountered, the sad thing is that it puts many people off to the point they dont bother returning. As Afrika Bambaata once said, Peace, Unity, Love and having Fun, As far as im concerned thats some of the wisest words ever said.

[Steve L]

I'm afraid when I look at photos and videos of soul events it reminds me of an old people's tea dance that I happened to see by chance in Llandudno in 1984.

I'll bet you're still scarred by the experience as well?

True though, and its only going to get worse as old father time marches on. But thats the way of things and in the long term everything will shrink and deteriorate( ) naturally

The only solution is a cull, unless a good old fashioned plague comes along to speed things up

[Modernsoulsucks]

Billy F,

I was stood outside Burnley 3 or so years back at 3.30am in January, in the cold and damp,having a fag, wondering what I was doing really, when I spied coming up the street these two old blokes. I thought to myself WTF are these two doing wandering the streets at this time. If I weren't here I certainly wouldn't be trudging around Burnley.

They came into the allnighter.

Beginning of mid-life crisis. Do I look like that? I must do. Too old for this sh*t rapidly followed and haven't been out since except for the one occasion.

ROD

[Geeselad]

[

I thought the scene in the 8ts was far less fractured, due to how bloody small it was, remember Evison djing @ Blackburn anyone, most of the hardcore attended everywhere and anywhere just because it was the only event on that week in my recolection.

[Russ Vickers]

It will all be alright in the end, the true die hard soul fans rescued it back from the tourists & hand baggers at least once before & we will again, its all about the SOUL & I'm in this for the long haul.......

Russ

[Mace]

Sounds like most of you have a whale of a time!

[Guest in town Mikey]

I'm with Carms. I dont have any of the doom and gloom.

The choice is incredible. Rare known, old, new and new to me oldies.

But then I'm not a wanna be DJ, or promoter. So I dont have the worries about if there are enough to cover the rental of the hall etc.

You pays your money as a punter and you takes your choice. As Russ says. the cream will rise to the top. People will get bored and drift away, but the promoters with the passion will be able to carry on long after the ones with financial incentives behind their clubs.

This could be 1986/87 all over again. 25 years ago. And within that 25 years, some of the best allnighters possibly the scene has ever known. Some of the best discoveries, and some of the most passionate of rare soul fans have had the times of their lives. Weekenders have given guys like Carms and I who dont particularly enjoy hitting that 4am wall a chance to dance til dawn and sleep it off a few hundred yards away. Some of the artists we revered as kids have been found, and told of the passion many thousands of people have for the records they made when they were kids. Many have actually been over to the UK and Europe to experience it for themselves, and many more are already booked to do the same.

When I go out, which admittedly at the minute is as rare as a Shrine issue, I still see lots of the same old faces, having the same great times because they are where they want to be, often with who they want to be with. And all this internet chat is irrelevant when you are with friends, in a room with the music you've chosen to come out and listen to.

I can see why as a promoter or possibly a Dj, having a room full is important. but as a punter, teh choice is as good as it has ever been. And if you arent enjoying it. Then you probably chose the wrong night.

[NEV]

The scene, unfortunately, has been fractured for a very long time now.

If a punter went to say, a rock night, or a folk night, or whatever happened to be his fancy, he/she would be pretty sure of hearing stuff they like, because most music genres are pretty specific.

But it a soul punter goes to a "Northern" venue, will he have any idea what is gonna be played?

A while back, a girl of perhaps 18 or 19 came up to the Dj booth and said to me "I thought you were gonna play some Northern Soul tonight?". The record that I was playing as she said that was "Losing Game" by James Carr. She'd never heard of it.

The term "northern" now tries to cover SO much different stuff, that folks listen to for many different reasons.

This is not helped by many so called DJs who are, in fact, simply record collectors. They don't play stuff cause it's good to dance to. They play it to impress fellow "collectors".

If there is one phrase which has been killing this music since it was first said, it is "It's really rare, so it MUST be good!"

A friend of mine, who DJs at a very well respected club, was telling me about the guy he had invited to the next session. "His collection is amazing", he enthused..."all his stuff is on Demo!"

My mate was a little nonplussed when I replied "So they'll be better to dance to, will they?"

If you wanna hear rare stuff, just cause it's rare - that's cool.

If you wanna hear modern stuff, just cause it's new - that's cool.

If you wanna hear "underplayed", just cause it never got played before - that's cool.

And if you wanna dance your head off to great dancers - that's cool.

But as long as we class it all under the same genre, folks are gonna continue to be confused. And the apathy and argument will continue until it kills the scene stone dead.

Dead right there.......records like :-The Tomangoes

Don Gardner on Sedgerick

Andantes

J.D Bryant

Magnetics

Poets

Lester Tipton

Bernie Williams

Vondells

Prophets

Mr Soul

Joanne Courcey

Frank Wilson

Gene Toones

Mel Britt

Need i go on ??

I tried to pick on a bunch of records that have been around a long long time that are quite simply "Northern Soul " dancers and firm favourites amongst people who know what "Northern soul " is ..kinda makes the sentence in red and bold look like not very well thought out words to my eyes

Sadly mosty of the above have been booted /re-issued for the benefits of the people who have watered down and almost destroyed the original northern soul scene.

The people who never went anyway ,won't go anywhere if they can have a night on in their own town ....and become legends to people who als onever went anywhere and won't go anywhere.......loosely known as "handbaggers" .

But in fairness i can appreciate that nothing is black and white and in defence of the above statement (red/bold above) ..there are also a lot of people who for some reason do think that buying and playing records, that are by definition "soul" and "rare " ,even though they make people wanna cry or go to sleep ,is what it's all about

My own thoughts are ..the scene is now too fragmented with all the genres ,which is probably evolution ,nothing sinister ,but allows people to pick and choose what sort of music that wanna hear.

Too many events in one town, offering the same genre on the same night ,leading to rooms half empty ..thus causing cliques of people who refuse to attend ex mates events ,same cliques that create other events throughout the month, that clash with ex mates so they can invite each other to dj at their event in return for same favour( SAD BUT TRUE)

And lastly too many people who want to be promotors so they can dj :sleep3:

Ah..i miss the excitement of the "Underground soul scene" that used to be just that "Underground"

[Soulsmith]

It will all be alright in the end, the true die hard soul fans rescued it back from the tourists & hand baggers at least once before & we will again, its all about the SOUL & I'm in this for the long haul.......

Russ

I do love your optimism Russ.

Regrettably though, you are as mad as a hatter.

[Anais nin Carms]

Quote

Weekenders have given guys like Carms and I who dont particularly enjoy hitting that 4am wall a chance to dance til dawn and sleep it off a few hundred yards away.

Mikey I am a laaaaaady lol

Can also add I love the idea of Sunday art centres playing rare soul , cross over , blues , funk , whatever ...and they are on the way..the future ... doesn't York have one now at the riverside? and theres the horse and groom at Donny which I haven't had a chance to visit yet ...

There is much to be happy about

Why don't all of you nighter people have an email group and support each other ? I think your expectations that you are going to appeal to the mass is a bit unrealistic so what you need to do is consolidate what you have , that should be easy cause they are all on here...where the mass handbag /baggy people arn't ?

Off course I am an exceptional hand bagger lol cause I think i know my rare meat ...

[soulsalmon]

guys like Carms,carmen is a lady Mikey

[soulsalmon]

guys like Carms,carmen is a lady Mikey

beat me to it

[Ian Parker]

we'll be venturing South this weekend. makes a change to go 'somewhere new'. maybe others' should try it! bit of Northern. bit of early Motown, bit of RnB ( i like to call it early soul ). There will be mods, Skinheads, 'Souies' , all dancin and all havin a good time.

We've stayed home on many weekends because of the sheer number of events on in the region (FAR too many). yes we love the oldies scene, but we also tire of hearing the same records week in week out. .

if you're tired of the same old thing. try something different, we do!

p.s. It may help if some DJ's show a ittle enthusiasm whilst playing tunes. i've seen more life in a tamps vest.

Edited September 7, 2011 by parkash

[Cheltsoulnights]

Bring back the late 80s/early 90s , those were the best years for me.

Smaller venues with everyone all in one room.

Plenty of oldies mixed in with 'Newies' and one-offs.

One big Allnighter per Month/Fortnight

One 'big' local Saturday Soul Night per month per major city - none of this 9 nights per county with under 50 punters per venue.

Promotors who dignt DJ at other folks venues, so you didnt get the "you do mine, I'll do yours".

DJs being brought in from other counties, not just Tom, Dick and Harry from a quarter of a mile away.

Unfortunately none of this will happen until 50% of the 'returnees' feck back off.

See you at Nuneaton for an all in one room event and something for everyone. Especially at 1am

[shaunthesheep]

Lou, your love for soul music is unquestionable. Unfortunately to many people are so jaded with what they're hearing at soul nights/nighters that instead of wasting money travelling miles to venues to hear either the same record being played 4 times or being force fed funk that they would rather stay at home!

Maybe one day all the like-minded people will pull together and create a rare soul night/nighter that will work.

KTF Lou and we will catch up with you when Jane is back on her feet.

Taf

[Guest giant]

Too many promoters care little for the bigger picture (the scene in general) and only care about them selves. Some aren't happy with one night per weekend they want two and want to run something every week. They don't care about clashing either, same for many all-nighter promoters. When they can't get the night they want, rather than not bother or postpone they simply clash with someone else often long standing promotions, often not caring for the consequences.

There is a lot of apathy right now, especially from those who have been around without a break, fed up with dwindling attendances, same old records week in week out, many don't want newies but by the same token they don't want the same top 100 every week, many quality records ignored simply because a DJ and promoter play safe with guaranteed floor packers you hear every week.

Friday nights are getting less and less feasible for an all-nighter, those that are promoted on a Friday all too often suffer with dwindling attendances. Many reasons, work, family. The cost of living which is just rising and rising also have=ing a effect with many simply staying nearer home. That leaves just the Saturday night to squeeze everything in and with soul nights also extending their hours this is having an effect on the all-nighter scene. I personally don't think there will be an all-nighter scene as we now know it in a few years.

Look at the age of all-nighter goers……the majority the wrong side of 40/50. The youngsters just aren't there, I don't care what others say. Some nights might be doing well with venues fill of youngsters but they tend to be city centre venues and soul nights only, they don't tend to do the all-nighter circuit. Who can blame them, some decent music, free drinks, good laugh with people their own age, some sleep and the facet they have the next day and it isn't wasted by being a cabbage all day long.

Something has to give and soon. Promoters will have to start thinking about the bigger picture, some will have to think about what they are doing and is it for the benefit of the scene of themselves. They will have to decide if it is detrimental to the scene then we will postpone rather than move and clash. I doubt it will happen because humans are by and large selfish. I keep seeing the excuse well we are 100 odd miles apart and music policy is different, b&ll*cks!! We are all into Rare Soul, all chasing the same crowd.

Promoters will have to start showing some balls, introduce a few Dj's who can advance things, I'm not talking about new music all night or even a large part of the night but to strike a balance and freshen things up a little, maybe something different every 3 or 4 records, I mean 5 records in a set lasting an hour is f&ck all, dancers should show a little patience and realise not every record will be to their liking and that someone else might just be liking what they don't. I've been looking at playlists for several venues, boring boring boring....many good rare records but simply boring play lists, you hear them all the time. A Dj who spends a fortune will always get the bookings yet a DJ who plays good imaginative sets (I don't mean upfront either, oldies included in this) without resorting to the cheque book is always over looked.

I fear though it is too late and that we are past the tipping point.

good post Chalky

[mrs soul]

there's a lot of good good points made here!!! thank you, as I did have second thoughts about my post this morning

But I must make one thing very clear.although some of the things I have seen and heard make me cringe just lately.both me and woody have not lost any of our passion, in fact, as record dealer's will tell you, as I have said.any record that we buy, be it now or what we have bought over the last god knows how many years, we see as dead money.For us it purely lust in a way, we really do love em, and if this scene ended to-morrow, and there was no where else to go, we would still keep on buying!Its a very addictive hobby, as really a hobby is in fact what it is, truth be told for all record collectors.and many times, I have witnessed, people with a big redundancy come...and then when it does not quite go there way..sell up.

Over the years so many venues , so many ,I cant remember or I forget that in fact I have been there, but thats an age thing, and its a bad egg who cant be bothered to support other places but wants to raise there own.too much of that going on,I like to think of myself as some one with a very varied range of all things soulful, except funk sorry, I dont mind funk edged, and will attend oldies venues as well as rarer ones, and plopping in some unknown stuff along with more well known stuff is the way to go for me, however I personally not keen when when a DJ plays to himself, seen that a lot too, there's a place for that, its called a second room IMO.

So you see when you put all those things to-gether that's when it gets really pitiful, and good well meaning and deserving venues get overlooked for the ones that really should knock it on the head.The desperate to run a venue brigade has a detrimental effect on this scene, and I sometimes wonder if alls true about attendance, but then a phrase I hear too often is, but there is not many people there, so they don't bother going even if the music is brilliant, how are they gonna get it going with a great atmosphere if you cant be bothered to at least give a try and a bit of time, then the falling out comes...and thats what really ticks me off, the slagging off because some one wants theirs to be better even to the, detriment of the punters, who always have the final say, or at least should have.I try to do nighters and soul nites, but be-cause of personal things have not done many nighters of late, even the one 20 mins from my house , although I do hope to get there again.

[Russ Vickers]

I do love your optimism Russ.

Regrettably though, you are as mad as a hatter.

I am a bit .....f*ck em all, I'll be searching out proper Nighters & dancing to imaginative soul music for a long time yet, passsing scores of wannabe, neverwillbe Pussy soul nights on the way up the M6 or where ever, my nearest nighter is 2 hours away, most a min of 4........& while we're at it, what the feck is a Mini Nighter !!!......its either a Nighter or not, before 6am finish NOT,NOT,NOT....stop kiddin' ya selves.

Russ

[mrs soul]

Promoters will have to start showing some balls, introduce a few Dj's who can advance things, I'm not talking about new music all night or even a large part of the night but to strike a balance and freshen things up a little, maybe something different every 3 or 4 records, I mean 5 records in a set lasting an hour is f&ck all, dancers should show a little patience and realise not every record will be to their liking and that someone else might just be liking what they don't. I've been looking at playlists for several venues, boring boring boring....many good rare records but simply boring play lists, you hear them all the time. A Dj who spends a fortune will always get the bookings yet a DJ who plays good imaginative sets (I don't mean upfront either, oldies included in this) without resorting to the cheque book is always over looked.

I fear though it is too late and that we are past the tipping point.

A good point about DJ,s with imaginative sets ...one thing I always try to do, with honesty, is compliment some one I have listened to,who IMO played a great set of records to us the punter, all to often on lookbacks I see nothing said when it should be, I think the old green goddess gets in the way far to often.

[barney]

we'll be venturing South this weekend. makes a change to go 'somewhere new'. maybe others' should try it! bit of Northern. bit of early Motown, bit of RnB ( i like to call it early soul ). There will be mods, Skinheads, 'Souies' , all dancin and all havin a good time.

We've stayed home on many weekends because of the sheer number of events on in the region (FAR too many). yes we love the oldies scene, but we also tire of hearing the same records week in week out. .

if you're tired of the same old thing. try something different, we do!

p.s. It may help if some DJ's show a ittle enthusiasm whilst playing tunes. i've seen more life in a tamps vest.

gotta agree there are loads of venues round our way that offer the same old same old every w/end , could attend a different venue almost every friday and saturday night within a 20 mile radius and not attend the same one again in 12 months,

ten years ago there were only a few do,s every month locally and had to travel and the attendances seemed to be better and more settled,

nowadays you can go one night and the venue can be full to the rafters and the next month theres simply because the punters have chosen to go elsewhere there seems to be no rhyme or reason to this ,

over this time events / venues have come and gone , longstanding friendships have broken up and the scene has become fractious and fragmented, have many friends who dj and or promote but although I attend their do,s am always willing to try something new/different..

ps.. and dont take any of the lookbacks on here seriously because have travelled to some of these loudly trumpeted do,s on the strength of the comments and have to say, been sadly disappointed,

[Rob Wigley]

Nice topic ,well started and some great replies !

Rob