Is The 'Upfront' Soul Scene Disappearing Up It'S Own A*se?

[Len]

Len there is no way he would like Lifeline if he likes that kind of stuff, truely awful sounds imho and if thats what Oldies venues is all about im defo more intrested to hear stuff thats on the Upfront scene, i would rather dance to music with no beat than that lot

sorry i dont mean to be offensive but just trying to be honest

Well, I recon he would...If he don't, after Chalky has given him his entrance money back, I'll give you your entrance money back...But if he does like it? well that's up to you - A pint of lager will do me! - Is that a bet mate?

If you like soul music, you'll like Life-line.

Len.

[Scotters]

If you like soul music, you'll like Life-line.

Absolutely Len...That's what I was trying to say earlier today, but I do ramble on a bit as you know!

Steve

[Guest sharmo 1]

Hello just like to say that I try to go to one nighter a month and at least three soul nights and I'll be doing more weekenders in the future.most of the soul nights are local and it gives me a chance to meet different mates from different areas at least once a month .For instance Bob and Carol Fletcher run Willington and i go not just to listen to the music but to have a laugh with my mates .Life line is my favorite nighter as i can hear great northern soul concentrated in one short period of time and despite what some may say there are allway's plenty of people on the wood dancing away.I hear people saying stupid thing's about Mick H , Andy and Butch and destructive discriptive assertions by people who havn't attended lifeline about elitisim ect .The truth is that some (not all!) seem to have developed a mild form of inferiority complex's regarding rare soul/northern soul as it seems that as with this scene and others this give's people who like to cultivate and nuture an aura of interlect regarding knowledge of music from an invisible a soap box. The problem lies when the perhemitors of this interlect are reached and an almost dorment or stubbon attitude has to be selfinduced to shut away the unknown in a nut shell they refuse to admit that they don't know these records as they like to think they know the lot and don't like the realisation that theier minds are not as interlectually expanded as they'd like to admit.Therefor it's easy to say that rare soul or upfront soul call it what you like is elitest crap as that ends any conversation .I'll tell you all something for nothing all those guy's that are associated with lifeline are good honest working lads , some of these people have sacrificed a lot in the persuit of thier hobby's I had long conversations at the weekend with Sam and asked him why He'd never married and he said because it would have interfered with his collecting and djing from a 70 year old man still pulling rabbits out the hat ,i know people like Butch who have worked with the mind of a surgeon skillfully planning and plodding away at the game and ending up on top of it.Don't knock these people or thier records please , go along and have a go 90% of the track's i go and listen to have been on the scene for years in various collections it's just now that as those collections get sold and dismantled they get concentraited into someone like Butch's or Andy's Dj box's , so a visit to lifeline is paradoxicly an oldies night with a few newies here and there .One of my favorite dj's at the moment id Spiv a true gent and a really nice guy he play's some great oldies and a splattering of new stuff and who can forget the lovely Sam Evans with her open minded attitude , she runs the fantastic Modern night at Hinckley Grange modern soul a bit of funk and the odd modern jazz thing all in one evening both these d.j's could be deemed as being "up front" .fantastic people infact you all are but the desire for a "upfront night is important" and the need for two rooms is probably essentual in the comming years if I've up set anyone with these words I'm sorry but i think it's imortant to have a choice and the freedom choose .Free your minds people with the greatest of respect and best wishes to all of you Simon.

[Professorturnups]

I like the idea suggested a few posts back - an "Inbetweeners" room where everything gets played. The words "Holdall W*nker" don't quite have the same ring to them though...

Mark C

ps not sure if the anonymous message on facebook calling me a w*nker has anything to do with this? Some people are getting a bit touchy in their old age - and yes I always take a holdall with me!!

Edited September 28, 2011 by professorturnups

[Guest sharmo 1]

I like the idea suggested a few posts back - an "Inbetweeners" room where everything gets played. The words "Holdall W*nker" don't quite have the same ring to them though...

Mark C

Mark it is a good idea .

[Len]

I like the idea suggested a few posts back - an "Inbetweeners" room where everything gets played. The words "Holdall W*nker" don't quite have the same ring to them though...

Mark C

ps not sure if the anonymous message on facebook calling me a w*nker has anything to do with this? Some people are getting a bit touchy in their old age - and yes I always take a holdall with me!!

Hi Mark,

Not sure what the name calling is all about but just ignore it - Your a top bloke mate.

All the best,

Len.

p.s - If it was a 'Man Bag' - Well that's different! ...(I actually have one of those, it was a present - If that's any defence! )

Edited September 28, 2011 by LEN

[Guest Mart B]

Ive not traweled through every thread,but heres my view.

Northern soul nites have always been about progression,moving on dont let the scene get stale etc.

But sadly The Northern crowd arent young anymore just look at the photos gallery alot of folk are returnees. & are not prepared to listen to underplayed or rarer stuff.

In a nutshell return to djs who can play 100 mile a hour oldies & intro some underplayed quality oldies and even modern crossover! all in the same room,didnt create a problem then!.

I was used to this when djs like Gary Rushbrooke,Jim Winsoura & Rob marriott was @ the helm.They introd big ticket stafford & wigan tunes along with oldies which are not played anymore... it went down a treat.

[Ezzie Brown]

hi..........i played a few tunes at a bring um and play um relaxed free entry afternoon do in good old gloucester. this weekend ...........i dont get much chance to play tunes so ......................, i decided to play my current collection favourites , which just happen to be, i think , some rare and unknown tunes that are to my ears "the dogs " ,..to a mixed.reception ................ im in this scene to hear, find and maybe occassionally play new sounds ,.... have faith ......... passion and pride in YOUR choices ,.................. take the plaudits and the flak. ...........thats exactly what all the upfront djs do.............how brave are the critics living in "safeville.."................. everything was new to ALL our ears once...................settle for mediocrity and the scene drowns in a sea of to familiar tunes, re issues, mugs, badges stickers etc, just like the mid/ late 70s......ez......ps .i must be gettin better im gettin angry ...........

Edited September 28, 2011 by ezzie brown

[Russ Vickers]

You couldnt post the top 10 newies to listen to..........you'd have to visit the venue or go hear the DJ......thats the point really, remember the days when that was the only option ?........well, its the same thing...........for the record (excuse the pun) Wiggy, Clay Brown is f*ckin fantastic, but like many of these things has to be heard within the context of a set, no way will you hear sets of mid/down tempo records, but you'll get an odd thing thrown in, apart from just being great soul records, they give you a little breather & create a passionate atmosphere.........some things just dont sound the same outside of an Allnighter, If you went Wiggy & didnt enjoy it, god dammit I'd Paypal you the entrance fee back myself........Lifeline is propper !!!

Russ

[Val (Chunky)]

hi..........i played a few tunes at a bring um and play um relaxed free entry afternoon do in good old gloucester. this weekend ...........i dont get much chance to play tunes so ......................, i decided to play my current collection favourites , which just happen to be, i think , some rare and unknown tunes that are to my ears "the dogs " ,..to a mixed.reception ................ im in this scene to hear, find and maybe occassionally play new sounds ,.... have faith ......... passion and pride in YOUR choices ,.................. take the plaudits and the flak. ...........thats exactly what all the upfront djs do.............how brave are the critics living in "safeville.."................. everything was new to ALL our ears once...................settle for mediocrity and the scene drowns in a sea of to familiar tunes, re issues, mugs, badges stickers etc, just like the mid/ late 70s......ez......ps .i must be gettin better im gettin angry ...........

I like this post.....nice one ezzie

[Ezzie Brown]

I like this post.....nice one ezzie

[Len]

hi..........i played a few tunes at a bring um and play um relaxed free entry afternoon do in good old gloucester. this weekend ...........i dont get much chance to play tunes so ......................, i decided to play my current collection favourites , which just happen to be, i think , some rare and unknown tunes that are to my ears "the dogs " ,..to a mixed.reception ................ im in this scene to hear, find and maybe occassionally play new sounds ,.... have faith ......... passion and pride in YOUR choices ,.................. take the plaudits and the flak. ...........thats exactly what all the upfront djs do.............how brave are the critics living in "safeville.."................. everything was new to ALL our ears once...................settle for mediocrity and the scene drowns in a sea of to familiar tunes, re issues, mugs, badges stickers etc, just like the mid/ late 70s......ez......ps .i must be gettin better im gettin angry ...........

Yes, with a capital 'Y' !!!

All the best,

Len.

[Wrongcrowd]

That about sums it up for me. Stafford, Shotts, Soultown (Mexboro, Blackburn), Parr Hall, Loughborough, Top Dog Kool Kat (Chesterfield) etc etc and all those nighters in the 80s / 90s followed the same course as Matts club outlined earlier and we never considered these nighters as anything other than Northern Soul. I never throught we were the upfront or rare or underplayed scene for one minute. NS pure and simple.

This current Nostalgia scene has in my view departed from what NS is about. It was never about listening to 200 odd records only and looking back to 'better days' with misty eyes was it? That's not what I bought into anyway.

I think a reason for this is that there are a hell of a lot of people on the Nostalgia scene who dipped there toe in for a couple of years in the 70s, left the scene and have come back with a list of criteria from a time they loved; informed by their limited experience. I have no problem if that's what floats their boat but it seems to be them that see us as those who have departed from the path.

Going back to my first dayer at the Notts Palais Dec 78. 30 of us met up in the Man and Space in Eastwood to then jump on the Trent Bus to Nottingham - newbies as well as those who have been around 2 or 3 years. The bus stopped at Alfreton before us and both floors were full. Cut forward 2 years and I was on that bus on my lonesome. not a soul fan to be seen. seriously, all had dropped off in 2 years.

Well now they are back for the odd local night and they have this attitude that anything outside of the 200 records they know is not Northern Soul - and amazingly they are almost in denial that they left the scene.."I've been into soul since blah blah blah" yet they spent 2 decades playing darts and doms in the local miners welfare.

Why they can't like me when I left the scene for most of the 90s just say I wanted to do something else? This continues to puzzle me.

Personally Lifeline to me is Northern Soul - pure and simple!

Now then, play fair Byrney, you've had 20+ more years to listen to tunes that the nostalgia crowd missed. ......they couldn't catch you up even if they wanted to....

Edited September 30, 2011 by Wrongcrowd

[Guest gibber]

No ones mentioned about dropping my Es ( darby - derby )lol

In ten years time give or take there will be no scene anyway . Records will be worth nothing . Any interest will be dead like the most of us .

Oldies or up front we all have the same passion for this so called scene/ scenes . Lets All enjoy it while we can .

[stomper45]

Have not gone through every thread but why has the term "Northern Soul" become the domain of oldies rooms, when back in 1973 am assuming most tunes were "new and upfront".

From a djn aspect, thought was always about pushing tunes, trying to blend a few in with current biggies. Else a jukebox will do.

[spike1]

I hope that the upfront scene continues to grow and thrive

Looking for new stuff to play weather it be " new"', old but seldom played or undiscovered Is what the dj's at the wheel , torch Wigan ect were all about some great. I don't know how many more undiscovered 6ts tunes are left though! But I'm sure you toys will keep looking !

As I now only regularly attend the twisted wheel twice a month I don't know what people judge as overplayed oldies?

As the wheels policy is to try and keep to

The Origanal playlists from both the brazenose St and whitworth St sites you'd assume that it would be smae old same old , yes loads of classics but every time I go I hear something new to me have to ask someone "what the fxxk is that!"

Now that may be my lack of knowledge of early soul or r&b or it could be that dj's at hte wheel try and keep things fresh by playing obscure sounds?

would I go to an upfront do?

Don't think I'd fit in

I wear brogues, sta prest Fred perry and have the skinhead

I carry a black holdall (cos I dance for most of the 5 hours and need several change of shirts)

Would this class me as a

" holdall wankee"

"Dinosaur "

"stuck in a time warp"

"returnee "???

Don't think I'd feel welcome

Yours in soul Steven pike 52 years young and still enjoying it!!

[Steve Brown]

I hope that the upfront scene continues to grow and thrive

Looking for new stuff to play weather it be " new"', old but seldom played or undiscovered Is what the dj's at the wheel , torch Wigan ect were all about some great. I don't know how many more undiscovered 6ts tunes are left though! But I'm sure you toys will keep looking !

As I now only regularly attend the twisted wheel twice a month I don't know what people judge as overplayed oldies?

As the wheels policy is to try and keep to

The Origanal playlists from both the brazenose St and whitworth St sites you'd assume that it would be smae old same old , yes loads of classics but every time I go I hear something new to me have to ask someone "what the fxxk is that!"

Now that may be my lack of knowledge of early soul or r&b or it could be that dj's at hte wheel try and keep things fresh by playing obscure sounds?

would I go to an upfront do?

Don't think I'd fit in

I wear brogues, sta prest Fred perry and have the skinhead

I carry a black holdall (cos I dance for most of the 5 hours and need several change of shirts)

Would this class me as a

" holdall wankee"

"Dinosaur "

"stuck in a time warp"

"returnee "???

Don't think I'd feel welcome

Yours in soul Steven pike 52 years young and still enjoying it!!

Interesting post. I think you represent the thoughts of many. Unless there is more effort to encourage people like you along to some of the rarer nights we will be having these debates for ever. Listen up Promoters, hear what's being said. It proves what I have thought for a while that a lot more would attend some of the more 'upfront' nights and listen to some new tunes but are put off by the attitude of the few that seem to want to keep it elitist. I bet this is not the last thread on this subject .

[Guest Bearsy]

I hope that the upfront scene continues to grow and thrive

Looking for new stuff to play weather it be " new"', old but seldom played or undiscovered Is what the dj's at the wheel , torch Wigan ect were all about some great. I don't know how many more undiscovered 6ts tunes are left though! But I'm sure you toys will keep looking !

As I now only regularly attend the twisted wheel twice a month I don't know what people judge as overplayed oldies?

As the wheels policy is to try and keep to

The Origanal playlists from both the brazenose St and whitworth St sites you'd assume that it would be smae old same old , yes loads of classics but every time I go I hear something new to me have to ask someone "what the fxxk is that!"

Now that may be my lack of knowledge of early soul or r&b or it could be that dj's at hte wheel try and keep things fresh by playing obscure sounds?

would I go to an upfront do?

Don't think I'd fit in

I wear brogues, sta prest Fred perry and have the skinhead

I carry a black holdall (cos I dance for most of the 5 hours and need several change of shirts)

Would this class me as a

" holdall wankee"

"Dinosaur "

"stuck in a time warp"

"returnee "???

Don't think I'd feel welcome

Yours in soul Steven pike 52 years young and still enjoying it!!

plenty of peeps ive seen at upfront events wear what they damn well please wether it be baggies, vests, fred perrys, brogues etc etc etc a lot of the time i wear jeans, combat shorts, t-shirt and trainers, oh and the majority have no hiar me being one of them, beleive it or not these events aint cat walks and ive never witnessed a panel of judges giving marks on dress code, most if not everyone at these kind of events in my opinion are there pure;y for the music, and ive seen many a fella in the bogs changing clothes and spraying themselves up ready for their next stint on the dance floor, dont paint a picture of what you think it may be just go along and see for yourself you might just be suprised, oh and i personally dont give a fook what people think on how i dress even though im the coolest dude in town

Edited October 2, 2011 by Bearsy

[Guest Byrney]

I hope that the upfront scene continues to grow and thrive

Looking for new stuff to play weather it be " new"', old but seldom played or undiscovered Is what the dj's at the wheel , torch Wigan ect were all about some great. I don't know how many more undiscovered 6ts tunes are left though! But I'm sure you toys will keep looking !

As I now only regularly attend the twisted wheel twice a month I don't know what people judge as overplayed oldies?

As the wheels policy is to try and keep to

The Origanal playlists from both the brazenose St and whitworth St sites you'd assume that it would be smae old same old , yes loads of classics but every time I go I hear something new to me have to ask someone "what the fxxk is that!"

Now that may be my lack of knowledge of early soul or r&b or it could be that dj's at hte wheel try and keep things fresh by playing obscure sounds?

would I go to an upfront do?

Don't think I'd fit in

I wear brogues, sta prest Fred perry and have the skinhead

I carry a black holdall (cos I dance for most of the 5 hours and need several change of shirts)

Would this class me as a

" holdall wankee"

"Dinosaur "

"stuck in a time warp"

"returnee "???

Don't think I'd feel welcome

Yours in soul Steven pike 52 years young and still enjoying it!!

Given your first statement in support of a key principle of what Northern Soul should be about - you'd be welcomed mate

[Chalky]

Interesting post. I think you represent the thoughts of many. Unless there is more effort to encourage people like you along to some of the rarer nights we will be having these debates for ever. Listen up Promoters, hear what's being said. It proves what I have thought for a while that a lot more would attend some of the more 'upfront' nights and listen to some new tunes but are put off by the attitude of the few that seem to want to keep it elitist. I bet this is not the last thread on this subject .

What a load of bollox, if you don't mind me saying. The "upfront" promoters as you call them want to attract everyone, the big difference is they don't want to hear the same records you hear basically week in week out up and down the country, that is it, no wanting a separate elitist scene (the while Northern Soul scene is elitist) and no wanting to keep the music to ourselves. There is a plethora of venues that cater for those that are simply in a comfort zone, unwilling to try anything new and are in the main in this mainly for the social aspect with the music a secondary factor.

I keep reading comments like your s and others about upfront promoters and to be honest you don't have a clue. We don;'t want to keep it elitist, we don;t want to keep it for our selves, Lifeline has a good percentage of the oldies crowd in and by and large plenty of them have grown with the Lifeline experience and do now appreciate that not everything was and is 1975 Wigan Casino as some dinosaur DJ would have us believe is what Northern Soul is all about.

Have you been to Lifeline Steve? If so when? Do you go to the Wilton, Thorne, Greatstone or the other venues that try and play something different, not because they want to keep it elitist or to themselves, nothing could be further from the truth, it is simply to see the scene progress or try and progress, after all that is what the Wheel, Torcha dn Wigan was about, new records every week. Now I know that can't be recreated, impossible, for a start the records are not there in the quantities they once were, but there are new tunes out there're and there are many forgotten or neglected records out there that deserve action on this wonderful scene.

I say don't judge something by some misguided and ill informed views because that is all I usually read about the so called "upfront" scene, comments from some who haven't even been to the venues mentioned (and others I haven't).

As for how people dress, I probably look more like Spike, brogues, fred perry's & skin head I must be an upfront dinosaur

[Dave Rimmer]

Have you been to Lifeline Steve? If so when? Do you go to the Wilton, Thorne, Greatstone or the other venues that try and play something different,

As for how people dress, I probably look more like Spike, brogues, fred perry's & skin head I must be an upfront dinosaur

I know Steve has been to Lifeline Chalky, And I also know that he would support the ethos behind Lifeline.

And whilst I wear the brogues, and Fred perry, you definitely have more hair than me, so can't agree that you are an upfront dinosaur

[Chalky]

I know Steve has been to Lifeline Chalky, And I also know that he would support the ethos behind Lifeline.

And whilst I wear the brogues, and Fred perry, you definitely have more hair than me, so can't agree that you are an upfront dinosaur

Then why give such an ill-informed opinion of what "upfront" promoters want? If Lifeline's promoters wanted an elitist night, for like minded people only we wouldn't hire a venue that hold 300 odd, employ some of the best DJ's at the top of their game, we'd hire a small venue and play to ourselves and save a fortune in the process.

It's dance music, you might not hear it every week but it is dance music, that is what the scene has always been about, progression, the need to hear something new and the dance floor. You need people with attitudes, but that attitude has to be directed in the right direction and I've yet to see a promoter who promotes something different with the attitude that they don't want certain types at their venue. Just because they play something different doesn't mean they are out to exclude some.

As for the hair, number two back and sides three on the top

Spike says he doesn't think he would fit in, why not try it, he might just be surprised.

[Len]

Spike says he doesn't think he would fit in, why not try it, he might just be surprised.

Hi Chalky,

As you know, there's no 'might' about it, I would put money on it that Spike would be pleasantly surprised...ok, I'll give him his entrance fee back if he doesn't enjoy it - You can't keep dishing out! lol

That's the trouble, miss informed judgements. As I mentioned in my earlier posts I didn't go to The 100 Club for years due to trusting some one else's judgement and now I look back, the folk that gave me their opinons never actually went! So the message here really is that it's always best to try something for yourself.

Spike, you would be welcomed, so why not give it a go at least once mate?

All the best,

Len.

p.s - If you do want your entrance money back, I'm the one with the bald head (Honest!)

[Guest gordon russell]

Think the elitist tag is a cop out excuse used by folk who can,t or won,t be bothered to go to more upfront venues...they can,t just say honestly "it,s not my thing " and leave it at that,they always come up with something which they feel they need to as by way of a reason.

Steve brown is not really on the soul scene as we know it....he runs a couple of little soul nights in and around rushden (absolutely fine ) but has no interest in the wider scene and more importantly music......this is not a critisism just an observation.I have seen him at lifeline once. Given how close he lives to lifeline......tells us all we need to know......it,s not his thing pure and simple.

My observations about upfront venues are this don,t forget it,s a night out (not just about hearing new stuff ) whilst good new stuff is brill, forget the tunes that have gone before at ya peril......just mix em in sparingly (don,t hammer tunes ).

have dj,s that first and foremost actually like the stuff that the club is known for....ya halfway there then.

just because a tune might be new......dosn,t automatically qualify it to be played in an all night dance situation.....it may be just a great soul record,but not a dance tune.

Lastly the upfront scene as far as i,m concerned IS THE SCENE.......there are plenty of variations within it for all if ya just look.

LIFELINE good mix of old and new stretching across 3 decades so the music is more eclectic....BIDDS good mix with the added latin grooves and R&B a plenty....BURNLEY again a good mix of old and new mainly 60,s ,but with a smattering of good 70,s earlier on....THORNE...more of a crossover/modern mid tempo vibe....WILTON again more of a crossover mellow vibe...that i,m not sure suits a nighter situation........the're ya choices if ya can,t have a good night out amongst that lot.......then ya'd better get a whippet and an allotment tezza

[Cunnie]

It is unfortunate that it has been tagged 'upfront' seeings as they are all 'old' records (the majority anyway).

So true that Joan.

Consider myself a 'jack of all trades' on the Soul scene as I like a bit of everything & try my best not to pigeonhole myself but have always considered the term 'upfront' to refer to current new release dance music.

Well that's what we used to call it around 2000ish when Terry Gee ran the Modern Room at the Bretby all nighters & the playlists at the time were probably 90% Soulful House.

Now at the time that was very upfront when you consider what was being played next door in the Northern room.

[KevH]

I hear ya Brother Terry.

In a nutshell,"new" or "upfront" means nothing,if you need to hang you hat on a reference point such as Wigan.

Going to some "upfront" nights feels almost like rediscovering music all over again,almost like creating history,just for the night.

How many nights/niters can you name where that feeling grabs you?

[Steve Brown]

Guys, you have completely misinterpreted what I said.. I don't mean that the promoters are elitist, far from it. What I am getting at is that a very small number of the peeps that go to such events are vehement in their comments on here and put off a lot of people from trying it hence the post from Spike. I love all sorts of nights and go to wherever I fancy and when there, find the people very friendly and not at all off putting. Chalky I think it is brilliant taking a rarer night to the bigger stage, people should go and try it and make up there own mind. There is plenty of atmosphere and good dance music is good dance music wherever it is played.

As for Peggy, sorry mate but wrong again. I am passionate about my music as all that know me will confirm. Yeah, I run a little local Soul Night. That would be 'The Pembo' which is pretty big actually, always rammed. Always has a top name headline DJ and always manages to play some interesting and imaginative tunes mixed in with the oldies. An ethos that Len himself has championed in his time as one of the promoters. I know you are passionate yourself but I just wish you would get your facts right. I may not go to the same venues as you but I have just as much passion for the music as you have .

[Winnie :-)]

Guys, you have completely misinterpreted what I said.. I don't mean that the promoters are elitist, far from it. What I am getting at is that a very small number of the peeps that go to such events are vehement in their comments on here and put off a lot of people from trying it hence the post from Spike. I love all sorts of nights and go to wherever I fancy and when there, find the people very friendly and not at all off putting. Chalky I think it is brilliant taking a rarer night to the bigger stage, people should go and try it and make up there own mind. There is plenty of atmosphere and good dance music is good dance music wherever it is played.

As for Peggy, sorry mate but wrong again. I am passionate about my music as all that know me will confirm. Yeah, I run a little local Soul Night. That would be 'The Pembo' which is pretty big actually, always rammed. Always has a top name headline DJ and always manages to play some interesting and imaginative tunes mixed in with the oldies. An ethos that Len himself has championed in his time as one of the promoters. I know you are passionate yourself but I just wish you would get your facts right. I may not go to the same venues as you but I have just as much passion for the music as you have .

I read you're first comment and knew what you meant, you're not talking about the actual promoters of, for instance lifeline, you're talking about some of the people who promote the 'upfront scene' as the way forward. ie: some of the punters?

[Chalky]

Steve, my apologies if I miss read what you were trying to interpret but like Terry I get tired of ill informed comment from others who haven't even tried one of the so called "upfront" venues, as terry says they use such words as a cop out or an excuse.

And Steve/Win the so called "upfront" crowd are the most fickle of the lot and we don't see many of them, those who want something different can't be bothered half the time. If it wasn't for the oldies crowd trying something different and actually enjoying Lifeline then there wouldn't be a Lifeline.

[Peter]

I have just returned from the Stoke Allnighter, I've not been since October last year, I attend Lifeline more than I do Stoke.

During the night I wandered into the Windsor Suite and caught Simon Hunt's set, the room and dance floor was fairly busy and IMO he played a great set.

I went back into the main room for a while the floor was packed after a while I went back into the Windsor Suite and what I heard blew me away, I didn't know the DJ's name I think he was from Dartford and his set was the one before Rob Smith approx 4am.

He was probably halfway through and was playing some fantastic 100mph funky dancers, ( I had not heard them before but I can usually tell by the first few beats if they are dancable or not ) there must have only been fifteen or so people in the room and two or three of us dancing away. Whilst in the main room hundreds danced to same old, had Sam played these they would have gone down a storm, but no, they were lost on a few of us tucked away in a side room in one of the biggest nighters in the country.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Peter

[Winnie :-)]

Steve, my apologies if I miss read what you were trying to interpret but like Terry I get tired of ill informed comment from others who haven't even tried one of the so called "upfront" venues, as terry says they use such words as a cop out or an excuse.

And Steve/Win the so called "upfront" crowd are the most fickle of the lot and we don't see many of them, those who want something different can't be bothered half the time. If it wasn't for the oldies crowd trying something different and actually enjoying Lifeline then there wouldn't be a Lifeline.

Chalky, I've already said post 229 from Andy D is the best in the thread, and your comment above echoes that, it's the 'disciples' not the actual promoters that can come across elitist from time to time and in truth that's off putting to many.

[Guest Matt Male]

Chalky, I've already said post 229 from Andy D is the best in the thread, and your comment above echoes that, it's the 'disciples' not the actual promoters that can come across elitist from time to time and in truth that's off putting to many.

Who are these elitist people? I've never met anyone like that.

[Winnie :-)]

Who are these elitist people? I've never met anyone like that.

I think the posters are referring to comments made on soul source, rarely do people come across elitist in person.

[Wrongcrowd]

So true that Joan.

Consider myself a 'jack of all trades' on the Soul scene as I like a bit of everything & try my best not to pigeonhole myself but have always considered the term 'upfront' to refer to current new release dance music.

Well that's what we used to call it around 2000ish when Terry Gee ran the Modern Room at the Bretby all nighters & the playlists at the time were probably 90% Soulful House.

Now at the time that was very upfront when you consider what was being played next door in the Northern room.

Upfront meaning new(ish) to the scene, whether that's Northern or Modern. The term 'upfront' on the Northern scene seems to have replaced the term 'rare soul' that used to be applied to distinguish between an oldies based scene, and the more progressive scene, currently championed by Lifeline. That's all.

I really don't get why so many posts on this thread want to make a point about the 'upfont' scene being elitist, it isn't any different to the way it has always been. It's just staying true and holding on to the values that the Northern scene always held, in playing unknown and obscure soul music. The vast majority of us attending all-nighters in years past would have expected to hear new sounds, and were caught up in that scene each and every weekend, so what's changed? If the Northern scene back then was considered to be elitist, well by comparisson then the scene that Lifeline continues to progress is no different. The real change is in the part of the scene that denies progression and no longer understands one of the key elements that made the scene what we wanted and what kept us coming back for more.

[KevH]

Upfront meaning new(ish) to the scene, whether that's Northern or Modern. The term 'upfront' on the Northern scene seems to have replaced the term 'rare soul' that used to be applied to distinguish between an oldies based scene, and the more progressive scene, currently championed by Lifeline. That's all.

I really don't get why so many posts on this thread want to make a point about the 'upfont' scene being elitist, it isn't any different to the way it has always been. It's just staying true and holding on to the values that the Northern scene always held, in playing unknown and obscure soul music. The vast majority of us attending all-nighters in years past would have expected to hear new sounds, and were caught up in that scene each and every weekend, so what's changed? If the Northern scene back then was considered to be elitist, well by comparisson then the scene that Lifeline continues to progress is no different. The real change is in the part of the scene that denies progression and no longer understands one of the key elements that made the scene what we wanted and what kept us coming back for more.

Hallelujah Brother Wrongcrowd.

Edited October 2, 2011 by KevH

[Chalky]

I just see people out for a good night, regardless of whether they attend an "upfront" or an oldies promotion. The only difference I see is more emphasis put on the music from the "upfront" crowd. I can't see how anyone can get excited about going out to hear Ruby Andrews Just Loving You again and again and again.

[Len]

I think the posters are referring to comments made on soul source, rarely do people come across elitist in person.

Some posts are so passionate they may be read the wrong way and miss informed judgements are like propaganda. As a promoter you need to be ‘Whiter than white’ so this propaganda has absolutely no grounds of proof. As you said Winston, it’s not the promoters or any particular person I don’t think, People’s perception of what these events are like can be perceived from something as trivial as a comment on a forum.

To anyone who is reading this thread that hasn’t been to Life-line, I’d just like to make it absolutely clear that Life-line is still attracting plenty of people, the last one was fantastic. I opened this debate to try and get the point across to the ‘Oldies camp’ that the ‘Upfront’ events are well worth a visit, I just wish the ratio of 1500 - 300 was more evenly spread.

All the best,

Len.

[soulsalmon]

Upfront meaning new(ish) to the scene, whether that's Northern or Modern. The term 'upfront' on the Northern scene seems to have replaced the term 'rare soul' that used to be applied to distinguish between an oldies based scene, and the more progressive scene, currently championed by Lifeline. That's all.

I really don't get why so many posts on this thread want to make a point about the 'upfont' scene being elitist, it isn't any different to the way it has always been. It's just staying true and holding on to the values that the Northern scene always held, in playing unknown and obscure soul music. The vast majority of us attending all-nighters in years past would have expected to hear new sounds, and were caught up in that scene each and every weekend, so what's changed? If the Northern scene back then was considered to be elitist, well by comparisson then the scene that Lifeline continues to progress is no different. The real change is in the part of the scene that denies progression and no longer understands one of the key elements that made the scene what we wanted and what kept us coming back for more.

Very well put Cliff

[Guest gordon russell]

I just see people out for a good night, regardless of whether they attend an "upfront" or an oldies promotion. The only difference I see is more emphasis put on the music from the "upfront" crowd. I can't see how anyone can get excited about going out to hear Ruby Andrews Just Loving You again and again and again.

Heres a point that needs more consideration for a long long time now our crowd have long held the view that very few people actually listen to music at venues.....it is entirely about the social side (nothing wrong,just how it is ) this is deffo a factor....not many will admit to it,but it,s true enough. Even know a dj who buys records based on other peoples reaction to a tune not on his hearing of it......sometimes having never heard it just of it.I just love hearing a tune that hits ya first time you hear it and you ask the question what the f*ck is this.......regardless of it,s value or who's playing it. Remember my pal saying to me "you wanna hear this dewy black cliffs playing" next time l went to the venue and it came on.....never had to ask anyone knew instantly cos l was listening...........the upfront crowd do this more than the oldies crowd for sure.

[Irish Spinner]

I think the posters are referring to comments made on soul source, rarely do people come across elitist in person.

Elitism is the belief or attitude of some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with intellect.

Definitely no one who goes to the venues i attend .lol

Irish

Edited October 2, 2011 by Irish Spinner

[Russ Vickers]

No matter how promoters/punters choose to describe the music they play at venues, that shall we say, play something with a difference, before long that phrase has been hijacked & bastardized then used as almost a slur by those with closed minds........you use 'Northern Soul' or 'Motown' & youre scared of what you'll get through the door, Rare (whilst having been used for decades, even before the term NS) Soul & now it seems 'Upfront' are being used as insults..... 'we dont want like that Rare sh*t'.

I think that I come across in the wrong way sometimes on SS. Its usually to defend the playing of different sounds other than the norm & usually in response to inflamatory misguided comments made by others with a closed mind. I am passionate about my soul music, those that know me realise this & read my comments within context of that, those that dont know me, may some times think who is that wanker, but I can put up with that cos i WILL NEVER STOP PROMOTING THE ETHOS OF THE ORIGINAL SCENE...............NEW TUNES !!!. I also find that 'attitude' is found more with some of the oldies only crowd (not all) & the so called attitude & elitistism from the 'Upfront' crowd is generally in response to this.

Best Russ

[Guest]

What a load of bollox, if you don't mind me saying. The "upfront" promoters as you call them want to attract everyone, the big difference is they don't want to hear the same records you hear basically week in week out up and down the country, that is it, no wanting a separate elitist scene (the while Northern Soul scene is elitist) and no wanting to keep the music to ourselves. There is a plethora of venues that cater for those that are simply in a comfort zone, unwilling to try anything new and are in the main in this mainly for the social aspect with the music a secondary factor.

I keep reading comments like your s and others about upfront promoters and to be honest you don't have a clue. We don;'t want to keep it elitist, we don;t want to keep it for our selves, Lifeline has a good percentage of the oldies crowd in and by and large plenty of them have grown with the Lifeline experience and do now appreciate that not everything was and is 1975 Wigan Casino as some dinosaur DJ would have us believe is what Northern Soul is all about.

Have you been to Lifeline Steve? If so when? Do you go to the Wilton, Thorne, Greatstone or the other venues that try and play something different, not because they want to keep it elitist or to themselves, nothing could be further from the truth, it is simply to see the scene progress or try and progress, after all that is what the Wheel, Torcha dn Wigan was about, new records every week. Now I know that can't be recreated, impossible, for a start the records are not there in the quantities they once were, but there are new tunes out there're and there are many forgotten or neglected records out there that deserve action on this wonderful scene.

I say don't judge something by some misguided and ill informed views because that is all I usually read about the so called "upfront" scene, comments from some who haven't even been to the venues mentioned (and others I haven't).

As for how people dress, I probably look more like Spike, brogues, fred perry's & skin head I must be an upfront dinosaur

you don't need to explain why you want to hear new records to people who don't even want to wear new trousers !

[Len]

I have just returned from the Stoke Allnighter, I've not been since October last year, I attend Lifeline more than I do Stoke.

During the night I wandered into the Windsor Suite and caught Simon Hunt's set, the room and dance floor was fairly busy and IMO he played a great set.

I went back into the main room for a while the floor was packed after a while I went back into the Windsor Suite and what I heard blew me away, I didn't know the DJ's name I think he was from Dartford and his set was the one before Rob Smith approx 4am.

He was probably halfway through and was playing some fantastic 100mph funky dancers, ( I had not heard them before but I can usually tell by the first few beats if they are dancable or not ) there must have only been fifteen or so people in the room and two or three of us dancing away. Whilst in the main room hundreds danced to same old, had Sam played these they would have gone down a storm, but no, they were lost on a few of us tucked away in a side room in one of the biggest nighters in the country.

Exactly! - If the ‘1500 Plus’ All-nighters appreciated that there is a demand for more ‘Upfront’ sounds in the main room and actually did something about it, the smaller ‘Upfront’ venues would naturally feed off the back of them.

Len.

[Len]

No matter how promoters/punters choose to describe the music they play at venues, that shall we say, play something with a difference, before long that phrase has been hijacked & bastardized then used as almost a slur by those with closed minds........you use 'Northern Soul' or 'Motown' & youre scared of what you'll get through the door, Rare (whilst having been used for decades, even before the term NS) Soul & now it seems 'Upfront' are being used as insults..... 'we dont want like that Rare sh*t'.

I think that I come across in the wrong way sometimes on SS. Its usually to defend the playing of different sounds other than the norm & usually in response to inflamatory misguided comments made by others with a closed mind. I am passionate about my soul music, those that know me realise this & read my comments within context of that, those that dont know me, may some times think who is that wanker, but I can put up with that cos i WILL NEVER STOP PROMOTING THE ETHOS OF THE ORIGINAL SCENE...............NEW TUNES !!!. I also find that 'attitude' is found more with some of the oldies only crowd (not all) & the so called attitude & elitistism from the 'Upfront' crowd is generally in response to this.

Best Russ

Hi Russ,

That’s about right mate, some people can be put off by a passing remark on a thread, but I think some almost want to be put off if that makes sense. It justifies not bothering to give something a go.

I know some of my posts have been read the wrong way before also some have been taken out of context on purpose, but it shows how effective this modern technology is. It can be a good thing but it can also be a bad thing.

I’m glad I promoted in the days of genuine ‘word of mouth’ this has unfortunately been replaced with something that can be misused, hence we now can’t tell if a venue is good or not by a thread as some threads are so far from the truth.

Len.

[Little-stevie]

I hope that the upfront scene continues to grow and thrive

Looking for new stuff to play weather it be " new"', old but seldom played or undiscovered Is what the dj's at the wheel , torch Wigan ect were all about some great. I don't know how many more undiscovered 6ts tunes are left though! But I'm sure you toys will keep looking !

As I now only regularly attend the twisted wheel twice a month I don't know what people judge as overplayed oldies?

As the wheels policy is to try and keep to

The Origanal playlists from both the brazenose St and whitworth St sites you'd assume that it would be smae old same old , yes loads of classics but every time I go I hear something new to me have to ask someone "what the fxxk is that!"

Now that may be my lack of knowledge of early soul or r&b or it could be that dj's at hte wheel try and keep things fresh by playing obscure sounds?

would I go to an upfront do?

Don't think I'd fit in

I wear brogues, sta prest Fred perry and have the skinhead

I carry a black holdall (cos I dance for most of the 5 hours and need several change of shirts)

Would this class me as a

" holdall wankee"

"Dinosaur "

"stuck in a time warp"

"returnee "???

Don't think I'd feel welcome

Yours in soul Steven pike 52 years young and still enjoying it!!

you would be welcome at our event Steve as you are local.. We play a mix of sounds in 2 rooms and you get something that little bit different sounds wise for sure.. Who knows mate, you might like what you hear..

we play black soul music from the 60s/ 70s in the main on 45s but not your classics night, something a little bit different.. Is it Northern, rare groove, RnB, gospel funk, latin, crossover, deep funk, etc etc etc.. Lets just call it rare soul...

Get out and live it.... long time dead....

cheers..

Edited October 3, 2011 by little-stevie

[Little-stevie]

I hope that the upfront scene continues to grow and thrive

Looking for new stuff to play weather it be " new"', old but seldom played or undiscovered Is what the dj's at the wheel , torch Wigan ect were all about some great. I don't know how many more undiscovered 6ts tunes are left though! But I'm sure you toys will keep looking !

As I now only regularly attend the twisted wheel twice a month I don't know what people judge as overplayed oldies?

As the wheels policy is to try and keep to

The Origanal playlists from both the brazenose St and whitworth St sites you'd assume that it would be smae old same old , yes loads of classics but every time I go I hear something new to me have to ask someone "what the fxxk is that!"

Now that may be my lack of knowledge of early soul or r&b or it could be that dj's at hte wheel try and keep things fresh by playing obscure sounds?

would I go to an upfront do?

Don't think I'd fit in

I wear brogues, sta prest Fred perry and have the skinhead

I carry a black holdall (cos I dance for most of the 5 hours and need several change of shirts)

Would this class me as a

" holdall wankee"

"Dinosaur "

"stuck in a time warp"

"returnee "???

Don't think I'd feel welcome

Yours in soul Steven pike 52 years young and still enjoying it!!

oops.. duplicated...

cheers..

Edited October 3, 2011 by little-stevie

[Jez Jones]

you would be welcome at our event Steve as you are local.. We play a mix of sounds in 2 rooms and you get something that little bit different sounds wise for sure.. Who knows mate, you might like what you hear..

we play black soul music from the 60s/ 70s in the main on 45s but not your classics night, something a little bit different.. Is it Northern, rare groove, RnB, gospel funk, latin, crossover, deep funk, etc etc etc.. Lets just call it rare soul...

Get out and live it.... long time dead....

cheers..

Damn right it is--thoroughly recommended. Get down and give it a go--BUT relax don't make it hard work--you'll enjoy it more---too much thinking going on nowadays

[Little-stevie]

Damn right it is--thoroughly recommended. Get down and give it a go--BUT relax don't make it hard work--you'll enjoy it more---too much thinking going on nowadays

"Relax and do it, when you go through it"... wise words Jezz...

The northern scene was and still is the same for me and others.. Some classics, some lesser played great soul tunes and a good few that are new to your ears.. Aint rocket science...

Relax

[KevH]

Elitism is the belief or attitude of some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with intellect.

Definitely no one who goes to the venues i attend .lol

Irish

I hear you my Irish Brother.

[Steve G]

If you think the northern upfront scene is having it bad, you should see the state of the 70s and crossover scene.