Is Playing A Boot At A Venue Ever Acceptable

[Pete S]

if its been booted its old hat

Thats a really good point actually, anything bootlegged has, in 99% of cases, been a top sound, done the rounds, and should then be retired or bought out at oldies only do's.

[dthedrug]

But the Sweets is still a bootleg, no one gained financially except the bootlegger.

I can't see the point doing a cut from an LP, just take the LP with you. Why spend £20 on a cut when you can spend that elsewhere.

HI ALL If you keep the public back 10 foot you could play this copy and get away with it?

[Petedillon]

edited

Edited October 7, 2011 by PeteDillon

[Dave Moore]

its like the beige copy of porgy and the monarchs my heart cries for you , you cant play this side as its not the original at soul nights but the flipside is an unreleased track, its a dream ive always had , that was covered up as the peppermint men by butch i think , so oneside of the record is ok to be played but dont flip it over or you will get shot or whatever happens to people who play boots

strange world of northern soul

This ain't a bootleg is it though? It's a reissue specifically for the Northern Crowd isn't it?

Regards,

Dave

[Geeselad]

ive already mentioned on here about the soultown boot of the sweets - satify me baby, which includes the totally unissued instrumental backing track on the b-side. whilst it would be nice to have a genuine with the official b-side - something about my baby, for say,£900 i think there's no problem with playing the instrumental of the a-side because its actually UNISSUED, and to this day still is. and there's nothing wrong with vinyl carvers so long as we are talking about completely unissued tracks ( on vinyl that is )....what about cutting tracks from lps because you dont want to cart lps about when you are djing?, especially if those tracks never made it to a single but were considered good enough to be played on the scene?

Same as my little girl instro, on jay boy, isnt it?, but who wnats to hear stomping instro's nowadays anyway, esp if they've already been played on the scene,

Edited October 7, 2011 by geeselad

[Geeselad]

This ain't a bootleg is it though? It's a reissue specifically for the Northern Crowd isn't it?

Regards,

Dave

Just waiting for someone to throw in a ringer like this one, basically, the only question to ask is can you get it elsewhere on a more authentic format? is so dont play it, the Poggy and the monarchs is prev unreleased to obviously ok to play it, but not the other side for sure.

[Guest kev such]

I admire your honesty Kev

Look forward to getting to the cracker one of these days.

ATB dekka

p.s I did think you were gonna kick off though

Afternoon Dekka.

Didnt you know, Im always kicking off mate, .

Next Cream Cracker is the 10th of December, Pete " Caveman" Watkins is on the bill, if you and your good lady are avaiable you could possibly come along with him.

Regards

Kev

[Guest MARIO MANJARREZ]

And what for legal re-issues? the same as boots or legal re-issues it is acceptable to play at a venue?

[Douglas]

What happens if a DJ does play a bootleg,are the Soul Police called and the offender banned from DJ'ing for a while or fined (or both)

[Guest Bearsy]

What happens if a DJ does play a bootleg,are the Soul Police called and the offender banned from DJ'ing for a while or fined (or both)

its a djs choice and a promoters choice, if the venue is advertising OVO then thats down to the promoter, if its advertised as anyhting goes then its the punters choice to go or not, most people really dont give a shit they just wanna dance but there are plenty that do care cos its what the scene was built on, most know who where the boots are played so not really a problem at 99% of the venues, its just not cricket playing boots and the dj will be very limited to where he could dj if its all about the djn.

if not the offender will be made to walk the plank of Soul destroying

[Citizen P]

the most amount of people say they don,t play boots.........but they DO........theres not a local venue (to me that is ) that dosn,t whatever they may say......it,s a fact of life at soul nights and perfectly ok the important factor at these events is that they are there behind those decks by hook or by crook what format they use is (to them ) irrelevant at the venue, only important they say the right thing on this site ........places l go have dj,s with proper records and mainly stuff that wouldn,t even be on the bootleg radar.......there have however been a few rumours at the odd nighter that all is not right

No it isn't.

All Soul Nights are not the same, there are plenty-Up here any way, that have OVO policies.

ATB

Tony

[Dazdakin]

Not so long ago.......just before an average £20/£40 original suddenly became £500+ (85' ish) boots/pressings used to be played ALL the time at EVERY venue.

I will reserve judgement on the yes/no as its far more complicated than that but i would like to know what is the difference between then and now?

Surly it cannot just be the increase in value of 45's.

Just to light the touch paper further more though.........Grapevine(80's) and Destiny released lots of proper rare tracks with (i think) all the legal rights to do so, so therefore would they not be British originals?? and OK to play??

No difference on the above is there between Art Freeman on Fame and British Atlantic/ Inspirations on Black Pearl and Polydor in the UK etc.....etc..... hundreds of examples.

On Carvers i think its fine if NO original has ever been issued and is only available on some "found" master tapes or whatever format so long as no vinyl has ever been cut.

[Douglas]

I know some DJ's who play some monster originals but still throw in the odd boot,obviously the crowd think it's an original as 95% of the DJ's playlist is genuine.I'm talking along the lines of playing Al Williams on Palmer,then Ray Pollard on Shrine followed by a John & The Weirdest boot.

[ritchie]

kill um all , set there boots on fire and dance around them , i also think they shouldnt be sold on these forums but if so' they should have there own separate sales thread ,

Yeah but wouldn't that be dancing to BOOTS albeit ones on fire and not on turntable's??

Raising the question is it ok to dance to fiery boots...

And is fire the ingredient that makes boot dancing ok...or not..

Yeah and they have their own well established forum....e**y

[Guest]

What about a legitimate release 2nd issue is that not allowed ??

Edited October 7, 2011 by Guest

[Guest gordon russell]

No it isn't.

All Soul Nights are not the same, there are plenty-Up here any way, that have OVO policies.

ATB

Tony

as long as you're 100% sure then thats fine..........down northants way they all do......don,t expect anything else from em thats why we don,t attend em either atb T

[Ian Parker]

i'll not be playing my CUB issue of 'let me be your boy' then? or my black Bell issue of Bob brady ?? those who frown on UK issues (1st or subsequent) & pukka U.S releases need to get off soap boxes. ridiculous!

[Guest]

i'll not be playing my CUB issue of 'let me be your boy' then? or my black Bell issue of Bob brady ?? those who frown on UK issues (1st or subsequent) & pukka U.S releases need to get off soap boxes. ridiculous!

Cant beat Uk issues lot more desirable in my opinon I love the british demos etc fantastic.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Guest

[KevH]

i'll not be playing my CUB issue of 'let me be your boy' then? or my black Bell issue of Bob brady ?? those who frown on UK issues (1st or subsequent) & pukka U.S releases need to get off soap boxes. ridiculous!

Strangely,with some UK releases,it seems ok to play some and not others.

Its down to the dj's integrity,the venue/promoters expectations,and of course the people attending's expectations.

Edited October 7, 2011 by KevH

[Guest]

Maybe all Djs should go through one of these at every venue to check the dont have any bootlegs concealed about there person.

MAYDAY!!! MADAY!!! Bootleg detected call the chin strokers to check the deadwax

[Guest MrC]

I think it's mainly local oldies soul nights where boots get played, the much maligned "living in the past" crowd that don't do niters anymore, and just go out to a local soul/motown night just want to hear the tunes and don't care if it's an original or not, and anything thats advertised as a soul/motown night would be expected to have a slightly more commercial slant anyway.

I don't think it's a problem with your Soul Nights that aren't advertised as soul/motown nights, or the ones that are advertised as rare soul nights etc.

Most niters are populated by the more die hard upfront kind of music lover, (with the odd obvious OLDIEs niter exceptions) and the DJs that you find at these niters are all collectors and would play boots anyway (in general)

So, to sum up - commercially slanted soul & motown nite - probably, as no one really cares.

The current regular niters - definately not.

[Gogger]

i go out less than salman rushdie , but even i know it's o.v.o. , i'd feel cheated if anything else was played.

[Guest]

What about a legitimate release 2nd issue is that not allowed ??

I kid you not...one promoter of a well know nighter said that the playing of - Big Maybelle - Rojac 118 - I Can't Wait Any Longer - 1968 was definitely NOT allowed ... only the Rojac 115 from the previous year was allowed at his venue

sometimes it beggers belief what some think is not acceptable

[Guest kev such]

as long as you're 100% sure then thats fine..........down northants way they all do......don,t expect anything else from em thats why we don,t attend em either atb T

Who told you that Terry? Is this another one of your fictitous " I've seen it with my own eyes" occasions again?

[Guest]

I kid you not...one promoter of a well know nighter said that the playing of - Big Maybelle - Rojac 118 - I Can't Wait Any Longer - 1968 was definitely NOT allowed ... only the Rojac 115 from the previous year was allowed at his venue

sometimes it beggers belief what some think is not acceptable

Better check my copy then make sure it conforms thats why I play boots and pressings for the giggle lol

[Dave Abbott]

This ain't a bootleg is it though? It's a reissue specifically for the Northern Crowd isn't it?

Regards,

Dave

the 45 probalby was; but wasn't it a cock-up at the plant and instead of the labelled "Think Twice..." they put on "Hey Girl..."

[Guest kev such]

as long as you're 100% sure then thats fine..........down northants way they all do......don,t expect anything else from em thats why we don,t attend em either atb T

Who told you that Terry? Is this another one of your fictitous " I've seen it with my own eyes" occasions again? Then again you went to Simply Soul a month or so ago at Wicksteads Park, which is in NORTHANTS.

[Guest]

You cant beat bootlegs anyway because when they wear out you just get another one unlike an original where there is only ex amout of copys lol.

[davidwapples]

What happens if a DJ does play a bootleg,are the Soul Police called and the offender banned from DJ'ing for a while or fined (or both)

they are probably given a spot at one of the oldies events in peterborough

Edited October 7, 2011 by davidwapples

[SOULCENTRAL]

Are we saying on here that every dj at almost every event up and down the country do not own any boots whatsoever and therefore does not play them at all?.

As has been stated in many posts on this subject the biggest majority of punters in attendance at classic northern/motown/ soul nights are oblivious to weather OVO is on the decks and quite frankly dont care so long as it is to their liking. The rare/underplayed and nighter crowd are a different animal and god help anyone who plays a boot as their name will be mud.

My take on it is if the crowd in attendance do not have a problem with it then there is no problem with playing boots, they pay their money they make their choice. Then i suppose the arguments will rain as to should the dl;s get paid for playing boots and should promotors charge in for the privelidge of listening to boots?.

Let the bullets fly and try to put the lid back on the can of worms.

regards ROY

[Chalky]

Are we saying on here that every dj at almost every event up and down the country do not own any boots whatsoever and therefore does not play them at all?.

As has been stated in many posts on this subject the biggest majority of punters in attendance at classic northern/motown/ soul nights are oblivious to weather OVO is on the decks and quite frankly dont care so long as it is to their liking. The rare/underplayed and nighter crowd are a different animal and god help anyone who plays a boot as their name will be mud.

My take on it is if the crowd in attendance do not have a problem with it then there is no problem with playing boots, they pay their money they make their choice. Then i suppose the arguments will rain as to should the dl;s get paid for playing boots and should promotors charge in for the privelidge of listening to boots?.

Let the bullets fly and try to put the lid back on the can of worms.

regards ROY

what happens if you pay your money expecting to hear originals? You then get a DJ playing boots? Does the promoter reimburse monies if asked? The promoters should state their stance then punters can make the choice then, solves all the arguing doesn't it.

Why though does a promoter feel the need to book a DJ who plays boots? This is something I can't understand. There are 100's out here with the real deal so no need what so ever to go down the path of boots even at local soul nights. Many happy to DJ for very little by the way of a fee.

[soulsalmon]

well put mate

[SOULCENTRAL]

what happens if you pay your money expecting to hear originals? You then get a DJ playing boots? Does the promoter reimburse monies if asked? The promoters should state their stance then punters can make the choice then, solves all the arguing doesn't it.

Why though does a promoter feel the need to book a DJ who plays boots? This is something I can't understand. There are 100's out here with the real deal so no need what so ever to go down the path of boots even at local soul nights. Many happy to DJ for very little by the way of a fee.

CHALKS,

Spot on regards both points.

ROY

[tim smithers]

Wouldnt it be good if promotors were blocked from adding an event on here , until they were prompted to press a yes or no button to say if there nite was ovo or not, then all the paying public would no and could make there own mind up

[Soultown andy]

Dear god almighty just read the dj lineup before you go,if its not for you dont go.

[Timbob]

dear god, if people going to a soul night or all nighter need to know that all the vinyl played at the venue is the certified original then the scene surely has lost its way

[Agentsmith]

But the Sweets is still a bootleg, no one gained financially except the bootlegger. I can't see the point doing a cut from an LP, just take the LP with you. Why spend £20 on a cut when you can spend that elsewhere.

yes i know its a boot chalkx, but the instrumental was NEVER legitimately released, so technically it ISNT a boot despite it being on the b-side of a boot....in all walks of life there are technicalities that challenge the blindingly obvious....im suggesting hypothetically, that infact the instrumental is THE VERY FIRST RELEASE of a recording that existed only on a studio tape.

I DO take lps with me...BUT i would prefer, as i am sure we all would in certain cases, that particular tracks WERE on 7", thus, necessitating NOT taking lps with me!....i put the jerry butler version of "right track" onto a carver on account of the fact IT DOSNT EXIST on vinyl....it appeared once on a double cd compilation " the mercury years", u.s. release only, circa 1990 now long since deleted and very sought after. its a completely different take on his brother, billy's version.

[Soultown andy]

dear god i think your right .Surely peeps should only attend venues that meet their own personal feelings on ovo only ,the dj lineup should tell you everythin you need to know about a venue.

[tim smithers]

I for one dont know what each and every dj plays up and down the country ( could be up too 400 in one nite ) and im pretty sure you dont either mr soultown

[Soultown andy]

I for one dont know what each and every dj plays up and down the country ( could be up too 400 in one nite ) and im pretty sure you dont either mr soultown

Well obviously not every dj,but lets be honest most lineups will tell you what you need to know about a venue.Im sure you know what i mean .

[Chalky]

yes i know its a boot chalkx, but the instrumental was NEVER legitimately released, so technically it ISNT a boot despite it being on the b-side of a boot....in all walks of life there are technicalities that challenge the blindingly obvious....im suggesting hypothetically, that infact the instrumental is THE VERY FIRST RELEASE of a recording that existed only on a studio tape.

I DO take lps with me...BUT i would prefer, as i am sure we all would in certain cases, that particular tracks WERE on 7", thus, necessitating NOT taking lps with me!....i put the jerry butler version of "right track" onto a carver on account of the fact IT DOSNT EXIST on vinyl....it appeared once on a double cd compilation " the mercury years", u.s. release only, circa 1990 now long since deleted and very sought after. its a completely different take on his brother billy's version.

I can see your logic with the instrumental but it is still a bootleg as it was an unauthorised release, done without the necessary licensing or any monies going to the owner of the track.

Why play an instrumental though when there's a better vocal, it's inferior.

Maybe CD players should be installed in this day and age, save the cost of a carver.

[Chalky]

dear god, if people going to a soul night or all nighter need to know that all the vinyl played at the venue is the certified original then the scene surely has lost its way

I think 99% know what they are listening to and who plays what. Why this argument keeps arising I don't know because it is practically irrelevant in the real world. As said most don't care when at a soul night and by and large nighter DJ's stick to the rule, most promoters know what they are getting with most DJ's. Some venues do play boots though and are quite happy to do so without advertising the fact.

[Pete S]

I can see your logic with the instrumental but it is still a bootleg as it was an unauthorised release, done without the necessary licensing or any monies going to the owner of the track.

Why play an instrumental though when there's a better vocal, it's inferior.

It's a moot point but I reckon that could be a legit release because he would have had to have gained access to the Soultown master tapes to get hold of the instrumental version.

[Theothertosspot]

Same as my little girl instro, on jay boy, isnt it?, but who wnats to hear stomping instro's nowadays anyway, esp if they've already been played on the scene,

Would like to hear Sweet Darlin instro occasionally, but didn't it on;y come out on Black Magic? is this a boot, legal first issue on UK, reissue or what

[Spacehopper]

right this has been done to death but this is my take on some points raised.....quotes shortened

'pre 85 most people played boots and wasnt a prob '...well pre internet originals were still bloody hard to get so thats probably why...now theres no excuse

'people at oldies nites dont care its only rare soul fans'....well i think oldies fans would if every night they went to every dj was playing the same big tunes and i mean every night ..im sure even oldies fans would bet board...nites like the kings hall etc would not then be so special and also big recent tunes like jt parker etc would probably have not have been discovered if every dj could get away with playing a £10 jackie day or parliaments...why bother going to the states and discovering the new killers!...how long would the scene last then...if the stafford djs just played wigan boots etc

2nd issues? i think ifwe are talkin 60s and they are still 60s releases(remember most big label 7" singles had a lot long run back then, and the local/national label) then thats fine ann sexton yellow 77...if its a 70s 2nd issue ann sexton multi coulured then no

same for uk releases...60s columbia fine...70s inferno's no..play the yankie if its not been released in uk in the 60s...if its not been release in the us or uk in the 60s as with a lot of kent than ofcourse thats fine

these are my opinions and rules for ME ..not complicated at all...and rules that will keep this scene alive

dean

[Spacehopper]

im playing in bath tonite and i know its not ovo but im not going to be lazy and play a grapevine tomangoes...im gonna play my originals...its not just our taste that make us different djs its all our financial situations and thats a good thing because it means loads of brilliant cheaper tunes get heard!...and every dj SHOULD find and have his own style...simple!

dean

[Guest Bearsy]

im playing in bath tonite and i know its not ovo but im not going to be lazy and play a grapevine tomangoes...im gonna play my originals...its not just our taste that make us different djs its all our financial situations and thats a good thing because it means loads of brilliant cheaper tunes get heard!...and every dj SHOULD find and have his own style...simple!

dean

for fook sake Dean be careful i played a set in the bath once and nearly electricuted meself and watch out you dont water damage your lables too

Edited October 7, 2011 by Bearsy

[Agentsmith]

It's a moot point but I reckon that could be a legit release because he would have had to have gained access to the Soultown master tapes to get hold of the instrumental version.

I CONCUR PETE, simon just so happened to be in the right place at the right time....regardless of wether they knew that and wether what he was doing was right!!

you know we all realise that bootlegging is resonsible for robbing people of a legitimate dollar, even after they're long gone, but if for one moment you think out of the box........those boots amounted to far more in number than the artists original release which, in most cases was cut in little tin can studios with next to zero distribution....yet if 1000 boots were bought by 1000 appreciative soulies, at least that artist gained some recognition be it not monetary which they wouldnt have got otherwise....DONT GET ME WRONG a bit of the lucre would never go amiss, but they gave their heart and soul to these recordings and im sure at the end of the day, the fact that a 1000 people really got off on their song, that would mean the world to them.

NOTICE i havent even mentioned the villain of the peice.....OR WAS SIMON REALLY??....whatever his ill-gotten gains, it remains a fact that he was largely responsible for bringing thousands of tunes to our attention that probably would have been discovered sooner or later, but he was there FIRST,....he just took the next step to make a larger audience aware.

THINK ON THIS THOUGH.....in 74, there was the oil crisis......which resulted in vinyl being scrapped, recalled and melted down to keep the commercial music industry ticking over in the face of a severe shortage....WHAT IF ALL THOSE TUNES WE TAKE FOR GRANTED, HAD DISAPPEARED ON THE BACK BURNER?. we have a lot to be grateful for with regards simon and his ilk.

[Guest United Sound]

Thats a really good point actually, anything bootlegged has, in 99% of cases, been a top sound, done the rounds, and should then be retired or bought out at oldies only do's.

Was Brice Coefield ever booted (it wasn't in the 70's) or other such similar records played at Blackpool and other venues of the time? are these few non bootlegged only to be played alongside new discoveries at rare venues, which if you are lucky will include Eddie Parker, Appreciations, Arin Damain, etc - all 70's plays that were booted or reissued (and not usually played at oldies nights because they are deemed too rare0

[Guest]

right this has been done to death but this is my take on some points raised.....quotes shortened

'pre 85 most people played boots and wasnt a prob '...well pre internet originals were still bloody hard to get so thats probably why...now theres no excuse

'people at oldies nites dont care its only rare soul fans'....well i think oldies fans would if every night they went to every dj was playing the same big tunes and i mean every night ..im sure even oldies fans would bet board...nites like the kings hall etc would not then be so special and also big recent tunes like jt parker etc would probably have not have been discovered if every dj could get away with playing a £10 jackie day or parliaments...why bother going to the states and discovering the new killers!...how long would the scene last then...if the stafford djs just played wigan boots etc

2nd issues? i think ifwe are talkin 60s and they are still 60s releases(remember most big label 7" singles had a lot long run back then, and the local/national label) then thats fine ann sexton yellow 77...if its a 70s 2nd issue ann sexton multi coulured then no

same for uk releases...60s columbia fine...70s inferno's no..play the yankie if its not been released in uk in the 60s...if its not been release in the us or uk in the 60s as with a lot of kent than ofcourse thats fine

these are my opinions and rules for ME ..not complicated at all...and rules that will keep this scene alive

dean

what about playing a reissue of Frank Beverly .... how would you stand on that ?

Its simple really: Its Black or White with lots of Grey Areas