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Can You Id The Source Of Film

All About the SOUL wiggyflat

 
Posted

Seen these clips a few times and we have had a thread about TOTP and Footsee...but can anyone ID the other pieces of footage.I have always led to believe that the footage of lad in adidas trainers doing a handstand was from a yoof tv programme called So It Goes or Something Else from 78/79.Is this from the same footage where the black lad handstands into splits? (not on this).The other footage looks like a school hall.This was on the northern soul documentary that came with a CD from a few years ago.Where was it from ? By the way there's still no evidence that D Drugs handheld super 8 footage from the Casino balcony is still footage is still in existance in Letchworth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di02cko2SMM

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The first clip is definitely Footsee on Top Of The Pops.

The second, sorry don't know where that originated but saw it again recently in a documentary Pete Waterman did which was shown on Central tv only.

Third is specially shot footage from a few years back made to look like it's old, I believe.

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The first clip is definitely Footsee on Top Of The Pops.

The second, sorry don't know where that originated but saw it again recently in a documentary Pete Waterman did which was shown on Central tv only.

Third is specially shot footage from a few years back made to look like it's old, I believe.

That 3rd shot pete has sandy holt dancin in the middle,so must av been shot quite a while back as he looks quite youngish.The coloured lad looks familiar but its not vernon or gid harding,any ideas.

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I'm sure the second was Something Else ....a programme made and introduced by a load of kids looking at certain aspects of their lives.I think the Wigan one was about a few kids from Skelmersdale who went to Wigan.I'm sure a mate of mine has the full programme on video somewhere.His family had a video recorder early on.. I'm going to raid his tape cupboard.That school footage is amazing if it is mocked up.....

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guess this footage will never materialize dispite the fact, and i have no cause to disbelieve him, that dave kilworth says it does exist and the guy still has it.....perhaps even if he has been contacted, he feels it is the least of his priorities. i will always consider it a shame that we have lost the totp footage forever,a travesty of justice that the beeb had such a lack of foresight and thats regardless of what the actual record means to the scene...it was a time capsule that bought some legendary dancers to the attention of, not just the bewildered public at large, but to all followers of this religion who, in their time, were inspired to do just the same...the outcome now being a greater exposee of that era but in the hands of 100's of young kids who likewise, are seeking something more aspirational than the everyday mundane ....the worm has turned....what goes around, comes around, only difference is its 40 years on and we live in a hi-tec age...to these young generations what was considered some inane novelty to the press in their parents time, is actually cool, is music that dosnt have to have graphically aggressive lyrics and is so much easier to dance to and, contrary to popular belief, you DONT need drugs to get off on it.

as regards the footage here, its included in "way of the crowd", the dvd is titled "soul junction" and, unbelieveably is now 7 years old!. footnote: featured in the closing sequence is chris ( trickster )...what an irony...havent seen this guy in the flesh since trips to the 100 club, early millenium...well blow me down if this guy isnt standing in front of me at the kings hall, stoke last week...he said he hadnt been to stoke for 12 years!

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I'm sure the second was Something Else ....a programme made and introduced by a load of kids looking at certain aspects of their lives.I think the Wigan one was about a few kids from Skelmersdale who went to Wigan.I'm sure a mate of mine has the full programme on video somewhere.His family had a video recorder early on.. I'm going to raid his tape cupboard.That school footage is amazing if it is mocked up.....

that mention of Skelmersdale rang a bell and led to this entry

http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/352189?view=synopsis

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The one where he has no shirt on and three lasses is a granada show I think. If you look for the Sweets track on Youtube the goo0d one by Bigcityrob or something like that all the info is in the comments.

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Omnibus was the program. Details are in the comments.

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If that 3rd clip is mocked up its brilliant,the kid takein sandy off has him to a tee daft soul fist an all.Were can i get a copy of this, gonna take it to show him.

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I actually wrote to Tom Hassett in Letchworth and got no reply.Dave Kil said he fimed it on the balcony from a handheld super 8 camera the same night at the Granada cameras were there.I have the sneaky suspicion that the footage on the Springers clip looks earlier than 1980 though and we haven't seen the So It Goes footage??? I have got some amazing colour footage of the mid seventies scooter rallies from 75/76 so the stuff is out there.Here's another taster from the same footage....hooped coloured socks in 1980???

http://www.youtube.com/user/dundee2wigan#p/u/0/KuomXuwtPbE

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Posted

The 3rd clip, the other white lad is Dave Litherland (lugsy) from Horwich (now Carlisle) and has to be an old clip, I'l ask him for more info

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Posted

the comments on YT say most of the footage was from a documentary called The Sound Of¯»¿ The Crowd.

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The 3rd clip, the other white lad is Dave Litherland (lugsy) from Horwich (now Carlisle) and has to be an old clip, I'l ask him for more info

Quickly scanning the comments Dave himself responds in the comments on the Sweets video. The dancers are Dave himself, Sandy, Johhny Burke, Julie Bebb & Sue Hollis.

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the comments on YT say most of the footage was from a documentary called The Sound Of¯»¿ The Crowd.

Way Of The Crowd I think mate.

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Way Of The Crowd I think mate.

Not sure Pete, just going by the comments, can't remember if I've ever seen that one??

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johhny burke thats the colured lad,from bolton.Used to knockabout with dave t gall les browning,not seen for years think he went to london .

halina

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Quickly scanning the comments Dave himself responds in the comments on the Sweets video. The dancers are Dave himself, Sandy, Johhny Burke, Julie Bebb & Sue Hollis.

Well Dave is now 53/54 and about 15 stone without being fat, so the clip has got to be quite old

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OK I should have actually watched the clip properly - I was thinking of some footage in the Way Of The Crowd film which I was certain was shot specifically for it.

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Dave says he reckons it was filmed (clip 3) around 77 in a studio in Manchester on a Wednesday afternoon, and then onto the Casino later,

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The one where he has no shirt on and three lasses is a granada show I think. If you look for the Sweets track on Youtube the goo0d one by Bigcityrob or something like that all the info is in the comments.

did guys frequently dance shirtless at 70s northern events?

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OK I should have actually watched the clip properly - I was thinking of some footage in the Way Of The Crowd film which I was certain was shot specifically for it.

look pete, i know i said i love you man, as a good buddy and top record dealer but i want to put fat in the fire here, because im sure the toss has been argued over wether THAT TOTP footage IS.....THE ACTUAL RECORDING or......A DRESS REHEARSAL IN THE STUDIO'S because as far as i can remember the camera's were never pulled in that close, the lighting was not that bright and the camera angle whilst slightly above head height, was not at an oblique......I SAY FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER.

more to the point, who originally posted this footage on soulsource, where did they source it from?. i have had this related to me on a number of occasions by tim brown that whilst researching for his book, he referred to bbc archives and questioned prominent people within the organization as to the original program whereabouts and availability, the response to which was, that it like a good many thousand other titles had been wiped from the tapes and thats not just totp but ALL types of programs......NO WONDER THE 70'S ARE THE FORGOTTEN DECADE....THE BBC MUST HAVE FELT EXACTLY THE SAME.......NOTHING WORTH KEEPING!!....IS THAT NOT AN IRONY?

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did guys frequently dance shirtless at 70s northern events?

some still do..when they spin you get covered in there sweat.....yuk :huh:

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look pete, i know i said i love you man, as a good buddy and top record dealer but i want to put fat in the fire here, because im sure the toss has been argued over wether THAT TOTP footage IS.....THE ACTUAL RECORDING or......A DRESS REHEARSAL IN THE STUDIO'S because as far as i can remember the camera's were never pulled in that close, the lighting was not that bright and the camera angle whilst slightly above head height, was not at an oblique......I SAY FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER.

more to the point, who originally posted this footage on soulsource, where did they source it from?. i have had this related to me on a number of occasions by tim brown that whilst researching for his book, he referred to bbc archives and questioned prominent people within the organization as to the original program whereabouts and availability, the response to which was, that it like a good many thousand other titles had been wiped from the tapes and thats not just totp but ALL types of programs......NO WONDER THE 70'S ARE THE FORGOTTEN DECADE....THE BBC MUST HAVE FELT EXACTLY THE SAME.......NOTHING WORTH KEEPING!!....IS THAT NOT AN IRONY?

the first clip doesnt seem quite "right" for a totp clip or as my memory had it to me either

there was a copy of the actual totp programme listed in a 'odd' auction, I posted about it years ago

dunno if ever came to ought but thats as far as i went with it

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some still do..when they spin you get covered in there sweat.....yuk :huh:

really? the dudes in that video are ripped, would be totally a different thing with out of shape 50+ year old guys spinning around topless.

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really? the dudes in that video are ripped, would be totally a different thing with out of shape 50+ year old guys spinning around topless.

:lol: usually the skinny ones who dance with no shirt these days, there's not many though. Still plenty in vests.

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Posted (edited)

So the adidas trainers man footage is probably Something Else from 24/5/80 (is this the same footage where the black lad goes to handstand and splits?),school hall/no tops is from Omnibus 9/8/78 ,hooped socks footage may be from Omnibus as well??

Re Footsee...that is still in the BBC archives....look at the top left hand corner a BBC logo.

Re Omnibus i recently got the skinhead/greasers episode.A full programme so this Omnibus probably exists somewhere.Anybody know what it was about?

Edited by wiggyflat

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the kid in adidas trainers and the black guy spinning look like same venue looking at floor and bit of stage behind.

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look pete, i know i said i love you man, as a good buddy and top record dealer but i want to put fat in the fire here, because im sure the toss has been argued over wether THAT TOTP footage IS.....THE ACTUAL RECORDING or......A DRESS REHEARSAL IN THE STUDIO'S because as far as i can remember the camera's were never pulled in that close, the lighting was not that bright and the camera angle whilst slightly above head height, was not at an oblique......I SAY FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER.

more to the point, who originally posted this footage on soulsource, where did they source it from?. i have had this related to me on a number of occasions by tim brown that whilst researching for his book, he referred to bbc archives and questioned prominent people within the organization as to the original program whereabouts and availability, the response to which was, that it like a good many thousand other titles had been wiped from the tapes and thats not just totp but ALL types of programs......NO WONDER THE 70'S ARE THE FORGOTTEN DECADE....THE BBC MUST HAVE FELT EXACTLY THE SAME.......NOTHING WORTH KEEPING!!....IS THAT NOT AN IRONY?

Rob, can you or can you not see Jethro and Steve Powell?

I rest my holdall.

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So the adidas trainers man footage is probably Something Else from 24/5/80 (is this the same footage where the black lad goes to handstand and splits?),school hall/no tops is from Omnibus 9/8/78 ,hooped socks footage may be from Omnibus as well??

Re Footsee...that is still in the BBC archives....look at the top left hand corner a BBC logo.

Re Omnibus i recently got the skinhead/greasers episode.A full programme so this Omnibus probably exists somewhere.Anybody know what it was about?

dont think that logo is bbc, if look closer looks like its his own tas tv thing

tell you what wrong with that totp clip - the crowds at the back - from memory i picture it the other way around - could be wrong of course

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Posted (edited)

the kid in adidas trainers and the black guy spinning look like same venue looking at floor and bit of stage behind.

It's not on here but when Whistle Test did their northern soul reporting they used footage of a black lad cartwheeling and going into splits.Not on this clip.I'm assuming that was from the Something Else programme from 1980...

at 2.35 on here

Edited by wiggyflat

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Posted (edited)

dont think that logo is bbc, if look closer looks like its his own tas tv thing

tell you what wrong with that totp clip - the crowds at the back - from memory i picture it the other way around - could be wrong of course

BBC FOUR it was from a 4 or 5 episode series on dance culture.It's in their archive.They touched on northern soul and showed this tiny clip which is wherethe youtuber got it from.Seems like they were fobbing Tim Brown off.I did have that play on dvd as well but it's gone astray.Great Grapevine soundtrack as well.

Edited by wiggyflat

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So the adidas trainers man footage is probably Something Else from 24/5/80 (is this the same footage where the black lad goes to handstand and splits?),school hall/no tops is from Omnibus 9/8/78 ,hooped socks footage may be from Omnibus as well??

Re Footsee...that is still in the BBC archives....look at the top left hand corner a BBC logo.

Re Omnibus i recently got the skinhead/greasers episode.A full programme so this Omnibus probably exists somewhere.Anybody know what it was about?

yes, im aware of that......mike's train of thought is alike to mine mate, whilst it may be the totp studio....THIS IS NOT THE RECORDING, NOT THE ONE THAT WENT OUT ON THAT PARTICULAR THUSDAY NIGHT AND REPEATED ON AT LEAST 2/3 OTHER OCCASIONS.....THIS HAS TO BE A REHEARSAL....THE GENUINE "SHOW FOOTAGE" DOSNT EXIST ANYMORE.

if you recall, last year i questioned the possibility that totp was taken by other european tv companies......AND MY THEORY IS THAT THERE'S A CHANCE IT MAY STILL EXIST IN ARCHIVES ABROAD...its a longshot....we may never know.

the 8mm film has to viewed in the same context, pity some bright spark didnt smuggle one into totp on that occasion! :g:

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Posted (edited)

So the adidas trainers man footage is probably Something Else from 24/5/80 (is this the same footage where the black lad goes to handstand and splits?),school hall/no tops is from Omnibus 9/8/78 ,hooped socks footage may be from Omnibus as well??

Re Footsee...that is still in the BBC archives....look at the top left hand corner a BBC logo.

Re Omnibus i recently got the skinhead/greasers episode.A full programme so this Omnibus probably exists somewhere.Anybody know what it was about?

The lad in the trainers is Shomir from Bradford it is taken from the Skelmersdale film made in 1980, it was shot at the Casino on a surreal Saturday afternoon Vernon was there too. It would appear it lies in the BBC archive, they usually trot a clip out whenever the BBC talks about NS on the local news. Most clips on youtube have been removed presumably because of copyright issues and the BBC. They shot lots of film that day it would appear that Paul Sadot obtained all the footage including uncut material as it was used as a backdrop for the stage play.

Edited by monkey

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dont think that logo is bbc, if look closer looks like its his own tas tv thing

tell you what wrong with that totp clip - the crowds at the back - from memory i picture it the other way around - could be wrong of course

again agree mike, the crowd were NOT standing on the stage, as with all totp progs, the audience were BELOW the raised stage and they were LOOKING UP watching the dancers with drop jaws.....LIKE WOW!, WHAT PLANET HAVE I BEEN ON FOR THE LAST MILLION YEARS?

AS I HAVE SAID....THIS IS NOT THE "SHOW FOOTAGE"

just out of interest, will somebody PLEASE post up the full line-up on that night?,...i can vouch for jethro and steve powell, being the midland contingent from the catacombs, cant remember if jacko did it as well but there should be 7/8 dancers

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BBC FOUR it was from a 4 or 5 episode series on dance culture.It's in their archive.They touched on northern soul and showed this tiny clip which is wherethe youtuber got it from.Seems like they were fobbing Tim Brown off.I did have that play on dvd as well but it's gone astray.Great Grapevine soundtrack as well.

I can replace that for you if you really want it..

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Rob, can you or can you not see Jethro and Steve Powell?

I rest my holdall.

Jethro is in red and white striped top

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again agree mike, the crowd were NOT standing on the stage, as with all totp progs, the audience were BELOW the raised stage and they were LOOKING UP watching the dancers with drop jaws.....LIKE WOW!, WHAT PLANET HAVE I BEEN ON FOR THE LAST MILLION YEARS?

AS I HAVE SAID....THIS IS NOT THE "SHOW FOOTAGE"

just out of interest, will somebody PLEASE post up the full line-up on that night?,...i can vouch for jethro and steve powell, being the midland contingent from the catacombs, cant remember if jacko did it as well but there should be 7/8 dancers

Find it strange that Gethro had a striped shirt ? as his"Trademark" was always that Celtic shirt maybe taken at rehearsal? i´m surprised at the Catacombs contingent quote? don´t remember him being so noticeable as a "spinner" there(maybe too young, him not me) but i do remember Eggy and Andy and the Homepride shirts as being the best spinners at the Cats(and i was learning as well :rofl: )

Steve

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Seen these clips a few times and we have had a thread about TOTP and Footsee...but can anyone ID the other pieces of footage.I have always led to believe that the footage of lad in adidas trainers doing a handstand was from a yoof tv programme called So It Goes or Something Else from 78/79.Is this from the same footage where the black lad handstands into splits? (not on this).The other footage looks like a school hall.This was on the northern soul documentary that came with a CD from a few years ago.Where was it from ? By the way there's still no evidence that D Drugs handheld super 8 footage from the Casino balcony is still footage is still in existance in Letchworth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di02cko2SMM

its not totp or footsee billy

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Rob, can you or can you not see Jethro and Steve Powell?

I rest my holdall.

And Anne Rogers from Shevington, in the yellow vest & pig tails.

Paul

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the first clip doesnt seem quite "right" for a totp clip or as my memory had it to me either

there was a copy of the actual totp programme listed in a 'odd' auction, I posted about it years ago

dunno if ever came to ought but thats as far as i went with it

mike, only just read this...thats really odd and intriguing at the same time.....so was nothing done about finding out who purchased it? and where in this country, if here at all, it has disappeared to?

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Blonde longish haired lad spinning with no shirt on is Jacko 100%

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look pete, i know i said i love you man, as a good buddy and top record dealer but i want to put fat in the fire here, because im sure the toss has been argued over wether THAT TOTP footage IS.....THE ACTUAL RECORDING or......A DRESS REHEARSAL IN THE STUDIO'S because as far as i can remember the camera's were never pulled in that close, the lighting was not that bright and the camera angle whilst slightly above head height, was not at an oblique......I SAY FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER. more to the point, who originally posted this footage on soulsource, where did they source it from?. i have had this related to me on a number of occasions by tim brown that whilst researching for his book, he referred to bbc archives and questioned prominent people within the organization as to the original program whereabouts and availability, the response to which was, that it like a good many thousand other titles had been wiped from the tapes and thats not just totp but ALL types of programs......NO WONDER THE 70'S ARE THE FORGOTTEN DECADE....THE BBC MUST HAVE FELT EXACTLY THE SAME.......NOTHING WORTH KEEPING!!....IS THAT NOT AN IRONY?

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..i'm inclined to agree...i remember the footage being different..i can remember Tony blackburn messing up the intro as he announced that the dancers would be doing a dance routine called the footsee...maybe it was a rehearsal..for sure thats Gethro in the red/white striped footie shirt..maybe Bob Monkhouse recorded it...

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Posted (edited)

I have e mailed Kaleidescope who look after Bob's archive regarding this in the past but no reply........I wonder who has the large haul of video tapes that got sold for 25k with this episode? I bet it's bloody Dave Clark who has the rights to RSG and won't release anything.Has anyone on here got the Omnibus episodes from 24/5/80 and 9/8/78 or the complete Something Else with the Skelmersdale kids.

Edited by wiggyflat

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I have e mailed Kaleidescope who look after Bob's archive regarding this in the past but no reply........I wonder who has the large haul of video tapes that got sold for 25k with this episode? I bet it's bloody Dave Clark who has the rights to RSG and won't release anything.Has anyone on here got the Omnibus episodes from 24/5/80 and 9/8/78 or the complete Something Else with the Skelmersdale kids.

well, you see now, we have to different perspectives here,a collection of video's purporting to have amongst them the footage concerned and the bbc saying that this particular program dosnt exist anymore....so did they say it had been erased because actually they weren't bloody sure of the circumstances at all?, and that, even after telling tim this whilst he was in the midst of research for his book. i presume the sale of a large amount of videos would have attracted some media attention, therefore a report of it must exist in archives, and perhaps who the benefactor was...and even if it was possible to get to the bottom of this mystery, whats the chances of the footage being amongst the collection, a red herring?...back to square one again?. yes, its unfortunate that mr.clark posesses such a stubborn attitude, its not exactly like he needs the money...you're a long time dead and you cant take it with you...so to speak. r.s.g. just so happened to be one of the most influential shows of its era,the entire collection of which, should be abiding on all serious connoisuers shelves...and the same goes for one minute piece of film from the seventies that quantifies the media's opinion of our music at the time but to us...at the time, was an acceptance of the fact our music was there to be listened and danced to,..was the reality of what was REALLY going on in the outside world and, most importantly, struck a chord with disillusioned youth about the false glamour of pop of the time and provided an alternative outlet to go to places where likeminded people gathered and established lifelong friendships, all governed under the same banner....the love for a music that even today, simply wont go away because it sounds as refreshing and invocative as it did all those years ago.

Edited by AGENTSMITH

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Looks like there are 2 separate threads going on at the moment that are very similar and overlap many times:

Check this thread for similar questions and answers.

All Our Yesterdays: 'Wigan Footage' started by Zed1 Dec 25 2011.

derek

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Hi, The sequence with the topless (male) dancers was from a short film shown on the BBC. I didn't realise it was on Omnibus but I saw it when it went out in the summer of '78.

The film was about "dance culture" in the north of England and was a pretty flimsy affair. It focused on three genres: Heavy rock/metal, "Roxy" and Northern Soul. The whole thing couldn't have been more than ten minutes long.

Each segment was short, just the length of the song they were dancing to. There was no dialogue that I recall. It just went from one segment to the next.

The heavy rock section featured a dance hall full of greasers dancing in an elaborate "spread" manner. The "Roxy" section (Bowie/Roxy Music, etc) featured a club in Manchester I think. The Northern guys were dancing to Afternoon of The Rhino. Whether they were actually dancing to this or it was overlaid I don't know but this was definitely the music and they did appear to be in synch.

As I recall (I was in the 6th form at the time) there was a brief review in the paper the next day, Guardian or Times probably, where the director/maker was accused of going "astray" on some parts. I think this was on the Roxy segment which may have appeared too avant garde or unrepresentative for the reviewer. I remember that the Northern Soul segment received more favourable comments.

I'm pretty sure that the intro music to the film ( as a whole, not just the Northern section) was Interplay. I'm not sure about this but I think that the clip of film which features in some youtube films of the girl dancing in the Casino (spinning /long skirt/white socks/polyveldts) may have been in the Interplay intro. She looks like the same girl dancing to Rhino

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If this information is already out there or this topics been done to death I apologize in advance.

With regard to the short film I mentioned: I tried searching for this in old local paper TV schedules a couple of years ago since I has always bugged me as to what it was called. All I could remember was that it had a strange title. I didn't get anywhere but since reading here it was on Omnibus I found it and it all came flooding back:

"Disco Delights, Or What A Way To End It All" by David Richardson. The main film shown was "The People's Park" a documentary about Central Park ,New York and this would probably be the title for anyone searching for it.

A good starting point for anyone trying to track down the Footsee clip would be the "found" TOTP footage of Queen performing Now I'm Here. This was one of the big finds last year of missing TOTP clips previously wiped, along with Bowie's 1973 "Jean Genie" clip.

According to the folks on the missing-episodes forum the Queen footage (on youtube) was obtained from the 30-1-75 show. It was on this show that Footsee was first played - at the end, after the Number One and including the end credits (the other time was 20-2-75 where it was also played at the end and included the credits.

More importantly it was confirmed at missing-episodes that the Queen footage was obtained from a private home video recording. This raises the slight prospect at least that the whole show may have been taped.

Mas

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If this information is already out there or this topics been done to death I apologize in advance.

With regard to the short film I mentioned: I tried searching for this in old local paper TV schedules a couple of years ago since I has always bugged me as to what it was called. All I could remember was that it had a strange title. I didn't get anywhere but since reading here it was on Omnibus I found it and it all came flooding back:

"Disco Delights, Or What A Way To End It All" by David Richardson. The main film shown was "The People's Park" a documentary about Central Park ,New York and this would probably be the title for anyone searching for it.

A good starting point for anyone trying to track down the Footsee clip would be the "found" TOTP footage of Queen performing Now I'm Here. This was one of the big finds last year of missing TOTP clips previously wiped, along with Bowie's 1973 "Jean Genie" clip.

According to the folks on the missing-episodes forum the Queen footage (on youtube) was obtained from the 30-1-75 show. It was on this show that Footsee was first played - at the end, after the Number One and including the end credits (the other time was 20-2-75 where it was also played at the end and included the credits.

More importantly it was confirmed at missing-episodes that the Queen footage was obtained from a private home video recording. This raises the slight prospect at least that the whole show may have been taped.

Mas

here's some info i posted from 2008 about a possible copy

http://www.soul-sour...pe-exists-r1903

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