Is It Fair To Call These Boots?

[Sjclement]

During the mid seventies a few UK companies released (legally) some of the big northern records

Linda Jones Just Cant live my life Warner

MVPs Turning My heartbeat up Buddah

World Column So is the Sun Capitol

and so on,all available from the local record shop for 99p or thereabouts (well by special order) Given that they are 1st generation UK releases on reputable UK labels what are your thoughts on them?

I'd like to put a collection of these together any body got any other suggestions

At a guess I'd say the prices have gone up a tad!!!!

[Guest]

During the mid seventies a few UK companies released (legally) some of the big northern records

Linda Jones Just Cant live my life Warner

MVPs Turning My heartbeat up Buddah

World Column So is the Sun Capitol

and so on,all available from the local record shop for 99p or thereabouts (well by special order) Given that they are 1st generation UK releases on reputable UK labels what are your thoughts on them?

I'd like to put a collection of these together any body got any other suggestions

At a guess I'd say the prices have gone up a tad!!!!

I wouldnt have even posted this because people will go nuts because they will just say there not proper ones unless there US issues blah blah blah etc get ready for the sparks to fly .

[Patto]

Deffo not boots as they are legit company reissues,although as they were mostly released in the 70s to satisfy Northern Soul demand they are frowned upon by D J s.But if you want to collect em to play at home then most are great sound quality on top notch U.K vinyl.I have several and all the ones you mention and a few can fetch good prices and are quite sought after.I have a few spares for sale if you want to pm me for a pack deal

[Sjclement]

Thanks Patto, has anyone got a definitive list of what was issued, I left the scene around '76 and didn't pay much attention to what was being released but searches have turned up

Brenda Lee Jones Love of my life Uk ?

Sheila Anthony Living love Route

Any more I should know about?

[Denbo]

They are NOT Boots. They are legitimate UK label releases where taxes and royalties have all been paid. It's like a film that premiers in America because it was made in America, which then gets released over here in the UK and the rest of Europe. No difference.

Neither are they REISSUES, before anybody starts. The American film I just used as an example is NOT a reissue when it gets released outside of America.

[Sjclement]

They are NOT Boots. They are legitimate UK label releases where taxes and royalties have all been paid. It's like a film that premiers in America because it was made in America, which then gets released over here in the UK and the rest of Europe. No difference.

Neither are they REISSUES, before anybody starts. The American film I just used as an example is NOT a reissue when it gets released outside of America.

They are NOT Boots. They are legitimate UK label releases where taxes and royalties have all been paid. It's like a film that premiers in America because it was made in America, which then gets released over here in the UK and the rest of Europe. No difference.

Neither are they REISSUES, before anybody starts. The American film I just used as an example is NOT a reissue when it gets released outside of America.

Woah! I get a little bit frightened when people start using capitals I didn't mean to be controversial

These records take me back to a time when my only connection with Northern was the rare visits to Wigan, Selectadisc lists and the report pages in Blues &Soul. When if you wanted to hear a record that had good reviews you had to buy it or travel to hear a DJ that was spinning it!!!

[Guest]

They are NOT Boots. They are legitimate UK label releases where taxes and royalties have all been paid. It's like a film that premiers in America because it was made in America, which then gets released over here in the UK and the rest of Europe. No difference.

Neither are they REISSUES, before anybody starts. The American film I just used as an example is NOT a reissue when it gets released outside of America.

I like them, but they are specially released for the Northern Soul scene, almost like a custom pressing. Years after they were recorded and the artist has moved on.

A new soul record in the 60's was released for the general market, with a veiw to being in the charts and for the general public. This is the true release because the artist and band were still recording and the record released was there current material/product.

[Guest Paul]

...what are your thoughts on them?

Hello

The vast majority of UK soul singles in the 1970s were legitimate issues (first UK issues and reissues) and they played an important part in the development of the soul scene when most of us were teenagers.

Many were aimed directly at the soul scene but some were certainly aimed at a wider market and sold in respectable quantities.

Sometimes the only other option was to buy a rare US original (if available or affordable) or a US bootleg - neither of which would benefit artists, writers, record companies etc.

So enjoy building a collection of UK singles and don't let anyone tell you they aren't valid or whatever.

I really cherish those UK singles and some aren't so easy to find now.

Best regards,

Paul

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Really the 1970s issues of Northern in-demanders are no different to, say, Sue's 1960s issues of many 50s %&B things to cater for demand from mods and R&B collectors who then had limited-to-no access to the original US 45s.

The only difference is that nobody would ever dream of looking down their noses at those...

But 'Dust My Blues' by Elmore James - for example - was issued on a Sue 45 (and LP) in its time for exactly the same reasons that 'Just Can't Live My Life'. 'So Is The Sun' etc were in theirs. And the reasons for their release were just as valid, if perhaps a little less altruistic...)

Edited November 4, 2011 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest Dante]

Really the 1970s issues of Northern in-demanders are no different to, say, Sue's 1960s issues of many 50s %&B things to cater for demand from mods and R&B collectors who then had limited-to-no access to the original US 45s.

The only difference is that nobody would ever dream of looking down their noses at those...

But 'Dust My Blues' by Elmore James - for example - was issued on a Sue 45 (and LP) in its time for exactly the same reasons that 'Just Can't Live My Life'. 'So Is The Sun' etc were in theirs. And the reasons for their release were just as valid, if perhaps a little less altruistic...)

Oh my god! Did Mr. Rounce just misquoted the title of a song?

I thought I wouldn't live too see that!

[Ian Parker]

Patto, What ya sellin mate?

[grant]

Thanks Patto, has anyone got a definitive list of what was issued, I left the scene around '76 and didn't pay much attention to what was being released but searches have turned up

Brenda Lee Jones Love of my life Uk ?

Sheila Anthony Living love Route

Any more I should know about?

A few I can remember of the top of my head..

Harold Melvin - Get Out (Route)

Al De Lory - Right On (Capitol)

Teddy Vann Orch - Theme From the Coloured Man (Capitol)

Nancy Wilson - End Of Our Love

Then there was the RCA stuff, Dean Courtney, Paul Anka, Beverley Ann, etc

You should be able to pick these up relatively cheap

Happy hunting!

[Shinehead]

The 70s issues were staple diet for soul enthusiasts like myself and countless others when you are about 14 or 15 it was the music that counted not owning original us releases that came later it was only buying those releases that i became more aware of this great music that we adore to this day . I,ve still got loads of mine and would never part with them i still know where i bought most of mine the Jay Boy ones are very cherished .

[Pete S]

I did lists of all those 70's reissues, they may still be available in the Soul Source archives

p.s. Dante, Tony didn't make a mistake, it is Dust My Blues aka Dust My Broom

[Mike]

I did lists of all those 70's reissues, they may still be available in the Soul Source archives

p.s. Dante, Tony didn't make a mistake, it is Dust My Blues aka Dust My Broom

here you go

[Pete S]

here you go

Mike - 1997 - can you believe it? 14 going on 15 years ago.

[Spacehopper]

here we go again!! ;-)..no not boots and some would be 'original uk' as far as selling goes...i know this thread isnt about it but as far as ovo venues go then if there is a 60 us release,that is the one to be played....im not looking down my nose at these and just like those 70s look-a-like boots etc i know their important contribution to the uk soul scene but if its 60s music and theres a 60s release thats the one to play which is where i believe these differ from uk sue releases etc ...but hey thats just my opinion...which ive posted on a few threads now so must make mental note not to bother again!! ;-)

dean

[Mike]

Mike - 1997 - can you believe it? 14 going on 15 years ago.

I know

seems like just a few years ago

where did all that time go eh

[Bo Diddley]

Also, in addition to the things on Pete's list,

Earl Jackson - Soul Self Satisfaction - ABC

George Clinton - Please don't run - ABC (UK was the only 45 issue as original LP only?)

Creative Source - Don't be afraid (again, orig LP Only I think)

The "Right-On" issues - Jelly Beans, The Crow, etc..

The MCA things - Rubin, Lee Roye, Jean Carter

Adams Apples on Brunswick

Kev Bod

[Gene-R]

To prove their legitimacy, it's worth noting that a few even made the UK Top 50 singles chart. "Afternon of the Rhino" by Mike Post, "Get Out" by Harold Melvin, "Out On The Floor" by Dobie Gray and "The Snake" by Al Wilson are some good examples.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Gene-R

[Geeselad]

well you should answer the question yourself, how would you feel if you'd forked out around £150 for a nice us demo of linda jones or around the same for MVP's and someone played his perfectly legitimate UK issue as the last record in his set, just as you were pulling out your US copy ready to play? similar has happened to me on more than one occasion.

[KevH]

well you should answer the question yourself, how would you feel if you'd forked out around £150 for a nice us demo of linda jones or around the same for MVP's and someone played his perfectly legitimate UK issue as the last record in his set, just as you were pulling out your US copy ready to play? similar has happened to me on more than one occasion.

Dont understand what that has to do with the question.Seperate issue,if you pardon the pun.Surely if its a release thru a major legit label,it cant be a boot.

Ede Robin - love somewhere

Diane Jenkins - towaway zone.

Reggie Garner - Hot line.....

Royalettes - river of tears...

loads of em.Just got to sort your head out which one's your'e comfortable playing.

Edited November 4, 2011 by KevH

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

well you should answer the question yourself, how would you feel if you'd forked out around £150 for a nice us demo of linda jones or around the same for MVP's and someone played his perfectly legitimate UK issue as the last record in his set, just as you were pulling out your US copy ready to play? similar has happened to me on more than one occasion.

Wonder if people who own and play out Willie Mae Thornton's 'Tom Cat' on Sotoplay would feel disparaged if someone came on before them playing a Sue copy?... :wicked:

[Ernie Andrews]

really interesting question - simple answer is they are not boots.

The secondary question of whetehr you should play them becomes complicated unless you really know release dates

A rather unusual one is Magic Night - if you and I had never met. Although scheduled for release on Roulette it got issued on Pye first because of some wrangle in the US with the pressing of them so technically the UK was issued first.

The pye ones are really a minefield except where they were disco demand

Other pye ones released at around the same time as the US copies

Jobell Orch

Whirlwind

Gentlemen & ladies

DC larue

Im not sure about some of the Right on ones (pye dist) as well- eg Fantastic Puzzles

Generally speaking if it was released some years after the US release then it was specifically for the Northern Market and would be regarded as No NO playing out in a set!

60s reissues are also complicated IMO as they werent release for the Northern scene but more about promoting the artist again!

[Sjclement]

really interesting question - simple answer is they are not boots.

The secondary question of whetehr you should play them becomes complicated unless you really know release dates

A rather unusual one is Magic Night - if you and I had never met. Although scheduled for release on Roulette it got issued on Pye first because of some wrangle in the US with the pressing of them so technically the UK was issued first.

The pye ones are really a minefield except where they were disco demand

Other pye ones released at around the same time as the US copies

Jobell Orch

Whirlwind

Gentlemen & ladies

DC larue

Im not sure about some of the Right on ones (pye dist) as well- eg Fantastic Puzzles

Generally speaking if it was released some years after the US release then it was specifically for the Northern Market and would be regarded as No NO playing out in a set!

60s reissues are also complicated IMO as they werent release for the Northern scene but more about promoting the artist again!

really interesting question - simple answer is they are not boots.

The secondary question of whetehr you should play them becomes complicated unless you really know release dates

A rather unusual one is Magic Night - if you and I had never met. Although scheduled for release on Roulette it got issued on Pye first because of some wrangle in the US with the pressing of them so technically the UK was issued first.

The pye ones are really a minefield except where they were disco demand

Other pye ones released at around the same time as the US copies

Jobell Orch

Whirlwind

Gentlemen & ladies

DC larue

Im not sure about some of the Right on ones (pye dist) as well- eg Fantastic Puzzles

Generally speaking if it was released some years after the US release then it was specifically for the Northern Market and would be regarded as No NO playing out in a set!

60s reissues are also complicated IMO as they werent release for the Northern scene but more about promoting the artist again!

Not talking about playing them out Ernie, just putting together a box of Northern Delights with Solid Centres on vinyl in the same way that people may collect label runs.

Its quite an eye opener how many of the majors released tunes for the northern market

UA Eddie and Ernie

Brunswick Gene Chandler,Cooperettes, Adams Apples

Atlantic Tony & Tyrone, Drifters, Archie Bell

Now imagine if they were all .....demos!

there's a project

[Guest Dante]

I did lists of all those 70's reissues, they may still be available in the Soul Source archives

p.s. Dante, Tony didn't make a mistake, it is Dust My Blues aka Dust My Broom

Cool, I couldn't believe he did. The world is back on its feet now

[Reg Scott]

The OVO only 'issue' and the 'is this a legitamite issue' ie is it an official release and ok to play, whether UK, many examples above, or the legit releases from the US, like Dana Valery on 'Columbia Special Products' is a constant point of discussion.

It can't simply be an issue of price or rarity. A venue or DJ has to make a choice as to whether they play 'first issues', the only true OV, or any other 'legit' release.

For example, I believe Butch plays the Pandora release of Charlene & The Soul Serenaders 'Can You Win' rather than the Volt issue, tough in its own right, and there are many other examples of local versus national release ie first and second release. The base point should be an 'original', in other words a legitimate release, after that the choice is for the Venue, DJ, or punters in terms of what's important but boots are a BIG NO NO period..

Only my opinion of course.

[AlanB]

Royalettes - river of tears...

This was issued in the UK in 60s on Big T as a general soul release, so I think it's in different category from those issued in the 70s to meet Northern demand.

Alan

[Autumnstoned]

Anyone know the background on this? tailor made for UK northern soul market or did it get a US release? Either way sounds pretty good to these ears and I wouldn't mind a copy.

https://youtu.be/st9rz5mjvCI

[Patto]

really interesting question - simple answer is they are not boots.

The secondary question of whetehr you should play them becomes complicated unless you really know release dates

A rather unusual one is Magic Night - if you and I had never met. Although scheduled for release on Roulette it got issued on Pye first because of some wrangle in the US with the pressing of them so technically the UK was issued first.

The pye ones are really a minefield except where they were disco demand

Other pye ones released at around the same time as the US copies

Jobell Orch

Whirlwind

Gentlemen & ladies

DC larue

Im not sure about some of the Right on ones (pye dist) as well- eg Fantastic Puzzles

Generally speaking if it was released some years after the US release then it was specifically for the Northern Market and would be regarded as No NO playing out in a set!

60s reissues are also complicated IMO as they werent release for the Northern scene but more about promoting the artist again!

Agree with all of the above.However some of the 70s UK stuff were released around the same times as the US ones not years later and are first issue UK releases.Such records as Montclaires--Hung Up on Contempo,Flame N King--Ho Happy Day on Grapevine,and The Crow on Right on fall into this catagory.Also it cant be based on price and rareity as some 60s UK stuff are cheaper than U.S so what if you spin say a Vocalian Tommy Neal before another DJ wants to Spin it on Palmer.Both are Ok and at the end of the day its down to choice what you want to own.In the same vein i prefere to own my UK demo of Skullsnaps My Hang Up Is You even though i could of got a a U.S a lot cheaper.Having said this its plainly obvious that its a no no to play out the Inferno,Black Magic,Disco Demand,Cas Classics,etc etc etc

[AlanB]

However some of the 70s UK stuff were released around the same times as the US ones not years later and are first issue UK releases.Such records as Montclaires'-Hung Up on Contempo,Flame N King--Ho Happy Day on Grapevine,and The Crow on Right on fall into this catagory.

The Crow and Flame N King were rare/quite rare on US and were released in UK after Northern plays, so not really any different from Black Magic, Disco Demand, Linda Jones on WB, MVPs on Buddah, Frank Wilson etc in my opinion.

Montclairs - Hung Up came out when Contempo were releasing lots of stuff from Paula including other Montclairs' tracks, so I reckon that one's more a contemporary UK soul release, like Larry Saunders, The Brothers, and the Pye ones mentioned above.

Major Lance - Don't You Know made for the UK soul market in the wake of his Northern popularity, but not really tailor-made to be a NS record (the way that Ian Levine productions of the time were).

Alan

[KevH]

This was issued in the UK in 60s on Big T as a general soul release, so I think it's in different category from those issued in the 70s to meet Northern demand.

Alan

Agree Alan.

[Guest Paul]

Anyone know the background on this? tailor made for UK northern soul market or did it get a US release? Either way sounds pretty good to these ears and I wouldn't mind a copy.

Great track.

The original instrumental was credited to The Fabulous Echoes, recorded in Chicago and issued in the UK on Contempo C 2 in February 1973 - a year or more before the Major Lance version.

I assume Major Lance just addedd his vocal to their track but his version didn't credit the original producer Carl Davis or arranger Tom Washington.

By the way, I have a spare minto promo of The Fabulous Echoes single if anyone needs a copy - trade or whatever.

Paul

Edited November 6, 2011 by Paul

[Tony A]

Anyone know the background on this? tailor made for UK northern soul market or did it get a US release? Either way sounds pretty good to these ears and I wouldn't mind a copy.

I always play Jackie Wilsons version of this, Top tune.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Tony A

[Guest]

What's the 1976 Island reissue of Jackie Edward's 'I Feel So Bad' worth nowadays?

[Rotherham Soul]

What's the 1976 Island reissue of Jackie Edward's 'I Feel So Bad' worth nowadays?

according to Popsike anything between £30 - £50

Edited November 6, 2011 by rotherham soul

[Sjclement]

Anyone know the background on this? tailor made for UK northern soul market or did it get a US release? Either way sounds pretty good to these ears and I wouldn't mind a copy.

Check the credits Another Perry brothers masterpiece