Cecil Washington

[Douglas]

I'm sure 99% of people agree that The Group featuring Cecil Washington - I Don't Like To Lose - was first played by Richard Searling in the late 70s, well a couple of people on Facebook's 'I Went To Wigan Casino' group page say it was actually first played by Tony Jebb at The Torch,i was too young to attend The Torch so would appreciate any comments on this,i have been assured from two former Torch members that it was 100% first played by Richard Searling.

[Goldsoul]

It was indeed played by RS 79/80. Tony was busy with the likes of Duke Browner, Sam and Kitty and Nolan Chance some 7 years before.

[Douglas]

It was indeed played by RS 79/80. Tony was busy with the likes of Duke Browner, Sam and Kitty and Nolan Chance some 7 years before.

Thanks Kev, one of the guys said last week that he was sitting With Tony Jebb and he assured him that he had played it first at The Torch,my argument was well how come none of the former Torch members could reveal its real identity (the guy said Jebb had played it uncovered) when speculation was at fever pitch,i remember the speculation well,some people thought it may be a Kool Kat missing number etc,as i stated earlier i was too young for The Torch so thought i'd get views from people who were actually there.

[Steve G]

Yep agree with kev, got it's first playing by richard searling and it was at the casino. if it had been played at the torch we'd have heard about it long ago.

[Kegsy]

It was indeed played by RS 79/80. Tony was busy with the likes of Duke Browner, Sam and Kitty and Nolan Chance some 7 years before.

Sorry to disagree Kev but in 79/80 I had packed in Allnighters and I knew the record well before then.

I seem to remember that Pep played this at the

Catacombs well before anybody else.

kegsy

[Steve L]

I've been surprised once or twice about records being played well before I thought they had so I would never rule anything out.

However I'd need some serious proof that this was played before 79, rather than a couple of "so and so said it was' and some hazy recollections to believe this.

I was there when Searling started playing it and it blew the scene into orbit, surely someone around at that time would have been aware if it was previously known?

[Soulman]

I'll definitely go with the '79 period. It was played as Joe Matthews for a good couple of years until Kev Draper turned up with the second copy and uncovered it at the Fleet all-nighters in '81. There was a real buzz that night when we all realised we were finally going to find out the identity of a record that had reached monstrous proportions courtesy of Richard S.

Steve

[Steve G]

Sorry to disagree Kev but in 79/80 I had packed in Allnighters and I knew the record well before then.

I seem to remember that Pep played this at the

Catacombs well before anybody else.

kegsy

Actually I am "reliably informed" it was played at the Twisted Wheel first as a new release

Soulman - bang on the money and I also heard RS none too pleased when Kev turned up his copy. It was a big talking point in all the fanzines etc.

[Douglas]

Kev Draper has since explained he had paid £150 for it so wasn't prepared to ruin the label by sticking paper over it.

[Guest allnightandy]

The Reverend Cecil T Washington says he is hoping to get over here this summer so if you have a copy

you might just be able to get it signed !

[MrsWoodsrules]

Deffo first spun by RS as Joe Mathews, usually opened his set with it more often than not, possibly biggest tune in my years, although Country Girl & Hey Little Way Out Girl would run it close for filling the floor.

A guy turned up at Parr Hall Warrington with 5 mint copies to flog mid eighties.

Aid.

[Steve G]

Yeah so many of us remember this well and how we all wanted to know what it was. The missing Kool Kat number etc.(I think that was mentioned in Chris Savoury's magazine). It was Richard's biggest sound for a fair while.

[Arthur Fenn]

Actually Kev had the 3rd copy which came fom of course John Anderson & yes he was a wanted man for uncovering it

[Steve G]

AH so did you get the second copy then you dark horse Arthur?

[Guest giant]

i attended the Catacombs from time to time when IAN PEP was djing and don't remember hearing Ceil t. Washington played there ' but can clearly remember RS playing it at the Casino around 78 or 79.

[Soulman]

Beat me to it Steve. Pray tell Sir Arthur of the Fenn

Steve H

[Arthur Fenn]

Hi Steve, Richard sold the spare he got off John to me at 1 of the Todmorden dayers for what was at the time the huge sum of £250, Kev got his about 6months later and of course played it uncovered, bit of a shocker i can tell you to make it worse John told me off for paying so much for it

[Soulman]

Hi Steve, Richard sold the spare he got off John to me at 1 of the Todmorden dayers for what was at the time the huge sum of £250, Kev got his about 6months later and of course played it uncovered, bit of a shocker i can tell you to make it worse John told me off for paying so much for it

How much?????? Jeez Arthur, you must have had money to burn back in those days. I got my first copy from Ian Clark which I then sold to Andy Rix after walking into John Manships shop in Melton one day and seeing a mint Cecil sat on the shelf for £60 and along side that was a Vickie Baines "Counmtry Girl" Issue for £50. Boy was I a happy bunny that day.

Steve H

[Guest wigan bob]

dave holt bought one of you at bretby arthur

[Arthur Fenn]

We've all had records cheap at some point tho & i had a fair amount of play before all the others turned up, always been a question of timing i guess. Not much different nowadays really, i still need a fix of new stuf

[Arthur Fenn]

I dont recall that as i'd sold the 1 i had off Richard in 80/81, long time ago i suppose

[Steve G]

How much?????? Jeez Arthur, you must have had money to burn back in those days. I got my first copy from Ian Clark which I then sold to Andy Rix after walking into John Manships shop in Melton one day and seeing a mint Cecil sat on the shelf for £60 and along side that was a Vickie Baines "Counmtry Girl" Issue for £50. Boy was I a happy bunny that day.

Steve H

I wonder how many CWs there are over here now. A Hundred or more?

[Chalky]

There was rumour of a garage/lock up full of them which no one could get into, probably one of the scenes urban myths. I was also told a story by someone back in the 80's or early 90's that they saw paperwork showing the numbers sold/pressed or other such info and it went into 5 figures. Again might be one of those urban myths. If Cecil is reading this maybe he can shed some light on how it sold or how many pressed.

[Soulman]

I wonder how many CWs there are over here now. A Hundred or more?

If I had to make a semi-educated guess I would reckon no less than 50 and not many more than a 100 but who knows

Steve

[Louise]

If I had to make a semi-educated guess I would reckon no less than 50 and not many more than a 100 but who knows

Steve

Hands up who's got one then!!

[Guest Mr Ms DJ]

i remember gary rushbrooke playing cecil washington at wigan 1979 along with richard so kev drapers must have been the 4th copy and yes wigan bob was right with his comment dave did buy a copy off arthur for £60 he still has it

[Harry Crosby]

I dont recall that as i'd sold the 1 i had off Richard in 80/81, long time ago i suppose

Thought you sold yours to Paul collinson [colly] from selby, which i bought off him for the princelly sum of £110, 80/81

[Guest allnightandy]

Hands up who's got one then!!

Cecil T Washington still has one

Edited December 29, 2011 by allnightandy

[Agentsmith]

i attended the Catacombs from time to time when IAN PEP was djing and don't remember hearing Ceil t. Washington played there ' but can clearly remember RS playing it at the Casino around 78 or 79.

having attended the catacombs myself, i feel fairly confident in also stating that, without exemption, saturday nights were about featuring untried, untested and relatively unheard material...its not within the realms of impossibility that pep may have aqquired a copy of this record, as in 74, i remember he along with john tryce was making a concerted effort to collect all things detroit. infact, when blue max initially retired and sold his collection, on numerous occasions i witnessed this pair going through his sales pulling out a lot of detroit stuff. as for the suggestion that he had played it at the catacombs....extremely doubtful, bearing in mind attendances would have been significantly sparce ( and how many cats rats alive today can claim to have heard it? ) in light of competition from blackpool mecca and the knell of doom called wigan casino...the club in temple street, shutting its doors, 13th july 1974....and also any attention payed to this tune between then and 1978 is non-existant, prior to richard's exposure at the casino. im sorry but i wholeheartedly disagree with misinformation.....the history books tell this was one of richard's finest hours, albeit the formers gratitude to one john anderson for provision, nevertheless it was probably the catalyst for the return of quality music to the playlist in the 3 years that proved to be the casino's last hurrah.

[Louise]

Cecil T Washington still has one

That's a good start

[Guest allnightandy]

That's a good start

[Chalky]

https://cjonline.com/...5/440373072.jpg

Unless he had two he sold that one on ebay.....

[Guest allnightandy]

Unless he had two he sold that one on ebay.....

He still has at least one as he is hoping to put a digitally remastered version on the net for upload in 2012 !

[Louise]

https://cjonline.com/...5/440373072.jpg

Thanks for that mate, just taking the p*ss a bit, I thought the whole Cecil Washington thing had been done to death previously.

There has been loads of records prior to their finest moment that previously didn't catch their audiences imagination the first time of playing. But in the case of "I Don't Like To Lose" I think someone would have noticed it don't you.

Dave

[Guest dripdrop]

Ray has one he bought it at wigan paid ? for it.

[Steve G]

Thanks for that mate, just taking the p*ss a bit, I thought the whole Cecil Washington thing had been done to death previously.

There has been loads of records prior to their finest moment that previously didn't catch their audiences imagination the first time of playing. But in the case of "I Don't Like To Lose" I think someone would have noticed it don't you.

Dave

Me too Dave, of course I know it wasn't really played out before Wigan : Just having a wind up about the Twisted Wheel thing.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Steve G

[MrsWoodsrules]

Anyone ever seen a demo?

Must fetch a tidy sum, popsike only got issues.

Aid.

[Soulman]

Anyone ever seen a demo?

Must fetch a tidy sum, popsike only got issues.

Aid.

There were no demo's that's for sure. I still have my copy. Believe there is one with a certain Carlisle collector. Think Andy R still has his. There's a few about but even if it amounts to hundred it makes it a rare record and then maybe worth something like the value it fetched on Mr Manships auction.... unlike, as an example, Jimmy Mack "My World Is On Fire" which was a local R&B hit which would have sold in quantity but throughout the early days of it's recognition on the scene commanded a £100 price tag and has since gone on to fetch ridiculous figures equalling Cecil Washington. I guess that really is the strange world of Northern Soul

Steve

[Soulman]

....and, I'm sure this was never played before Wigan. I looked up to the collectors of the time and none had heard it. I don't recall anyone yet saying the same of the best Sixties discovery of the last ten years as far as I'm concerned which is Margaret Littles. Unless someone can prove different.

[Linky]

Ray still has his. He bought it at Wigan in 80/81 for about £120 when there was less than half-a-dozen. He beat me to it by 10 minutes and £5

[Monkey]

Ray has one he bought it at wigan paid ? for it.

think it was around £120 as far as I remember, despite all the other takes on this story Ray's copy or the one he bought was one of the first to surface for sale, it caused a real buzz in the record bar, Richard still had it covered as Joe Matthews, the seller had it uncovered as Cecil Washington. I can see an exited Pete Lawson now ... telling everyone who the Joe Matthews c/u was. £120 was a lot of money in 79/80 RS had a few months earlier sold Don Gardner cheating kind for a reported £50.

Edited December 29, 2011 by monkey

[Linky]

think it was around £120 as far as I remember, despite all the other takes on this story Ray's copy or the one he bought was one of the first to surface for sale, it caused a real buzz in the record bar, Richard still had it covered as Joe Matthews, the seller had it uncovered as Cecil Washington. I can see an exited Pete Lawson now ... telling everyone who the Joe Matthews c/u was. £120 was a lot of money in 79/80 RS had a few months earlier sold Don Gardner cheating kind for a reported £50.

I had to travel back in the Wakefield Tree Surgeons van with Ray that morning - I was gutted to say the least.

[Monkey]

I had to travel back in the Wakefield Tree Surgeons van with Ray that morning - I was gutted to say the least.

I too was in Ray's van that morning Linky! hazily remember on the way to Wigan one night you divulging Richard's I need my baby c/u was in fact on ... shock horror Revilot

Edited December 30, 2011 by monkey

[Guest allnightandy]

Edited December 29, 2011 by allnightandy

[Steve G]

think it was around £120 as far as I remember, despite all the other takes on this story Ray's copy or the one he bought was one of the first to surface for sale, it caused a real buzz in the record bar, Richard still had it covered as Joe Matthews, the seller had it uncovered as Cecil Washington. I can see an exited Pete Lawson now ... telling everyone who the Joe Matthews c/u was. £120 was a lot of money in 79/80 RS had a few months earlier sold Don Gardner cheating kind for a reported £50.

Richard had got Don Gardner off of Soul Sam I believe in a straight swap for Larry Houston "Lets spend some time together" which of course was RS's Top Cat cover up. Heady days those late 70s when you think about it!

[Guest Brian Ellis]

Richard had got Don Gardner off of Soul Sam I believe in a straight swap for Larry Houston "Lets spend some time together" which of course was RS's Top Cat cover up. Heady days those late 70s when you think about it!

Not often Sam comes off worst in a deal Steve! OUCH

Edited December 29, 2011 by Brian Ellis

[Prophonics 2029]

Anyone ever seen a demo?

Must fetch a tidy sum, popsike only got issues.

Aid.

Prophonics and Coconuts only have a Promo stamp mark on them no special presses involved.

[Pauldonnelly]

SLIGHT thread drift however Keith Minshull is adamant that The Tomangoes was played at the Torch, ask Mr J Bentley Esq.

[Premium Stuff]

Prophonics and Coconuts only have a Promo stamp mark on them no special presses involved.

Still a promo mate

Richard

Edited December 30, 2011 by Premium Stuff

[Guest brissoul]

theres at least 3 copies in Oz