Was it only the demo that was booted? do the issues have sterling stamped in the dead wax?

The White DEMO on Vinyl has the "STERLING" STAMP. on the Original.

It was Booted as you are aware.

The only Stock Copy that I have seen is on STYRENE and doesn't have the Stamp

Does anyone know for sure when the issue of "It Really Hurts Me Girl" was pressed? I've read that it only came out as a demo, then Red Coach's distribution deal with Chess came to an end, the release was scrapped and it was only later that issues were pressed up to satisfy UK demand.

Does anyone know what actually happened? Red Coach obviously changed distribution deal from Chess to Red-Lite after the Carstairs demo was pressed, but the new Red-Lite distribution info doesn't appear on the cat# directly after the Carstairs 45, but it does appear on #804. Check it out:

Does anyone know for sure when the issue of "It Really Hurts Me Girl" was pressed? I've read that it only came out as a demo, then Red Coach's distribution deal with Chess came to an end, the release was scrapped and it was only later that issues were pressed up to satisfy UK demand.

That's always been my understanding, think you're right.

I have no actual evidence as to what happened with Carstairs but here's the story I know.

Ian Levine had heard this record being played on a radio station when on

a trip to New York.

Somehow he managed to obtain a copy of the demo, which

he brought back and played at the Mecca, it was an instant

floorfiller and a massive sound. Everybody knew at the time it was

a new or very recent release.

Not much later, I would say within a couple of weeks, the pink "issue" copies

were readily available at places like Record Corner and Global in Manchester.

These shops specialised in selling new releases from the states, along with

the usual racks of cut outs.

I would say that the record was rush "released" due to demand from the UK by

shops like Record Corner and Global.

There is also another slight twist.

Later releases on Red Coach Shalong,Richmond International turned up in their

hundreds on the Bostocks stall in Bradford Market who were buying container loads

of records from the U.S.A.

However I dont think any pink Castairs copies were ever found on the market.

This would strengthen the theory that the pink issue was pressed for the UK

and most, if not all the copies, came directly to the UK

and any overstocks never made it to the warehouses in the normal way.

It would be interesting to know how many copies have been bought by

people on here, directly from U.S.A. rather from sources in the UK.

Kegsy

This would strengthen the theory that the pink issue was pressed for the UK

and most, if not all the copies, came directly to the UK

and any overstocks never made it to the warehouses in the normal way.

It would be interesting to know how many copies have been bought by

people on here, directly from U.S.A. rather from sources in the UK.

Kegsy

It ofcourse doesn't "prove" anything else than the fact that many copies of this 45 exist in the UK, but out of the 73 pink issues that can be found of this title on Popsike, only 6 were sold from the US. The rest came from UK sellers.

bought mine for £1-25 from soul bowl - as an original

soul bowl never sold boots i thought

have picked up white demo with stirling scratched in run out is that a boot its vinyl

Does anybody know where the instrumental version originates from.Was it an album cut?

Does anybody know where the instrumental version originates from.Was it an album cut?

Not much later, I would say within a couple of weeks, the pink "issue" copies

were readily available at places like Record Corner and Global in Manchester.

Kegsy

Actually it was a lot later Kegsy. I had the 2nd known copy and got a good 9 months play out of it before the pink represses came in.

Ian D

Actually it was a lot later Kegsy. I had the 2nd known copy and got a good 9 months play out of it before the pink represses came in.

Ian D

I thought there was a slight time discrepancy in there....

Actually it was a lot later Kegsy. I had the 2nd known copy and got a good 9 months play out of it before the pink represses came in.

Ian D

I may be wrong on "a couple of weeks" but 9 months I would dispute that,

Maybe its just that, for some strange reason, time, especially weekends,

seemed to pass a lot quicker in those days.

Kegsy

I thought the original WD was found at John Andersons after Ian Levine returned from hearing it on his trip. I thought all the issues were dodgy in some way....cant remember what it was now ?.

Wasnt the instrumental released on Inferno ?.

Russ

Inferno released 2 Tom Moulton remixes on a 45.............was there a 12 ?

Cheers Paul

have picked up white demo with stirling scratched in run out is that a boot its vinyl

The original demo has the Sterling machine stamped on one side. The white demo boot was also vinyl, but no stamp. Anyone could scratch it on with a fine point!

The only true original is the Chess distributed, Sterling stamped white demo. Think it was GRT who owned Chess at the time went bust, so no issue came out.

The pink issue was a later special pressing for Northern Soul scene demand.

soul bowl never sold boots i thought

I don't know about anything else, but soul bowl did legally reissue all those Harthon titles in the 70s (with the plain label instead of the regular design).

I have to ruin every thread about the carstairs by saying that the ballad side is KILLER. So good.

I thought the original WD was found at John Andersons after Ian Levine returned from hearing it on his trip. I thought all the issues were dodgy in some way....cant remember what it was now ?.

Wasnt the instrumental released on Inferno ?.

Russ

Not sure where I heard this However,

I thought the original WD was found at John Andersons after Ian Levine returned from hearing it on his trip.

That's the Story I heard back in the 70s.

Once it had been Played at Venues I looked around to Obtain a copy.

Coincidence perhaps but I then bought my copies of the White DEMO from Soul Bowl too.

Colin Dimond (Curtis) told me a few years ago, that he and Ian Levine found it in Soul Bowl. Ian did hear it the USA but could'nt find it. They went to Kings Lynnn and they found it there ( i think Colin said were 3 or 4 there)

So the instrumental is on the b side of an inferno 45?

Hi All

As far as I am aware, we all no how Ian discovered the record, thank GOD he did, as far as I am concerned, this classic of classics, would have never seen the light. except the light of the flames, when the TK warehouse burnt down? and we no that at the time again by fluke John Anderson had a copy, and only 3 demos turned up.

The record although not Northern Soul as in 100mph stomper, soon become everybody's fave, The next bit is vague, but the news of the record success was soon given to Gene Redd, and within weeks of it's 1st plat at the MECCA, Blues & Soul had an advert advertising that the record was available for sale, I will dig it out if needed, my assumption was that all the copies were 1st issues of the record, pressed up just to cash in on the MECCA spin. now we no that the DEMO was as said, and we no that the issues were pressed by or on the say so of Gene Redd, because of the demand, also that explains the use of the Label. Also John Anderson had a copy. and he had contacts, but so did Global. and also John Abbey at Blues & Soul, the answer is there someplace, as it was the only advert of it's type in B&S. Did it have connections with Contempo? who knows, the answer is who put the advert in B&S, and finally the amount of Copies that exist, in my opinion must differ from the initial release, so we now know a few more DEMOs have turned up, but most are bootlegs, and I reckon there are hundreds of Fake Issues or Counterfeit 2nd issue, Did Neil Rushton put it out once, if so he will no if it come from a master tape, if so it could well of had the instrumental on it. or been a 4 track tape and dub of the vocal, just a thought, And I am not suggesting Neil did the dead? so it makes the original DEMO Very Rare DAVE 69

I may be wrong on "a couple of weeks" but 9 months I would dispute that,

Maybe its just that, for some strange reason, time, especially weekends,

seemed to pass a lot quicker in those days.

Kegsy

LOL, I wonder why that was?

Ian D

So should a demo be stored in the Chess sleeve or just a white paper cover?

Edited February 17, 201213 yr by Prophonics 2029

Hi All

The record although not Northern Soul as in 100mph stomper, soon become everybody's fave, The next bit is vague, but the news of the record success was soon given to Gene Redd, and within weeks of it's 1st plat at the MECCA, Blues & Soul had an advert advertising that the record was available for sale,

Thanks for that Dave I was pretty sure it was not too long

before the pink issues started turning up (Record Corner/Global etc).

What with this thread and the Cecil Washington one I was beginning to doubt my own insanity.

Kegsy

Thanks for that Dave I was pretty sure it was not too long before the pink issues started turning up (Record Corner/Global etc).

What with this thread and the Cecil Washington one I was beginning to doubt my own insanity.

Kegsy

It was at least a year and more likely 18 months Kegsy and DH! I was after the record for a good few months after Levine started spinning it and then finally got the second copy off Dave Burton @ the Heavy Steam Machine in Hanley as he was on his way back to London. Like I said, I had a good year with it at least. I should know as having that record was where most of my bookings were coming from and it was by far the most requested record of 1974 or thereabouts. If the pink copies had come in so fast then the record would have died a death quickly. I think it was around 2 years from Levine first playing it to when the pink copies arrived.

Just to get it straight though, maybe DH can find the ad 'cos it'll have a date on it.

Cheers,

Ian D

Colin Dimond (Curtis) told me a few years ago, that he and Ian Levine found it in Soul Bowl. Ian did hear it the USA but could'nt find it. They went to Kings Lynnn and they found it there ( i think Colin said were 3 or 4 there)

Nope, there was only the one copy which Levine had. It was the most sought-after record on the scene at the time believe me.

Ian D

It was at least a year and more likely 18 months Kegsy and DH! I was after the record for a good few months after Levine started spinning it and then finally got the second copy off Dave Burton @ the Heavy Steam Machine in Hanley as he was on his way back to London. Like I said, I had a good year with it at least. I should know as having that record was where most of my bookings were coming from and it was by far the most requested record of 1974 or thereabouts. If the pink copies had come in so fast then the record would have died a death quickly. I think it was around 2 years from Levine first playing it to when the pink copies arrived.

Just to get it straight though, maybe DH can find the ad 'cos it'll have a date on it.

Cheers,

Ian D

I can confirm that because I got 2 WD.copies and when I put them on my list I got bombarded with about 30 cheques for them it broke my heart returning the cash..

I think the price was 8.00p.or 9.00p.and it was still big long after that list.

Regards

Brian

This is what Levine told me when I interviewed him at great length for Too Darn Soulful (Story of Northern Soul) in 1999.

He said he heard the Carstairs on a Miami radio station while on holiday in the States. He was so moved he contacted the radio station, who told him - and I quote - "the single had been released as a promotional copy only, but never released".

Ian decided he had to have it. He came home empty-handed but kept trying back in the UK.

"It was Soul Bowl's much-respected boss John Anderson who found him a copy and shipped it to him, thinking Levine had finally gone off his rocker........."

That's what I wrote anyway!

Edited February 17, 201213 yr by dave nowell

This is what Levine told me when I interviewed him at great length for Too Darn Soulful (Story of Northern Soul) in 1999.

He said he heard the Carstairs on a Miami radio station while on holiday in the States. He was so moved he contacted the radio station, who told him - and I quote - "the single had been released as a promotional copy only, but never released".

Ian decided he had to have it. He came home empty-handed and but kept trying back in the UK.

"It was Soul Bowl's much-respected boss John Anderson who found him a copy and shipped it to him, thinking Levine had finally gone off his rocker........."

That's what I wrote anyway!

That sounds 100% correct. I knew he'd heard it in Miami but I didn't know where he sourced his copy..........

Ian D

I can confirm that because I got 2 WD.copies and when I put them on my list I got bombarded with about 30 cheques for them it broke my heart returning the cash..

I think the price was 8.00p.or 9.00p.and it was still big long after that list.

Regards

Brian

Good. At least this will confirm that Kegsy is actually insane if nowt else........

Ian D

It was at least a year and more likely 18 months Kegsy and DH! I was after the record for a good few months after Levine started spinning it and then finally got the second copy off Dave Burton @ the Heavy Steam Machine in Hanley as he was on his way back to London. Like I said, I had a good year with it at least. I should know as having that record was where most of my bookings were coming from and it was by far the most requested record of 1974 or thereabouts. If the pink copies had come in so fast then the record would have died a death quickly. I think it was around 2 years from Levine first playing it to when the pink copies arrived.

Just to get it straight though, maybe DH can find the ad 'cos it'll have a date on it.

Cheers,

Ian D

Ok Frank/Ian lets get this straight then.

Ian Levine heard the record played on a U.S. radio station, presumeably this

was in 1973 when the record was sent out as promo copies.Has to be 1973 why would anybody

be playing a promo of a record that was released yonks before.

Sometime later Ian gets a copy and plays it at the Mecca, the general consensus being that he

got it from Soul Bowl.I actually do remember the night he first played it.

The record then becomes THE biggest record on the scene and demand for it

is massive, as demonstrated by Brian Phillips post.

As you well know big records back then, became available very quickly, small 45 Okehs, and other types

of pressings, many legitimate 2nd issues from the states etc, even though they were many years old.

These were all readily available from Selectadisc,Global etc who probably instigated the re-pressing

by contacting the U.S. Labels/distributors.

Keith Williams has already said he got a pink one from Soul Bowl, in all honestly

that could have been where I got mine too.

Are you seriously suggesting that Soul Bowl/Selectadisc/Global waited 2 years before trying

to get copies of such a massive record that was obviously a brand new release ?.

I dont think so.

Finally there were dozens of U.S. new release records being played at the Mecca which lasted for

ages so why would Carstairs pinks copies stop it from being played out, as I said before we all knew

it was a recent release.

Kegsy

Edited February 17, 201213 yr by Kegsy

Ok Frank/Ian lets get this straight then.

Ian Levine heard the record played on a U.S. radio station, presumeably this

was in 1973 when the record was sent out as promo copies.Has to be 1973 why would anybody

be playing a promo of a record that was released yonks before.

Sometime later Ian gets a copy and plays it at the Mecca, the general consensus being that he

got it from Soul Bowl.I actually do remember the night he first played it.

The record then becomes THE biggest record on the scene and demand for it

is massive, as demonstrated by Brian Phillips post.

As you well know big records back then, became available very quickly, small 45 Okehs, and other types

of pressings, many legitimate 2nd issues from the states etc, even though they were many years old.

These were all readily available from Selectadisc,Global etc who probably instigated the re-pressing

by contacting the U.S. Labels/distributors.

Keith Williams has already said he got a pink one from Soul Bowl, in all honestly

that could have been where I got mine too.

Are you seriously suggesting that Soul Bowl/Selectadisc/Global waited 2 years before trying

to get copies of such a massive record that was obviously a brand new release ?.

I dont think so.

Finally there were dozens of U.S. new release records being played at the Mecca which lasted for

ages so why would Carstairs pinks copies stop it from being played out, as I said before we all knew

it was a recent release.

Kegsy

Yeah but this was my all-time greatest 'must-have' record so I was pretty close to it. We know it originally only got issued on the demo right, so this wasn't exactly a standard run-of-the-mill new release. It took Levine a while to track down the first copy which we know and it took me a further few months to track down the second copy, both demos. During this time Red Coach switched distribution from Chess over to Red-Lite which is why the Carstairs never made it to issue when it originally came out.

Let's then assume that the minimum press at the time would need to be circa 2K just to make it worthwhile exporting. So if there were initially only the two copies for a long time it would've taken a good year to break big enough to warrant importing 2K of 'em. Don't forget that Universal Mind "Something Fishy Going On" pink copies came over BEFORE The Carstairs re-presses and Universal Mind was 1974.

I think I got my Carstairs in early-mid 1974 and I'm pretty sure the pink reissue wasn't until late '75. Don't forget that virtually every gig I did throughout late '74 and most of '75 I had a queue of people waiting to look at the record or hold it etc. I don't think they'd have been that enthusiastic if they'd had a copy at home.

We need someone with a bunch of old Blues & Soul's to see what date the ads for the reissue started popping up.

Ian D

Levine

I was in Miami and I heard a record on a radio station by the Carstairs. They'd had a big record on Okeh, called He Who Picks The Rose. They had this new record, It Really Hurts Me Girl, and it blew my mind because it had this very throaty northern soul vocal, and a northern soul feel but a slightly shuffly beat. Not as modern as the Philly disco stuff, but just a bit modern, a bit dangerous for the northern soul scene. Anyway, I tried to buy this record, but couldn't find it. No one had heard of it. I went to the radio station and they said they'd been sent a demo from the record company. Here's the number. I phoned the record company, Red Coach, Gene Redd's label, distributed by Chess, they'd lost their distributor and the record had not been released. It was shelved. I bugged the radio station; said I'd give them anything they wanted. They refused because they liked it as well. So I was fucked.

Back in England I found this dealer called John Anderson who'd moved from Scotland to Kings Lynn. I told him I wanted this Carstairs record and he'd just had a shipment in from America of 100,000 demo records from radio stations. We went through this collection, me, Andy Hanley, and Bernie Golding, and we found three copies of the Carstairs record. Went back to Blackpool, played the record and changed the whole scene. Blackpool Mecca suddenly became the home of this new northern soul sound. I would've heard this record in 1973, when it was supposedly released, but not obtained it until 1974.

https://www.djhistory.com/interviews/ian-levine

Very interesting and clarification from back in the day.Some years later when i worked with Browny and Martin Koppel at Anglo American circa 95 ,i'd managed to get the enormous amount of 45's in some sort of order- then Martin called up to let us know one of the containers would be arriving (took five of us all day to unload , while Browny sat on his arse in the office ! ) to cut a long story short in the load was what turned out to be one of the last good fill lots of 45's from Simon Soussan ,included were a hundred count of the Carstairs on w/d sterling stamped copies in the original Redd Coach printed box (which i've got somewhere ) empty obviously ,along with around ten other very good titles in similar quantity ie Buddy Conner "when you're alone",Little john "heartbreakin time ",one of the Gambrells 45's .I remember selling at least 4 or 5 copies every weekend when out and about at the time for around £50 -£60 a time if i remember correctly i can't remember the Carstairs coming along in sustancial quantities since then or did any before that on the sterling ones of course ?

Very interesting and clarification from back in the day.Some years later when i worked with Browny and Martin Koppel at Anglo American circa 95 ,i'd managed to get the enormous amount of 45's in some sort of order- then Martin called up to let us know one of the containers would be arriving (took five of us all day to unload , while Browny sat on his arse in the office ! ) to cut a long story short in the load was what turned out to be one of the last good fill lots of 45's from Simon Soussan ,included were a hundred count of the Carstairs on w/d sterling stamped copies in the original Redd Coach printed box (which i've got somewhere ) empty obviously ,along with around ten other very good titles in similar quantity ie Buddy Conner "when you're alone",Little john "heartbreakin time ",one of the Gambrells 45's .I remember selling at least 4 or 5 copies every weekend when out and about at the time for around £50 -£60 a time if i remember correctly i can't remember the Carstairs coming along in sustancial quantities since then or did any before that on the sterling ones of course ?

i remember that andy..the gambrells 45 was jive talk..i had a copy of every title from you at the time....happy days

dave

I too had one of the proper white promo's... Tim said that he'd got some copies in amongst a load of the pink issues.... He said whoever had sent him them didn't mention there were demo's in the lot ...... As Andy mentioned earlier I think it was £50 I paid for it...... I was well happy with it anyway.....

Since that, a good friend of mine was sold a bootleg w/d as an original from another dealer and the main difference I could see was that the black text on the boot was just nowhere near as sharp as the proper one( it was slightly blurred around the edges)..... Also, the boot had a slight sheen to both the paper label and printing and the original has a totally matt finish to both....

Still a great 45, one of the best....!

Didn't Bob Cattaneo supply the pink issues after sourcing who owned the master?

 

My Inferno 7"/12" deal was done with De-Lite Records. They had deal with Gene Redd and volunteered the info that they were sitting on a Tom Moulton remix and did I want it for UK release?

 

Neil

bought mine for £1-25 from soul bowl - as an original

soul bowl never sold boots i thought

have picked up white demo with stirling scratched in run out is that a boot its vinyl

Now here's a thing from Tim Brown 2022 comment on Discogs

Manship was totally wrong..the scratched Sterling matrix is NOT a boot ,we had copies that came direct from the label (in a roundabout way) and half of them were scratched matrix and half were stamped. There IS a bootleg promo but not those with scratched matrix.

LIFTED FROM AN OLD POST ON HERE ... ... LEVINE >> I was in Miami and I heard a record on a radio station by the Carstairs .... a new record, It Really Hurts Me Girl, and it blew my mind .... Not as modern as the Philly disco stuff, but just a bit modern, a bit dangerous for the northern soul scene. Anyway, I tried to buy this record, but couldn't find it. No one had heard of it. I went to the radio station ... I bugged the radio station; said I'd give them anything they wanted. They refused because they liked it as well. So I was f*cked. . . . Back in England I found this dealer called John Anderson who'd moved from Scotland to Kings Lynn. I told him I wanted this Carstairs record and he'd just had a shipment in from America of 100,000 demo records from radio stations. We went through this collection, me, Andy Hanley, and Bernie Golding, and we found three copies of the Carstairs record. Went back to Blackpool, played the record and changed the whole scene. Blackpool Mecca suddenly became the home of this new northern soul sound.

-------------------------------------

So the actions of a DJ and a UK record dealer led to a change in the scene that moved it on to new levels ... I guess his had an earlier equivalent when DJ's / punters expanded their horizons around 1967 / 68 by not just chasing import 45's that had first gained a UK release but went after singles on labels (known or obscure) that featured totally unknown tracks or artists. I remember I morphed from just chasing US copies of known UK released cuts to bidding on 'unknown stuff' that was listed on the mailed out soul 45 auction lists back then. Who was the 1st UK punter to begin this type of chase is now most probably lost to us (I won't have been anywhere near the first). I'd love to find out more on this topic though.

There's an interesting video up on YOUTUBE where Sheffield's Mike Ward is interviewed & he relates how he used to get shipments of soul 45's from various US sources that meant he had lots of unknown stuff coming to him around 1967 (or sometime close to that).

Edited yesterday at 18:261 day by Roburt

There is an interview with John Anderson on YouTube where he mentions the Carstairs story

Two Carstairs related posts moved in from the current 'anorak' topic

While here I started up a tag section for the Carstairs which should in theory make finding info easier

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/tags/carstairs/