I Wish Bootleggers Would F*ck Off

[Pk 22dj]

I have been meaning to post this for a while as it's really getting me down, as a 50 yr old Northern Soul fanatic who has been collecting records for over 35 year I think this must be said.

At 15 years old and having very little money, I too collected bootleg records from wigan to play at the youth clubs etc, these records stuck out a mile that they were boots and to be honest nobody bothered as we all had f*ck all and as long as we could hear the top tunes during the week before heading back to Wigan at the weekend to see and hear the originals. At the time we also had Grapevine and Destiny records which too were repected, excepted and collectible.

As the years have gone by more money found its way into my pockets and originals were the order of the day, and lucky for me still quite easy to get hold of, now my collection is very large and filled with expensive top tunes which I get great pleasure of playing from time to time at soul nights in the North West.

Here's my problem, whoever is consistently reproducing the latest crop of top tunes on almost exactly the same label please f*ck *ff doing so, put them out on your own label if you want. Nothing worse than getting your records ready to do your spot when you see the DJ putting on a £10 boot which cost you £100's on the exact same label and now you cant get the pleasure of playing it.

You know who you are so get on with designing your own label before the TAX MAN has you.

I'm sure I'm not on my own with these thoughts. Together we can put a stop to this and keep Northern Soul the most wanted and expensive music ever.

Edited July 3, 2012 by chalky

[Guest Andy Kempster]

you say together we will stop this and i will tell you right now....you wont

the reason these releases keep coming out is purely down to one very simple rule of business .... supply and demand

i went to a do a month or so ago to attend the rare room and support some mates in their endeavour, the rare room was almost empty, the main room was rammed to the rafters, i popped into the main room with my sales box to be confronted by a table about 20 foot long selling reissue after resissue, i didnt realise at first and started to have a look, i quickly picked up on this point as you can imagine and asked the guy selling if he had any originals to sell.. his response, why would i when i can sell these all night long. to be fair he had pretty good foot flow and seemed to be doing pretty well out of it. needless to say i closed my box and returned to the comfort of the rare room where i felt safe and secure.

the moral of this is purely, dont wind yourself up, keep your own integrity, hold your head high and be proud that you buy originals

the market for reissues is what it is and isn't going to change, and most buyers of those releases wont be on here anyway and would give a toss what you think if they were

deep breathes....and relax

[Guest jerrio]

I dont think we will see the end of boots by acting together as you put it,they have allways been around and as long as there is a demand for them the bootleggers will cater for the demand.Ebay seems to allow boots to be sold even though they say its against their rules.As a collector myself i get sick of trawling through lists of them on Ebay.Then there are the recent Legit reissues but why so many different reissues of the same title? For example Sam Dees lonely for you baby,ive seen that on three different reissues one with Alternative take on the flip side one with Clifford Curry on the flipside and on with a solid centre.Are they all legit?I dont see anything wrong with legit reissues as it gives those that arent to concerned about originals the chance to own it on vynal and more important the artist and writers get there dues.Maybe someone on here could confirm the Sam Dees reissues are all legit.Regards Wrighty.

[Peter99]

I have been meaning to post this for a while as it's really getting me down, as a 50 yr old Northern Soul fanatic who has been collecting records for over 35 year I think this must be said.

At 15 years old and having very little money, I too collected bootleg records from wigan to play at the youth clubs etc, these records stuck out a mile that they were boots and to be honest nobody bothered as we all had f*ck all and as long as we could hear the top tunes during the week before heading back to Wigan at the weekend to see and hear the originals. At the time we also had Grapevine and Destiny records which too were repected, excepted and collectible.

As the years have gone by more money found its way into my pockets and originals were the order of the day, and lucky for me still quite easy to get hold of, now my collection is very large and filled with expensive top tunes which I get great pleasure of playing from time to time at soul nights in the North West.

Here's my problem, whoever is consistently reproducing the latest crop of top tunes on almost exactly the same label please f*ck *ff doing so, put them out on your own label if you want. Nothing worse than getting your records ready to do your spot when you see the DJ putting on a £10 boot which cost you £100's on the exact same label and now you cant get the pleasure of playing it.

You know who you are so get on with designing your own label before the TAX MAN has you.

I'm sure I'm not on my own with these thoughts. Together we can put a stop to this and keep Northern Soul the most wanted and expensive music ever.

I see what you're saying. But, here we go again! There's still a live thread running about this and numerous closed ones.

[Dobber]

i think that a true collector/dj of soul eventually ends up buying only originals because we all start off buying boots/reissues but it isnt long before the desire for the orig kicks in,im guessing alot of people buying the boots are people whom havent got the true feeling for an original yet,and for me personally if i dont have the original copy i dont want it "end of"!

[Dobber]

and while im at it....i would rather have an original that barely plays than a mint boot!...so yeah bootleggers...f*ck off!

[Supercorsa]

I take it we are referring to the Outta Sight label?

How have they released Gigi & the Charmaines - I Don't Want To Lose Him? When it was only issued 5/6 years ago on Kent 100 Club single, why has it not been released by Kent?

[Mark Bicknell]

you say together we will stop this and i will tell you right now....you wont

the reason these releases keep coming out is purely down to one very simple rule of business .... supply and demand

i went to a do a month or so ago to attend the rare room and support some mates in their endeavour, the rare room was almost empty, the main room was rammed to the rafters, i popped into the main room with my sales box to be confronted by a table about 20 foot long selling reissue after resissue, i didnt realise at first and started to have a look, i quickly picked up on this point as you can imagine and asked the guy selling if he had any originals to sell.. his response, why would i when i can sell these all night long. to be fair he had pretty good foot flow and seemed to be doing pretty well out of it. needless to say i closed my box and returned to the comfort of the rare room where i felt safe and secure.

the moral of this is purely, dont wind yourself up, keep your own integrity, hold your head high and be proud that you buy originals

the market for reissues is what it is and isn't going to change, and most buyers of those releases wont be on here anyway and would give a toss what you think if they were

deep breathes....and relax

Edited July 3, 2012 by Mark Bicknell

[KC Jr]

true words are spoken...I just hate them motherf*****s....wish they all burn in hell....

...I already start to fell better....

Just bought the Barrett Strong - Misery today after searching for years...came out last week as bootie on a almost look-a-like label...but its a killer tune and I needed to have it...

[Stevie]

What Mark say sums it up ...

[Guest Andy Kempster]

It has bugger all to do with supply and demand it's greed, financial gain and sod all else sorry.

thats a rediculous thing to say mark.....no demand = no supply, of course financial gain for the producer of these discs is also a driving force but they cannot force someone to buy something if they don't want to now can they

[Guest jerrio]

I take it we are referring to the Outta Sight label?

How have they released Gigi & the Charmaines - I Don't Want To Lose Him? When it was only issued 5/6 years ago on Kent 100 Club single, why has it not been released by Kent?

Yes the solid center one is a uk demo from Outta Sight 25 or 30 numbered but what about this one

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item2571fc785c&item=160826161244&nma=true&pt=UK_Records&rt=nc&si=gIIiXsOOOQFrgJ3oOpbaidiqpWI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[Mark Bicknell]

thats a rediculous thing to say mark.....no demand = no supply, of course financial gain for the producer of these discs is also a driving force but they cannot force someone to buy something if they don't want to now can they

Ok that's told me you know best.

[Pete S]

So what about the person who can't afford a £1000 copy of Lillie Bryant, does he go without or buy a bootleg for £20?

He buys a bootleg, obviously.

He being me of course.

I've had it since 1977, I play it here at home maybe twice a year, and anyone who doesn't approve of that well you know what you can do.

[Stevie]

OK you've had it since '77 Pete but in those days there was no alternative. Would you still buy a boot today or would you get it on CD, MP3 instead.

Must admit in this day and age I really have difficulty understanding the attraction of buying a boot for playing at home. My guess is that in the main they're being bought by "DJs".

[Pete S]

OK you've had it since '77 Pete but in those days there was no alternative. Would you still buy a boot today or would you get it on CD, MP3 instead.

Must admit in this day and age I really have difficulty understanding the attraction of buying a boot for playing at home. My guess is that in the main they're being bought by "DJs".

I'd buy it on vinyl, I'd have already got whatever it was on a cd or mp3.

[Guest]

blame the dj playing the boot, not the bootleggers.

infact, don't blame, educate...

[Ady Croasdell]

I take it we are referring to the Outta Sight label?

How have they released Gigi & the Charmaines - I Don't Want To Lose Him? When it was only issued 5/6 years ago on Kent 100 Club single, why has it not been released by Kent?

That's news to me, I'd have hoped to have been contacted about that one out of decency at least.

The 100 Club Kent one's the original anyway; so Yah Boo and Sucks.

[Simsy]

Yes the solid center one is a uk demo

And here in the UK we say centre.

[Greety]

On a similar note, talking about people prising money out of the scene.

Why do we need all these weekenders? Do the promoters really feel there is a need for yet another or are they just after their slice of, what must be, a diminishing pie?

[Dylan]

blame the dj playing the boot, not the bootleggers.

infact, don't blame, educate...

no, blame the bootlegger creating and selling the boot to the DJ.....

[NEV]

That's news to me, I'd have hoped to have been contacted about that one out of decency at least.

The 100 Club Kent one's the original anyway; so Yah Boo and Sucks.

Looks nice in green Ady

[Citizen P]

Looks nice in green Ady

No, it doesn't.................

My tuppence-

Being bought by the Only Played on 100% vinyl brigade.

T

[John Reed]

I thought the Outta Sight stuff was legit.

[Mike Lofthouse]

now my collection is very large and filled with expensive top tunes which I get great pleasure of playing from time to time at soul nights in the North West.

Here's my problem, whoever is consistently reproducing the latest crop of top tunes on almost exactly the same label please f*ck OFF doing so, put them out on your own FUCKING label if you want. Nothing worse than getting your records ready to do your spot when you see the DJ putting on a £10 boot which cost you £100's on the exact same label and now you cant get the pleasure of playing it.

I have never liked bootlegs - don't buy them, don't own them. I'm not really fond of legitimate re-issues - I'd rather have a CD compilation. However, I can't see how you have a problem - the release of bootlegs does not affect your collection and its value. Indeed, what does it matter how expensive your records are? Why are you DJing at events were people are carrying out such a reprehensible act (to you)? Indeed why are you DJing? take the records home and play them, I assure you, you will get pleasure listening to them there and no one will spoil it!

Mike

[Billywhizz]

blame the dj playing the boot, not the bootleggers.

infact, don't blame, educate...

spot on mr Royle

[Reg Scott]

true words are spoken...I just hate them motherf*****s....wish they all burn in hell....

...I already start to fell better....

Just bought the Barrett Strong - Misery today after searching for years...came out last week as bootie on a almost look-a-like label...but its a killer tune and I needed to have it...

That's something I missed, had the og for a while so not good to hear about a boot. Any more detail appreciated. As for the Sam Dees look a like mentioned above I thought that was a legit release which at least added something by including the alt take.

[Ady Croasdell]

Looks nice in green Ady

Yeah but an in accurate label, its P Date should be 2006 not 2012 and I'm not sure why it's Copyright Control it's Little People music on BMI. They probably used our audio we spent money on too.

[Supercorsa]

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/01926762

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07109623 - looking at the figures, something doesn't add up, are they giving these records away!?

[Supercorsa]

Yeah but an in accurate label, its P Date should be 2006 not 2012 and I'm not sure why it's Copyright Control it's Little People music on BMI. They probably used our audio we spent money on too.

Contact Les McCutcheon he's down as a Company Director for the manufactorers, Passion Music Ltd.

Passion Music Ltd

Address: International Trading Estate, Trident Way Postcode: UB2 5LF City/Town: Southall (London) Main phone: 020 8867 9361 Category: Record Labels

[NEV]

Yeah but an in accurate label, its P Date should be 2006 not 2012 and I'm not sure why it's Copyright Control it's Little People music on BMI. They probably used our audio we spent money on too.

Strangely i posted on here a while back ,asking the question about legitemacy of a lot of the re-issue stuff .

Question being ...because these people do it so openly and make out it's all legal ,does anybody really question it ?

or are they taking advantage, or even a chance that because most of the music is so dated ..is anybody gonna come after them ?

My post was about the copy of Clay Brown - everybodys talkin , being issued back to back with "walk with a groove " on a look alike florentine label ,and sold with the info commenting how expensive these records were on the label ? But "Everbody's Talking " was never issued on florentine .

[Simsy]

looking at the figures, something doesn't add up, are they giving these records away!?

Those figures aren't reliable.

[Pete S]

OK you've had it since '77 Pete but in those days there was no alternative. Would you still buy a boot today or would you get it on CD, MP3 instead.

Must admit in this day and age I really have difficulty understanding the attraction of buying a boot for playing at home. My guess is that in the main they're being bought by "DJs".

I'm not a DJ, I just like playing records Steve, nothing will replace that. I cannot afford to keep expensive originals as my job is to sell them, so if it's something I like, I will sell the original and replace it with anything that sounds the same and can be played on my record player. Not to dj with, just to play.

[Pete S]

Contact Les McCutcheon he's down as a Company Director for the manufactorers, Passion Music Ltd.

Passion Music Ltd

Address: International Trading Estate, Trident Way Postcode: UB2 5LF City/Town: Southall (London) Main phone: 020 8867 9361 Category: Record Labels

I bought a great collection of Northern off him once, at his office in Fulham, that would be back in around 1999 - 2000, had gold discs all over the place from his time as a producer I think.*

* or am I thinking of someone else???

Edited July 3, 2012 by Pete S

[Chalky]

Do we really need to have title to a topic like this? I'd have thought we were a little more educated than this. I've also removed or edited the swearing in posts where it wasn't edited.

Everyone should know about editing your words if you must swear as it causes problems with firewalls and other filters.

I know it is an emotive subject but anymore I will just remove the post as I'm not here to edit others postings.

[Pete S]

https://companycheck....ompany/01926762

https://companycheck....ompany/07109623 - looking at the figures, something doesn't add up, are they giving these records away!?

Second one is Glen I think, used to run Joe Boy Records?

[dean jj]

I HAVE SOME BOOTLEGS: salvadors, mel britt, tommy navaroe,etc. from my youth having not gone to wigan as a child and didn't know any better. .As a former record dealer [for 18 years] I refused to stock them,probably cost me a lot of money.but you have to have so moral backbone to go to bed at night. Socialism: it'll never catch on post thatcher

[Jaco]

Those figures aren't reliable.

They are reliable to the extent that the figures come from information in the public domain in the form of statutory accounts filed at Companies House, albeit in an abbreviated form.

[Guest]

OK you've had it since '77 Pete but in those days there was no alternative. Would you still buy a boot today or would you get it on CD, MP3 instead.

Must admit in this day and age I really have difficulty understanding the attraction of buying a boot for playing at home. My guess is that in the main they're being bought by "DJs".

I would buy a boot today rather than a CD or an MP3 just for playing at home because the sound quality of vinyl is complely different than digital formats...

[NEV]

Not sure i'd agree ..most of em today are probably recorded onto vinyl via a mp3 or cd track ??

[Pete S]

Not sure i'd agree ..most of em today are probably recorded onto vinyl via a mp3 or cd track ??

They seem to be releasing bootlegs of bootlegs and the sound quality is getting worse and worse, I heard a tommy navarro the other day and it was so tinny, off a bad mp3. The reason I know this is because I actually bought one, first in ages, because it was on the B side of Betty Turner - Winds kept Laughing, which is a record I like and have had four or five times, but again can't afford to buy a real one now so this £8 carver thing suited me.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Pete S

[Guest giant]

I have been meaning to post this for a while as it's really getting me down, as a 50 yr old Northern Soul fanatic who has been collecting records for over 35 year I think this must be said.

At 15 years old and having very little money, I too collected bootleg records from wigan to play at the youth clubs etc, these records stuck out a mile that they were boots and to be honest nobody bothered as we all had f*ck all and as long as we could hear the top tunes during the week before heading back to Wigan at the weekend to see and hear the originals. At the time we also had Grapevine and Destiny records which too were repected, excepted and collectible.

As the years have gone by more money found its way into my pockets and originals were the order of the day, and lucky for me still quite easy to get hold of, now my collection is very large and filled with expensive top tunes which I get great pleasure of playing from time to time at soul nights in the North West.

Here's my problem, whoever is consistently reproducing the latest crop of top tunes on almost exactly the same label please f*ck *ff doing so, put them out on your own label if you want. Nothing worse than getting your records ready to do your spot when you see the DJ putting on a £10 boot which cost you £100's on the exact same label and now you cant get the pleasure of playing it.

You know who you are so get on with designing your own label before the TAX MAN has you.

I'm sure I'm not on my own with these thoughts. Together we can put a stop to this and keep Northern Soul the most wanted and expensive music ever.

its not just the greedy bootlegers to blame 'some promoters have no knowledge about rare northern soul records and originals 'they buy boots and re-issues play them at their venues and they book other dj like them selves who don't know anything about originals' plays boots and re-issues. people who attend these venues are not rare soul crowd and not interested in what format the records on' in my opinion these promoters the dj's they book and the crowd who attend these venues are to blame for keeping the bootlegers going. no one is saying you have to buy expensive rare originals there loads of fantastic cheap originals often better than a thousand pound record should be played out at local venues.

[Guest sharmo 1]

true words are spoken...I just hate them motherf*****s....wish they all burn in hell....

...I already start to fell better....

Just bought the Barrett Strong - Misery today after searching for years...came out last week as bootie on a almost look-a-like label...but its a killer tune and I needed to have it...

Hi mate very sorry to tell you that the Barret Strong is a legit release it's part of the jukebox jam seres by jazzman records they are a totaly legit operation and seriously i wouldn't publicly call them counterfeiters or bootleggers honestly mate they don't take prisoners in the legal department.i sell all their stuff openly i have paid invoice's from the distributors who are a massive multimedia company regards Simon.

[Guest sharmo 1]

Strangely i posted on here a while back ,asking the question about legitemacy of a lot of the re-issue stuff .

Question being ...because these people do it so openly and make out it's all legal ,does anybody really question it ?

or are they taking advantage, or even a chance that because most of the music is so dated ..is anybody gonna come after them ?

My post was about the copy of Clay Brown - everybodys talkin , being issued back to back with "walk with a groove " on a look alike florentine label ,and sold with the info commenting how expensive these records were on the label ? But "Everbody's Talking " was never issued on florentine .

Your quite right about that but with all Tramp reissues they use the name Tramp in the original logo this is part of their product all Tramp products are legit and ltd and of a high standard .They also have a modern jazz and modern funk lable that release new music from artists all over the world again very sincere and honest operation regards Simon.

[Jhsoulnotts]

and while im at it....i would rather have an original that barely plays than a mint boot!...so yeah bootleggers...f*ck off!

Had loads of them ones, like they've been stored in a box of nails, tonight I'm trying to clean up Fabulous Denos, gets annoying after a while Sometimes pick up boots in packs, never keep em, straight on ebay, even If I'll never be able to afford the original!

Edited July 3, 2012 by Jhsoulnotts

[Pk 22dj]

After calming down somewhat and looking back at my post reactions I would like to apologise for the fffing, at my age as you rightly say i should calm down a bit and ignore what's going on. They will carry on booting and I have no doubt collectors will buy them, I said collectors not so called DJs. You don't have to have £1000 pound records to be a good DJ, as there are fantastic tunes we all love and fill a dance floors for 10-20 quid and on original labels. My problem is copying labels is totally wrong as the people who buy them would buy them for a £10 on a printed white label if they wanted to play them at home etc. The fact I saw some DJ play something on a boot and did not say anything was due to two things, firstly I can't see that good without my specks and did not realise it was a boot till I was told afterwards. Secondly the tune had just been booted that week, one thing is for sure if it were on a white label that DJ would not have played it. I'm lucky as most of us are to have records that have gone through the roof value wise due mainly to the fact I carried on buying after Wigan etc not knowing they would double / treble in price. I was hoping they might read this and adjust their thoughts on label design, not holding out much hope though. Cheers everyone and keep on souling, I'm off to Valencia with a box of originals this weekend to DJ life is not that bad after all.

Edited July 3, 2012 by pk 22dj

[Guest sharmo 1]

I've got mixed feelings about this for instance I will hold my hands up and say that I have some of the white lable unissued Motown thing's in my collection including suspician at both speeds ! some albums , some 45's even some tapes .I also have a few original Jobete studio discs as well I'm loosing no sleep over the white lable stuff.I collect loads of differant types of music and mostly have originals but I do have a lot of reissues as well this is because the odd thing comes along that's just o.k for a fiver or whatever on a reissue but not good enough to spend thousands of pounds on , Frank Wilson does come to mind .Most people would love a Lester Tipton or an Al Williams and in a world where people are struggling to make ends meet to own originals is not even a consideration.Some of my reggae has to be on reissue as finding a playable original is never going to happen , i also have a copie of the Ringleaders "All of my life" on two 45's I'll never own the original acetate and like to have a copie for the odd spin at home .i wouldn't play a reissue on a dj spot .I see no problem with a legit reissue as this normaly put's a few quid (hopefully) in the right pocket well that's my confession over with regards Simon.

[NEV]

Simon ...I used this is an example that aroused my original suspicion

..I'm aware now and got the answers regarding the tramp records when I posed the question 2yr back .

But still find it very odd that someone can re-issue a 45 and not get the correct info when it is there to be found ?

I'm not in the business of putting out re-issues myself, so the legal issue of who actually gives the authority to the rights of a record ,that is on a long since deleted label or maybe a deceased artist is alien to me ??

If I were to contemplate the idea ,I'd make sure to get the important details first ..starting with Google

[Guest sharmo 1]

Simon ...I used this is an example that aroused my original suspicion

..I'm aware now and got the answers regarding the tramp records when I posed the question 2yr back .

But still find it very odd that someone can re-issue a 45 and not get the correct info when it is there to be found ?

I'm not in the business of putting out re-issues myself, so the legal issue of who actually gives the authority to the rights of a record ,that is on a long since deleted label or maybe a deceased artist is alien to me ??

If I were to contemplate the idea ,I'd make sure to get the important details first ..starting with Google

It's a very good example Nev and totaly agree I think it was probably cheaper to go with one lable design as it was ltd to 250 unit's all the best mate Simon.

[Geeselad]

you say together we will stop this and i will tell you right now....you wont

the reason these releases keep coming out is purely down to one very simple rule of business .... supply and demand

i went to a do a month or so ago to attend the rare room and support some mates in their endeavour, the rare room was almost empty, the main room was rammed to the rafters, i popped into the main room with my sales box to be confronted by a table about 20 foot long selling reissue after resissue, i didnt realise at first and started to have a look, i quickly picked up on this point as you can imagine and asked the guy selling if he had any originals to sell.. his response, why would i when i can sell these all night long. to be fair he had pretty good foot flow and seemed to be doing pretty well out of it. needless to say i closed my box and returned to the comfort of the rare room where i felt safe and secure.

the moral of this is purely, dont wind yourself up, keep your own integrity, hold your head high and be proud that you buy originals

the market for reissues is what it is and isn't going to change, and most buyers of those releases wont be on here anyway and would give a toss what you think if they were

deep breathes....and relax

its all so true, but so sad and depressing.