Original Vinyl Only Do..not Quite

[Guest EssexSoulSounds]

It was me who put this night on in question .like I said we never advertised NS djs or that it was a OVO .all I was asked to do was try and put a NS night together and we had 120 people there ! We have learnt a lot since and the next one we have 2 local lads playing vinyl KTF people

[Guest EssexSoulSounds]

For gods sake this was a local Northern soul night and not a 'A Wigan re-union' it's about KTF thankfully people still want to Dance and Listen to NS... I for one am grateful.. We had a brilliant night and I travelled from London to be there.. And yes I did go to Wigan and still travel now to Blackpool & Preststyn.. And I do realise the importance of OV but this this was a group of people enjoying the music... It was a great night and really shouldn't be over analyzed...

[Winnie :-)]

Aren't these topics a bit pointless without the alternative view, it's just preaching to the converted............

[Winnie :-)]

Aren't these topics a bit pointless without the alternative view, it's just preaching to the converted............

And right on cue, the alternative view

[Guest EssexSoulSounds]

I agree everyone should have there opinion... I was just saying it was a really good night..

[Pete S]

Yep those were the days,used to carry a box of records round (still got the box) and a Discatron(portable french record player,now long gone) and go to local park Cussy Hill and laze around in the sun on a sunny weekend playing sounds to anyone who gathered around.The Discatron

you slot record into top and press right hand button which clamped record and started it spinning then needle was forced onto record at beggining at a pressure of about 2 tons.still got Washed ashore by platters on musicor that was played thousands of times on this and is now totally F'd. But great memories.

O.V.O. only of course!!!! tapes PAH!!!!

Most if not all Discotron's were made here in the West Midlands...Birmingham I think

[Winnie :-)]

I agree everyone should have there opinion... I was just saying it was a really good night..

I don't know if that's to me, if it was, the only point I was making was, that this is a recurring topic, and without someone to put the other side of the coin as it were, it's not really a debate Hence me saying, ''right on cue the alternative view'', no malice intended

[redcoupe]

For gods sake this was a local Northern soul night and not a 'A Wigan re-union' it's about KTF thankfully people still want to Dance and Listen to NS... I for one am grateful.. We had a brilliant night and I travelled from London to be there.. And yes I did go to Wigan and still travel now to Blackpool & Preststyn.. And I do realise the importance of OV but this this was a group of people enjoying the music... It was a great night and really shouldn't be over analyzed...

i agree with you i enjoyed the night as well the laptop question was because the formats new to me,i didnt realise it would cause such a stir,ill think twice about what i post in future ,glad you enjoyed it,hope to see you at the next one...

[Jumpinjoan]

...hmm there are still a few unknown/semi-known tracks at least for the majority of non-dj punters ;) ..... also for a younger crowd or even future generations etiquite and uniqueness within a music/club scene may have it's attraction as well as the details of how to dress propper as a mod, skinhead, punk....and so on.... I would still like to have cheddar cheese from around sommerset and a lovely bordeaux from france in the near future btw !!!! funny though that some of the I don't care about the format brigade were up in arms about the past and current soul film regarding the right clothes and so on....

Of course there are tunes that people don't know but that's not what I was replying to. It was your comment about travelling to venues to hear records you couldn't hear anywhere else. On the whole, those days are long gone ...

[Smudger]

Most if not all Discotron's were made here in the West Midlands...Birmingham I think

Yep your right Pete a little research online Aston to be precise,always thought they were French for some reason

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/discatron_discatron_de_luxe.html

[Pete S]

Most if not all Discotron's were made here in the West Midlands...Birmingham I think

Yep your right Pete a little research online Aston to be precise,always thought they were French for some reason

https://www.radiomuse...on_de_luxe.html

Yeah I think I took mine apart and the address was in there, or it might be in the battery compartment.

[Alkie]

Think this might of cleared this up KTF Hartlepool in the future

[Ceejay]

Surely this exactly the reason that there are too many nights on - a current and frequent gripe on here. Any promoter/dj can get a night going, playing top tunes at minimal cost.

IMO they've invested money straight into their own pockets rather than into the scene.

- Kev

One thing that get's me is at these Overplayed Oldes type of nights...............why on earth do promoters pay for a DJ from out of the area, put them up in a hotel and pay them their fee, when 80/90 per cent of their punters wouldn't know the difference between Russ Winstanley and Butch, let alone give a shit about whether it's OVO, MP3 or CD, lol!!!!

Edited October 17, 2012 by Carol J

[Pete Eccles]

One thing that get's me is at these Overplayed Oldes type of nights...............why on earth do promoters pay for a DJ from out of the area, put them up in a hotel and pay them their fee, when 80/90 per cent of their punters wouldn't know the difference between Russ Winstanley and Butch, let alone give a shit about whether it's OVO, MP3 or CD, lol!!!!

Because contrary to popular belief you can play a set of classic oldies at one oldies event and go down a storm, play the same set elsewhere (another oldies event) and die a death, which is why experienced DJ's like say Ginger can read what's required and deliver, the crowd may not have a clue who is playing the tunes but they will know they had a good night,

A bit like Eric Morecambe and Andre Previn, you can play all the right records but play them in the wrong order and it can be pretty disjointed,

[Ceejay]

Because contrary to popular belief you can play a set of classic oldies at one oldies event and go down a storm, play the same set elsewhere (another oldies event) and die a death, which is why experienced DJ's like say Ginger can read what's required and deliver, the crowd may not have a clue who is playing the tunes but they will know they had a good night,

A bit like Eric Morecambe and Andre Previn, you can play all the right records but play them in the wrong order and it can be pretty disjointed,

But does it make any difference as to who is bloody playing it.................which was my point!!!!

[Pete Eccles]

But does it make any difference as to who is bloody playing it.................which was my point!!!!

Of course it does, that's my point, someone who has been playing to NS dance floors for a lifetime, kinda knows how to do it and usually is busy enough to demand a fee,

[Ceejay]

It was me who put this night on in question .like I said we never advertised NS djs or that it was a OVO .all I was asked to do was try and put a NS night together and we had 120 people there ! We have learnt a lot since and the next one we have 2 local lads playing vinyl KTF people

SO YOU WERE ASKED TO PUT A NORTHERN SOUL NIGHT ON............WHOOPEY DOOO!!!......................SO WAS THIS THE ONLY REASON WHY YOU PUT IT ON, BECAUSE SOMEONE ASKED YOU TO.................I WOULD RATHER YOU HAD SAID "I PUT THIS NIGHT ON BECAUSE I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT THE MUSIC" OR ALONG THOSE LINES!!

GOD, THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SCENE THESE DAYS..................ANY TOM, DICK OR HARRY...................OR ALKIE!!!!!

MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!!!

TIME FOR BED NOW AND I'LL BE SLEEPING IN ME COAT!!!!

Edited October 17, 2012 by Carol J

[Roburt]

This thread has gone the way of all previous OVO threads ....

Those that think only OVO nights are 'real soul' night's & so loose their rag at any opposing view ...

& those who just wanna enjoy a nite out & don't GaF what type of format is played as long as they hear good sounds & have a good time.

The OVO's think they have the Soul Poice on their side; nobody else cares if they do or not.

I'm told that God says only play original vinyl; but I've never believed in religion so know he don't exist.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Roburt

[Alkie]

SO YOU WERE ASKED TO PUT A NORTHERN SOUL NIGHT ON............WHOOPEY DOOO!!!......................SO WAS THIS THE ONLY REASON WHY YOU PUT IT ON, BECAUSE SOMEONE ASKED YOU TO.................I WOULD RATHER YOU HAD SAID "I PUT THIS NIGHT ON BECAUSE I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT THE MUSIC" OR ALONG THOSE LINES!!

GOD, THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SCENE THESE DAYS..................ANY TOM, DICK OR HARRY...................OR ALKIE!!!!!

MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!!!

TIME FOR BED NOW AND I'LL BE SLEEPING IN ME COAT!!!!

[Alkie]

Lmao some people

[Guest brummiemick]

I have posted quite rarely on Soul Source since I became a member as i do not have the knowledge that many here have and prefer to simply read & learn more about the music, it's origins and history.

I know very few people on the scene but those that I have met in person or via the internet are invariably very friendly, passionate and give their knowledge freely.

Although I understand the basic arguments, i have definitely avoided the OVO debate as despite the camaraderie, it always seems to be very divisive and drives people even further apart. Also I have doubted that I could add much & bluntly am wary of being shot down in flames ! ....but sod it, here's my long winded view.....

I very much admire those that champion the OVO tradition, see why it needs protecting and wherever possible will tend to attend OVO events. But I am not an OVO fundamentalist. I could afford to build a reasonable OVO collection but approaching my 60th year i don't have the ability or patience to do the research needed. So apart from a relatively small number of OVO 45s I have bought 1000 s of mp3 tracks via iTunes & loads of CDs via Amazon & elsewhere etc because I simply LOVE listening to the music!

I have only attended 4 different venues and a total of 8 nights in the last year & on 4 of those nights brought along different friends who had never attended a Northern Soul event - some of who loved it & have since attended events under their own steam.

But to my point...

I note how some of the comments on this and similar threads often suggest that a primary cause of OVO's demise is down to promoters "greed", who are less bothered about format and its more about lining their own pockets. To differing degrees I wonder if they are in reality helping to keep NS more generally going?

Clearly from different threads it is true that there are those who first & foremost do it for the money but are they the exception to the rule?

I have no connection with any promoters, cannot speak about the major events but all of the events I have attended in the last 12 months have played Vinyl - I don't know whether they were all religiously OVO but believe three were and the one that possibly wasn't, was still attended by many diehard Soulies. I met all the promoters and they were Northern Soul through and through, passionate about their events and in three cases clearly in it as a life style rather than for the money. The events were mainly attended by time served Soulies, but as with my friends, understand they all had new faces from time to time.

The four venues I attended, do between 9 - 12 events each per year. All of the venues had at least 2 guest DJ's, charged around £5 admission and the numbers varied from 70 - 150. I haven't any clue what the DJs get paid and what other expenses are incurred, but the revenue generated would be £350- £750 per night and around £3,500 - £8-9000 per year. In reality if any of them is making £5000 per year i would be amazed. So i cannot see how any of these promoters can be "lining their pockets" or am I missing something? Incidentally the. best attended was the one which wasn't exclusively OVO.

If no-one is making much from these events, i doubt many others holding similar size events that are not OVO & playing off CDs etc are either - maybe i am naive but is strikes me that most "promoters" do it for the love of the music & maybe a bit of ego but little profit.

But in any case are these less fundamental events still satisfying a local demand and more casual crowd, most of who wouldn't make the effort to attend a strictly OVO event and actually helping in a small way to keep Northern Soul alive?

I am not going to (I can think of much easier ways to make money!) but theoretically if i decided to put on an NS do playing CDs, reissued Vinyl and the little bit of OVO that i have etc for a bunch of friends, soulies etc and made £150 to cover expenses would i be a traitor to the OVO cause, or helping to spread the faith in a very small way? Should it really be my concern that someone has spent £100's or £1000s on the OVO?

As I have said I really admire those who avidly protect the OVO tradition and think it should be held up as the Gold Standard, but sadly also think the "alternative format" tide is against them and would question whether the actual music is more important than the format?

Would more be gained for the long term future of the NS scene by finding a way to compromise, and in turn further spreading the faith? Or will debates such as on this thread create even more polarised positions and accelerate the decline?

In my personal opinion if the OVO & "Rare Soul" aficionado's want to take back some of the initiative from the more commercial interests they have to find a middle ground or just accept that pure OVO will be heard by an ever decreasing minority.

***puts helmet on - be gentle folks - remember I am novice, albeit an old one!! ***

Edited October 18, 2012 by brummiemick

[boba]

***puts helmet on - be gentle folks - remember I am novice, albeit an old one!! ***

I appreciated the honesty, sincerity, and rationality of your post -- you put yourself out there. I hope people that respond take the time to consider your points and respond rationally rather than reverting to the same old attacks that don't really address anything you wrote.

[Dekka]

Keep on doing what you wanna do Brummymick

I'm still gob smacked 3 posters on here are blissfully unaware 3 'big names' are (occasionaly) using Laptops

Have a go at the little man in the little town, local only and not nationally advertised

but when big man does it and nationally advertise, keep gob shut

[Guest davidruffin]

SO YOU WERE ASKED TO PUT A NORTHERN SOUL NIGHT ON............WHOOPEY DOOO!!!......................SO WAS THIS THE ONLY REASON WHY YOU PUT IT ON, BECAUSE SOMEONE ASKED YOU TO.................I WOULD RATHER YOU HAD SAID "I PUT THIS NIGHT ON BECAUSE I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT THE MUSIC" OR ALONG THOSE LINES!!

GOD, THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SCENE THESE DAYS..................ANY TOM, DICK OR HARRY...................OR ALKIE!!!!!

MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL!!!!

TIME FOR BED NOW AND I'LL BE SLEEPING IN ME COAT!!!!

I heard 'Alkie' was asked to do this night because Taffy (who organised the night, promoted it etc) couldn't do it because his wife was bad, so instead of rearranging the night the club in question asked a non believer to step in, he did and so the story goes...

PS Taffy organises the best Northern Soul night in Hartlepool once a year, A Night Of Soul (A Night of Soul IV [February 9th 2013])

Edited October 18, 2012 by davidruffin

[Chatty]

I've just attended a do and the Dj was playing bootleg mp3s on an original laptop, where does he stand?

[Citizen P]

I've just attended a do and the Dj was playing bootleg mp3s on an original laptop, where does he stand?

Not behind the decks.

Tony

[Guest turntableterra]

quote name='tonyp' timestamp='1350552793' post='1811332']

Not behind the decks.

Tony

[/quote

well said. and a well put together post by brummy. sadly though there are people who do it for the dosh, play bootlegs, went to wigan at 13, or didnt go at all. etc. for the wrong reasons. diferent post. probably should be in the why lie thread

[Kev Cane]

I've just attended a do and the Dj was playing bootleg mp3s on an original laptop, where does he stand?

:lol:

[Jhsoulnotts]

Just vote with your feet...

Personally I would not be happy paying for someone to do the same as I can at home (much better) with a laptop and youtube!

IMO If your not playing original vinyl that you have personally researched, chosen, searched for and bought there isn't much point having a DJ at all!

However, I'm not daft enough to think that will mean anything or change the behaviour of those who treat soul nights the same as X-Factor or Strictly

It seems "Keep the Faith" has never meant so little...

J

[Guest Krissii]

Another silly question from me . If all the vinyl in the world dissapeared today and everything (even stuff that hasnt been found yet) was easily available on mp3 what effect would it have at underplayed/rarer venues and what would those SAME djs sets be like ? Would they be better or similar or worse . I know its a daft question but

[Tezza]

Another silly question from me . If all the vinyl in the world dissapeared today and everything (even stuff that hasnt been found yet) was easily available on mp3 what effect would it have at underplayed/rarer venues and what would those SAME djs sets be like ? Would they be better or similar or worse . I know its a daft question but

Really ?? Is there a question in there ??

[Tezza]

Because contrary to popular belief you can play a set of classic oldies at one oldies event and go down a storm, play the same set elsewhere (another oldies event) and die a death, which is why experienced DJ's like say Ginger can read what's required and deliver, the crowd may not have a clue who is playing the tunes but they will know they had a good night,

A bit like Eric Morecambe and Andre Previn, you can play all the right records but play them in the wrong order and it can be pretty disjointed,

Pete - Eric Morecambe/Andre Previn analogy - Brilliant - PMSL !!!

[Dekka]

Another silly question from me . If all the vinyl in the world dissapeared today and everything (even stuff that hasnt been found yet) was easily available on mp3 what effect would it have at underplayed/rarer venues and what would those SAME djs sets be like ? Would they be better or similar or worse . I know its a daft question but

The events would never take place,

The reason we have always gone to these events is to hear records we would never own or have never heard of

These boys have spent a lifetime collecting and deserve repect.

If it was all on MP3 we would all have the music and all have no respect

[Guest Krissii]

sorry Dekka . Meant to put a ? after my line "would they be . . . . . . "

[Spacehopper]

obvously there sets would be different as they would have more tunes at their disposal but they would still have the principal of playing something others havnt aswell as the big indemanders...and thats the problem to many oldies nites play the same old tunes a lot dont even try to find a few that are underplayed....

[Guest Krissii]

yes and not disputing that they are great djs because they most certainly are (the best in the world imo) but would THEIR (not other djs) sets be better similar or worse ?

[Spacehopper]

similar.....because they have the same taste in music and philosiphy of playing something a bit different....a set is only 20 odd tracks long so a dj can play better or worse sets now with a box of 200...2000 tracks doesnt mean he will play a better set

[Guest Krissii]

exactly , they want to play and people want hear something different . . . so format is irrelevant

[Tezza]

exactly , they want to play and people want hear something different . . . so format is irrelevant

Is there a point to this discussion ??

It makes no sense !!

[Dekka]

exactly , they want to play and people want hear something different . . . so format is irrelevant

But there are formats krissi, thats why your making no sense,

without the original format being preserved, there would be no MP3, or boots, or reissues etc

and thats the whole point

[nickp]

Can you imagine trying to cue up a cassette tape? I'd certainly pay to see that and applaud anyone who managed it.

One of the best nights I ever had in the Sub Club, Glasgow ,was a Sunday night with Ron Trent and Chez Damier djing, early nineties.

Throughout his set Chez kept introducing a track which no one knew at the time, Danell Dixon 'Dance'it came from a cassette tape.

I just noticed that someone else has commented about this night on the youtube link and I remember all of us clamouring for the record to be shown a compact cassette !

Edited October 18, 2012 by nickp

[Guest Krissii]

I just think that what makes a good dj (underplayed/left field or classics) is the choices he makes and not what format it is played off . Thats all .

[Spacehopper]

for the 100th time(this year) you have got to look at the bigger picture...if it wasnt for djs/collecters etc searching and playing vinyl there would be no mp3s to play....and if every tom dick and harry starts a soul nite because all they have to do is buy a laptop and splits an already decreasing pool of punters nites like lifeline,bidds etc will dissapear..so why should people still go to the states to find tunes which eventually means there will be nuffin new on you tube...no new kent cds and everynite will be boring as f+++ IMO ;-)

[paultp]

I just think that what makes a good dj (underplayed/left field or classics) is the choices he makes and not what format it is played off . Thats all .

Well, there's nothing wrong with thinking that, it's just that some people want to hear the actual records. Sometimes they want to look at them as well, perhaps occasionally hold them in their hands and even caress them.

Of course you can be a great DJ using any format you want, but for a lot of people what they want is for someone to be a great DJ with original issue records that they have gone out and found and actually own. They've chosen the records from the many available, over time put them into a collection then selected some of their favourites, that they think other people will like/want to hear and tried to play them in an order that sounds good and gets people to dance.

Thus they've put some of their own personality into sourcing and then playing those records. Well, those are the people I would want to hear DJing, not someone who could select a load of easily available tunes and play them one after the other for people to dance to. Its just not the same, might as well go to a "Disco" whatever that is.

[Roger Williams]

Anyone for a laptop dancing club?

[Sean Hampsey]

Anyone for a laptop dancing club?

Geeeeeeeeenius!

:0)

[Roburt]

Anyone for a laptop dancing club?

Do you mean this type of place Roger ??? ....

[Grayman45]

Here's a question, might be a daft one: How come all this sacred music from vinyl has ended up as MP3's. Don't shout at me for being ignorant.

[KevH]

Here's a question, might be a daft one: How come all this sacred music from vinyl has ended up as MP3's. Don't shout at me for being ignorant.

To preserve it.And so folks can take it on their hols on an i-pod.

Edited October 18, 2012 by KevH

[Grayman45]

To preserve it.And so folks can take it on their hols on an i-pod.

Fair comment, but surely sticking it on youtube is/was always asking for trouble? Do you see where I'm coming from, or am I too wide of the mark?

Edited October 18, 2012 by Grayman45