7Th Avenue Aviators Vs. Frankie Carl

[Guest gibber]

Which one is the hardest to pick up & what got played first ?

[Steve G]

Frankie Karl and Frankie Karl I'd say (played at WC by Richard)....same recording though isn't it?

[grant]

certainly seems to be more of the 7th Ave's been sold over the years

https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=frankie+karl&x=27&y=16

https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=7th+avenue+aviators&thumbs=&currsel=&sortord=&x=23&y=16

[Guest gibber]

Thanks for the reply Steve

Sorry meant what label,. Did RS play it on Congress and someone realises got the same on Philtown

So what’s the story about different labels?

[Mrtag]

A lot more Congress 7th Ave Aviators around than the Philtown releases and don't be fooled by the price guide seen more green/yellow issues and wdj copies than the red issues

[Dennisoul]

7th Ave issue is a hard one......the flip to Frankie Karl is really nice, can't remember off hand what it's called though.

[Barry]

Oh! the way that the 7th A used to bump out of those Wigan speakers...a stand alone memory.

[Roburt]

Frankie Karl was originally from LA where he sang in gospel choirs with the likes of Gloria Jones & Billy Preston.

He joined the US airforce & it was in that period that he helped form the Chevrons.

I believe that the F.K. & Chevrons tracks were cut in Philly under the direction of Dave Chackler who went on to be a big promotions guy for Mercury / Smash Records (he was credited with breaking Jay & the Techniques "Apple, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie").

After he left the airforce, Frankie returned to LA and there hooked up with (U)gene Dozier. Gene cut him in LA on a song titled "Don't Be Afraid" but then Gene relocated to DC. He released the track on a DC 45 & it hit big -- the 45 being picked up for national distribution by Bell.

Gene had failed to sign Frankie to a contract & so with a hit on his hands, he signed with the label that offered him the most money (Liberty) and never had another hit !!.

[Steve G]

Richard played it on Phil Town as I recall it. The 7th Ave Aviators was played pretty soon afterwards. Why two labels? usual story someone hawking round the masters for release I'd say.

Roburt, he also recorded for Gordy just before he died.

[Guest]

..same recording though isn't it?

My memory says no...the Philtown sounds a touch more sparse/group-sounding in its production.

I'd put rarity in this order...rarest first:

Red Philtown

Green/yellow Philtown

WD Philtown

WD Congress

...unless there is a stock copy on Congress, as I've never seen one.

[Chalky]

I thought the recordings were the same except the into was longer on one?

[Guest]

I thought the recordings were the same except the into was longer on one?

The intro percussion, especially the more 'thuddier' bass-drum (Philtown), and tambourine work (far higher/crisper on Congress) are different...I had WDs on both labels at one stage and can recall there was a difference.

[Steve Foran]

Frankie Karl was also in either Hair or Jesus Christ Superstar.

Think the Red Philtown is the rarer format. Actually got a signed copy. Richard played it on a White Philtown copy at WC.

[Speedlimit]

searling played frankie karl first late 79 covered as the showmen 7th avenue aviators ws played a year or so later

[Prophonics 2029]

7th is more in your face where frankie sounds like its a bigger hall sound with short and long intro's.

Allways a bit confusing cheverons or aviators when trying to find out if these were just part of the cover up story to bamboozled your brains

Edited October 29, 2012 by Prophonics 2029

[Roburt]

Frankie Karl played Hud in the LA stage version of 'Hair'. Next the cast moved to Vegas and in 1971 they played what's now the Hilton Hotel.

After that, the cast went on the road & played quite a few US cities .....

[Roburt]

Frankie's mid to late 60's publicity shot .....

[Guest martyn]

searling played frankie karl first late 79 covered as the showmen 7th avenue aviators ws played a year or so later

Would say thats how I remember it too

[bri pinch]

The Flip...used to have a red Philtown copy many moons ago, another one that got away i guess

Edited October 29, 2012 by bri pinch

[Trev Thomas]

The Flip...used to have a red Philtown copy many moons ago, another one that got away i guess

me too bri

[Sunnysoul]

At least three variations of the Congress white demo ... any others?

And ... anyone have a picture of the Congress stock copy ... if it exists that is ... ?

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by sunnysoul

[Dave Pinch]

On 2012-10-29 at 09:06, bri pinch said:

 

 

The Flip...used to have a red Philtown copy many moons ago, another one that got away i guess

Just like the philtown w/d and the 3 congress w/d eh bro 😄

[John Parker]

Got a red Philtown Frankie Karl from Soul Bowl many years ago

Rarest by a long way

[Sunnysoul]

Anyone got a  picture of a red Congress stock copy ?

[Stubbsy]

I had a Philtown w/d. Bloody great record - in my all time top 5. Still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Even the missus likes it!

[Stubbsy]

Surprised to see it wasn't played out till 1979

[Goldsoul]

On 28/10/2012 at 12:11, Roburt said:

Frankie Karl was originally from LA where he sang in gospel choirs with the likes of Gloria Jones & Billy Preston.

He joined the US airforce & it was in that period that he helped form the Chevrons.

I believe that the F.K. & Chevrons tracks were cut in Philly under the direction of Dave Chackler who went on to be a big promotions guy for Mercury / Smash Records (he was credited with breaking Jay & the Techniques "Apple, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie").

After he left the airforce, Frankie returned to LA and there hooked up with (U)gene Dozier. Gene cut him in LA on a song titled "Don't Be Afraid" but then Gene relocated to DC. He released the track on a DC 45 & it hit big -- the 45 being picked up for national distribution by Bell.

Gene had failed to sign Frankie to a contract & so with a hit on his hands, he signed with the label that offered him the most money (Liberty) and never had another hit !!.

Frankie was also in the group The Tripps on Victoria. I interviewed him 10 years ago while he was working for DHL. 

Sadly no longer with us.  

[Dobber]

8 hours ago, sunnysoul said:

Anyone got a  picture of a red Congress stock copy ?

dont think it saw an issue on congress,although it would be nice to see one,

along with a sam williams issue!

[Guest Soulskate70]

On 29 October 2012 at 09:06, bri pinch said:

 

 

The Flip...used to have a red Philtown copy many moons ago, another one that got away i guess

Am I the only one on this site that knew the flip before the "Northern" side? It was well liked by a lot of Soul-Harmony/Group fans. I remember a relative hearing You Should O Held on and asking if it was the Dirty Dancing soundtrack....!!!