News: Terry Callier - Rip

[Mister Fish]

What a wonderful man. I was lucky enough to see him and Gil SC in the last year.

What a huge void.

Very sad.

Peace TC love xx

[Len]

R.I.P Terry Callier, we will be forever dancing to your great work.

Love from,

Len 'n' Nina x

[Pep]

A sad and major loss to the soul world.

Knowing his music well from the early/mid seventies (when things were a tad more frantic!) I never then expected to hear any of it on the soul scene. However the scene being what it is, picked up on the quality of them and promoted them. Deservedly.

I never investigated the record number or release date of this ("Look At Me Now") and always assumed it was much later. It certainly sounds quite modern and ahead of its time for a 1962/3 recording.

R.I.P. Terry.

[oldsteve woomble]

There was rain today

And crystal blue was hidden by a cloudy gray

A sudden shower come to chase the sun away

Occasional rain

Damn the weatherman

He seems to work against me any way he can

And he’s been dealing tear-drops since the world began

And occasional pain

And blue you, don’t believe I’m talking to you

The light is shining through you - still you will not see

Blue you - think I’m trying to undo you

When I only want to seek the Truth

And speak true

I can’t tell you when

But someday soon we’ll see the sun re-born again

And there’ll be light without as well as light within

And occasional rain

[Mister Fish]

I saw a dream last night

bright like a falling star.

And the sources of light,

seemed so near,

yet so far.

I thought i was in flight,

out where the planets are.

Moving between day and night.

Hear am I,

there you are.

Follow the dancing girl,

vision and embrace.

Such an entrancing girl,

she moves with such rhythm and grace.

Who can she be?

Follow the dancing girl,

go to the quiet place.

Here in the weary world,

somewhere between time and space.

We shall be free.

Each of us is born alone.

Well welcome to the twilight zone.

You can leave with only what you bring.

Things we cannot see appear.

Singing songs we cannot hear.

An everything is surely everything.

Meanwhile in the ghettos dust and gloom.

Bird is blowin in his room.

All those notes(x3)

wont take the pain away.

And you'll surely come to harm,

with that needle all up in your arm.

And dope will never turn the night to day.

Just a little further down the line.

Baby sister its these streets at night.

I say the wind blows chilly,

And the women need new shoes.

So just tell her,

tell her what you wanna do.

boogie, bop or boogalo?

I said tell her what you wanna do

boogie, bop or boogaloo?

I said tell her, tell her

what you wanna do.

Boogie, bop or boogalo

[manus]

RIP Terry Callier - what a talented man and not only a great performer but also an immense , dignified presence on stage.

[Guest enchantedrythm]

• always remember African Violets
  

[Agentsmith]

Ady,

just smiling at this.

I was tasked with looking after Terry - and his daughter Sundiata - when he was in London that time. At 21 it was the first time I had ever had to do such a thing and I was a little nervous. I made my way up to Willesden, walked in and before I could work out what was going on, I saw Terry, acoustic guitar in hand running through 'Ordinary Joe'. It was an absolutely amazing introduction to a lovely lovely man, who deserved all the success he got in his later years.

Dean

that quote for me dean, brings a lump in the throat....a person can spend all their lives with that one sublimnal dream in their heads...yours came true and what an entrance i imagine it must have been. tc, a blessed musician whose work is a cosmopolitan tapestry encompassing afro-american music in its many formats but appealed to all colours.

god bless you terry, r.i.p.

[Autumnstoned]

Very sad news - his great talent as a songwriting artist and performer will be missed by many.

[Little-stevie]

Ady,

just smiling at this.

I was tasked with looking after Terry - and his daughter Sundiata - when he was in London that time. At 21 it was the first time I had ever had to do such a thing and I was a little nervous. I made my way up to Willesden, walked in and before I could work out what was going on, I saw Terry, acoustic guitar in hand running through 'Ordinary Joe'. It was an absolutely amazing introduction to a lovely lovely man, who deserved all the success he got in his later years.

Dean

Nice story Dean...

The time i saw him at the Ritz Manchester, he walked on stage playing "Ordinary Joe", one of them moments when you just lose control when full of emotion, i jumped on stage and hugged him, and then melted back into the crowd as the security gave me the evil eye ....

What a talent...... What a man...

"Gonna miss my candyman"

[Flanny]

So many great memories dancing to his music

Had the pleasure of seeing Terry at trentham gardens an icon musically

My condolences and best wishes to all his family

Peace

[Mrtag]

Another Great Icon passes over to that great band in the Heavens...............R.I.P.

[Guest chrislokeh]

Don,t know what to say,Another legend goes to the Soulman in the sky R.I.P.

[nixon]

"1962-1963: At the age of seventeen, one of his visits to Chess Records pays off and Callier signs his first record contract. Four tracks were recorded and one released, a single entitled: Look at me now."

I never investigated the record number or release date of this ("Look At Me Now") and always assumed it was much later. It certainly sounds quite modern and ahead of its time for a 1962/3 recording.

This CADET 7" dates from 1968. It could never have been recorded in '62 imho. In that case Callier would have predated the sound of the whole Chicago soul scene including the Impressions by several years. Also the mature lyrics of the song are quite influenced by mid sixties soul and folk developments. And he does not sound like a 17 year old boy.

My guess is that the story of an early CHESS hit by the name of "Look At Me Now" from 1962 is one of the copy&past-myths of the internet that everyybody took for granted. It might date back from that quite unspecific Guardian article/ interview from 2004 which was then cited on wikipedia, probably allmusic and so on. Or am I wrong? Does anybody actually own or know an original CHESS single by Terry Callier? What are the other 3 tracks from that session? I'm sure Ady Croasdell could help to clear this case as KENT did reissue Callier's recordings and had access to the tapes as far as I know.

Edited October 29, 2012 by nixon

[Guest]

RIP Terry Callier

[Pep]

"1962-1963: At the age of seventeen, one of his visits to Chess Records pays off and Callier signs his first record contract. Four tracks were recorded and one released, a single entitled: Look at me now."

This CADET 7" dates from 1968. It could never have been recorded in '62 imho. In that case Callier would have predated the sound of the whole Chicago soul scene including the Impressions by several years. Also the mature lyrics of the song are quite influenced by mid sixties soul and folk developments. And he does not sound like a 17 year old boy.

My guess is that the story of an early CHESS hit by the name of "Look At Me Now" from 1962 is one of the copy&past-myths of the internet that everyybody took for granted. It might date back from that quite unspecific Guardian article/ interview from 2004 which was then cited on wikipedia, probably allmusic and so on. Or am I wrong? Does anybody actually own or know an original CHESS single by Terry Callier? What are the other 3 tracks from that session? I'm sure Ady Croasdell could help to clear this case as KENT did reissue Callier's recordings and had access to the tapes as far as I know.

Yes, glad you clarified that. My original assumptions and gut feeling were, it seems, correct, but my laziness in failing to research it in detail led me to just believe the accuracy of the article as written. I have always classed it as what would now be called a 'crossover' record... it certainly sounds like one.

An interesting aside about a great singer - songwriter. Anything that keeps him and his music topical is fine with me. May he be remembered forever. For sure his music will keep us soulies dancing for many, many years to come.

Pep

Edited October 29, 2012 by Pep

[Emjaygee]

Passing of a true legend. I only ever saw him from a distance at Glastonbury in 1998, but his time piece album is always one of the first I put on the decks when having a vinyl session at home.

Terrible shame.

[Chalky]

another legend gone. Didn't get the recognition he fully deserved IMO but for me he was a genius.

R.I.P.

[Cunnie]

[Douglaschip]

Terry - R.I.P. another legend passes away - an absolute class act

[Garethx]

Really sad to hear this. Terry Callier was a monumental singer and songwriter whose music has sustained me throughout the greater part of my life. I was lucky enough to meet him on a number of occasions as a fan and he always seemed everything his music suggested: honest, witty, wise and compassionate but with an understatement which belied his huge, huge talent.

It's fairly well documented that he perhaps didn't quite get the breaks in his career which others experienced. He signed to Chess at a time when the great company's powers were beginning to wane. I think the way he saw it was as a position of great privilege to follow in the footsteps of some of the great folk bluesmen on one hand and on the other an opportunity to work with Charles Stepney, a genius of a collaborator with whom he made some truly unforgettable and timeless music.

This was at a time when other African American singers with a broadly similar sensibility, particularly Bill Withers and Richie Havens were crossing over to a far wider (i.e. white) audience. I don't necessarily know if TC would have enjoyed the pressures of being a big star but it certainly seems manifestly unfair to this particular fan that he was to die in relative obscurity in his own country.

Rest in peace Terry.

[Guest CapitolSC]

Sad news indeed.

We were all dancing to Ordinary Joe at the Masters of Soul night in London last thursday

Everyone was clapping and smiling,his legacy will live on

My thoughts go out to his family and friends

Al H

[Dean Rudland]

"1962-1963: At the age of seventeen, one of his visits to Chess Records pays off and Callier signs his first record contract. Four tracks were recorded and one released, a single entitled: Look at me now."

This CADET 7" dates from 1968. It could never have been recorded in '62 imho. In that case Callier would have predated the sound of the whole Chicago soul scene including the Impressions by several years. Also the mature lyrics of the song are quite influenced by mid sixties soul and folk developments. And he does not sound like a 17 year old boy.

My guess is that the story of an early CHESS hit by the name of "Look At Me Now" from 1962 is one of the copy&past-myths of the internet that everyybody took for granted. It might date back from that quite unspecific Guardian article/ interview from 2004 which was then cited on wikipedia, probably allmusic and so on. Or am I wrong? Does anybody actually own or know an original CHESS single by Terry Callier? What are the other 3 tracks from that session? I'm sure Ady Croasdell could help to clear this case as KENT did reissue Callier's recordings and had access to the tapes as far as I know.

All of this biographical information appears on Wikipedia and is rubbish.

Terry was never sure of when 'Look At Me Now' was recorded and if asked would often come out with dates that didn't quite add up, though I never heard or saw him claim that it was recorded before his 'New Folk Sound' album. It was definitely 1968, and couldn't have been before 67 as that is when Stepney did his first work for the label.

When he told me about New Folk Sound he said their was an 18 month to two year gap between recording and release, this has somehow extended to four years on Wikipedia!

I also think it is unlikely that he sang with Curtis and Jerry Butler when he was growing up as Terry was younger than both of them. I'm sure he told me that he grew up in the same area as them, and that they were the leading lights if you were interested in music.

[nixon]

Thanks, Dean! Here's a contemporary review of "Look At Me Now" (Negro Digest, January '69). Actually "...Candy Man" was seen as the plug side!

https://books.google....callier&f=false

[Neil Rushton]

RIP Mr Callier.

I had the privilege of promoting his appearance at Trentham Gardens and he was a total gentleman.

He was also not easily flustered; I was playing records on the night and announced he would be on stage soon when his road manager said she had left the key for the dressing room in the hotel and would have to go back for it and the show would have to be delayed.

This was relayed to me while behind the decks. Exasperated, I left the decks, walked into the adjacent corridor and kicked in the door to the dressing room. Everyone looked stunned - apart from super cool Terry. He just smiled and led everyone into the dressing

room, and soon later hit the stage. A true star.

[Mal C]

He was true great wasn't he. His Time Peace album is pretty much been played every day in our house, such is our love for the songs, especially his version of 'Theme from Spartacus'.

I count myself lucky to have seen him live on that tour, and his presence in this World will be certainly missed.

RIP Terry Callier

Mal.C.

[Dave Pinch]

Yes, glad you clarified that. My original assumptions and gut feeling were, it seems, correct, but my laziness in failing to research it in detail led me to just believe the accuracy of the article as written. I have always classed it as what would now be called a 'crossover' record... it certainly sounds like one.

An interesting aside about a great singer - songwriter. Anything that keeps him and his music topical is fine with me. May he be remembered forever. For sure his music will keep us soulies dancing for many, many years to come.

Pep

he signed to chess then but didnt cut the singles then.. look at me now was recorded and released in 1968

[Hammersoul]

he signed to chess then but didnt cut the singles then.. look at me now was recorded and released in 1968

Spot on fella,that`s what year got on me inner sleeve.

Gotta say another sad lost,gutted to lose 2 of the biggiest influences/fav artists for me in one year(Gil scott Heron being other) . Years ago when i used to have little late night vinyl nights with a bottle of wine or 2. Terry`s lp`s were always pulled out without fail. You could always play especially his Cadet material,whole lp without taking needle off.My thoughts go out to his family/friends.

[Guest]

Just heard this news on the radio this afternoon. Very sad indeed.

RIP a wonderfully talented artist.

[Guest Cate]

I was invited to see him by a friend, a gig around ten years ago at The Wardrobe in Leeds - never heard of him, but the friend said I would be nuts to miss the gig.

What an experience, I had never been to a see a live set where you could hear a pin drop from the moment that he and his band were on stage. He commanded everyone's attention. The management couldn't have been too happy because no one went to the bar for any drinks when he was playing. So glad my friend persuaded me to go. Phenomenal.

[Tomangoes]

Sad news indeed. Saw TC at Leeds central a few year back and was amazed at how packed it was with under 25s really into music.

He was able to captivate a huge following of young and old soul and jazz lovers.

His music will live on for many generations and at least he got to know in our world he was a superstar.

Ed

[boba]

Really sad to hear this. Terry Callier was a monumental singer and songwriter whose music has sustained me throughout the greater part of my life. I was lucky enough to meet him on a number of occasions as a fan and he always seemed everything his music suggested: honest, witty, wise and compassionate but with an understatement which belied his huge, huge talent.

It's fairly well documented that he perhaps didn't quite get the breaks in his career which others experienced. He signed to Chess at a time when the great company's powers were beginning to wane. I think the way he saw it was as a position of great privilege to follow in the footsteps of some of the great folk bluesmen on one hand and on the other an opportunity to work with Charles Stepney, a genius of a collaborator with whom he made some truly unforgettable and timeless music.

This was at a time when other African American singers with a broadly similar sensibility, particularly Bill Withers and Richie Havens were crossing over to a far wider (i.e. white) audience. I don't necessarily know if TC would have enjoyed the pressures of being a big star but it certainly seems manifestly unfair to this particular fan that he was to die in relative obscurity in his own country.

Rest in peace Terry.

I don't necessarily think his music didn't hit because of lack of promotion. The closest comparison is Bill Withers but Callier's music was more sophisticated than Withers'. Similarly, I just compared Jerry Butler's version of "ordinary joe" to Callier's and although Butler's is made much more mainstream sounding, it ultimately is kind of boring. Richie Havens' music was also much more pop.

Fortunately Callier's music wasn't as obscure as some people think -- he was "known" by soul/funk LP collectors for a very long time before he was "discovered" by the northern scene.

[Guest LizM]

RIP Terry Callier x

[Dean Rudland]

I don't necessarily think his music didn't hit because of lack of promotion. The closest comparison is Bill Withers but Callier's music was more sophisticated than Withers'. Similarly, I just compared Jerry Butler's version of "ordinary joe" to Callier's and although Butler's is made much more mainstream sounding, it ultimately is kind of boring. Richie Havens' music was also much more pop.

Fortunately Callier's music wasn't as obscure as some people think -- he was "known" by soul/funk LP collectors for a very long time before he was "discovered" by the northern scene.

I don't think he was Bob.

When he was brought over in 1991 'Look At Me Now' was already big on the northern scene, and 'I Don't Want To See Myself' and 'Ordinary Joe' the same on the acid jazz/ modern soul / funk scene. The main body of his Cadet work was under the radar until Kev Beadle's compilation of those sides in 1992. He was then properly discovered by all sorts of people over the following couple of years, until he appeared at the Jazz Cafe in 1995.

Incidentally he appeared in the UK when he was signed to Elektra in the late 70s as part of a promo show for the label's soul / jazz acts. Does anyone remember this, did anyone see this?

[Garethx]

I agree with you Dean. It's worth bearing in mind that while his most commercially successful period was while signed to Elektra this music had a more temporary feel. While the Elektra tenure produced some great music the tracks with commercial appeal have a less lasting character: "Sign Of The Times" was his only entry onto the R&B singles chart in his career. The late 70s re-cut of "Ordinary Joe" was played in mainstream soul clubs in the UK, but as was the nature of that scene (concentrating on fast turnover of new music every week with no oldies throughput to speak of) only for a matter of weeks.

"Look At Me Now" was collected by Northern Soul fans as a cheap single throughout the seventies, as was "Ordinary Joe" to a lesser extent. What we now think of as Callier's classic period, the three Cadet albums, were almost completely off the radar anywhere until practically the early 90s. While the "Can't Help Myself" album seemed to turn up in deletion lots over here the first two seldom did and were always relatively difficult to source.

While I'm sure certain fans never stopped listening to these albums in isolation from the time of their release, they were not collected as there was really no dance scene on which to play tracks like "Candyman" until the 1990s and no real collective appreciation of Terry Callier as an artist.

I would argue that it was the Modern Northern scene (and particularly Robin Salter) getting hold of "I Don't Want To See Myself" at the tail end of Stafford, start of Rock City (so 1985-ish) which really led to that particular record filtering down to other club scenes via the eventual Acid Jazz issue, which led to a rekindling of interest in TC's career.

Trying to clear a couple of things up from some of the recording points and chronology raised above: "Look At Me Now" was recorded just before it was released late 1968 as mentioned by others, rather than in 1963. The unreleased at the time material from the session includes another version of Candyman knows as "Blues", and a fairly so-so dancer in the vein of Look At Me Now called "You Were Just Fooling Me".

There are two earlier sounding tracks eventually released on an MCA compilation called "Essential: The Best Of Terry Callier on Cadet": these are "Lover", a midtempo ballad reminiscent of the type of material Gene Chandler was recording in the mid 60s, and "Take Your Time", a latin-tinged number. These both would have been quite dated if recorded in 1968. I would speculate they were left in the can from a couple of years earlier. They're both quite nice but as they are as close to mainstream Soul as Callier ever recorded there might have been reluctance on the part of Chess to see any sales or radio potential given Terry's highly distinctive but relatively unmodulated folk-blues voice. I think the company knew they had signed a real talent but at that time no clear vision of how to best harness it. Getting his songs recorded by The Dells, Jerry Butler and Brenda Lea Eager etc. was was probably that next step.

While Jerry Butler's version of "Ordinary Joe" predates Callier's Cadet 45 by two and a half years there is a Callier version released on the "First LIght" album in the 1990s which was laid down some months before Butler's. It's a long, loose and rambling version with an extended Fender Rhodes solo but with the central riff taken by Callier's acoustic guitar (unlike any of the subsequent recordings of the song). It's closest in character to the way he would play it live for the next forty years.

It was maybe fanciful of me to think he could have enjoyed the crossover success of Bill Withers or Richie Havens. While some of his material had a gentle, wistful nature which could have appealed to many markets, a lot of it was a very particular telling of the Black experience of the time. There is a real anger and fire in "Dancing Girl" or "Bowling Green" which maybe wouldn't have played well on even the most adventurous or progressive pop or rock radio stations of the time.

[Ady Croasdell]

I agree with you Dean. It's worth bearing in mind that while his most commercially successful period was while signed to Elektra this music had a more temporary feel. While the Elektra tenure produced some great music the tracks with commercial appeal have a less lasting character: "Sign Of The Times" was his only entry onto the R&B singles chart in his career. The late 70s re-cut of "Ordinary Joe" was played in mainstream soul clubs in the UK, but as was the nature of that scene (concentrating on fast turnover of new music every week with no oldies throughput to speak of) only for a matter of weeks.

"Look At Me Now" was collected by Northern Soul fans as a cheap single throughout the seventies, as was "Ordinary Joe" to a lesser extent. What we now think of as Callier's classic period, the three Cadet albums, were almost completely off the radar anywhere until practically the early 90s. While the "Can't Help Myself" album seemed to turn up in deletion lots over here the first two seldom did and were always relatively difficult to source.

While I'm sure certain fans never stopped listening to these albums in isolation from the time of their release, they were not collected as there was really no dance scene on which to play tracks like "Candyman" until the 1990s and no real collective appreciation of Terry Callier as an artist.

I would argue that it was the Modern Northern scene (and particularly Robin Salter) getting hold of "I Don't Want To See Myself" at the tail end of Stafford, start of Rock City (so 1985-ish) which really led to that particular record filtering down to other club scenes via the eventual Acid Jazz issue, which led to a rekindling of interest in TC's career.

Trying to clear a couple of things up from some of the recording points and chronology raised above: "Look At Me Now" was recorded just before it was released late 1968 as mentioned by others, rather than in 1963. The unreleased at the time material from the session includes another version of Candyman knows as "Blues", and a fairly so-so dancer in the vein of Look At Me Now called "You Were Just Fooling Me".

There are two earlier sounding tracks eventually released on an MCA compilation called "Essential: The Best Of Terry Callier on Cadet": these are "Lover", a midtempo ballad reminiscent of the type of material Gene Chandler was recording in the mid 60s, and "Take Your Time", a latin-tinged number. These both would have been quite dated if recorded in 1968. I would speculate they were left in the can from a couple of years earlier. They're both quite nice but as they are as close to mainstream Soul as Callier ever recorded there might have been reluctance on the part of Chess to see any sales or radio potential given Terry's highly distinctive but relatively unmodulated folk-blues voice. I think the company knew they had signed a real talent but at that time no clear vision of how to best harness it. Getting his songs recorded by The Dells, Jerry Butler and Brenda Lea Eager etc. was was probably that next step.

While Jerry Butler's version of "Ordinary Joe" predates Callier's Cadet 45 by two and a half years there is a Callier version released on the "First LIght" album in the 1990s which was laid down some months before Butler's. It's a long, loose and rambling version with an extended Fender Rhodes solo but with the central riff taken by Callier's acoustic guitar (unlike any of the subsequent recordings of the song). It's closest in character to the way he would play it live for the next forty years.

It was maybe fanciful of me to think he could have enjoyed the crossover success of Bill Withers or Richie Havens. While some of his material had a gentle, wistful nature which could have appealed to many markets, a lot of it was a very particular telling of the Black experience of the time. There is a real anger and fire in "Dancing Girl" or "Bowling Green" which maybe wouldn't have played well on even the most adventurous or progressive pop or rock radio stations of the time.

Both sides of the Look At Me Know 45 and the three unissueds Take Your Time, Lover and You Were Just Foolin were annotated by Rupli as being on the same tape so were probably cut at the same time 1968 even if they sound a bit earlier, odds are they weren't. Interestingly the jazzier vocal to Look At Me Know is not annotated, it's the same backing track so must have been around the same time.

[Garethx]

Thanks for clearing that up Ady.

[Britmusicsoulfan]

I've got a promo copy of Ordinary Joe I've been debating back and forth about keeping. Clean labels, VGish record, plays with background noise on first half, but plays loud.

[Mark Jones]

Was lucky enough to seem hime live..great performer.awful news.

One of my fav tunes

[boba]

Thanks for the info, I didn't realize that the northern scene picked up on his records that early. I just remember all of a sudden a lot of people talking about Callier in the late 90s for some reason.

I never saw Callier play even though he was playing regularly in Chicago by the 90s. The closest I ever got to interacting with him was when I was trying to find the Cascades (Cabrini Green group led by Joe Brackenridge, also recorded as the Von Gayels and Pacesetters) to interview on my radio show. Someone from Cabrini told me that Callier was a member of the Cascades at some point and gave me his number. I tried to contact him but his voicemail / answering machine was somehow set up to only allow you to leave a message a few seconds long. I tried to leave two messages but couldn't get any info in and gave up.

[Roburt]

When I chatted with him at the Jazz Cafe, he talked specifically about playing hoops with Curtis Mayfield in the projects when he was young. He never mentioned singing with Curtis but no doubt he did a bit of harmonizing on the street corner with Curtis & their friends.

Perhaps Boba can confirm if they grew up in the same area.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Roburt

[boba]

When I chatted with him at the Jazz Cafe, he talked specifically about playing hoops with Curtis Mayfield in the projects when he was young. He never mentioned singing with Curtis but no doubt he did a bit of harmonizing on the street corner with Curtis & their friends.

Perhaps Boba can confirm if they grew up in the same area.

yes they both are from Cabrini Green

[Dean Rudland]

yes they both are from Cabrini Green

I got the feeling that he didn't sing with Curtis. I think Curtis was two or three years older than him, and already in the Impressions with a hit single by the time Terry was 13.

[boba]

I got the feeling that he didn't sing with Curtis. I think Curtis was two or three years older than him, and already in the Impressions with a hit single by the time Terry was 13.

yeah I didn't say he sang with the impressions. I said he might have sang with joe brackenridge and the cascades, don't know if he's on one of their (many) recordings. The cascades are probably as old as a group as the impressions though. I have a blurry cascades pic somewhere I can look at to see if he's in that specific lineup.

[boba]

he could have played basketball with him though...

[Roburt]

As everyone knows .... back in the late 50's / early 60's, guys (like Curtis) who were gospel singers in church met up with their mates outside 'church circles' to sing doo wop on street corners.

This was popular as it helped them practice harmony singing & also attracted girls, something all teenage guys liked to do.

If a few 13 year olds had played hoops with younger guys (as Terry told me he did with Curtis), I'm sure that when the older guys started their 'singing practise', the younger kids would also hang around & try to join in (as it made them feel older & more important).

I'm sure the older guys wouldn't want them joining in but it COULD well have happened.

Terry did also tell me that the opportunity to team up with him (at Curtom or when Terry was in Jerry Butler's songwriting workshop team) never presented itself, so he never sang 'professionally' or actually worked in the biz with Curtis

Edited November 1, 2012 by Roburt

[boba]

specifically at cabrini there was an activity room where all the groups practiced btw

[Dean Rudland]

yeah I didn't say he sang with the impressions. I said he might have sang with joe brackenridge and the cascades, don't know if he's on one of their (many) recordings. The cascades are probably as old as a group as the impressions though. I have a blurry cascades pic somewhere I can look at to see if he's in that specific lineup.

Wasn't saying that you did Bob. Just that I never got the feeling when talking with Terry that he had sung, rather than hung with Terry.

[Roburt]

1974 info on Terry ...............

[Roburt]

............ and he gets a very brief mention here .............