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Andreas B

Inspirations Acetate On Ebay

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It was a mate of mine selling it on consignment for another collector/digger. I can imagine those boys are doing summersaults around their record garage right about now! 

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It was a mate of mine selling it on consignment for another collector/digger. I can imagine those boys are doing summersaults around their record garage right about now! 

 

I could make an identical one like that and have it up on Ebay in a month, I can't believe anyone bid on it and the other one, suckers.

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I could make an identical one like that and have it up on Ebay in a month, I can't believe anyone bid on it and the other one, suckers.

 

Yep, for about £25, no thats for a double sided 45  :D

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Well I'd assume it would have credible provenance ?

 

ROD

 

If it had a label on it it would have been useful.  

n.b. I'm not for a second suggesting it's not legit. I'm saying I would never bid on a blank one sided acetate unless it had an alternate version of the track in question.

Edited by Pete S

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I guess it was 4 seconds shorter...not enough of an "alternate mix" for ya Pete?  :P

 

Not enough of an alternative mix for anyone I would have thought - you'd think it would be longer, not shorter, how can an original acetate be shorter than the released version when the two versions are identical?

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Give me mp3 files and Audacity and I make you shorter mixes of any tune any time of the day :wicked:

 

Edit: Not suggesting Inspirations dub isn't legit!

Edited by Benji

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Did it have a $4000 reserve? Just lookign at bid history: prior bid $3499 then two bids by (presumably) same buyer at $4000. I would think the further in time this gets from the original source the harder to establish authenticity. Can think of other 7" I'd rather have for $4000, and this is one of my personal all-time favourite tunes. But as Kev says, happy witht he £50 pink in this case.

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The fact that it's four seconds shorter suggests to me that it wasn't cut at the time the take was done. Instead (and presuming its legitimacy), it would have been cut - still pre-release, mind you - as a file copy. I think the pencil scribbles on the sleeve support this.

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The fact that it's four seconds shorter suggests to me that it wasn't cut at the time the take was done. Instead (and presuming its legitimacy), it would have been cut - still pre-release, mind you - as a file copy. I think the pencil scribbles on the sleeve support this.

 

How hard is it to write on a sleeve though?

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Fully understand what you're saying, Pete. My train of thought is based on this being legit. Of course, without provenance...

 

I've got a one sided metal acetate of Moses Dillard - I'll Pay The Price which I had done 15 years or so ago, I'll I put it in an old sleeve and write some comments on it and put it on Ebay and see what happens.   :thumbsup:

What I'm saying is, if I was thinking of spending money on an acetate - and I know you are an acetate collector - I'd want a label on it or I'd want it to be an alternate cut. 

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i think if the acetate had some definate proof of originality (not just some pencil on an old sleeve) then it would have attracted a lot more bidders and gone for double that,but for me i would always be wondering if the bugga was real or not...i just wouldnt enjoy the record!...shame though.

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I've got a one sided metal acetate of Moses Dillard - I'll Pay The Price which I had done 15 years or so ago, I'll I put it in an old sleeve and write some comments on it and put it on Ebay and see what happens.   :thumbsup:

What I'm saying is, if I was thinking of spending money on an acetate - and I know you are an acetate collector - I'd want a label on it or I'd want it to be an alternate cut. 

 

Completely agree with you, Pete. The seller had a couple of others that also had pencil-annotated sleeves, indicating that they all came from the same source.

 

I'd want to know all about that source before I even considered bidding on this one or the others, and to be honest I was somewhat surprised that the seller didn't offer anything in the way of provenance for any of the discs. Without that, there is only doubt.

 

I'd not be so bothered about the lack of a label if the provenance was solid - I've got a number of acetates without labels. It only means that the lacquer disc is of a type/brand that came label-less when purchased, and someone couldn't be bothered to stick one on when it had been cut (and wrote on the sleeve instead).

 

Who knows, maybe bidders had communicated with the seller before hand, and had the authenticity confirmed. Considering the final price of this one, I'd really be very surprised if they hadn't!

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If Dave Thorley got no reply to a genuine enquiry, that would be concerning...........it maybe the sellers are just unaware of how much detail we require.........and how much value some details may have added..................

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I'm not doubting the authenticity, but to bid it would have been nice to know where it came from, a house clearance, found in a record store, from a musician, publisher etc. I collect acetates, love them, but in all cases if I haven't got them direct from someone involved with the record, I need a pretty detailed background on the disc. I have a fair few blank acetates, but again I know the story on each.

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Someone who knows what he is talking about just wrote to me about this...

 

VERY INTERESTING ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS ON THE INSPIRATIONS ACETATE----I DID A LOT OF BUSINESS WITH JOEY JEFFERSON AND BOUGHT A LOT OF RECORDS FROM HIM(WE SOLD TONS OF RECORDS ON HIS LABELS)---HIS ACTUAL RECORD STORE WAS REALLY BAD STOCK WISE MAINLY USED MAJOR LABEL ALBUMS AND LOOKED MORE LIKE A THRIFT STORE THAN A RECORD STORE-I WAS THERE A FEW TIMES AND HE WAS EASY TO DEAL WITH --I DON'T KNOW IF HE EVER HAD A FILE OF ALL HIS RECORDS-I DOUBT IT-BUT EVEN IF THEY ARE LEGIT --YOU REALL Y NEED A LABEL ON IT TO MAKE IT INTERESTING.--YOU CAN POST THIS ON SOUL -SOURCE IF YOU WANT--REGARDS JOHN ANDERSON

Edited by Pete S

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No doubting that the inspirations and Johnny Handley are rare and desirable 45's ,but personally I don't go for acetates unless they obtain unissued material or a different take .

Also would like to point out / clarify to those who use the term acetate ,somewhat loosely ..it is actually a material and not a term for a carver .

The material was never intended for use by dj's to play out and if done so ,will damage the disc .

My take on these ,is they are no doubt legit ,but I'd wager if you were playing em out ,you'd be fed up answering questions about their validity :(

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The material was never intended for use by dj's to play out and if done so ,will damage the disc .

 

 

Why do people keep saying this?  I've got some that are over 30 years old and they play as good as when they were made.  As long as you don't cue them back and forward, and play on a lightweight arm, they'll last years and years

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Why do people keep saying this? I've got some that are over 30 years old and they play as good as when they were made. As long as you don't cue them back and forward, and play on a lightweight arm, they'll last years and years

Because its fact Pete :)

Styrene is bad enough and at $4000 for the record in question ..keep it and get a carver made is the best compromise .

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Because its fact Pete :)

 

 

 As I just told you I've got acetates 30/40 years old and they play perfectly...so have hundreds of other people...you'll just have to learn to look after your records better Nev...

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As I just told you I've got acetates 30/40 years old and they play perfectly...so have hundreds of other people...you'll just have to learn to look after your records better Nev...

Have it your way Pete ,but for those who like facts and are interested in a bit of education click and read for yourselves ..and draw your own conclusions ??

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetate_disc

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Have it your way Pete ,but for those who like facts and are interested in a bit of education click and read for yourselves ..and draw your own conclusions ??

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetate_disc

Dont believe everything on Wiki Nev (Wiki is not information validated by research and beholden to a particular author)- PS I have to agree with Pete on this one- the testament is the number of Emi discs from the 70s that were played on crappy record players but if you pick them up today they still play just as well. If they were affected by any aerosol  acids or  other chemicals natural or not in the air then they would probably disintegrate. The empircal evidence suggest they do not. I have 3 typical emidiscs from the 70s and they play just as good as they did in 1974 when I got them.

Edited by Ernie Andrews

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Guest sharmo 1

Acetates also smell nice.Have to agree with Pete stored and looked after well they should last as long as any other disc.I read once that the government had massive acetates up to 30 inches they would mark partsof recorded conversations in chalk so they could find information quicky when making investigations , I believe they have 50 inch one's and use whole box's of chalk for referancing Peter99's recordings!!!! just joking there .Recards Mr.R.Blank.

Edited by sharmo 1

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I thought that his The Sunlovers was a different take than the Mutt & Jeff copy. Only way would be back to back on the same turntable to have a comparison. I have a Hal Miller acetate and tbe record, not much difference only a tonal shift.

Edited by Prophonics 2029

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Have it your way Pete ,but for those who like facts and are interested in a bit of education click and read for yourselves ..and draw your own conclusions ??

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetate_disc

 

 

i love facts and i'm more than interested in education however, in this case the fiction wins, like pete and many others i've got acetates that i've had for years and they still play as good as the day i got them, think its time you upgraded that wind up gramaphone of yours nev

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Many have original 60's acetates that have been played and played and played and they are still fine, including top DJs who have played the acetates on all kinds of set ups. If one gets ruined then there must be something seriously wrong with the set up.its. Complete fallacy that they are useless after a few plays.

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Ive loads of original sixties acetates that still play fine...some tend to get  grey stuff on sometimes though.Re this acetate you would be mad to buy it without any sort of provenance... 

Edited by wiggyflat

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I had an Emidisc of Soul Brothers Six - Thank you Baby in the early 70s and I wore it down to the aluminium after about 400 plays. I think that was in about a month :lol:

 

Mental for paying 4 grand for this, I would have expected a lot more info in the listing.....a LOT more!

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I love buying acetates, but I have to say I'm going off them a bit, as someone said above, unless its a radically different mix, or never seen the light as a release I don't know if its worth the trouble, Ive been burnt a couple times for a reasonable amount of money in both cases, which I suspect has soured their mystique...

 

This said, I paid a reasonable amount of money last week for one, which I actually have the release for already, but its a favorite so will make me glow when I pull it out.. :hypo:

 

as for the Inspirations, lot of money for a track with no label init... :unsure:

 

 

Mal

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Many have original 60's acetates that have been played and played and played and they are still fine, including top DJs who have played the acetates on all kinds of set ups. If one gets ruined then there must be something seriously wrong with the set up.its. Complete fallacy that they are useless after a few plays.

 Who said after a few plays ?

   They were never made to be played and played .. they are not demos or promos ..and as i stated ..not to be confused with carvers cut on vinyl or other similar plastic or polyurathane ,synthetic material ..

 

  I've heard many people on the soul scene use the tern "Acetate" and infact they have carvers with white labels and penned in details ..

 Maybe it makes people feel better thinking they have something authentic ,but actually don't !

 

   If i  paid $4000 for this or same amount for an acetate ,i would still get a carver cut and preserve it ,but hey ho that's my prerogative

P.s   STYRENE is also a wonderful material if cared for with  the T.L.C previously mentioned   :)

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Not you, did I quote you? No didn't think so.

I think most of us know the difference between an acetate and a carver, besides none of us are talking about carvers just you :rollseyes: again i think we all know they aren't a promo or a demo disc. Acetates are for reference, to hear how a take sounds, they might not have been intended to be used for 30 plus years but many have been and still are being used, proper authentic metal acetates.

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My understanding is that acetates are cut which get negatives made, which are in turn used for the actual vinyl pressing run. I think these copies are not made to be played and this is where the stuff about not playing them comes from.

I also believe the sound deteriorates. Slightly. On the top end after a few plays. I think after this initial deterioration, they pretty much stabilise and like most posters on this thread, i've got 50 year old discs which play fine and continue to do so...

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My understanding is that acetates are cut which get negatives made, which are in turn used for the actual vinyl pressing run. I think these copies are not made to be played and this is where the stuff about not playing them comes from.I also believe the sound deteriorates.

There is a couple of videos showing the whole process on YouTube, one with Ron Murphy and he shows what the they do with the acetates etc, electroplating and making the stampers.

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Have to agree on acetates, the laquer may be very fragile, and prone to damage but if looked after properly hundreds and hundreds of plays you'll get out of them if you look after them.....but not as enduring as say a vinyl record which should last forever.

Edited by Steve G

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I dropped one of mine and put a dink/bend in it...hit it with the flat of an hammer - plays fine.

 

They are quite dogged and not as fragile as you'd think.

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I dropped one of mine and put a dink/bend in it...hit it with the flat of an hammer - plays fine.

 

They are quite dogged and not as fragile as you'd think.

There you see........cant do that with styrene!  :lol:

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- you'd think it would be longer, not shorter, how can an original acetate be shorter than the released version when the two versions are identical?

Pre PC's, digital files, restoration software etc, there were quite a few acetates and bootlegs that were shorter than the original (vinyl) release about. I always assumed that on the last few seconds of the record, there were far too many crackles and pops not to give the game away and hence were just faded out short e.g. Kenni Smith

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