Poll: Bbc Culture Show - Northern Soul - Your Take ?

[Steve G]

Exactly, what used to be such an exciting scene has now mainly been taken over  the normals.   7200 people at a weekender doesn't say "alternative" anymore.  I didn't and still don't want to be like anybody else. They can keep their "faith" and stick it where the sun doesn't shine as far as I'm concerned. I'll stay at home and listen to my new Curtis Mayfield lp.

 

Quite. I was seriously impressed by the number at Butlins, and looked at some of the 7,200 who were posting on FB about the weekender. There were some people from these parts (which is not a soul area by any stretch) posting up "can't wait for a weekend of NS" etc. Funny thing is I have never seen them at a local soul night, a Niter, a London event, or even the local Mod do's which I have been to and occasionally D.J at.

 

It's like "Who are these people?". Another parallel universe.....It's certainly not underground....

Edited October 1, 2013 by Steve G

[Pete S]

Quite. I was seriously impressed by the number at Butlins, and looked at some of the 7,200 who were posting on FB about the weekender. There were some people from these parts (which is not a soul area by any stretch) posting up "can't wait for a weekend of NS" etc. Funny thing is I have never seen them at a local soul night, a Niter, a London event, or even the local Mod do's which I have been to and occasionally D.J at.

 

It's like "Who are these people?". Another parallel universe.....It's certainly not underground....

 

I've got a friend, grew up with him from the age of 4, like most of us when we 15 he dabbled in NS, says he went to Wigan once (I can't prove that he did or didn't but he didn't come with the rest of us) and anyway I hadn't seen him since about 1980 until 6 years back when he got in touch out of the blue, anyway him and his missus (never on the scene) go to one or two weekenders a year and they love it.  They never go to and have never been to any soul nights or allnighters, just these weekenders.  So there you go Steve, those are the people we never see anywhere else, it's like a weekend break for them.

[Guest Byrney]

I think you're right Gogs on a lot of things here. The friendship and camarardarie (?!!!) has always been there and the crowd always accepting of people who couldn't dance or didn't look like soulies, if you 'got' the music, you belonged, and it didn't matter what other people said or thought as you felt proud to be part of this underground cool movement. The problem is now, all these years later, as other posters on here have pointed out, the coolness has gone and we are now a huge laughing stock for a bewildered public who think they now understand what the Northern Soul scene is. A lot of us don't want to be associated with that view of what the scene is. It's never been about tat merchandise, line dancing steps by numbers or a ridiculous uniform and I don't like the fact that the once private, cool and secret scene image has been hijacked and booted out of the window by people who don't even care.

I just can't get my swede round the fact that people don't understand our position and why we might feel this way. We're not being snide - it's exactly as Jordi describes, for me any roads.

[Campagnolo 1]

Overall not bad., the presenter was very good not patronising. My only winge was when the Scottish lass said Pauls spin was quite good even though he had the "WRONG" shoes on. The shoes were all leather with leather soles.????

I can only assume she got so used to seeing Adidas at Wigan she thinks they are dancing shoes.???

[Campagnolo 1]

Very good observation by me mate Dave...

 

"Northern soul fans are distinguishable by their tattoos, cloth badges and faces that say "I spent the 1970s doing spins and drops to driving American soul records in sprung Northern ballrooms between the hours of 2am and 8am"

 

That is a quote from the Radio Times from tonights Culture Show.

 

David Abbott

Very good observation by me mate Dave...

Bollocks. I aint got any tattoos & badges are for children (Im into soul music look at me !!!)I,ts on the "INSIDE" that counts.!!imo.?

 

"Northern soul fans are distinguishable by their tattoos, cloth badges and faces that say "I spent the 1970s doing spins and drops to driving American soul records in sprung Northern ballrooms between the hours of 2am and 8am"

 

That is a quote from the Radio Times from tonights Culture Show.

 

David Abbott

Very good observation by me mate Dave...

 

"Northern soul fans are distinguishable by their tattoos, cloth badges and faces that say "I spent the 1970s doing spins and drops to driving American soul records in sprung Northern ballrooms between the hours of 2am and 8am"

 

That is a quote from the Radio Times from tonights Culture Show.

 

David Abbott

[Guest Brett F]

Am I the only one , but when certain members post one thousand word replies... I never read them, surely a good functioning forum has to have members posting in short, sharp snappy replies !!

Ps the fancy dress soul scene deserves all it gets..

Edited October 1, 2013 by Brett F

[Steve G]

Ps the fancy dress soul scene deserves all it gets..

 

Hi Brett, if you look at the Butlins weekender page on FB you'll see that many people enjoyed themselves there and had a good time....some complained about n/s dancing lessons others thought them a good idea, a few complained about a sticky dancefloor, and a couple complained about n/s being played off CDs.....

 

I keep saying it, but "this thing of ours" is totally mainstream!

 

KTF buddy O'Keh? "It'll never be over" eh! etc etc...

Edited October 1, 2013 by Steve G

[Anais nin Carms]

He wasn't just playing up to the cameras either.  He was just the same on Saturday night at Blackburn.

That lad has always shown that passion , I have watched him dance a few times .and there are others like him of that age. You also see the same passion in many of the older generation , however its much more impressionable watching young legs

 

I personally would have liked some Black bee footage in that short film . Black bee very much portrays new blood , guys and girls that are just coming in off the streets aged between 18- 25 who you see returning the following month because the beat is so hard not to come back to even though it it came into being before many of them were born . That is INSPIRING to me and an image that will inspire the younger elements to carry the genre forward .  I think the release of the film will achieve that too as it has been beautifully orchestrated judging by the clips that I have seen.

 

I will say of today's growing culture I have experienced the same vibe at  "Empty bottles" in Leeds this club had the same Black bee growth vibe , where rooms are much more intimate and all aspects of the soul spectrum are explored and received with open arms  ...that's my personal vision of the culture today and where its heading ... and what I find exciting about it .

 

But like many have said to me who have joined me in a reasoned debate ... half an hour is just not enough , to explore the soul scenes complexity in 2013 you would need at least a series .

 

You could dedicate an hour at least to cover record collecting today how we source and debate and still spend our disposal income on that round piece of plastic

 

If the culture shows aim was to promote the release of the film in a good way , it did , If it aimed to show us the presenters personal journey with revisiting his passion ..it did ... If its aim was to show us a true reflection of what the whole scene is about today... it failed in my view. If it portrayed the roots of Northern soul in a good light ...well I would have to decline even trying to comment on that as I don't have the history to confirm its accuracy one way or another .

Edited October 1, 2013 by Anais nin Carms

[Sooty]

Am I the only one , but when certain members post one thousand word replies... I never read them, surely a good functioning forum has to have members posting in short, sharp snappy replies !!

Ps the fancy dress soul scene deserves all it gets..

 

A 121 BF.....AFAIK M8...B4 TXT...WC? ROLF....DID WOT???...WTF...OMG!!! NUFF!! TBC...TOM...! NO ROLF OR LOL BTW!..... CID STR8 GBH L8R ...PM ME PM OK!x

KTF

OVO

 

@@

~

L

S

X

 

...but not everyone can understand the detail Brett....!x

[Guest Gogs]

Exactly, what used to be such an exciting scene has now mainly been taken over  the normals.   7200 people at a weekender doesn't say "alternative" anymore.  I didn't and still don't want to be like anybody else. They can keep their "faith" and stick it where the sun doesn't shine as far as I'm concerned. I'll stay at home and listen to my new Curtis Mayfield lp.

I'm not fussy how many "normals" "handbaggers" are anywhere, as long as i can hear the music and try to dance to it (i'm definitely not one off the best but i do try) i will be happy. If the scene has become mainstream How does that stop you listening to the tracks played, or dancing to them. Do you only think that it was "cool" because it was "underground" or like me did you get into it for the love of the music????

[corby john]

I'm not fussy how many "normals" "handbaggers" are anywhere, as long as i can hear the music and try to dance to it (i'm definitely not one off the best but i do try) i will be happy. If the scene has become mainstream How does that stop you listening to the tracks played, or dancing to them. Do you only think that it was "cool" because it was "underground" or like me did you get into it for the love of the music????

That's all well and good......for you.......however, the more of those types you mention that keep attending, the more likely it is that you will keep hearing the same old tunes & then possibly stop dancing to them? I got into it for the love of the music too........however i'm sick of hearing the same old tunes time & time again. I don't care how many "Normals" etc wish to attend.....as long as the Dj's stop pandering to their usual requests & look beyond the top 500 for inspiration. Wherever you go ........enjoy !!!

[Chalky]

I'm not fussy how many "normals" "handbaggers" are anywhere, as long as i can hear the music and try to dance to it (i'm definitely not one off the best but i do try) i will be happy. If the scene has become mainstream How does that stop you listening to the tracks played, or dancing to them. Do you only think that it was "cool" because it was "underground" or like me did you get into it for the love of the music????

The fact the scene was underground and was different to what the mainstream were getting up to was one of the appealing aspects of traveling hundreds of miles every week. It is a cult scene or was, it isn't what every one else does. The fact your work colleagues couldn't understand or get what we were doing made you feel better than them. It was cool because it was underground, we were different to everyone else. That was the whole point of travelling that and to listen to music you couldn't hear at home. Yes it is the love of the music above all else but that is there whether I or we travel to a venue or stop at home.

The wearing of fashion items from a period that covered just a couple of years, and some of the worse fashion at that isn't cool. It isn't how the vast majority of us behave but it is how we are being perceived, that is what irks so many. Why can't people understand that?

Why can't documentaries show the scene for what it is rather than keep focusing on 1977 and people trying to recreate 1977?

[Steve G]

...I still think you are fighting an old battle. Hello, we lost years ago! The coolness, underground mystique (now there's a record to get stuck in to on the dancefloor!!) has all gone from the mainstream NS scene. It's all about that 1970's period for the majority of people. As long as the music is something they know, nothing else matters. 

 

Persionally I'd never be seen dead at a Butlins Skeggy event. Whilst I am amazed that they got 7,000 in, it's just a commercial moneymaker like a mini V-Festival. Even worse now since some arguments have broken out between the NS scene people and the Civilians who found themselves wrapped up in it all....

 

A: "We loved it was brilliant!!"

B: "Them NS people are so rude! They pushed us off the dancefloor"

C: "No love you must understand us soulies are passionate about our music. When we hear "Ski-ing in the snow" or "Night owl" we just got to dance"

B: "You are all very rude can't we enjoy the music too without being pushed about?"

D: "No duck you got it wrong, soulies are all very nice friendly people, anyway why come to Skeggy when it's billed as a NS event?"

B: "We'll go to Butlins when we like thank you!"

 

etc etc.

 

It's all there to see.....a three ringed NS circus!  

 

The Teddy Boy scene never got this commercial!!!    But you ain't ever gonna change it now folks....

[TheBigO]

Wise words as usual Steve you silver haired smooth talking devil you  On the subject of a proper in-depth look at the scene from it's birth to present day I read that Elaine is looking into this as her next project, however she may well want to reconsider after seeing the war of words a pair of baggies and a circle skirt has ignited lol  ! I've faith in her that if she does go ahead it will be an excellent documentary as she is as passionate about the scene and the music as we all are, whatever we feel comfortable dancing in.

[Sooty]

"Why can't documentaries show the scene for what it is rather than keep focusing on 1977 and people trying to recreate 1977?"

 

On this occasion Chalky.....the program was highlighting the Wigan Anniversary....so nostalgia....and catching up with it was what it was about. I never went to any proper doo in the 70;s....except me School Youth Club on a Friday night! I saw folk there aged 15/6...Mick Hutt...Dave Warman....Alan Warboys....hold alls put in corner...chewing gum engaged...all sliding along the floor in their bags....just like as if they were at Wigan i'm sure!x I watched them and practisied in me bedroom and went on to'teach' some of the moves to my mates in kids homes when taking me mates vinyl back with me to spin in the gym!! It happened everywhere! Many of us probably had Tartan on their jeans bottoms and if lucky down the seams a few years earlier as The Bay City Rollers stormed the charts....I did as an influential 12 year old...!x I also got a 2nd hand Crombie aged 13.....too small for me really....erm...it was a girls one too buttoned up their side.....but I was happy with it at the time...!x So...we all have 'things'...skeletons....embarrassing eras....in our lives.....or which could appear 'silly' out of context. However.....I don't feel the National psyche is full of visions as shown on this show....nope....I think they realise there are 'extremists' in all things.....and yes...the Scene has always attracted such characters....and rightly so!x

 

Solution to improve things and present the current scene fairlly? Let's make a film/doc to capture today's real scene and it's machinations...sects and sounds! Why not? Easy done and we'd get it 'placed' on National telly.....no probs! Up for it anyone?x

 

LUV
SOOTY
X
 

[Daved]

Quite. I was seriously impressed by the number at Butlins, and looked at some of the 7,200 who were posting on FB about the weekender. There were some people from these parts (which is not a soul area by any stretch) posting up "can't wait for a weekend of NS" etc. Funny thing is I have never seen them at a local soul night, a Niter, a London event, or even the local Mod do's which I have been to and occasionally D.J at.

 

It's like "Who are these people?". Another parallel universe.....It's certainly not underground....

It's like when Palace get to Wembley Steve

[Pete S]

Sorry but have none of you ever heard of a project called "The Strange World Of Northern Soul"?  If you remove all of the artists footage, you are left with a really comprehensive documentary of the entire history of the scene, with 99% of it's movers and shakers interviewed.  This was really well researched, important people in NS history were interviewed, and although it does speed up when it comes to post Wigan, there's still no other place where you'll find interviews with DJ's, promotors, punters, record finders and so on.  Seriously - this is the best.

[Sooty]

It's like when Palace get to Wembley Steve

...hehe....bang on Daved!!!x Cambridge United have a regular 2.000 since dropping into the Conference over the past 10 years. We've been to Wembley twice on the trot during those years....24,000 and 22.000 tickets sold to 'CUFC' fans for the occasion!!! I did the pre match party's for them all at a huge venue near Wembley! I knew many in the room and they were out for 'the craic'....! As someone who had their eye on maximising the potential income for the club....I shook every one of their hands and welcomed them as 'hard core' from the decks....! They've never been seen since....altho'....we had 3,700 for a home game tott clash last Tuesday evening....! So...they are out there when motivated to be 'active'...I am forever hopeful.....!x

@@

~

 

LUV

SOOTY

X

Edited October 2, 2013 by SOOTY

[Sooty]

Sorry but have none of you ever heard of a project called "The Strange World Of Northern Soul"?  If you remove all of the artists footage, you are left with a really comprehensive documentary of the entire history of the scene, with 99% of it's movers and shakers interviewed.  This was really well researched, important people in NS history were interviewed, and although it does speed up when it comes to post Wigan, there's still no other place where you'll find interviews with DJ's, promotors, punters, record finders and so on.  Seriously - this is the best.

 

Was that Ian's documentary/serial Pete?? I saw bits of summink in the late 90's on video....or perhaps when I did the 'Togetherness' documentary...it perhaps was about then??? 2002/3? If so...I know what you mean...when 're-edited' to get the 'cream'...X However.....i'm thinking more of a current 'fly documentary'...presenting the scene as folk likewatching things these days...'reality TV'....and it could be done 'tastefully' with cred....leaving qdos for the scene...methinks!x

 

LUV

SOOTY

X

[TheBigO]

Sorry but have none of you ever heard of a project called "The Strange World Of Northern Soul"?  If you remove all of the artists footage, you are left with a really comprehensive documentary of the entire history of the scene, with 99% of it's movers and shakers interviewed.  This was really well researched, important people in NS history were interviewed, and although it does speed up when it comes to post Wigan, there's still no other place where you'll find interviews with DJ's, promotors, punters, record finders and so on.  Seriously - this is the best.

I'd forgotten that one Pete but your right, DOH! Probably because of the 'interesting' videos of our heroes singing 

[Steve G]

Sorry but have none of you ever heard of a project called "The Strange World Of Northern Soul"?  If you remove all of the artists footage, you are left with a really comprehensive documentary of the entire history of the scene, with 99% of it's movers and shakers interviewed.  This was really well researched, important people in NS history were interviewed, and although it does speed up when it comes to post Wigan, there's still no other place where you'll find interviews with DJ's, promotors, punters, record finders and so on.  Seriously - this is the best.

 

I agree and putting aside the whiff of contrvoversy that follows Ian about, there is a wealth of fascinating stuff on that DVD set. It wasn't always balanced but it is the best we have by a long way. And in fairness while I don't always agree with Ian, he isn't wedded to the nostalgia thing. But...SWONS was 10-12 years ago now, and there are new and important turns and developments since then - Lifeline, funky northern, the growth of the scene outside the UK, the effect of the internet / Ebay etc.  

Edited October 2, 2013 by Steve G

[Winnie :-)]

The fact the scene was underground and was different to what the mainstream were getting up to was one of the appealing aspects of traveling hundreds of miles every week. It is a cult scene or was, it isn't what every one else does. The fact your work colleagues couldn't understand or get what we were doing made you feel better than them. It was cool because it was underground, we were different to everyone else. That was the whole point of travelling that and to listen to music you couldn't hear at home. Yes it is the love of the music above all else but that is there whether I or we travel to a venue or stop at home.

The wearing of fashion items from a period that covered just a couple of years, and some of the worse fashion at that isn't cool. It isn't how the vast majority of us behave but it is how we are being perceived, that is what irks so many. Why can't people understand that?

Why can't documentaries show the scene for what it is rather than keep focusing on 1977 and people trying to recreate 1977?

The documentaries are showing the scene for what it is, what's obviously annoying the majority on Source is that they focus on the mainstream aspect rather than the pockets of resistance. Whilst I agree there are two separate scenes, it seems ridiculous not to recognise that they are related however distant people think the lineage is. I didn't go to the Butlins weekender, but are we seriously suggesting that they didn't play a single quality record there, are we seriously suggesting that out of the 7000 attendees not one of them will progress to wanting to hear something a little different? 

 

Instead of alienating them by constantly criticising where they go, what they wear, and what they're listening to, how about embracing their love of soul music and making them feel that they'd be welcome at a 'rare' event. Too many rules and regulations will eventually kill any hope of new blood and new music filtering through. Chalky, this reply isn't aimed directly at you buddy, just attached to one of your posts. I realise it's not a popular view, but if we are going to leave some sort of musical legacy, then in my view we have to be a little less up our own arses. 

[Steve L]

I'm not fussy how many "normals" "handbaggers" are anywhere, as long as i can hear the music and try to dance to it (i'm definitely not one off the best but i do try) i will be happy. If the scene has become mainstream How does that stop you listening to the tracks played, or dancing to them. Do you only think that it was "cool" because it was "underground" or like me did you get into it for the love of the music????

 

Well I am and your argument about being either cool or loving the music doesnt stack up.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Steve L

[Steve L]

Am I the only one , but when certain members post one thousand word replies... I never read them, surely a good functioning forum has to have members posting in short, sharp snappy replies !!

Ps the fancy dress soul scene deserves all it gets..

 

Me too fast forward straight past em every time

[Winnie :-)]

I agree and putting aside the whiff of contrvoversy that follows Ian about, there is a wealth of fascinating stuff on that DVD set. It wasn't always balanced but it is the best we have by a long way. And in fairness while I don't always agree with Ian, he isn't wedded to the nostalgia thing. But...SWONS was 10-12 years ago now, and there are new and important turns and developments since then - Lifeline, funky northern, the growth of the scene outside the UK, the effect of the internet / Ebay etc.  

Steve,

 

I'm not trying to blow your trumpet for you, but you have what I consider an encyclopaedic knowledge of northern, so how many 'new to your ears' records would you estimate you hear per week/month or over a year, and where do you hear them. Is it at an event or at home. Let me make it clear this is NOT a dig at you or anybody else, what I'm trying to establish is that you're the kind of soul fan, who'll actually listen or research into something new and your like is few and far between. Sorry this reply isn't attached to a relevant post to my question 

[Citizen P]

The documentaries are showing the scene for what it is, what's obviously annoying the majority on Source is that they focus on the mainstream aspect rather than the pockets of resistance. Whilst I agree there are two separate scenes, it seems ridiculous not to recognise that they are related however distant people think the lineage is. I didn't go to the Butlins weekender, but are we seriously suggesting that they didn't play a single quality record there, are we seriously suggesting that out of the 7000 attendees not one of them will progress to wanting to hear something a little different? 

 

Instead of alienating them by constantly criticising where they go, what they wear, and what they're listening to, how about embracing their love of soul music and making them feel that they'd be welcome at a 'rare' event. Too many rules and regulations will eventually kill any hope of new blood and new music filtering through. Chalky, this reply isn't aimed directly at you buddy, just attached to one of your posts. I realise it's not a popular view, but if we are going to leave some sort of musical legacy, then in my view we have to be a little less up our own arses. 

 

I am sure that many would be welcome at the "rarer" nights, but, would they be prepared to accept something different from their imprinted soundtrack.??

[Winnie :-)]

I am sure that many would be welcome at the "rarer" nights, but, would they be prepared to accept something different from their imprinted soundtrack.??

Would they? Read back through the thread and tell me if you were in their position whether you'd feel welcome or not.

[Winnie :-)]

The general consensus on the retro side of this thread appears to be that the mainstream is trying to recreate the seventies. The ethic of the scene in the seventies was to hear and find new music, which is what most appear to want to be happening now, so my question is, aren't both sides effectively guilty of trying to recreate their youth? 

[Pete S]

Would they? Read back through the thread and tell me if you were in their position whether you'd feel welcome or not.

 

If they turned up in retro gear thinking they're going to get a circle of people surrounding them while they do their acrobatic dancing, then no they would probably be made to feel a little unwelcome (or totally blanked maybe).  If they just turned up and took it for what it is, then of course they'd be made welcome.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Pete S

[TheBigO]

Maybe we should ask this guy to do a doc as I think his Funk scene one on youtube is excellent!

 

[Winnie :-)]

If they turned up in retro gear thinking they're going to get a circle of people surrounding them while they do their acrobatic dancing, then no they would probably be made to feel a little unwelcome.  If they just turned up and took it for what it is, then of course they'd be made welcome.

Pete be honest when was the last time you saw a group of people turn up at a do expecting to have a circle formed round them, whilst they flick-flacked across the floor? Doesn't happen, apart from at the dance competition at weekenders. 

[Citizen P]

If they turned up in retro gear thinking they're going to get a circle of people surrounding them while they do their acrobatic dancing, then no they would probably be made to feel a little unwelcome.  If they just turned up and took it for what it is, then of course they'd be made welcome.

 

 

I concur..

 

We are all guilty of judging the book by it's cover, and I've seen the odd time when some of the uniformed faithful arrive and thinking "Whoops, they're not going to enjoy this" and being pleasantly surprised....

 

I have also seen the opposite...play summat we know..wade in the water ..anything......

[Sooty]

"But...SWONS was 10-12 years ago now, and there are new and important turns and developments since then - Lifeline, funky northern, the growth of the scene outside the UK, the effect of the internet / Ebay etc.."

 

 As i've been 'away' for the past 10 years and don't know wots wot as such....to be honest Steve G....when reviewing the final edit of the Togetherness Documentary again last night and soon to be released.....I find after reading this forum over the past 3/4 months....that not much has changed since 10 years ago!x Maybe we made a 'timeless' film...like perhaps Ian's SWONS is in parts....or...the scene hasn't moved on...or perhaps it is part of it...?...the moans/groans about Venues...music policy....DJs/DJ sets....oldies/newies camps....midtempo/stomper preferences are all still there if one looks or reads enuff! Surely those debates/moans/efforts were the same back in the day?!x The one thing I have noticed 'new' in the past 10 years of not listening to owt 'new' until 2 years ago.....is the amount of R&B/Early....and Funky stuff about now...much of which I like!x Will 'old school' have the same approach to 'new' stuff??? Back in the 90's...some did...some didn't....some moaned...some like me....embraced it all!x The Butlin crew will fit into any of those categories.....and as many in here are 'hard core' as such.....the focus should be on doing YOUR thing...as you always have....and the 'casuals'....will follow...or not...I found!x The tail shouldn't wag the dog.....!x From what i read..the characters....and the ambience as read in here about gigs....are still 'kicking' as they always have....I reckon!x

 

LUV
SOOTY
X

Edited October 2, 2013 by SOOTY

[Pete S]

Pete be honest when was the last time you saw a group of people turn up at a do expecting to have a circle formed round them, whilst they flick-flacked across the floor? Doesn't happen, apart from at the dance competition at weekenders. 

 

That was just an extreme example.  It's just the same as when any new group joins in or tries to join in an existing one, be respectful, find out how it all operates in in no time you'll be in.

[Steve L]

...I still think you are fighting an old battle. Hello, we lost years ago! The coolness, underground mystique (now there's a record to get stuck in to on the dancefloor!!) has all gone from the mainstream NS scene. It's all about that 1970's period for the majority of people. As long as the music is something they know, nothing else matters. 

 

Persionally I'd never be seen dead at a Butlins Skeggy event. Whilst I am amazed that they got 7,000 in, it's just a commercial moneymaker like a mini V-Festival. Even worse now since some arguments have broken out between the NS scene people and the Civilians who found themselves wrapped up in it all....

 

A: "We loved it was brilliant!!"

B: "Them NS people are so rude! They pushed us off the dancefloor"

C: "No love you must understand us soulies are passionate about our music. When we hear "Ski-ing in the snow" or "Night owl" we just got to dance"

B: "You are all very rude can't we enjoy the music too without being pushed about?"

D: "No duck you got it wrong, soulies are all very nice friendly people, anyway why come to Skeggy when it's billed as a NS event?"

B: "We'll go to Butlins when we like thank you!"

 

etc etc.

 

It's all there to see.....a three ringed NS circus!  

 

The Teddy Boy scene never got this commercial!!!    But you ain't ever gonna change it now folks....

 

Just had a peep at this, oh dear   It shows you what we're up against.

Made me laugh when someone made a comment about fancy dress, oh the irony

[Winnie :-)]

That was just an extreme example.  It's just the same as when any new group joins in or tries to join in an existing one, be respectful, find out how it all operates in in no time you'll be in.

No point in going back on forth on this, but I will ask you don't you think the existing group also has an obligation to be respectful? As a 'Newbie' wouldn't I find that more appealing and therefore be able to integrate more easily? Sorry but the bulk of this thread regarding the retro element doesn't give that impression, not to me anyway.

[Wiggyflat]

Is this programme the first serious documentary to view northern soul as a retro scene.Thinking about previous documentaries....This England...of its time.Out On The Floor...this was a play from 79 80 I think with a Grapevine soundtrack....of its time.Chasing Rainbows...of its time.Hearsay....Morecambe niter...people in 80s fashions and John Vincent talking about finding new records...of its time .Whistle Test ...Blackburn...current fashions with a few mods and Bud Harper ..Dr Love and Magic touch along with Ady talking about finding new records...Network 7 Keb in loose trousers but not baggies dancing to Sweet Darlin...but of its time.I have posted before about Frank Elson in 77 talking about the Teds and how the scene would be viewed as a retro joke scene unless the baggies and oldies were dropped.I wonder how this doc will look in years to come.

[Back Street Blue]

What I don't understand is demands to maintain exclusivity for what is claimed to be an exclusive, cool underground scene........but complaints from those who profess to be on that scene of a lack of exposure of their music at the big "Divvy"events, which in the next breath get slagged for being populated by "the great unwashed", "divs" and "returnees"?

 

Why would you want exposure of the underground scene on prime time TV if you want to keep it cool and exclusive?

 

Bit of a contradiction really, as is levelling a tirade of insults at people from other parts of the scene and then complaining when those under attack retort with the label "chin strokers".

 

End of the day, there are several different aspects of the scene all doing their own thing and evolving in different directions, regardless of how you try to dictate how any of them should develop.

[Sooty]

An excellent example of leading folk to 'the light' is Sean Chapman!x He'd left the scene since it's hey days of the 70's/80#s. He came to a gig of mine around '94ish.....got 'the buzz' on the 'oldies' I was playing and was at our gigs! He went mad for it all again! That was 20 years ago...! He sterted collecting all the '500' again! I actually remember him suggesting some of my tunes...'Cards on The Table'...King Coleman.....Ricjard berry....wasn't 'Northern' to him at the time......as he wos sweating after dancing to some 'pop' a minute ago....!!!x Then...10 years later...or 10 years ago....he announced to me on film as an update that he had got rid of most of those 'obvious' tunes now...and focused on....whatever....!!! So...he would have been at Butlins 20 years ago....and LAPPED it up!x It needed a 'friendship' to make it into more.....which the majority I read are grateful for based on Seans efforts and actions over them 20 years!x We all gotta start somewhere....it's where your 'lead' too that counts....i've found!x

 

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SOOTY
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[Pete S]

No point in going back on forth on this, but I will ask you don't you think the existing group also has an obligation to be respectful? As a 'Newbie' wouldn't I find that more appealing and therefore be able to integrate more easily? Sorry but the bulk of this thread regarding the retro element doesn't give that impression, not to me anyway.

 

They / we are already respectful and welcoming.  What do you want us to do,  bow down as the new people enter the room?

[Winnie :-)]

They / we are already respectful and welcoming.  What do you want us to do,  bow down as the new people enter the room?

God forbid anybody says something in person, not when they can type 

[Wiggyflat]

Frank Elson ....the northern soul scenes very own Nostradamus.

[Citizen P]

They / we are already respectful and welcoming.  What do you want us to do,  bow down as the new people enter the room?

 

 

 

Actually, perhaps the time has arrived for us to return to ethics and morals of the early '70s scene.

 

A time when any newcomer or unknown face turned up they were welcomed with the 1000 yard stare, and were lucky to go home in the clothes they stood up in....

[Pete S]

God forbid anybody says something in person, not when they can type 

 

That's not an answer to a question, don't bother replying if you're just out to score cheap points.

[Winnie :-)]

That's not an answer to a question, don't bother replying if you're just out to score cheap points.

Back to telling people when they can and can't reply then Pete, just keep forgetting how influential you think you are. You know the score, not happy complain to a moderator, you've done it plenty of times before

[Pete S]

 

Actually, perhaps the time has arrived for us to return to ethics and morals of the early '70s scene.

 

A time when any newcomer or unknown face turned up they were welcomed with the 1000 yard stare, and were lucky to go home in the clothes they stood up in....

 

Can't believe people are inventing problems which don't exist.  Because some people on this thread don't enjoy seeing the scene thought of as retro, tothers try to twist it to look like everyone dislikes the retro people and the newcomers.  What utter b*llocks. Just pack it in, nobody has ever said ANY people aren't welcome.

[Pete S]

Back to telling people when they can and can't reply then Pete, just keep forgetting how influential you think you are. You know the score, not happy complain to a moderator, you've done it plenty of times before

 

Complain about what Mr PotKettleBlack?

[Guest Byrney]

The general consensus on the retro side of this thread appears to be that the mainstream is trying to recreate the seventies. The ethic of the scene in the seventies was to hear and find new music, which is what most appear to want to be happening now, so my question is, aren't both sides effectively guilty of trying to recreate their youth? 

In my view that's a ridiculous comparison. By sticking to principles of a scene forged from The 60s, 70s, 80s, 90, and for some in the noughties is reliving ones youth? There's a difference between listening only to records from your youth and dressing as you did for that short period and adhering to a set of principles. It's comparing apples to oranges - no apples and chopped liver.

[Winnie :-)]

Complain about what Mr PotKettleBlack?

Who knows Pete, you're the one reading things into posts

[Reg]

 

Actually, perhaps the time has arrived for us to return to ethics and morals of the early '70s scene.

 

A time when any newcomer or unknown face turned up they were welcomed with the 1000 yard stare, and were lucky to go home in the clothes they stood up in....

Haha, so true even in the mid 80s when I first started going out to allniters  (a long time ago when I was a young little mod). I was absolutely not accepted by a lot of people-my friend and I got quite a lot of stick from some of the people on the scene, It was only that we were kind of adopted by a slightly younger crowd that we ever dared go out to an allniter again after a couple of horrendous nights at the Carousel club in Manchester.    People are a lot more friendly these days