Spencer Wiggins - Lets Talk It Over

[Patto]

Hi Guys

 

This is the copy i have which i bought around 2000

 

Over the years i have seen the TORCH one and the green SOUL SERIES label played out lots of times.My question is has it been assertained for definite that either of these are legit and ok to play out

 

If they are not then why don't DJs play the cheaper and easier to get recent Kent release

[Pete S]

I thought they were both bootlegs.  Happy to be corrected.

[TOAD]

Cd release first!

[Patto]

I thought they were both bootlegs.  Happy to be corrected.

 

If thats the case then its strange they both sell for at least double the Kent one.They are both not that hard to find and still Djs are sticking to the older copies.It just confuses me that they dont switch to the Kent one which is 100% legit

[Pete S]

If thats the case then its strange they both sell for at least double the Kent one.They are both not that hard to find and still Djs are sticking to the older copies.It just confuses me that they dont switch to the Kent one which is 100% legit

 

Probably don't care!  How many dj's are there nowadays?  500 maybe?  350 of those won't care what label something's on as long as they get people dancing I suppose.

[dthedrug]

HI ALL....I have a 1 sided DEMO that KEITH MINSHAL gave me at KEELE,  However I always thought they were legit, and released under license, I think CHRIS KING was the promoter,?  DAVE K

[Chalky]

Japanese cd first then the first legit release was Kent a couple of years ago as far as I am aware. The cd is where the first cuts were taken from, Eddie Hubbard's I think.

[Chalky]

Oops...

Edited October 19, 2013 by chalky

[Mike]

just tagged this and two other skip of info threads

 

https://www.soul-source.co.uk/tags/forums/spencer%2Bwiggins/

[Eddie Hubbard]

Japanese cd first then the first legit release was Kent a couple of years ago as far as I am aware. The cd is where the first cuts were taken from, Eddie Hubbard's I think.

I know Rob Marriott's acetate was done from my Japanese CD ,as was Otis Clay " Come my dear " , also Jap CD only ....

[Tfk]

I know Rob Marriott's acetate was done from my Japanese CD ,as was Otis Clay " Come my dear " , also Jap CD only ....

Defo remember it as a Rob "Lord " Marriott power play at most clubs that he DJed at during the 90s ....Awesome recording BTW

TFK

Edited October 19, 2013 by tfk

[Goldsoul]

Japanese cd first then the first legit release was Kent a couple of years ago as far as I am aware. The cd is where the first cuts were taken from, Eddie Hubbard's I think.

The first supposed legit 7 inch release was via Chris King's Soul series 45 which was distributed by Goldmine. That deal I believe was concluded via Quinton Claunch and Dave Porter, a UK P-Vine representative.

Goldmine funded the manufacture after receiving copies of paper work between all parties.

Edited October 19, 2013 by The Golden 101

[Eddie Hubbard]

It's interesting to note that P -Vine thought they had the right to release " Let's talk it over "  on CD , thinking it a Goldwax track , but not realising the master had been sold to Fame publishing .This is why UK label Kent have only , in recent times released this side , since they gained the rights to the Fame catalogue .

[Goldsoul]

It's interesting to note that P -Vine thought they had the right to release " Let's talk it over " on CD , thinking it a Goldwax track , but not realising the master had been sold to Fame publishing .This is why UK label Kent have only , in recent times released this side , since they gained the rights to the Fame catalogue .

Possibly right Eddie. Kent will have been meticulous in their appraisal of ownership. Sadly it didn't stop certain parties 'claiming rights' and taking money from willing licensees back in the day.

[Derek Pearson]

Regardless of which release is legit we all know it's a proper blokes ball banging record.

 

Have it. Go on.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHKGXs5-ID4

[Peter99]

Some interesting posts..........................

 

 

Kettle black and all that jazz, err soul.

 

Peter

 

[Cheltsoulnights]

I seem to remember Brian Rae  being credited with finding it on a Budget Cd on the the counter of a US Gas Station?  I might be wrong?

[Stevie]

"I seem to remember Brian Rae being credited with finding it on a Budget Cd on the the counter of a US Gas Station? I might be wrong"?

May well be right. Brian used to play another Japanese CD track by The Ovations - What did I do wrong, covered up as "Moaning and Groaning". Cracking track that never made it to vinyl as far as I know.

[Chalky]

I think Brian was the first now you mention it Pete.

 

Possibly right Eddie. Kent will have been meticulous in their appraisal of ownership. Sadly it didn't stop certain parties 'claiming rights' and taking money from willing licensees back in the day.

 

Looks like what happened with this track Kev before Kent got to the rightful owners.

[Davenpete]

I seem to remember Brian Rae  being credited with finding it on a Budget Cd on the the counter of a US Gas Station?  I might be wrong?

It was defo Brian that first played it.

Dx

[Ady Croasdell]

Well you asked for it:

 

On 27 July 1967 two of Spencer Wiggins’ Goldwax recordings, ‘Let’s Talk It Over’ and ‘We Gotta Make Up Baby’, were mixed by Stan Kessler at Sam Phillips’ Memphis recording studios. Presumably intended as a 45, the project was inexplicably shelved. Goldwax 45s were released on Spencer later that year and in 1968 and 1969, so this single may have been pulled on musical grounds, perhaps being somewhat dated for Spencer’s audience, who would have been buying his records for their more southern soul content by then. This, however, is speculation. What we know did happen was that Spencer moved on to Fame Records in 1969 and these two tracks, along with ‘Cry To Me’, ‘Water’, ‘Love Works That Way’, ‘Love Attack’ and ‘Love Me Tonight’, were sold to Fame. Of these only ‘Love Me Tonight’ was ever issued as a record on Fame and only after strings and other sweetening had been added.

 

Ten years later and the Japanese reissue company Vivid Sound cut a deal with Quinton Claunch to put out a series of LPs of Goldwax material. In the early 90s they revived that deal for CD and were given access to more tapes, some of which included unreleased tracks by Goldwax artists. Inadvertently, there were still copies of Fame-owned masters included in the cache and Vivid Sound unwittingly gave these tracks their first public airing. As if that wasn’t complicated enough, the free enterprise of the Northern soul scene then enters into the mix.

 

Spotted as an absolute future monster (please excuse the language non Northern types), it wasn’t long before some enterprising DJs were getting acetates made up of the track and spinning it out at Northern soul venues. Inevitably, due to the quality of the recording, it went massive and, as sure as night follows day, was pressed up onto a vinyl single for selling on the scene to satisfy the high demand. So much so that two separate pressings came out at roughly the same time. One on the Torch label licensed from the UK arm of Vivid Sound and the other on the Soul Series logo. Both labels appeared only for these one-off pressings.

 

Being aware of the Goldwax/Fame contract, we applied to Fame for clearance on this and the other tracks, but their licensing policy was up in the air at that time. When things were eventually sorted out, they told us the track dated from Fame’s EMI period and we should apply to them. Armed with the contract, this was duly done and the results are here for all to hear. Though technically now a Fame master, it was undoubtedly a Goldwax recording.

 

The track in question is so atypical of Goldwax and so perfect for the Northern scene that there were actually queries as to its provenance. It has the most solid and infectious beat of almost any 1960s soul recordings, which inspires dancers to rush to the floor and give their all. This coupled with Spencer’s fabulous performance, girly backing vocals right on the button and unbelievably appropriate breaks make it a contender for one of the greatest out-and-out Northern soul songs of all time. Only the fact that it was not issued until the 90s has stopped it from being more famous.

[Ady Croasdell]

That chapter was taken from the Goldwax Northern Soul CD booklet. In a nutshell it was erroneously licensed out by Goldwax when it was a Fame owned recording though recorded for Goldwax. The Kent releases are the only correctly licensed ones though I'm not sure it makes the others bootlegs, just wrongly attributed licensing. Either way the Kent one is the best sounding and the first fully legal version.

[Guest oldsoulgit]

What price do the three go for now ?

[stokesoulboy]

Actually two takes or at least different mixes of it - in a nutshell the torch one has the organ and the king doesn't - I do know the torch single was paid for licence wise at the time , still an amazing record to play out

[Ady Croasdell]

What price do the three go for now ?

The Kent City release usually sells for £9.50/99

[Pete S]

One on the Torch label licensed from the UK arm of Vivid Sound and the other on the Soul Series logo. Both labels appeared only for these one-off pressings.

 

 

 

Sorry not nit-picking but there are at least 3 releases on Soul Series

[Ady Croasdell]

Sorry not nit-picking but there are at least 3 releases on Soul Series

Thanks, that was from the old sleevenote. What were the other releases?

[Pete S]

Thanks, that was from the old sleevenote. What were the other releases?

 

Haven't got any of them but one was The Sapphires, that track with the same backing as Slow Fizz, also I think Eddie Parker - I'm Gone and Del Larks - Job Opening also possibly an unissued Major Lance track, but honestly can't remember.

[Guest oldsoulgit]

Cheers Ady.

[Sean Hampsey]

SOUL SERIES        

 

Sapphires Baby You've Got Me Showstoppers Ain't Nothing But A Houseparty SS101    

     

Spencer Wiggins Let's Talk It Over Percy Wiggins Call On Me SS102          

 

Del Larks Job Opening Eddie Parker I'm Gone SS103          

 

Hesitations That's What Love Is Hesitations I'm Not Built That Way SS104        

 

Major Lance Don't Fight It Major Lance Nothing Can Stop Me SS105

 

There you go.

 

 

Sean

Edited October 22, 2013 by Sean Hampsey

[Ady Croasdell]

Thanks chaps.

 

Ady