is this the first or second issue ???.

joe.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200984172425?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Wouldn't have a clue myself, but just happened to see earlier if it helps :

 

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/91415/COLLINS,_KEANYA

Was there a 2nd issue or just a load of 1st issues?

Edited November 11, 201311 yr by Steve G

took this off j manships page

 

https://www.raresoulm...COLLINS,_KEANYA

 

Philadelphia meets Chicago, delivering two fabulous Northern Soul dancer that have sat under the radar in recent decades. This is the 2nd. Press light blue label from 1972, BLUE ROCK logo top left hand side with MERCURY logo inside a smaller oval.

thanks for replys

That Manship explanation jibes with my experience.  I looked through hundreds of thousands of US 45s from 1966-1970, and NEVER saw the blue issue, until seeing a few during the 1970s.

in cases like this does it even matter? they were all pressed around the same time, as I don't think this record was repressed for any market. however, a monochromatic label like that usually indicates a cheaper further press.

makes a difference on price if nothing else, plus selling as original when you know it's a second issue is not on either i m o.

pity mercury didn't just stick with the nice red label ones i m o, much better looking.

joe.

The difference is clear, the one above sells in the range £20-25 whereas the white logo "original" sells for approx treble, but of course as often happens this only applies where both buyer and seller know what the difference is. I have seen them sold the wrong way round, but if you buy the white logo off, lets say Soul Bowl for example, then you will have to pay £75 upwards in my experience, but you continue to see the one above in cheapo boxes in venues .

Having said that, buy a WDJ, say £100+ maybe ? then you are on solid ground

makes a difference on price if nothing else, plus selling as original when you know it's a second issue is not on either i m o.

pity mercury didn't just stick with the nice red label ones i m o, much better looking.

joe.

 

Joe I think the red Blue Rock's finished long before this release....Steve

yeah i know i think it was an otis leavill record was a red label and then changed to the new blue lable. ( can't remember which number it was off-hand )

 

i really just meant the old red labels were better looking than the blue ones i m o

I was under the impression that the last red number was The Chi-lites - Never No More - 4037 with The Shirelles - Don't Mess With Cupid - 4040 the first of the new style label.  Don't remember seeing any original releases with both designs, but happy to be proved wrong.

Edited November 12, 201311 yr by John Reed

The Shirelles - Don't Mess With Cupid - 4040 ( i've got this on 4051 )

 

i think the numbers 4040 or 4041 to 4049  were unissued on blue rock but may have come out on mercury ???

4039 the fads ( never seen one of these on blue rock but mine is on

 

mercury / 72542  the fads / just like a woman

 

 

i've just had a look at the blue rock double cd and the fads is the last one on 4039 then a gap to 4051 shirelles / sweet sweet lovin

The difference is clear, the one above sells in the range £20-25 whereas the white logo "original" sells for approx treble, but of course as often happens this only applies where both buyer and seller know what the difference is. I have seen them sold the wrong way round, but if you buy the white logo off, lets say Soul Bowl for example, then you will have to pay £75 upwards in my experience, but you continue to see the one above in cheapo boxes in venues .

Having said that, buy a WDJ, say £100+ maybe ? then you are on solid ground

 

but why should it? this kind of proves the arbitrariness of this, nobody has proven that one is some later press. it seems artificial, like how that lew curtain revue on pad was a 500 record for a second because someone important said it was.

Why would it have been re-pressed in 1972? It wasn't in demand….…..not sure all this 2nd issue stuff stacks up…..

Steve "It ain't no secret" was a big tune in the earlier 70's, imho, and I hate to disagree with you, it was "in demand". It was almost a blueprint of the stomping thumping northern that rose during the pre-wigan Cats/Torch era (maybe it was a classic example of "Midlands Soul" as opposed to Northern Soul, a phrase often quoted in these parts as a way of saying midlands venues were leading the way in breaking this new stomping style of music) where the beat had to really bang and the singers generally had to wail a bit to be heard over the banging bass line through those big bass bins much loved in the old days (when you'd feel the floor shake under your feet).
At that time one of the local shops would pin up all their new stock in their sleeves under the title "Hot New Releases", which of course 99% weren't.
It started at 65p or 13/-, then rose up until it got up to 85p a go. I don't specifically remember seeing this pale blue press on the wall, but I do remember in that very shop hearing the one on Keanya label for the first time, and it being discussed along the lines of " It's good, but it'll never go massive like her first one" (meaning the blue rock one) So I asked which one they meant and it was played. That was the first time I actually knew what it was, but I knew it straight away because I'd been dancing to it for a longish time.

 

As I say, maybe it was a regional thing, especially as DJ's kept as many tunes to themselves for as long as possible, but a strong relationship existed between these 2 clubs and the sources for reissued material in the east mids and USA (and Chicago in particular) and a good way of dating it is that Bob C the Cats DJ died on the journey to east mids to replenish the stock for his shop and I'm fairly certain that was early 72.

One point that nobody has yet made is that all of the pale blue label Blue Rocks that I've seen are Northern sides. I've yet to see any 45 on the pale blue label that is a ballad, but I'm happy to be proved wrong ( i remember Boomerang was done on this pale blue label. How many different release examples of the pale blue label are there?)
and finally Esther - Recently I asked Chris Burton about a specific Torch Dayer promotion which we both think was March 74, and I specifically remember the Barnabus Collins track being red hot there, which added to the knowing this to be her 2nd hit on the scene, means the Blue Rock one was some date before that.
So not the all out proof that an invoice ordering them in 72 would prove, but a lot of jigsaw pieces which together add up to a lot.
hth

p.s. does anybody know date wise when the small 45 Okeh's turned up?

Steve "It ain't no secret" was a big tune in the earlier 70's, imho, and I hate to disagree with you, it was "in demand". It was almost a blueprint of the stomping thumping northern that rose during the pre-wigan Cats/Torch era (maybe it was a classic example of "Midlands Soul" as opposed to Northern Soul, a phrase often quoted in these parts as a way of saying midlands venues were leading the way in breaking this new stomping style of music) where the beat had to really bang and the singers generally had to wail a bit to be heard over the banging bass line through those big bass bins much loved in the old days (when you'd feel the floor shake under your feet).

At that time one of the local shops would pin up all their new stock in their sleeves under the title "Hot New Releases", which of course 99% weren't.

It started at 65p or 13/-, then rose up until it got up to 85p a go. I don't specifically remember seeing this pale blue press on the wall, but I do remember in that very shop hearing the one on Keanya label for the first time, and it being discussed along the lines of " It's good, but it'll never go massive like her first one" (meaning the blue rock one) So I asked which one they meant and it was played. That was the first time I actually knew what it was, but I knew it straight away because I'd been dancing to it for a longish time.

 

As I say, maybe it was a regional thing, especially as DJ's kept as many tunes to themselves for as long as possible, but a strong relationship existed between these 2 clubs and the sources for reissued material in the east mids and USA (and Chicago in particular) and a good way of dating it is that Bob C the Cats DJ died on the journey to east mids to replenish the stock for his shop and I'm fairly certain that was early 72.

One point that nobody has yet made is that all of the pale blue label Blue Rocks that I've seen are Northern sides. I've yet to see any 45 on the pale blue label that is a ballad, but I'm happy to be proved wrong ( i remember Boomerang was done on this pale blue label. How many different release examples of the pale blue label are there?)

and finally Esther - Recently I asked Chris Burton about a specific Torch Dayer promotion which we both think was March 74, and I specifically remember the Barnabus Collins track being red hot there, which added to the knowing this to be her 2nd hit on the scene, means the Blue Rock one was some date before that.

So not the all out proof that an invoice ordering them in 72 would prove, but a lot of jigsaw pieces which together add up to a lot.

hth

p.s. does anybody know date wise when the small 45 Okeh's turned up?

I knew of Keanya Collins Blue Rock double sider, at least a year, maybe 18 mouths before "Love Bandit" went big in 74.

 

Small 45 Okeh's turned up roundabout the back end of 72.

As I stated before, I looked through hundreds of thousands of 45s in the mid-late '60s (in places all over USA (except the very deep South) and never saw a blue BG Blue Rock.  I only saw it during the '70s.  On the other hand, sometimes a different colour label base BG was often used in a pinch, when the record company was in a hurry to get the records out on the street, when the proper colour had run out a a given plant.  On the other hand, I can't imagine that being the scenario with this particular Blue Rock release.

so you're saying that the pale blue Blue Rocks were pressed by Blue Rock in the US for export to the UK? how does that happen, doesn't someone from the UK have to initiate the special press? who did it?

The Shirelles - Don't Mess With Cupid - 4040 ( i've got this on 4051 )

 

i think the numbers 4040 or 4041 to 4049  were unissued on blue rock but may have come out on mercury ???

Yep, my mistake

Steve "It ain't no secret" was a big tune in the earlier 70's, imho, and I hate to disagree with you, it was "in demand". It was almost a blueprint of the stomping thumping northern that rose during the pre-wigan Cats/Torch era (maybe it was a classic example of "Midlands Soul" as opposed to Northern Soul, a phrase often quoted in these parts as a way of saying midlands venues were leading the way in breaking this new stomping style of music) where the beat had to really bang and the singers generally had to wail a bit to be heard over the banging bass line through those big bass bins much loved in the old days (when you'd feel the floor shake under your feet).

At that time one of the local shops would pin up all their new stock in their sleeves under the title "Hot New Releases", which of course 99% weren't.

It started at 65p or 13/-, then rose up until it got up to 85p a go. I don't specifically remember seeing this pale blue press on the wall, but I do remember in that very shop hearing the one on Keanya label for the first time, and it being discussed along the lines of " It's good, but it'll never go massive like her first one" (meaning the blue rock one) So I asked which one they meant and it was played. That was the first time I actually knew what it was, but I knew it straight away because I'd been dancing to it for a longish time.

 

As I say, maybe it was a regional thing, especially as DJ's kept as many tunes to themselves for as long as possible, but a strong relationship existed between these 2 clubs and the sources for reissued material in the east mids and USA (and Chicago in particular) and a good way of dating it is that Bob C the Cats DJ died on the journey to east mids to replenish the stock for his shop and I'm fairly certain that was early 72.

One point that nobody has yet made is that all of the pale blue label Blue Rocks that I've seen are Northern sides. I've yet to see any 45 on the pale blue label that is a ballad, but I'm happy to be proved wrong ( i remember Boomerang was done on this pale blue label. How many different release examples of the pale blue label are there?)

and finally Esther - Recently I asked Chris Burton about a specific Torch Dayer promotion which we both think was March 74, and I specifically remember the Barnabus Collins track being red hot there, which added to the knowing this to be her 2nd hit on the scene, means the Blue Rock one was some date before that.

So not the all out proof that an invoice ordering them in 72 would prove, but a lot of jigsaw pieces which together add up to a lot.

hth

p.s. does anybody know date wise when the small 45 Okeh's turned up?

 

Hi John, hate to disagree with you too, and there's some great points above and you are right!

 

The answer is here.....

 

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/d/91415/COLLINS,_KEANYA

 

Those nice dudes at Sectadisc.

 

ATB Steve

Edited November 13, 201311 yr by Steve G

sorry to be ignorant as a US dude. who were selectadisc? were they commissioning the press just for the northern scene?

sorry to be ignorant as a US dude. who were selectadisc? were they commissioning the press just for the northern scene?

 

Yep. They were the UK distributor for all Soussan's stuff as well.

 

Ian D 

Distributor and bootlegger or just distributor including bootlegs?  

Distributor and bootlegger or just distributor including bootlegs?

 

Import boots through Soussan, some legal stuff directly (and I didn't know about the Kenya Collins either - a real surprise to me that anyone would have done that record) and then, of course, their own Black Magic label which contained bootleg recordings.......

 

Ian D