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Four Tracks -Like My Love For You

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I know it's a bit of an obvious question but is/was this group related to the one that cut the rather excellent "Charade" on Note?

 

Yes I know they both share the same group name.......and the releases are a few years apart.

 

Geographical wise might rule it out as Mandingo was Ohio based whilst Note frequented Atlanta, Georgia.

 

Thought I best ask whilst the question was fresh in my mind.

 

Derek

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no connection. the note group was from atlanta. the mandingo group was from toledo. the mandingo group has connections to the magnificent opinions on skippyophonic.

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Thanks for the reply Bob - sorta knew what the answer would be but that didn't stop me asking it hahaha.

 

Here's a flimsy excuse to hear both songs under discussion.

 

A man that is tired of hearing The Four Tracks is tired of life.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxDWPgPKDB8

 

Oh Brian why didn’t I see/read your comments first hahaha

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqnflJFzEZk

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I always ask this, but what is the evidence this was recorded at Magic City Studios in Detroit?

 

A reference to this goes way back, and was included in Rod Dearlove's - A Collector's Guide to Detroit.

 

I often hear this claim, but have never found the source or any evidence to show it was actually recorded at Magic City.

 

The label credits don't suggest the Magic City connection as far as I know. They do make a reference to "Glass City" though.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

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I definitely hear Detroit session players on the recording.  It sounds very like the acoustics of Magic City(Correc-Tone)'s room.  That was the studio at 8912 Grand River in Detroit that was built by Robert Bateman commissioned by Wilbur Golden, owner of Correc-Tone Records.  Golden sold the studio to Ernest Burt, who started up Magic City Records there, and continued to operate the studio for outside clients as well as his own projects.  Toledo was, basically, part of the Detroit Metropolitan Area, and artists there almost always recorded in Detroit with Detroit producers.

 

I don't have the record.  Can anyone who has it please tell us what is written in the groove runouts?

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Guest Dave Turner

i think it was pressed at a plant that's datable by matrix info if someone wants to nerd out and get the info

 

Bob, it was Archer

 

http://www.45rpmrecords.com/press/AR.php

 

Good site for anyone to bookmark as well

Edited by Dave Turner

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Anything else known about the "Mandingo" Four Tracks - love the record - both sides!

Any connection with Four Voices or is that a myth.....

I'd guess that those 2 groups had no connection.  The four Tracks were a Toledo, Ohio group whose main writer was Tommy Jones (probably a group member).  Their producer took them to Detroit to record (as most Toledo groups did).  They had Giant's Mel Collins arrange their record.  Their producer is a name I don't recognise as being from Detroit, so I assume he brought them from Ohio.  The Four Voices had George Washington as a member and their creative leader.  He was a known Detroiter, and had previously been a member of Detroit's Twilighters.  Both of those groups were produced by William (Tony) Ewing, owner of Spin, Chex, Volume and Voice Records, and published by his Criss Music.  The other writers on their songs were Othea George (known Detroit singer/writer-and I believe, also a member of The Four Voices), K. Forrest and G. Garrett, who I believe, were the other 2 group members.  None of the names on The Four Voices records appear on The Four Tracks' record, and vise versa.  The only things the groups seem to have in common was recording in Detroit, and having releases with similar label fonts and layouts, and, possibly pressed in the same plant.

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Just realised I'd forgot to ask this question when I replied earlier..........it's an age thang.

 

Which DJ is credited to first playing and making "Like my love for you" the popular track we always hoped it would be?

 

Was it covered up? And can anybody remember what as?

 

What time period are we talking about and which club did it become massive at?

 

Derek

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Guest Dave Turner

Derek,

 

Poke & I used to listen to it on a cassette that Richard Watts (Carlisle) put together whilst travelling up to Unity Hall Wakefield and that would be circa 1977.

 

I'm guessing a Mecca play. Not saying it was big then but as you know some get a few plays then hit big years later.

 

Memory's gone so have to dig the cassette out and see what others are on it

Edited by Dave Turner

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Archer was used by Magic City (Mad Dog & Pups, Soul Tornados).  In any case, according to the Archer numbers, The Mandingo release was pressed in fall, 1967.

Thanks RobbK for that.

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Derek,

 

Poke & I used to listen to it on a cassette that Richard Watts (Carlisle) put together whilst travelling up to Unity Hall Wakefield and that would be circa 1977.

 

I'm guessing a Mecca play. Not saying it was big then but as you know some get a few plays then hit big years later.

 

Memory's gone so have to dig the cassette out and see what others are on it

This record was a Tim Ashibende discovery around 1981 or 1982. He sold it to Gary Rushbrooke who covered it up and became a big favourite within a year.  Couldn't see it getting any attention during the 7ts, as it was too slow and definitely not a Mecca play.

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Sorry folks but I still don't see any evidence of this being a Detroit recording at MagicCity.

 

Sounds like, might have been, this person knew that person ... 

 

Mel Collins - Chicago Giant rather than Detroit Giant no? I know it's a grey area.

 

Everyone tells me this is a Detroit record but I think it's an Ohio record - I got a downer on it  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Never liked it anyway  :yes:  :yes:  :D

 

Richard

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Just realised I'd forgot to ask this question when I replied earlier..........it's an age thang.

 

Which DJ is credited to first playing and making "Like my love for you" the popular track we always hoped it would be?

 

Was it covered up? And can anybody remember what as?

 

What time period are we talking about and which club did it become massive at?

 

Derek

 

It was first played by Gary Rushbrooke in 1980, he first played it covered as the "Mandingos" it was a one off when he first played it, he shortly after changed the c/u name to the Fantastic Four. It was around the Same time that he was playing the The Cashmeres which he had covered up as the "Volcanoes" Both records sat great together in his set.

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Sorry folks but I still don't see any evidence of this being a Detroit recording at MagicCity.

 

Sounds like, might have been, this person knew that person ... 

 

Mel Collins - Chicago Giant rather than Detroit Giant no? I know it's a grey area.

 

Everyone tells me this is a Detroit record but I think it's an Ohio record - I got a downer on it  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Never liked it anyway  :yes:  :yes:  :D

 

Richard

There is no actual evidence.  Toledo, Ohio, is essentially part of the Detroit Metropolitan Area.  Almost all singers and groups from there recorded in Detroit.  For every one from Toledo that recorded in Ohio, I'm sure that we could list 10 that recorded in Detroit.  The liklihood is that they recorded in Detroit. However, you are correct that we have no evidence, whatsoever, that they recorded at Magic City.  Mel Collins worked for Giant of Chicago.  However, they recorded Ruby Andrews in Detroit, and had Mike Terry arrange other recordings of theirs in Detroit.  If I had to bet money on it, I would guess that The Four Tracks' songs were recorded in Detroit.  I would NOT bet money that it was recorded in Magic City Studio.  Upon listening to it several times, again, it sounds not-at-all like the acoustics of soungs I know to have been recorded at Correc-Tone/Magic City, and the session players certainly don't sound like The Funk Brothers or any of the best Motown/Detroit musicians of the time.  The 2 cuts sound like they were recorded in one of the low budget Detroit studios of the time.  We know it was pressed in Detroit.  It might also be possible that the vocals were recorded in Toledo, and the instrumental in Detroit (or Chicago, for that matter). 

 

Yes, "Glass City" refers to Toledo, which was known as "The Glass City", as that was a primary industry there.  So, we have already admitted that Mandingo Records was a Toledo, Ohio company.  But, as stated above, most Toledo based labels did their recording and pressing in Detroit, and most of their artists played most of their gigs in Michigan, rather than in Ohio.  Toledo is to Detroit as East St. Louis, Illinois is to St. Louis, Missouri, and East Chicago, Indiana is to Chicago, Illinois, and Kansas City, Kansas is To Kansas City Missouri, and Newark, New Jersey is To New York, and Paducah, Kentucky is to Cincinatti, Ohio, and not even unlike as Windsor, Ontario, Canada is to Detroit, Michigan, USA.

Edited by RobbK

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Guest Dave Turner

This record was a Tim Ashibende discovery around 1981 or 1982. He sold it to Gary Rushbrooke who covered it up and became a big favourite within a year.  Couldn't see it getting any attention during the 7ts, as it was too slow and definitely not a Mecca play.

 

Ok, not sure who played out first or where but was known way before 81/82

 

As I say, I have it on a Dicky Watts tape from 1977

 

I'll have to dig the tape out to remind myself what else was on the tape, William Hunt and Guitar Ray as well for sure.

Edited by Dave Turner

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I've never liked The Four Tracks' Mandingo cuts very much.  But, upon listening to them, I'd guess they were recorded using mostly Detroit musicians, and probably recorded in a lesser Detroit studio (with not-so-good acoustics) from which I have heard at least several records recorded.

Edited by RobbK

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On 17/11/2013 at 23:05, RobbK said:

 

I'd guess that those 2 groups had no connection.  The four Tracks were a Toledo, Ohio group whose main writer was Tommy Jones (probably a group member).  Their producer took them to Detroit to record (as most Toledo groups did).  They had Giant's Mel Collins arrange their record.  Their producer is a name I don't recognise as being from Detroit, so I assume he brought them from Ohio.  The Four Voices had George Washington as a member and their creative leader.  He was a known Detroiter, and had previously been a member of Detroit's Twilighters.  Both of those groups were produced by William (Tony) Ewing, owner of Spin, Chex, Volume and Voice Records, and published by his Criss Music.  The other writers on their songs were Othea George (known Detroit singer/writer-and I believe, also a member of The Four Voices), K. Forrest and G. Garrett, who I believe, were the other 2 group members.  None of the names on The Four Voices records appear on The Four Tracks' record, and vise versa.  The only things the groups seem to have in common was recording in Detroit, and having releases with similar label fonts and layouts, and, possibly pressed in the same plant.

Robb

I came across this thread and have being doing some digging and wondered if the Arranger H. Collins was the Howard Collins who was involved with Chanson (Majestics, Unlimited Four) who had a branch here
PO Box 3032 
Toledo, Ohio 
43607 

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11 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

Robb

I came across this thread and have being doing some digging and wondered if the Arranger H. Collins was the Howard Collins who was involved with Chanson (Majestics, Unlimited Four) who had a branch here
PO Box 3032 
Toledo, Ohio 
43607 

Seems a distinct possibility.

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