Invictus-Hot Wax-Music Merchant Unreleased And Acetate Stuff

[Guest Paul]

I heard some HDH test pressings at Phil Dick's house in The City Of Dreams, some were unissued so I obviously don't expect him to sell them but I think one was a test pressing of 'Remember Me' by Laura Lee and that's an old favourite so I'd be willing to take it off his hands if ...err, if ever he's a bit short of cash.

And I've put a crisp £30 note aside, just in case.

 

 

 

[Sjclement]

I heard some HDH test pressings at Phil Dick's house in The City Of Dreams, some were unissued so I obviously don't expect him to sell them but I think one was a test pressing of 'Remember Me' by Laura Lee and that's an old favourite so I'd be willing to take it off his hands if ...err, if ever he's a bit short of cash.

And I've put a crisp £30 note aside, just in case.

 

 

(If you want to try love again) Remember Me.... I have this on Hot Wax and Invictus 45s, 

 

Credit to you Ian, Its about time somebody compiled some of HDHs' rare later stuff.

 

ps Don't forget the Jones Girls

 

[Phild]

Can you pull 'em all out please Phil? 

 

Ian D 

Already done

[Steve G]

You do for sure because I expect you get in that bloody lock-up and dig out some pristine copies 'cos I'll need to scan 'em and maybe master from 'em if I can't dig the tapes up! You're not passing by L.A. anytime soon are you....? 

 

Ian D 

 

Ian, Tell me what ones you want scans of and I'll dig em out....no point in the test pressings since they are white labels.....pretty dull. But if there are any released ones you would like scans of let me know. Does that Lee Charles really exist?

Edited November 28, 2013 by Steve G

[Phild]

"I think you need love" I have that on a test press its Invictus 9127 in the run out and I believe it's Freda Payne singing……will need to find it to double check.

I have 2 copies of that too, but I am convinced its Eloise Laws.

You may ask why? The reason being that one of them is a double sider with her favourite B Side - "Stay With Me"

[Phild]

Ian, Tell me what ones you want scans of and I'll dig em out....no point in the test pressings since they are white labels.....pretty dull. But if there are any released ones you would like scans of let me know. Does that Lee Charles really exist?

I don't think it does. Because one of the test presses I have of "Bright City Lights" has the release no on it that was scheduled for Lee Charles. I actually thought it WAS Lee Charles for a long time

[Steve G]

I have 2 copies of that too, but I am convinced its Eloise Laws.

You may ask why? The reason being that one of them is a double sider with her favourite B Side - "Stay With Me"

 

Phil the lock up beckons on Saturday......

[Steve G]

I don't think it does. Because one of the test presses I have of "Bright City Lights" has the release no on it that was scheduled for Lee Charles. I actually thought it WAS Lee Charles for a long time

 

Yep I have that too. Got it from Pat Brady c 1991 - £15. My copy has "Why?" written on it in big letters.....

Edited November 28, 2013 by Steve G

[Phild]

Yep I have that too. Got it from Pat Brady c 1991 - £15. My copy has "Why?" written on it in big letters.....

Yep. They all came from a find at Bob Mays in Detroit in '91.

Me and a mate got the lot, about 300 or so at 3 for a $.

We didn't realise there was unreleased stuff until much later. My mate offloaded most of his to Pat.

[Denbo]

Bullshit Denbo lad -you are as bad as that Dewhirst fella when it comes to guesswork

 

So, Dionne changed the spelling of her name to Warwicke in the early 70s on the advice of her astrologer who thought that the "e" on the end would bring her success. It was because Dionne was married to Bill Elliot at the time and the astrologer thought using the first letter of his surname on the end of hers would bring her success……of course it was a disaster and her Warner Brothers period was nowhere near as successful as her prior period….but there you go…..so after a few years she changed it back to Warwick.

 

I was being facetious Steve. But interesting retort. 

[Denbo]

Err, that's the exact way I spelt it before you corrected me ya scouse wally......

 

Ian D 

 

Stop jumping on the bandwagon Ian, we all now know that she had two different spellings, the latter, as Steve pointed out, for astrological reasons.     

[Steve G]

Yep. They all came from a find at Bob Mays in Detroit in '91.

Me and a mate got the lot, about 300 or so at 3 for a $.

We didn't realise there was unreleased stuff until much later. My mate offloaded most of his to Pat.

 

OK makes sense Phil.....Pat also had a load of old acetates from Tom M at the time too which I believe he got via Chris King of all people and the best part of Vincent's collection as well, following another "JV comeback" that ended in tears.....I rememeber going to Leeds several times and picking up plenty good acetates as well as som of the better things that Vincent had. At the time I left the acetates I knew / recognised and didn't know what the ones I picked up were either, but kind of pieced it together with a bit of detective work....That's where things like Tony Drake "Footsteps" and Will Hatcher "You haven't seen nothing yet" came from.....Pat had some good stock - Happy days!

Edited November 28, 2013 by Steve G

[Denbo]

Did it transpire that somebody reading this thread has a 7" or 10" acetate of the following two records;

What's The Use - Chairman of the Board

Gods Gift To Man - General Johnson

If so, please PM me. Thanks.

[Denbo]

Did it transpire that somebody reading this thread has a 7" or 10" acetate of the following two records;

What's The Use - Chairman of the Board

Gods Gift To Man - General Johnson

If so, please PM me. Thanks.

I take it from the deathly silence that the answer to my question might be a resounding NO!? :-(

Oh well, the search continues.

[Ian Dewhirst]

I take it from the deathly silence that the answer to my question might be a resounding NO!? :-(

Oh well, the search continues.

 

Looks like it Denbo.

 

And things have moved on a bit since I started the thread. It looks like we're going to try and release the complete Invictus/Hot Wax/Music Merchant singles, both A & B sides plus as many unreleased tracks as we can find, all on one king-hell bastard box set. 

 

No point in messing about ay?

 

Ian D 

[Ric-tic]

sounds great!

is dean looking for memorabilia for the booklet I might have some bits and pieces

[Mick Holdsworth]

I've just put the Eloise Laws stuff up on You Tube.

 

Can't seem to find any on You Tube - do you have a link ?

Cheers

Mick

[Denbo]

Looks like it Denbo.

 

And things have moved on a bit since I started the thread. It looks like we're going to try and release the complete Invictus/Hot Wax/Music Merchant singles, both A & B sides plus as many unreleased tracks as we can find, all on one king-hell bastard box set. 

 

No point in messing about ay?

 

Ian D 

Will you be including What's The Use - Chairman of the Board in this box set of CDs?

If so, where will you be getting the sound file / recording from?

[Larsc]

I haven't compared the Satisfaction Unlimited test press to the album version, but I've never noticed any differences between the two. I could check to see if the track length differs. Don't think I have any other unreleased stuff but will check. There's a Chairman 45 that was never released but if remember correctly both tracks were album tracks.

 

I picked up a Lucifer test press that was originally marked "Golden World", don't know if scans are of interest. I also have some documents that came with a few test presses I bought earlier this year.

[Steve G]

I haven't compared the Satisfaction Unlimited test press to the album version, but I've never noticed any differences between the two. I could check to see if the track length differs.

My Satisfaction Unlimited test press sounds the same as the album tracks...."Why?" and "Bright City Lights"

Edited December 12, 2013 by Steve G

[Larsc]

My Satisfaction Unlimited test press sounds the same as the album tracks...."Why?" and "Bright City Lights"

 

Mine has a different title. Can't remember exactly what, but they used the wrong song title. Must be several variants. Probably from different pressing plants.

[Denbo]

I haven't compared the Satisfaction Unlimited test press to the album version, but I've never noticed any differences between the two. I could check to see if the track length differs. Don't think I have any other unreleased stuff but will check. There's a Chairman 45 that was never released but if remember correctly both tracks were album tracks.

 

I picked up a Lucifer test press that was originally marked "Golden World", don't know if scans are of interest. I also have some documents that came with a few test presses I bought earlier this year.

What was the Chairman 45 Lars?

[Larsc]

What was the Chairman 45 Lars?

 

I'll check the titles tonight.

[theboyfromxtown]

I spoke to Brenda Holloway.

 

Brenda told me that she was signed to Invictus and she has no idea why her songs came out on Music Merchant.  Brenda recorded more than enough material for an album including many songs that came out as big hits by the like of Glass House, Freda Payne, Laura Lee and Honey Cone. 

 

Good luck with the project. I've tried to do it in years past with Sequel but was sadly unsuccessful.  I'm so pleased that the powers that be have agreed to release the unissued material.  I hope it might include alternative mixes of the released 45's in addition to their 45 mixes.
 

[davidwapples]

Glad to hear a box set of this is on its way , i only have the cd of the Music Merchant stuff that came out ages ago

[Steve Ss]

Hi Ian,

been a bit bored today so went through my box of HDH test press stuff..

All are white labels with a minimum of handwriting on.

 

Same stash that Phil D and i split.

 

As far as I can see there are the following discs:

 

Invictus

8th Day 9124 Good book / I gotta get home R 2

Freda Payne 9128 Hes in my life / Through the memroies of my mind R

Glass House 9129 Thanks I needed that / I don’t see me in your eyes anymore R

Chairman of Board 9130 Elmo james / Im on my way to a better place unreleased as this?

Danny Woods 9132 Everybodys tippin / same R 3

Holland Dozier 9133 Don’t leave me standing / same R 2

Holland Dozier 1253 Slipping away / Cant get enough inst R solid

Chairman of Board 1271 Love at first sight / same R same as on Manship

 

 

Hot Wax

Honey Cone 7208 Innocent till proven guilty / Don’t send me an invitation R

100 Proof 7211 Since you been gone / Nothing sweeter than love R

Honey Cone 7301 if I can fly / Woman cant live by bread alone R 3 1xsolid

Satisfaction Unlimited 7304 Bright city lints / Why unreleased? 2 1xsolid

 

 

 

Music Merchant

Jones Girls 1009 Your love controls me / same R solid

Jones Girls 1009 Your love controls me / blank R

Jones Girls 1017? Taster of the honey / Don’t be sorry be careful unreleased? 4

 

And a pile of Eloise Laws I cant place and one that I just cant identify

Eloise Laws or Freda Payne Tighten him up 89361 / I think You need love 89362

Eloise Laws 1011 Stay with me / blank states 1011 on label

Eloise Laws Stay with me / ? Baby doll diff ver 1119 2

? Let the love grow? / same

 

 

I think thats it.

The Eloise Laws Baby doll 45s both sound the same, but they are very different to the Manship post on You tube.

I think the duplicates are all same versions....got very bored checking run out grooves for matrix numbers....

 

I think Phil D should have all these because we halved a box......

If you need anything let me know.

 

And I do not like that bloody Eloise Laws Stay with me.........

 

Best regards

steve

Edited January 11, 2014 by steve ss

[Denbo]

Whatever happened to those "More Unreleased Invictus / Hot Wax" on You Tube? Can't seem to find them anymore?

[Picky]

 

OK, I managed to snag 10 minutes today and get a first draft of a list together. Here's what I've come up with so far:-

 

Unreleased HDH Masters

 

1) Eeny Meeny - Invictus House Band You Tube Clip

2) I Want To Give You All My Love - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

3) What’s The Use - General Johnson You Tube Clip

4) Baby Doll - Eloise Laws You Tube Clip

5) Where There’s A Will (There’s A Way)- Chairmen Of The Board You Tube Clip

6) Well Worth It - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

7) Come Back - Honey Cone You Tube Clip

8) You Hurt Me - Dionne Warwicke You Tube Clip

9) Something About You - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

10) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwicke Acetate

11) Deliciously Yours - 100% Proof Aged In Soul        ?

12) Taster Of The Honey - Honey Cone White Label TP

13) Love Ain’t Gonna Run Away - Lee Charles Unreleased 7209

14) Bright City Lights - Satisfaction Unlimited Unreleased

15) What You Gonna Do About Your Love - Uncredited Acetate

 

Blank Catalogue Numbers

 

Hot Wax - 6905, 6906, 7101, 7107, 7203, 7304

Invictus - 9127, 9131, 1261, 1262, 1266, 1270

 

One thing that is intriguing me somewhat is this:-

 

 

I take it that it's an earlier Detroit version of this:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCgtudwRoP0

 

Has anyone heard the acetate version?

 

Also I'm curious about the Dionne Warwicke connection? Anyone know the story here?

 

Ian D   

 

You can listen to the acetate version at the following Sirshambling's site, which my friend "Yass" kindly sent to the site.

 

https://www.sirshambling.com/artists_2012/R/little_reuben/index.php

 

In addition, I know that Yass has some more acetates for Invictus/Hot Wax.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hi All,

 

Further to the conjecture about the Lee Charles track "I Just Want To Be Loved", it would appear there's a clip of him singing it live on Soul Train in this episode:-

 

Season 3, Episode 8

Aired: November 10, 1973

The Four Tops/ Bloodstone/ Lee Charles

--The Four Tops ""Are You Man Enough"" and ""Sweet Understanding Love"" --Bloodstone ""Natural High"" abd ""Never Let You Go"" --Lee Charles ""Love Ain't Gonna Run Away"" and ""I Just Want to Be Loved""

 

Unfortunately it's not on You Tube and I can't seem to locate it anywhere else so I wondered if anyone here has seen the clip?

 

Ian D   

Edited January 21, 2014 by Ian Dewhirst

[Ian Dewhirst]

I haven't compared the Satisfaction Unlimited test press to the album version, but I've never noticed any differences between the two. I could check to see if the track length differs. Don't think I have any other unreleased stuff but will check. There's a Chairman 45 that was never released but if remember correctly both tracks were album tracks.

 

I picked up a Lucifer test press that was originally marked "Golden World", don't know if scans are of interest. I also have some documents that came with a few test presses I bought earlier this year.

 

Hey Lars,

 

A scan of the Lucifer Test Press would be great. I'm accumulating quite a bit of interesting looking stuff now mainly courtesy of Phil D and Rob Moss, so if you could e-mail me a scan to Ian.Dewhirst@Demonmusicgroup,.co.uk (300dpi + if poss) that would be great mate!

 

In fact, does anyone have a pristine vinyl copy of the Lucifer album that I could borrow? I had it at one time but I seem to remember that most of it was unlistenable.......

 

Ian D

Edited February 26, 2014 by Ian Dewhirst

[Ian Dewhirst]

Well, I may have cloth ears but I can't hear much of a difference to the Invictus House Band...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvSnri0tcCk

 

There wasn't! Well spotted Jerry. I think this was a nefarious attempt by someone who shall remain nameless trying to pass it off as the Invictus House Band! 

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

Hi All,

 

OK, as to the numbering system, these are what I have down as unreleased. I'm in the process of putting some of the jigsaw together, for instance, there is a little doubt that Eloise Laws "(You're Mine) Baby Doll"/"Stay With Me" should have been Invictus 9127 since it made to a test-pressing with that catalogue number, but if anyone else can add some meat to any of these other numbers that will certainly be useful :-

 

Invictus Records —

  

9127 Unreleased - Eloise Laws (You're Mine) Baby Doll    

9131 Unreleased   

1261 Unreleased   

1262 Unreleased   

1266 Unreleased   

1270 Unreleased   

  

Invictus Records — The B Sides

  

9127 Unreleased - Eloise Laws Stay With Me   

9131 Unreleased   

1261 Unreleased   

1262 Unreleased   

1266 Unreleased   

1270 Unreleased   

  

Hot Wax Records — The A Sides   

 

6905 Unreleased   

6906 Unreleased   

7002 Unreleased   

7101 Unreleased   

7107 Unreleased   

7203 Unreleased   

7304 Unreleased

  

Hot Wax Records — The B Sides

 

6905 Unreleased   

6906 Unreleased   

7002 Unreleased   

7101 Unreleased   

7107 Unreleased   

7203 Unreleased   

7304 Unreleased

 

Many thanks in advance. 

 

Ian D 

Edited February 26, 2014 by Ian Dewhirst

[Larsc]

Hey Lars,

 

A scan of the Lucifer Test Press would be great. I'm accumulating quite a bit of interesting looking stuff now mainly courtesy of Phil D and Rob Moss, so if you could e-mail me a scan to Ian.Dewhirst@Demonmusicgroup,.co.uk (300dpi + if poss) that would be great mate!

 

In fact, does anyone have a pristine vinyl copy of the Lucifer album that I could borrow? I had it at one time but I seem to remember that most of it was unlistenable.......

 

Ian D

 

I'll see if I can get a scan done tonight.

The Lucifer album isn't unlistenable but it's not really soul as we know it.

 

 

9131 Unreleased   

 

 

I think this is the Chairmen 45 I mentioned earlier. Will check tonight.

[Denbo]

I'll check the titles tonight.

Did you ever get back to me on this Lars?

[Larsc]

I'll see if I can get a scan done tonight.

The Lucifer album isn't unlistenable but it's not really soul as we know it.

 

 

I think this is the Chairmen 45 I mentioned earlier. Will check tonight.

 

Is 9131 Chairmen of the board Elmo James / I'm on my way to a better place

 

Did you ever get back to me on this Lars?

 

Yes. We exchanged PMs. It was the same title as above.

Edited March 4, 2014 by LarsC

[Larsc]

Invictus Records —

  

9127 Unreleased - Eloise Laws (You're Mine) Baby Doll    

 

I've made a note of 9127 being a testpress of Freda Payne - You're Mine / Stay With Me. It was a few years ago so don't know where I might have seen it. And there's the infamous George Clinton album called The Black Vampire (ST9815) that never got released. It made it as far as the Schwann Record Catalog.

[Ian Dewhirst]

I've made a note of 9127 being a testpress of Freda Payne - You're Mine / Stay With Me. It was a few years ago so don't know where I might have seen it. And there's the infamous George Clinton album called The Black Vampire (ST9815) that never got released. It made it as far as the Schwann Record Catalog.

 

The 9127 T.P. that Phil has is definitely Eloise Laws (which makes sense because they used "Stay With Me" as every 'B' side on Eloise anyway). Rumour has it that it got pulled because they needed another big hit on Freda at the time but I'm sceptical about that as "You're Mine (Baby Doll)" already sounded too dated for 1972 in my opinion.

 

The more I listen to the releases in chronological order and study the writing credits, it's obvious that the bulk of the releases for the first few of years of the operation (late '69-'72) were mostly holdovers from the 60's. There's some pretty interesting stories now coming out as well and when they're all patched together with the whole picture, they make perfect sense. I don't want to give anything away but suffice to say we've been talking to some of the key principles and there's some good stuff coming out. The "Band Of Gold" story is very interesting.........

 

I just went through some Parliament masters that I found. Listening to them again in 2014 had exactly the same effect on me as listening to "Osmium" in the early 70's. Unlistenable. They all sound like early rock band demos from '67/'68 which probably isn't too far from the truth. It was probably un-releasable and by then Parliament and Ron Dunbar had quit HDH anyway. Amazing how their sound mutated through the 60s to the 80's though.......

 

Ian D

[Larsc]

It was probably un-releasable and by then Parliament and Ron Dunbar had quit HDH anyway.

 

When I looked into it a few years ago the story was that most of the material was released by G.C. later, but not on Invictus.