Ovations "they Say" On Goldwax

[Guest Doctor Bird]

Is this a boot or not

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/200998281629?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

 

Kind Regards

DB

[Modernsoulsucks]

I'd say it's original.

I have same design though not a promo.

Mine is West Coast with Delta # 63965-X.

ROD

[Guest sharmo 1]

I'd say it's original.

I have same design though not a promo.

Mine is West Coast with Delta # 63965-X.

ROD

Rod are the boots really bootlegs or legit reissues have heard both said. The one in question looks quite genuine though. Regards Simon.

[Modernsoulsucks]

What does boot look like ?

There are blue label Goldwax too.

ROD

[Guest trickbag]

Ovations - Me and my imagination / They say - Goldwax 314 reissue1966
 

 

Ovations featuring Louis Williams - They say / Me and my imagination - Goldwax 114 original 1965

Soulful Kinda Music

 

this may help.

 

ricky
 

[Modernsoulsucks]

I didn't know that though ?

 

https://www.45cat.com/label/goldwax

 

Anyway not a boot ?

 

ROD

[Picky]

Is this a boot or not

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/200998281629?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

 

Kind Regards

DB

I believe this is a boot because the GOLDWAX logo is a different from the original copy.

 

See the following image of the Goldwax logo in #300s.  It is a bit different.

[Guest Doctor Bird]

Thanks so far - I doubt it's an original, no idea about boot/ legal reissue

I think I'll contact the seller

 

DB

[Picky]

I didn't know that though ?

 

https://www.45cat.com/label/goldwax

 

Anyway not a boot ?

 

ROD

Rod, you can refer to a log of G, O (which is an image of a record ), L and A.  Their font is completely different.

 

Normally, we can read GOLDWAX in O (image of a record) on the original copy but cannot read clearly on the boot copy. 

Edited December 6, 2013 by picky

[Picky]

There are many boot copies on the Goldwax label such as copies of the Ovations, James Carr and O.V. Wright which was made in mid 70s.  The followings are the difference between the original and boot copy as far as I know.

 

Goldwax 106 O. V. Wright : The original yellow copy has a log of GOLDWAX Records in stead of the boot copy has only GOLDWAX without logo of Records and the title of both songs on the original copy are one line. In addition, on the deadwax shows a Nashville stamp.  The boot copy has a large scratched NASHVILLE MARIA and tittle of songs are two lines.

Goldwax 117 The Ovations :  The original copy has a Nashville machine stamp, their customer #11 and Columbia matrix #ZTSB101345 on the deadwax

Goldwax 119 James Carr : The original copy has an initial I.R.G. SK on the deadwax

Goldwax 201 Percy Milem : This is completely boot copy.  No #201 on the original issue.

Goldwax 302 James Carr : The original copy has an Orange with a white stripe and the boot has only yellow label.

Edited December 6, 2013 by picky

[Kegsy]

This is all very odd, why would anyone bootleg this record in 1966 ?

 

If the yellow label 314 number is a boot why are there also blue label 314's ?, was it booted

by two separate people at two separate pressing plants

 

 

https://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2458536

 

I reckon none of them are boots they are all originals just different label designs

in the same way some of the James Carr stuff is on both blue and yellow label designs.

However it does get more confusing as it also came out on cat no 114 (anybody have one ?)  maybe they just re-issued it for some reason.

 

just found out it was no 40 on billboard charts so maybe quite a few pressing plants were used.

 

 

Kegsy

Edited December 6, 2013 by Kegsy

[Modernsoulsucks]

Think "bootleg" in 1966 is wrong term.

Claim is re-issued a little later as first release was in 1965 though 114 according to Goldwax listing is a different record that was then not put out.

I don't remember it being booted. Torch wasn't it ?

Hopefully scan of mine. Delta # corresponds with 1966 [see Flynny's site]

I agree with you. Different pressing plants.

[Picky]

This is all very odd, why would anyone bootleg this record in 1966 ?

 

If the yellow label 314 number is a boot why are there also blue label 314's ?, was it booted

by two separate people at two separate pressing plants

 

 

https://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2458536

 

I reckon none of them are boots they are all originals just different label designs

in the same way some of the James Carr stuff is on both blue and yellow label designs.

However it does get more confusing as it also came out on cat no 114 (anybody have one ?)  maybe they just re-issued it for some reason.

 

just found out it was no 40 on billboard charts so maybe quite a few pressing plants were used.

 

 

Kegsy

In Japan, Goldwax records were rare items in 70s (before we can use internet sales) and as you may know, southern / deep soul is more common than the northern soul for Japanese.  So, one Japanese man asked an US dealer to press the boot copies and imported to Japan in mid 70s for his profit. 

 

The blue copies of the Goldwax are all legal issue.  As you can see, distributor was Bell Records at the time.  All the blue copies has an initial B or Bell sound and some copies were pressed by Bestway pressing company.  But I think the Bell records issued those Goldwax records stuff in early 70s with a blue label.

 

Normally, Goldwax #100s series were pressed by Nashville and Monarch pressing plants.  After Bell records distributed the Goldwax label, the Bell records used the Bestway pressing co., I guess.

 

Regarding Goldwax #114 for the Ovations, do you know that UK Kent issued a CD titled "The Complete Goldwax Singles"?  Its liner-note shows Goldwax #114 is the same as its subsidiary label "Bandstand U.S.A. #1003 and the artist is Big Lucky Carter with Prince Gabe & The Millionaires, titles are  "Ohio Bound / Hurricane Blues".  So, I also doubt that the original of Goldwax #314 was reissued from #114.

Edited December 6, 2013 by picky

[Modernsoulsucks]

I'm losing the will to live but my 314 is distributed by Bell and was pressed at Monarch.

ROD

[Kegsy]

 

 

Regarding Goldwax #114 for the Ovations, do you know that UK Kent issued a CD titled "The Complete Goldwax Singles"?  Its liner-note shows Goldwax #114 is the same as its subsidiary label "Bandstand U.S.A. #1003 and the artist is Big Lucky Carter with Prince Gabe & The Millionaires, titles are  "Ohio Bound / Hurricane Blues".  So, I also doubt that the original of Goldwax #314 was reissued from #114.

 

Yes, saw that on one discography earlier, then saw another with Ovations as 114.

Manship makes no reference to 114 regarding Ovations so maybe 114 is a typo on the other discography.

 

The delta number quoted earlier doesn't help either as its only on styrene west coast copies.

 

Kegsy

[Kegsy]

I'm losing the will to live but my 314 is distributed by Bell and was pressed at Monarch.

ROD

 

Another odd thing is the dead wax width quoted in Manships book and the inverted V on my copy

are remarkably similar to what was discussed on a previous thread about Invitations Whats Wrong etc. also distributed by Bell.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Im looking forward to Dead Wax Widths - The Movie.

ROD

[Windlesoul]

#114 is one of those which is either very hard - or doesnt exist if the other discogs are correct. I have been collecting Goldwax over the last 18 months and have got virtually all of the 300 series, and about half of the 100 series. The 100 series is much harder to pick up, down to lower / local only pressing runs on some? 114 is one I dont have. Dave Rimmer does have it listed in his discog as 'They say' with the artist title as (feat Louis Williams) - Dave do you know where this info came from?

 

The blue ones I have are only (some of the) Ovations / James Carr releases and Ivory Joe Hunter (# 307 "Every Little Bit Helps"). If that bit about Bell releasing the blue ones in the early seventies for the Japanese market is correct, I'll have to start collecting the right colour!

 

There are a couple of much more recent dodgey (belgium?) gold and yellow jobs too I think, and a recent yellow / white EP.

 

I think Spencer Wiggins 118 - Love works that way / I'll be true to you has recently reissued too, done in the familiar yellow and white format (but odd though as this design only appeared in the 300s)

 

I also have to check this as I might be completely wrong, but got the Lyrics "Darling" as 45-910 which is a different number to discogs I have

 

Also, I wonder why no 200 series?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Windlesoul

[Picky]

#114 is one of those which is either very hard - or doesnt exist if the other discogs are correct. I have been collecting Goldwax over the last 18 months and have got virtually all of the 300 series, and about half of the 100 series. The 100 series is much harder to pick up, down to lower / local only pressing runs on some? 114 is one I dont have. Dave Rimmer does have it listed in his discog as 'They say' with the artist title as (feat Louis Williams) - Dave do you know where this info came from?

 

The blue ones I have are only (some of the) Ovations / James Carr releases and Ivory Joe Hunter (# 307 "Every Little Bit Helps"). If that bit about Bell releasing the blue ones in the early seventies for the Japanese market is correct, I'll have to start collecting the right colour!

 

There are a couple of much more recent dodgey (belgium?) gold and yellow jobs too I think, and a recent yellow / white EP.

 

I think Spencer Wiggins 118 - Love works that way / I'll be true to you has recently reissued too, done in the familiar yellow and white format (but odd though as this design only appeared in the 300s)

 

I also have to check this as I might be completely wrong, but got the Lyrics "Darling" as 45-910 which is a different number to discogs I have

 

Also, I wonder why no 200 series?

Regarding the Lyrics, I had both copies.

 

 

 

The first issue was by #910 which was distributed by London Records and Russel issued it as #101 because there was something wrong with the relationship between Russel and London Records.

[Dave Pinch]

me and my imagination b/w they say  made no 40 on the rnb charts in the usa on the 25th february 1967...so if it was bootlegged in 1966 it would be nothing short of a miracle.... i dont think it came out in 65 at all. gold wax 114 is unnissued i think  but 45 cat have it as big lucky carter `ohio bound`... the seller by the way is a friend of mine who only deals in originals

 

great record by the way

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlaFxrTTCDg

Edited December 6, 2013 by dave pinch

[Dean Rudland]

The Ovations original number was 314 and came out late 66 and as Dave says charted early the following year.

 

Spencer Wiggins on 118 is a 100% bootleg. 'Love Works' was recorded 3 years after the date that 118 would have come out if it existed.

[Windlesoul]

That explains why I could never find the original! So, no release at all for 118 in reality? If so that would make it the only 'missing' number in the series maybe?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Windlesoul

[Dean Rudland]

That explains why I could never find the original! So, no release at all for 118 in reality? If so that would make it the only 'missing' number in the 300 series maybe?

As far as I can see 114 and 118 are the two missing numbers.

114 was supposed to be Big Lucky Carter but we couldn't find any trace of its existence when we put together the Goldwax singles collection.

[Sean Hampsey]

me and my imagination b/w they say  made no 40 on the rnb charts in the usa on the 25th february 1967...so if it was bootlegged in 1966 it would be nothing short of a miracle.... i dont think it came out in 65 at all. gold wax 114 is unnissued i think  but 45 cat have it as big lucky carter `ohio bound`... the seller by the way is a friend of mine who only deals in originals

 

great record by the way

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlaFxrTTCDg

 

 

I have the same West Indian Stateside Dave. Had it for decades.

 

Love the title 'The Say' - like some kind of 60's dance craze!

 

A Definite original and the only way to own it

 

 

Sean

[Triode]

Im looking forward to Dead Wax Widths - The Movie.ROD

I hope Neil Rushton is not reading this.......!