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This R&b Thing ?


Guest Dave Ward

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Guest Dave Ward

My last all-nighter was 1985, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here, R&B to me was cool, not Northern Soul dance music, but cool. Why is there this hatred towards R&B now ? I've seen photo's of people wearing anti-R&B T-shirts ? Is it something todays DJ's are pushing, that offends people. A couple of examples I could hear or look up on YTube, would help me understand.

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My last all-nighter was 1985, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here, R&B to me was cool, not Northern Soul dance music, but cool. Why is there this hatred towards R&B now ? I've seen photo's of people wearing anti-R&B T-shirts ? Is it something todays DJ's are pushing, that offends people. A couple of examples I could hear or look up on YTube, would help me understand.

 

....."If it ain't Soul, it ain't Soul".......

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

 

P.s - Meant in the nicest possible way :wink: 

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My last all-nighter was 1985, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here, R&B to me was cool, not Northern Soul dance music, but cool. Why is there this hatred towards R&B now ? I've seen photo's of people wearing anti-R&B T-shirts ? Is it something todays DJ's are pushing, that offends people. A couple of examples I could hear or look up on YTube, would help me understand.

Ask Mace. He's been known to partake in the devils  music.  :shades:  Steve

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I think it's because it just went a bit too far back in time (literally, to the 50's) to the point where R & B was almost indistinguishable from rock & roll.  If you think of something brilliant like Jimmy Robbins - I Can't Please You, which people call R & B but I thunk is out and out Northern, then compare it to say Charles Sheffield, one is NS, the other is R&R.  

I like it but I think maybe some have pushed it to it's limits and it could live a happy life away from NS, and probably does anyway.

 

'kin well said!.....Jimmy Robbins - fantastic R'n'B Soul record...then people 'scraped that barrel' to be 'cutting edge'......"Put Jimmy Mack on FFS!!!"

 

Get me? :wink: 

 

Len :thumbsup: 

 

P.s - I did a couple of The Embankment Club Posters with "R'n'B stinks". on them...they went down rather well....ahem.....well Roger Banks thought they were hilarious......as did I.....after the death threats......

 

:excl: 

 

:D 

Edited by LEN
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'kin well said!.....Jimmy Robbins - fantastic R'n'B Soul record...then people 'scraped that barrel' to be 'cutting edge'......"Put Jimmy Mack on FFS!!!"

Get me? :wink:

Len :thumbsup:

P.s - I did a couple of The Embankment Club Posters with "R'n'B stinks". on them...they went down rather well....ahem.....well Roger Banks thought they were hilarious......as did I.....after the death threats......

:excl:

:D

Hiya Len

RnB stinks? Did you dislike it that much when it was played on the Mod Scene? I appreciate it's a different scene, but my RnB roots have never left me

Regards

Ali Bob :)

Edited by Alison H
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I always thought the problem was that some djs just ' overdid' the R and B thang.

ie? a whole hours spot! ..and this went on for some considerable time (as in years) Surely the point if your spinning at a SOUL night is to play a broad spectrum of sounds in your allocated hours spot. This overkill is really what stopped me going to Northern dos, I just got sick of it, and I'm Blues fan as well!

Edited by Jim Elliott
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Guest Matt Male

One man's RnB is another man's rock n roll, in the same one that one man's crossover is another man's slushy disco shite. If you get my drift. :thumbsup:

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Much prefer R&B myself simply as I've simply never been interested in the whole precious northen soul "scene" of obsessions with Wigan Casino and other all night venues from the 70's & 80's. It's a mod thing for me and the best events that I've attended cater for all, for example Go Go Children in Bristol.

 

However, I did have a laugh at an event last year where some chap thought it would be good to turn up in a t shirt that bore the somewhat pathetic legend that he'd rather drink his own piss than dance to R&B, but was spotted later throwing some shapes to Dorothy Williams Watchdog - I.R.O.N.Y.

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Lest we forget....

 

There is no such thing as Northern Soul, it's a term we invented...

 

If it sounds "right", it's in, be it R&b, Crossover, Modern, Popcorn or whatever the latest flavour of the month is.

Edited by Citizen P
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Guest in town Mikey

The best thing about RnB is it isnt Latin!!!

 

:wicked:

 

BTW I love Charles Sheffield. It passes the most stringent of criteria needed to be a Northern Soul record. If I think it is, then it is.  :thumbsup:

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The best thing about RnB is it isnt Latin!!!

 

:wicked:

 

BTW I love Charles Sheffield. It passes the most stringent of criteria needed to be a Northern Soul record. If I think it is, then it is.  :thumbsup:

 

I was never saying it wasn't a NS record, I was saying it's roots are nearer to rock and roll than they are to soul, seeing as 'soul' hadn't even been born when CS came out.

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Guest in town Mikey

I was never saying it wasn't a NS record, I was saying it's roots are nearer to rock and roll than they are to soul, seeing as 'soul' hadn't even been born when CS came out.

 

We are talking at cross purposes i think Pete. You talk about Soul. When has that been a factor in what is a Northern Soul record? :D  

Just beiong a bit silly. But there are other records that get played that IMO sound like rock n roll. To me Shefield is as good an RnB track as you can find.

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My last all-nighter was 1985, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here, R&B to me was cool, not Northern Soul dance music, but cool. Why is there this hatred towards R&B now ? I've seen photo's of people wearing anti-R&B T-shirts ? Is it something todays DJ's are pushing, that offends people. A couple of examples I could hear or look up on YTube, would help me understand.

Say you were at Prestatyn,this week-end,in the main room and the D.J.put on Little Queenie by Chuck Berry instead of Bill Black,s Combo or You,re Gonna Wreck My Life by Howlin, Wolf,not Guitar Ray in,say,the Redemption room.I suspect some of the reactions might help you in your quest!!! As far as I,m concerned it,s all variations on a theme.

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Guest penny

I think it's fair enough to define the parameters of what you want to play, or hear, at a night.

It's fair to say that 'northern soul' describes tracks that share something that is recognisable, just as the term 'r&b' does, and that this includes some tracks from the later, more soul-influenced end of tte r&b genre.

I think it is fair that only tracks that fit into the 'northern soul' genre, as recognised by fans of the genre, get played at a northern soul night and the complaint some have is that some tracks - I'm guessing the earlier or more jive tempo r&b tracks - do not sit within northern soul parameters.

which is fair enough, a line has to be drawn somewhere, even at the most open minded of nights.

The only argument is about where it is reasonable to draw the line.

not only the northern scene has these parameters, r&b nights would too - being happy to include, say, the one constellations track on gemini, at the more soul-influenced end of r&b, but almost definitely not the other constellations 45 on gemini.

I would put money that i am the most musically open minded person on here in terms of genre but at our night, we still had very definite parameters and didn't play 70s music for example, even though I love it, to give the night a clear musical identity and consistancy, and this is important.

Even within our parameters, like those of the northern scene, we had a ridiculous range to chose from, so it's absurd to say we were limiting ourselves.

I have actually experienced djing at a strict r&b night and hearing a complaint that it wasn't the right type of r&b being played! which shows that people can set their parameters too narrow, or maybe it just shows that some people are complete cocks.

the only debate to have really it whether the traditional parameters of northern soul are still relevant. As people have said - maybe the newer generations would rather have a bit of 50s r&b or funk and less of the 60s pop northern; a choice that a lot of the EUropean clubs seem to have made long ago and are now well on with setting their own parameters.

the question is do we want to do that here, or stick to these old traditional catagories, with parameters set long ago?

I know that most of my generation and younger ones find it absolutely bizarre to love one great piece of black dance music passionately but hate another from 5 years earlier.

mik.

Edited by penny
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Guest penny

While a lot of your post makes sense, that's an enormously audacious claim to make, Mik.

Sorry, didnt mean it in a competitive way at all, would have been better phrased 'I bet I am as musically open minded as anyone'

Cheers

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Sorry, didnt mean it in a competitive way at all, would have been better phrased 'I bet I am as musically open minded as anyone'

Cheers

 

 

Haha! No need to apologise - a bit of bravado keeps these threads interesting. Did sound a bit like a glove hitting the floor though :lol:

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I think it's fair enough to define the parameters of what you want to play, or hear, at a night.

It's fair to say that 'northern soul' describes tracks that share something that is recognisable, just as the term 'r&b' does, and that this includes some tracks from the later, more soul-influenced end of tte r&b genre.

I think it is fair that only tracks that fit into the 'northern soul' genre, as recognised by fans of the genre, get played at a northern soul night and the complaint some have is that some tracks - I'm guessing the earlier or more jive tempo r&b tracks - do not sit within northern soul parameters.

which is fair enough, a line has to be drawn somewhere, even at the most open minded of nights.

The only argument is about where it is reasonable to draw the line.

 

 

This is exactly what I was trying to say but was unable to put it across as well as this.  If it sounds like Northern, it's Northern.

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Guest Bearsy

I'm not a lover of so called RnB and never have been but then again I've been known to dance to so called RnB tunes and no doubt even own a few lol.  

Its the old scenario where in general you may not like a pigeon holed sub genre of "northern soul" but there will be certain tracks that do It for you but that for me is "northern soul" 

i have been subjected to some absolute rock n roll at some events where people have tried to hard to be too different.  Same applies to funk, disco etc etc etc but not the end of the world. 

GO Go in Bristol can play as a fair bit of RnB and I thought it might be a tad too much for my liking but was pleasantly suprised as it was balanced in nicely with just about everything else that was played and I danced all night each time I've been.   If you get the balance right it gives a bit of something for everyone and makes for a bloody good night.  Could I go to an RnB event ? No but it certainly has its place in this scene.  

Edited by Bearsy
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Guest penny

Haha! No need to apologise - a bit of bravado keeps these threads interesting. Did sound a bit like a glove hitting the floor though :lol:

Maybe you just saw it that way cos you're itching for duel?!

;-)

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Guest penny

Is this the usual soul-source 'it's an outrage' type hysteria, or has there been a lot of cases of rock & roll r&b being played at northern dos?

I mean, when I was out a lot I never heard much in the main rooms and I'm an r&b dj but even when I played at the 100 club the earliest thing I played was the gospel pearls...

anyone got any specific examples of inappropriate tracks that have been played?

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not only the northern scene has these parameters, r&b nights would too - being happy to include, say, the one constellations track on gemini, at the more soul-influenced end of r&b, but almost definitely not the other constellations 45 on gemini.

 

 

Can I just clarify this - are you saying The Constellations - I Didn't KNow How To is at the soulful end of R&B?

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Hi all. would you define R&B the following?

 

Lou Lawton "Knick Knack Paddy Wack"

Betty O'Brian "She'll Be Gone"

Irma & The Fascinators "Lost Love"

Larry Davies "I've Been Hurt So Many Times"

 

Andrea

Yes

Yes

No

No…………….. 

 

Thats where these discussions go pear shaped for me, everybody's definitions and perceptions are different :huh:

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Yes

Yes

No

No…………….. 

 

Thats where these discussions go pear shaped for me, everybody's definitions and perceptions are different :huh:

I agree. I don't particularly like R&B (actually it's not my cup of tea at all). But I find even the first two tunes close to my tastes which doesn't happen with most R&B stuff generally... who knows why... probably for the soulful edge they have?

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Yup Larry Davis is pure R&B and certainly lifts heavily off Willie Cobbs 'You don't love me'....it obviously fits the criteria required to make it acceptable to the Northern Soul Scene but this doesn't change its origin as a genre of music.

Edited by Mace
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Its back to the pigeon hole for Knick Knack Paddy Wack....  I call it " shite "....

 

Everytime i hear them words in the song at an event, i go into my bag and pull out a hammer and want to hurt someone.... :wicked: ..

 

Its the stuff at both ends of the so called scale that most folk can't take... That being 50s early 60s Rock n Roll  style and disco. at the other end..

 

 

 I am happy with that in the main...

 

So being from 1966 or thereabouts, and therefore slap bang in the middle, I take it that "Inky Dinky Wang Dang Do" is just about lyrical perfection for you then Stevie :lol:

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But the other three have had massive exposure/plays on the northern scene so that would make all four as northern as anything?  Maybe not your traditional northern but northern none the less.

 

Yes but only one is out and out Northern, the others are R&B played at Northern venues.  Whats that saying, just because a sheep is born in a barn it doesn't make it a horse.  Or something like that.

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Yes but only one is out and out Northern, the others are R&B played at Northern venues.  Whats that saying, just because a sheep is born in a barn it doesn't make it a horse.  Or something like that.

 

 

But Northern isn't a genre jet a term for a scene in the UK isn't it?  We could argue all day about specifics but to me if it is played at a Northern Venue then it's Northern.  No different to pop, soul and other genres of music being played at venues.  Leaving aside the Northern thing, what genre would you class Irma?

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But Northern isn't a genre jet a term for a scene in the UK isn't it?  We could argue all day about specifics but to me if it is played at a Northern Venue then it's Northern.  No different to pop, soul and other genres of music being played at venues.  Leaving aside the Northern thing, what genre would you class Irma?

 

Irma & F's,soul.Gritty soul that didn't sell much.

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I can't download on my phone, maybe a kind person could put a few tracks with an RnB flavour that have infected the world of " northern soul'..

 

Mickie Champion must have been one of the first - just another northern soul record in the 70's, but if it was discovered now, it would be R n B

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But Northern isn't a genre jet a term for a scene in the UK isn't it?  We could argue all day about specifics but to me if it is played at a Northern Venue then it's Northern.  No different to pop, soul and other genres of music being played at venues.  Leaving aside the Northern thing, what genre would you class Irma?

 

Northern, said so above.

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