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MBarrett

All Of Motown Versus All Of The Rest

All of Motown versus All of the Rest  

  1. 1. Is the Motown catalogue in total superior to all the rest that came in its wake?

    • Motown
      16
    • All the rest
      63


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O.K. let's have a lively debate. :D

 

My teenage years were from 1965 to 1971 so the Golden Age of Motown was the soundtrack of my teens.

 

And the music that became known as Northern Soul is almost always referenced back to Motown as its inspiration.

 

So here's the cruncher.

 

If you took the Motown catalogue in total - is it superior in quality to the combined catalogues of all the other labels that came in its wake? Or vice versa?

 

I vote for Motown. You . . . . . . . . . . ? 

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Considering the rest it annoys me a little that many people consider some of the other catalogues as some form of sub-Motown cast offs when the amount of differing styles one is confronted with, and let's face it some (some), of Motown's output can seem a little generic. Also the deeper influences in Motown can be found all across other labels output so it could beg the question 'who's zooming who?'. The delightful regional and cultural differences across the board make it the rest for me.  

Edited by jam66

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Recording techniques and production quality= Atlantic, every time . (RCA too ?)

 

Motown sure had the numbers and artist rosta, but they had some catching up to do when it came to production techniques. 

 

70's was a different matter, PIR had it sewn up 

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My first thought was all the rest,BUT.........

If you factor in some of the unreleased stuff, Brenda Holloway Lonely Girl, Edwin Starr Has It Happened to you yet,All I do, Love Starved

Heart etc. Associated labels RicTic, Mowest,Vip, Tamla, Gordy and the Jobette catalogue it could be a close run thing.

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Ric Tic is under all the rest.  It was competition bought by Gordy simply to eliminate the competition.

 

some fabulous recordings on Motown and its various labels, particulatly the unreleased stuff but too much rubbish and middle of the road pop for me, that's why i say the rest is streets ahead. Add up tne releases on the labels in Detroit alone and it would out shine even Motown.  Then all the Philly, New York, West Coast etc etc......

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My first thought was all the rest,BUT.........

If you factor in some of the unreleased stuff, Brenda Holloway Lonely Girl, Edwin Starr Has It Happened to you yet,All I do, Love Starved

Heart etc. Associated labels RicTic, Mowest,Vip, Tamla, Gordy and the Jobette catalogue it could be a close run thing.

 

Thanks. Even if the result end up very one-sided you can see what prompted my question. :thumbup:

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Guest Dave Turner

Motown and it's subs versus the combined works of Atlantic, Atco, Stax, Hi, Curtom, Sound Stage 7, Seventy Seven, Back Beat, Jewel, Ronn, Paula, Duke, Alston, Chess, Cadet, Checker, One-derful, Mar-V-Lus, Carnival, Dial, Dakar, Dade, Minit, Phil La of Soul, Revue, Uni etc etc etc etc.

 

Motown comes nowhere near

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Ric Tic is under all the rest.  It was competition bought by Gordy simply to eliminate the competition.

 

some fabulous recordings on Motown and its various labels, particulatly the unreleased stuff but too much rubbish and middle of the road pop for me, that's why i say the rest is streets ahead. Add up tne releases on the labels in Detroit alone and it would out shine even Motown.  Then all the Philly, New York, West Coast etc etc......

 

I had meant it to be the whole Motown stable inc. Ric Tic but that's my fault for not wording it properly. :yes:

 

In retrospect might have been better to pitch the 100 best of Motown v the 100 best of Other. It might still have given the same result but would at least have balanced up the numbers.

 

I'll save that for another day. :D

Edited by MBarrett

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I had meant it to be the whole Motown stable inc. Ric Tic but that's my fault for not wording it properly. :yes:

 

In retrospect might have been better to pitch the 100 best of Motown v the 100 best of Other. It might still have given the same result but would at least have balanced up the numbers.

 

I'll save that for another day. :D

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If we are saying are the best of the rest better overall then I agree easy. However, if we add in the worst it becomes  a much harder decision and I might actually say motown.

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I had meant it to be the whole Motown stable inc. Ric Tic but that's my fault for not wording it properly. :yes:

 

In retrospect might have been better to pitch the 100 best of Motown v the 100 best of Other. It might still have given the same result but would at least have balanced up the numbers.

 

I'll save that for another day. :D

well if the criteria is the 'the whole Motown stable inc Ric Tic' I don't think it is a match for 'Atlantic' alone - let alone 'the rest put together'  :yes:   Atlantic, Atco, Cotillion, Stax,Volt, Daker, Alston, Fame etc etc

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That's a real humdinger of a question but I,m going to pieces trying to love too when theres heartbreak dead ahead, I don't know where my interests lie is it out on the floor or is it in my seven rooms of gloom, please operator, I just don't know, I,m a shy guy, help me

 

Steve

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All the rest . Much as I love Motown its so predictable to the point that the newly unearthed stuff fails to excite me that much ( done it now :lol: ) Yet I am allways hearing new to my ears stuff from other labels that blow me away .

 Motown is great but the collective/creative output of the others is greater .

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All the rest by a long way, no contest for me although I like a bit of motown.

The northern classics are what I was introduced to so unlike those at the older end of the scale motown wasn't my first love :huh:  

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This poll seems to be a little unbalanced. It is like David (Motown) and Goliath (the rest). I'm going with Motown. You are pitting one company against all the others? That shows how mighty it really was/is!

I know I am biased but that one company put a city in high beams and spawned so many independent labels it is ridiculous. I will not mention the artists, musicians, producers, songwriters and classic songs it created. Motown actually made careers for so many people (30 years with a paycheck). Motown had to go up against the heavyweights like Atlantic, Chess and other labels who had a head start. Motown also has the heart of a whole generation with all the others sprinkled in.

I got a little carried away here and did not answer the question. I'll take Motown's catalog any day. Some of their 'B' sides were hits!

You all are right about the technical end improving, bit I still have my 78's, 45's and 33.3's in my closet. To this day, you hear Motown's songs in so many commercials all over the world. Motown has been copied, but never quite duplicated (I do not think).

Lorraine

Edited by lorchand

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This poll seems to be a little unbalanced. It is like David (Motown) and Goliath (the rest). I'm going with Motown. You are pitting one company against all the others? That shows how mighty it really was/is!

I know I am biased but that one company put a city in high beams and spawned so many independent labels it is ridiculous. I will not mention the artists, musicians, producers, songwriters and classic songs it created. Motown actually made careers for so many people (30 years with a paycheck). Motown had to go up against the heavyweights like Atlantic, Chess and other labels who had a head start. Motown also has the heart of a whole generation with all the others sprinkled in.

I got a little carried away here and did not answer the question. I'll take Motown's catalog any day. Some of their 'B' sides were hits!

You all are right about the technical end improving, bit I still have my 78's, 45's and 33.3's in my closet. To this day, you hear Motown's songs in so many commercials all over the world. Motown has been copied, but never quite duplicated (I do not think).

Lorraine

 

Hi Lorraine

 

Thanks so much for your post. Coming from inside the music industry that means a huge amount.

 

I appreciate it was a bit of a controversial thread to start and as I said above might have been better if I had pitched the hundred best of Motown against the hundred best of the rest. But i was trying to reflect the massive IMPACT and LEGACY of that one group of labels. I think you understood exactly where I was coming from.

 

Maybe in another thread I might pitch Motown male vocalists versus the rest or Motown female groups versus the rest. That might be a bit of fun. :D

 

Thanks again for your contribution :thumbup:

 

MB

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This is a ridiculous question.  But, if it were worded thusly:  "If only 1,000 recordings from Motown Corp. or 1,000 non-Motown recordings, recorded after 1966, existed, which group of 1,000 recordings would you choose to keep?"  -  I would keep the Motown recordings.  For me, if the choice were simply Motown vs, non-Motown recordings, Motown, alone, or even Detroit, alone, wouldn't have a chance against ALL other recordings, as I like thousands of recordings from the 1930s, '40s and '50s.  If considering only 1960s, Detroit and Chicago  vs, all others would win fairly easily, and Detroit alone vs. all others might lose slightly, but be fairly competitive.

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  "If only 1,000 recordings from Motown Corp. or 1,000 non-Motown recordings, recorded after 1966, existed, which group of 1,000 recordings would you choose to keep?"  -  I would keep the Motown recordings.

 

Hi Robb,

 

That is so funny because the way you worded it above is almost exactly the way I originally meant to the thread to be. But for some reason I changed my mind with the wording and now I'm stuck with it. I knew what I meant and assumed everyone else would. Wrong! :no:

 

But I did say the labels that followed in the wake of Motown so at least that excludes all your 1930s, 40s, and 50s recordings. :D

 

Anyway enough of my excuses!!

 

Even with my rubbish wording Motown stil on >20% so I'll live with that.

 

All the best

 

MB

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As many have said the question as stated is a little unfair in terms of the imbalance of numbers.

 

But I would like to turn it around slightly to ask. How many others (especially the small labels) would there have been, without Motown (as their inspiration)?

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I remember a Motown All-Dayer at Wigan, on a Sunday, or Bank Holiday, circa'78 hearing something like 8 solid hours of Motown, Tamla, Gordy etc. It ran out of steam pretty quickly, even with some top-line DJ's on. I'd struggle to get two Motown recordings in my top 20 NS sounds.

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I remember a Motown All-Dayer at Wigan, on a Sunday, or Bank Holiday, circa'78 hearing something like 8 solid hours of Motown, Tamla, Gordy etc. It ran out of steam pretty quickly, even with some top-line DJ's on. I'd struggle to get two Motown recordings in my top 20 NS sounds.

 

I've got one in my top 20 - Carolyn Crawford "Forget About Me"

If we were including Ric Tic "Please let Me In" would have been in there.

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As many have said the question as stated is a little unfair in terms of the imbalance of numbers.

 

But I would like to turn it around slightly to ask. How many others (especially the small labels) would there have been, without Motown (as their inspiration)?

Again. to turn it around slightly, How many others (especially the small labels) would there have been , without Motown driving them out of business ?  :o)

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Suspicion and Forever In My Heart would probably be in my top ten.  It would be hard to find 100 Motown as good as 100 from the best of the rest.  There are some brilliant records from the Motown stable but the rest some of the stuff is off the scale by comparison.

 

Ric Tic, Wingate, Golden World etc aren't Motown either.  They were competition run by rival label owners.  Gordy simply bought them to put them out of business and cream off the talent he wanted.  Who knows how great those label could have been if it wasn't for Gordy's dirty tricks.

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I have to agree with Robbk (p23) it's a ridiculous question. Motown was virtually one style... "It's the SAME old song".

The rest has hundreds of variations, having said that though some modern purists will say Northern is all the same.

Nowt like puttin' cat among pigeons is there! :)

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The Complete Motown Singles spans 75 CDs over 14 volumes, and there's plenty of quality along with some utter dross.  Ultimately there is so much variety along with the quality outside the Motown stable, that I'd have to go for the rest.

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Much as i would love to pick Motown, my boxes tell me different, maybe got about 20% Motown (or related) so going by original question i would have to pick the rest.

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only a bit of fun I know but also a bit of silly question IMO...no one label is better than ALL the rest

 

I think if you had your best1000 motown records and nothing else you'd get bored quicker than your best 1000 from all others..i know i would!

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In terms of "White Folks Buying Black Music" - which is what most of us (for our sins) are part of, if it had not been for Motown, the "Rest" would not have happened.

 

OK, I heard about Arthur Alexander and the Isleys via the Beatles first album in early1963, but later in the year they were doing Smokey and "Please Mister Postman".

 

A little digging soon unearthed the Oriole UK releases of Motown stuff.

 

The rest is history.

 

And the Rest followed :)

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Much as i would love to pick Motown, my boxes tell me different, maybe got about 20% Motown (or related) so going by original question i would have to pick the rest.

Same here love Motown but got more of the rest in my boxes....

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In terms of "White Folks Buying Black Music" - which is what most of us (for our sins) are part of, if it had not been for Motown, the "Rest" would not have happened.

 

OK, I heard about Arthur Alexander and the Isleys via the Beatles first album in early1963, but later in the year they were doing Smokey and "Please Mister Postman".

 

A little digging soon unearthed the Oriole UK releases of Motown stuff.

 

The rest is history.

 

And the Rest followed :)

 

The rest didn't follow, they were in competition with Motown, Motown was responsible for putting plenty out of business, stopping them charting and those they couldn't have any influence over they bought.  Granted many labels tried to recreate the Motown Sound and get the money Motown was but they were there at the same time, some actually making records for the local black market Motown was neglecting in pursuit of the riches the white pop market brought them from what i can see.

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At its height, Motown was more prolific, creative, successful and influential than any other record company, and its music has matured amazingly well with the passing of time, but the outputs of other companies should never be overlooked and it seems pointless to make general comparisons with rival organisations - such as Stax, for example - who had a very different sound and a different culture.

 

I love Motown and admire its achievements but it's also worth remembering they were sometimes domineering and even destructive to others, such as Golden World / Wingate / Ric-Tic who they purchased to silence.  They were also greedy and stubborn enough to lose their hitmakers Holland-Dozier-Holland and arrogant enough to lose some or their artists by treating them like second-class citizens, foolishly believing that Motown itself was more important than the talented people who built it.

And, finally, after turning its back on Detroit, Motown gradually lost its unique musical identity as it focused on the glitz of Hollywood.  The result was that it became just another record company.


But, musically, there are thousands of Motown tracks which I'll always cherish.

Paul

 

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The rest didn't follow, they were in competition with Motown,

But I'm not talking about "they" - I'm talking about US.

 

Hits, and indeed, music trends are created, largely by record buyers, not Record Companies.

 

That was certainly the case in the UK in the 60's.

 

The likes of the Beatles and Stones awaked our interest in RnB and Soul, and then we went out and bought it.

 

In 1963/4, I was buying Blues - and may well have continued, if Motown had not happened.

 

Yes, Stax, Atlantic,the Soul Supply series, Chess et al all followed.

 

But Motown was pivotal.

 

I'm sure you'll disagree, but there we go :wink:

Edited by soash

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