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Tmg Or Us Original, Which Would You Go For Generally?

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Ok, so after many, many years in the CD and mp3 wilderness I'm buying northern and motown vinyl again.

 

I've set myself a simple rule - 1st issues only and only records I really really like. Not planning to buy any UK issues.

 

However I notice that people get quite hot under the collar and passionate about the UK black TMGs, particularly 500-599, and less so about original US Tamla, Gordy etc...

 

See, I'm more excited about a Tamla, Soul, Gordy, Motown original, as I imagine that is the piece of vinyl you would walk out of a store with in Detroit in '65. So I see it as an original historical artefact as well as a cracking record.

 

Is it a UK collector thing or as a general rule are the UK TMGs better - I've heard that the sound is clearer? Must admit the TMGs I've got are all pretty crisp - Stevie Wonder's I Was Made To Love Her is massively loud and powerful.

 

So before I spend a lot of wedge on US Motown and not TMG, any of you knowledgable motown junkies think I'm making a big mistake? Your views'll be much appreciated and may help me decide which way to go.

 

Cheers in advance, Stu

 

ps Mike, I can't add any tags to this - are they disabled?

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Ok, so after many, many years in the CD and mp3 wilderness I'm buying northern and motown vinyl again.

 

I've set myself a simple rule - 1st issues only and only records I really really like. Not planning to buy any UK issues.

 

However I notice that people get quite hot under the collar and passionate about the UK black TMGs, particularly 500-599, and less so about original US Tamla, Gordy etc...

 

See, I'm more excited about a Tamla, Soul, Gordy, Motown original, as I imagine that is the piece of vinyl you would walk out of a store with in Detroit in '65. So I see it as an original historical artefact as well as a cracking record.

 

Is it a UK collector thing or as a general rule are the UK TMGs better - I've heard that the sound is clearer? Must admit the TMGs I've got are all pretty crisp - Stevie Wonder's I Was Made To Love Her is massively loud and powerful.

 

So before I spend a lot of wedge on US Motown and not TMG, any of you knowledgable motown junkies think I'm making a big mistake? Your views'll be much appreciated and may help me decide which way to go.

 

Cheers in advance, Stu

 

ps Mike, I can't add any tags to this - are they disabled?

 

Evening Stu :hatsoff2:

 

I've recently started collecting again and always prefer US releases. I don't know why - but I just don't buy UK. Lots of people do the opposite.

 

Peter

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IF you decide to buy UK Tamla Motown's you'll pay tons more than US ones...

Why tho? I may be a bit simple but (unless you are a UK issues collector) why on earth would you not buy the US original, like you say if they are cheaper. US singles are exotic, slightly other worldly, wonderful! UK singles remind me of black n white telly and tins of corned beef and Magpie.

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This is good thread , I only started buying Motown related singles a couple of years ago because I think we become Northern Soul snobs and actually forget where a lot of it started music wise , me included , but there are so many great 45's out there at decent prices imho  :hatsoff2:

 

 

 

Swifty :thumbsup:

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as a UK Motown collector I'd say they are made of better quality vinyl than there US counterparts but I am biased :-)  and some of the UK singles are scarce (if not bloody rare) hence being dear compared to the US ones

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When I first started collecting I tried with Limited success to find the UK Tamla Motown 500-599, 600-699 etc

As Pete says you will pay a lot more for certain UK Titles.

 

I soon turned my attention to the US.

You can always find something of Interest.

 

I have found a lot of pleasure picking up the USA singles from Various different Pressing Plants Including the DEMOs for each.

Many USA can be quite Rare now for certain DEMOs and Stock Copies, especially when looking for a particular pressing plant.

Even these can still be found at an affordable price if you are lucky.

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Why tho? I may be a bit simple but (unless you are a UK issues collector) why on earth would you not buy the US original, like you say if they are cheaper. US singles are exotic, slightly other worldly, wonderful! UK singles remind me of black n white telly and tins of corned beef and Magpie.

 

Asking someone who's probably spent £50,000 on UK label records why to buy British is probably not the way to go  :lol:

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US it is then, thanks for the info guys. I take Dave's point about the vinyl quality I guess they were all pressed by EMI?

However, I want my records to really be evocative and have a real connection to where and when they were made. Sorry Pete, whaddo I know...didn't mean to insult UK collectors with such a sweeping and patronising statement.

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Stu

I'm in no way a British collector but over the past couple of years or so when I'm looking for something and come across a UK copy at similar price (give or take a few quid) I've found myself going for the UK copy above the US one,no idea why really.Recently got a lovely green & white TMG demo of Smokey Robinson-More Love.

Cheers

Martyn

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Stu

I'm in no way a British collector but over the past couple of years or so when I'm looking for something and come across a UK copy at similar price (give or take a few quid) I've found myself going for the UK copy above the US one,no idea why really.Recently got a lovely green & white TMG demo of Smokey Robinson-More Love.

Cheers

Martyn

It's probably me Martyn, I've got a bee in my bonnet at the moment about buying 'original' issues. Way back when my box was full of boot, repros, 70s reissues Casino Classics, Destiny, all that stuff - I've had a bellyful of it, so to me a UK issue is not an original (unless it's a UK artist - Julian Covey etc.).

 

See More Love (superb record) for me would have to be Tamla or Tamla demo. end of.

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It's probably me Martyn, I've got a bee in my bonnet at the moment about buying 'original' issues. Way back when my box was full of boot, repros, 70s reissues Casino Classics, Destiny, all that stuff - I've had a bellyful of it, so to me a UK issue is not an original (unless it's a UK artist - Julian Covey etc.).

 

See More Love (superb record) for me would have to be Tamla or Tamla demo. end of.

 

Nowadays I don't care - I'll buy it on whatever is the cheapest label, if that means Steptoes white label specials, it'll do...I've done all my collecting

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Evening Stu :hatsoff2:

 

I've recently started collecting again and always prefer US releases. I don't know why - but I just don't buy UK. Lots of people do the opposite.

 

Peter

Peter, I know you see a record as more than just a tune that comes out of your speakers? An actual piece of US culture? That's why I buy US and i reckon that's why you buy it. Don't get me wrong I'm not an Americanophile (??!!!) but soul is American through to the bone.

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US singles are exotic, slightly other worldly, wonderful! UK singles remind me of black n white telly and tins of corned beef and Magpie.

 

A nostalgia thing about UK releases was the excitement of finding something good in a local junk shop or similar, especially if you're old enough to remember the days before imports were common.

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Two  Motown tunes off the top of my head .one got a UK issue the other didnt. TMG 507 Four Tops. Ask the lonely.                         Tamla. Linda Grinner. Goodbye cruel love. So you may have to buy both depending on what you want.                                       Someone's going to prove me wrong now with the Linda Grinner and say it got a UK release. Steve

Edited by Winsford Soul

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For me there is an allure in both,   As you rightly say the idea of someone buying the U.S.stuff back in the day and its otherworldly feel , this is stuff i identify strongly with,                                                                                                                                 British  releases  also have a magic about them do they not , although different in nature to the feelings American stuff creates ( who feels it ,knows it )   possibly even more potent, not exactly sure why  , but there is something about the font used on the early tmg releases that does it for me  They have a beauty and  physical quality of production that deteriorated all the way to the mp3 , its a lot more than that i know , and it applies to releases other than motown of course.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      There is for me also an otherworldly feel about the U.k 45s  after all for me they were released a few years before i became aware of them, probably played at hip clubs in swinging sixties Britain,or whatever,    Put a u.k. tamla motown 65 release alongside say a 72 release  and its Bond street against Primark. like i say am not exactly sure why , but its there . Of one thing there is no doubt , the U.S. 45S are cheaper.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

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Well put Carts, I see what you mean. The black label with that '45' and the little bit of text near the hole is great - and I imagine a full set of them would be something pretty wonderful.

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I 'collect' (used loosely) or buy really, Import or UK issues/demos, whatever is easiest to source and acceptable to play out, as long as they do play well, having said that, and not just for the value, I would gladly swap all my US Motown for UK equivalents in a heartbeat, and I'm not totally sure why  :g: 

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I reckon the appeal of UK issues may be because it's all on one label? Imagine if every US release was on Gordy instead of five or six (more if you include Weed, MoWest etc) different labels. I reckon the urge to build up a massive collection of those lovely purple labels would be too hard to resist.

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Stu There's also Marvin Gaye. Love starved heart which apart from Chris kings birthday single never got a UK release as far as I'm aware. There must be loads more. Good luck with whatever path you wonder down. Steve

Would have liked that mint one that JM auctioned t'other week! Pic sleeve n all. That'd be a good one to kick off the collection all right.

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Stu. Sold mine last year when I let my collection go. Along with Linda Grinner on Canadian and a few 500 series .plus some nice stateside bits. Guess what I've just bought back. My original Linda Grinner. It just had to be. Steve

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Here is one of the reasons why I love collecting the US stuff.

There is so much to collect for one release number.

 

 

EAST COAST : "Arp" DEMO Credited to The Elgins
 
VIP_25029-A_DJ.jpgVIP_25029-B_DJ.jpg

 

EAST COAST : "Arp" Stock Copy Credited to THE DOWNBEATS

PopSike.com
190653834747.jpg

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

However, It is the MIDWEST Copies that carry THE DOWNBEATS as a DEMO Format

Here it is with "THE ELGINS" Sticker over THE DOWNBEATS Printed Label Credit

 

MIDWEST :

 

VIP_25029-A_DJ_MW.jpgVIP_25029-B_DJ_MW.jpg

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
WEST COAST : Monarch
 
VIP_25029-A_DJ.pngVIP_25029-B_DJ.png

 

This is a DEMO on the Early V.I.P. Design yet it is credited to ELGINS not DOWNBEATS

The West Coast Monarchs tended to keep the Early Design for a longer period across the Motown Catalogue.

I would love to see a West Coast Stock Copy with the early design if one does exist.

As already mentioned, the name change happened quite late in the printing / pressing stage.

 

 

Here is a West Coast copy with the Later Design and ELGINS Credit

Could this be the only West Coast Stock Copy Design

 

VIP_25029-A_WC.jpgVIP_25029-B_WC.jpg

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just a small point ,but the UK releases are not just on one label they are on London then Fontana ,Oriole ,Stateside and last but not least Tamla Motown ( for the 60's releases)

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Here is one of the reasons why I love collecting the US stuff.

There is so much to collect for one release number.

 

 

EAST COAST : "Arp" DEMO Credited to The Elgins

 

VIP_25029-A_DJ.jpgVIP_25029-B_DJ.jpg

 

EAST COAST : "Arp" Stock Copy Credited to THE DOWNBEATS

PopSike.com

190653834747.jpg

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

However, It is the MIDWEST Copies that carry THE DOWNBEATS as a DEMO Format

Here it is with "THE ELGINS" Sticker over THE DOWNBEATS Printed Label Credit

 

MIDWEST :

 

VIP_25029-A_DJ_MW.jpgVIP_25029-B_DJ_MW.jpg

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

WEST COAST : Monarch

 

VIP_25029-A_DJ.pngVIP_25029-B_DJ.png

 

This is a DEMO on the Early V.I.P. Design yet it is credited to ELGINS not DOWNBEATS

The West Coast Monarchs tended to keep the Early Design for a longer period across the Motown Catalogue.

I would love to see a West Coast Stock Copy with the early design if one does exist.

As already mentioned, the name change happened quite late in the printing / pressing stage.

 

 

Here is a West Coast copy with the Later Design and ELGINS Credit

Could this be the only West Coast Stock Copy Design

 

VIP_25029-A_WC.jpgVIP_25029-B_WC.jpg

This is one of the reasons I like this site so much. The depths of knowledge and passion for the music sometimes amazes me. Thanks. Steve

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just a small point ,but the UK releases are not just on one label they are on London then Fontana ,Oriole ,Stateside and last but not least Tamla Motown ( for the 60's releases)

Yep I have a tendency to generalise! Initially I did mean the black TMG series. I remember reading a Record collector article on rare UK motown in the 90s and the Oriole release of Mike & The Modifiers and the Valadiers were massively rare.

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Something here for you TMG (+TME & TML) collectors. An ad from the week that the Tamla Motown label was launched in the U.K. I think I've got the exact date here somewhere but May 1965 anyway.

 

(something else to follow if I don't fall asleep in the meantime)

 

gallery_6836_1066_15930.jpg

Edited by MBarrett

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Another ad from the launch of Tamla Motown in the U.K.

 

They launched the label with 6 LPs and 6 EPs (pictured in the ad.)

 

And 6 singles which were:

TMG 501 The Supremes: Stop! In The Name Of Love / I'm In Love Again

TMG 502 Martha & The Vandellas: Nowhere To Run / Motoring

TMG 503 The Miracles: OOO Baby Baby / All That's Good

TMG 504 The Temptations: It's Growing / What Love has Joined Together

TMG 505 Stevie Wonder: Kiss Me Baby / Tears In Vain

TMG 506 Earl Van Dyke & The Soul Brothers: All For You / Too Many Fish In The Sea

 

 

gallery_6836_1066_65684.jpg

Edited by MBarrett

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I was a TMG collector from 1968 to 1973.

Can't remember the last 45 I had......it was about the time of Superwoman by Stevie. Can't quite remember, it got patchy, and I lost interest.

However, I had every TMG bar two by 1970 (I think).....Dorsey Burnette and Choker Campbell. Saw an ad for Choker Campbell, and sent for it...I think it was 70 shillings.

It duly arrived in about 4 pieces! and I lost heart after that, didn't think I'd get another.

Me and my Motown mate used to bunk off school and visit record shops around Manchester. We'd ask for any Tamla Motown off the shelves, and it was surprising what non-specialist shops had ..i.e. not Ralph's, Hime & Addison ...just local shops.

I could spot an orange TM sleeve from a 100 yards  :)  :)

 

I loved those exploring days....and long before web sites, magazines etc, it was difficult to get a complete discography.

I think it was Barry's on Bridge street...memory going...that had a battered exercise book with 45 label catalogue numbers.....from there I copied and compiled my TMG list and wants. I looked back at my log book some years ago, and it made me smile as to some of the titles that eventually proved incorrect.

 

I can vividly recall buying many discs blind, and lovingly studying label, writers, producers etc....

I miss those days.

 

Eventually sold them to a dealer (from Brighton I seem to recall) at a fair in Manchester. I was no longer collecting or really on the soul scene by now. I saw the fair and popped in, just for old times sake. I couldn't believe the prices being asked for some TMGs.

I told the dealer I had virtually all of them......he wasn't convinced, and I had to pass the 'knowledge' as it were.

He graded the TMGs into groups....each with a price....and I told him what I had. He quoted me some prices, and I went home and returned with a suitcase full of TMGs.

 

I must have pocketed about £350-400 .....It seemed worth it.....the thrill had gone, as they say. 

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Guest turntableterra

a good reason to buy tamla motown rather than MOTOWN ET AL Is, as someone said earlier, most of the good stuff got pulled together under one label. If you wanted many of them on us label then you would be searching through a plethora of motown owned labels. but even in the usa the best stuff on most all labels is in the first 100 releases. and again as someone said there is releases on  motown et al  not released in uk and some released as a sides rather than b sides. forget me not (if memory serves) as a case in point but many others.

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There have been some great comments in previous posts and G&W and R&W UK demos are a real thing of beauty. But the most compelling reason not to collect British TMG and other releases is that they don't fit on your thumb. ;)

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US for me, the TMG's have never really had any appeal

Am I right in thinking that this is generally speaking an age thing? 

ie TMG collectors are the older generation who were active in the 60s and very early 70s before imports were common.

Any avid UK collectors under the age of 55 please put your hand up

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Two  Motown tunes off the top of my head .one got a UK issue the other didnt. TMG 507 Four Tops. Ask the lonely.                         Tamla. Linda Grinner. Goodbye cruel love. So you may have to buy both depending on what you want.                                       Someone's going to prove me wrong now with the Linda Grinner and say it got a UK release. Ste

forget that put me glasses on now  :yes:

kev

Edited by kevinsoulman

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US for me, the TMG's have never really had any appeal

Am I right in thinking that this is generally speaking an age thing? 

ie TMG collectors are the older generation who were active in the 60s and very early 70s before imports were common.

Any avid UK collectors under the age of 55 please put your hand up

 

52 uk all the way :thumbsup: .Apart from the items that are import only of course,but if theres a uk release my import can go these days.Cant really explain why but import next to uk issue,nah thanks.

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Whether you collect UK or US they are wonderful all lined up in a collection.

 

Music downloads may give listening pleasure but a record is a thing of beauty to view and to own.

 

GORDY_7032-A_DJ_WC.jpg

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Whether you collect UK or US they are wonderful all lined up in a collection.

 

Music downloads may give listening pleasure but a record is a thing of beauty to view and to own.

 

Couldn't agree more but it's a bit of guilty secret don't you think as you can't talk to "normal" people about how the design of a records excites you or as someone mentioned early how a type face looks.This is before we've even dropped a needle on it,to most of the population it sounds weird but what do they know :g:

My names Martyn Bird & I'm a vinyl addict :lol:

Cheers

Martyn

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Two  Motown tunes off the top of my head .one got a UK issue the other didnt. TMG 507 Four Tops. Ask the lonely.                         Tamla. Linda Grinner. Goodbye cruel love. So you may have to buy both depending on what you want.                                       Someone's going to prove me wrong now with the Linda Grinner and say it got a UK release. Steve

I'm answering my own posts now. Previous post looked like a meant four tops didn't get a US release. I know it did, just been a sick. Steve

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I bet none of you have got this one.

It's for sale.

Earl Van Dyke - All For You - Rediffusion 78rpm 10" acetate.

This was used on the Dusty / Motown special all the way through as backing music, and this came from someone who used to work for the TV company.

 

post-1893-0-34373600-1394280700_thumb.jp

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I bet none of you have got this one.

It's for sale.

Earl Van Dyke - All For You - Rediffusion 78rpm 10" acetate.

This was used on the Dusty / Motown special all the way through as backing music, and this came from someone who used to work for the TV company.

 

attachicon.gifearl.jpg

Pete you and others on here turn up some special things.it never cease to amaze me what . Steve

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I bet none of you have got this one.

It's for sale.

Earl Van Dyke - All For You - Rediffusion 78rpm 10" acetate.

This was used on the Dusty / Motown special all the way through as backing music, and this came from someone who used to work for the TV company.

 

attachicon.gifearl.jpg

with that provenence it should be worth a fortune pete

 

kev

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If I was starting a collection now I would probably buy U.S 45's you can get a nice selection of titles at a reasonable cost the thing with UK TMGs they are always sort after and hold a good price for issue and demos if you can find them but saying that its also the enjoyment of collecting is the find when it happens !

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US for me, the TMG's have never really had any appeal

Am I right in thinking that this is generally speaking an age thing? 

ie TMG collectors are the older generation who were active in the 60s and very early 70s before imports were common.

Any avid UK collectors under the age of 55 please put your hand up

well that's me then i'll be 52 in April and would rather have a UK issue of a single than a US one were available , but don't ask why because I really couldn't tell you

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