Any Rocksteady Experts Here ?

[Chris L]

Is this the Jamaican release of "How long Will It Take" ?

Thanks Chris

[Pete S]

No, it's a 70's re recording and reissue.  Original Jamaican release is actually on Pama.  And it's reggae not rocksteady, to be accurate

[TOAD]

Most Jamaican artists re recorded there songs and updated them frequently. And do not take youtube as the correct original mix,plenty of mistakes there

[Chris L]

No, it's a 70's re recording and reissue.  Original Jamaican release is actually on Pama.  And it's reggae not rocksteady, to be accurate

 

Hhmmm............................

[Chris L]

I have it on UK Gas, bit crackly though, wouldn't mind a better one.............

[Pete S]

Hhmmm............................

 

There's no Hmmm about it, Rocksteady was officially pronounced dead in early 1968, there are very few examples of the rocksteady rhythm being created after 1967, Pat kelly is pure reggae.

[Cunnie]

My Aussie issue copy here. 
 

[Benji]

There's no Hmmm about it, Rocksteady was officially pronounced dead in early 1968, there are very few examples of the rocksteady rhythm being created after 1967, Pat kelly is pure reggae.

 

Compared to Pete I know f*ck all about Rocksteady or Reggae. But he's right. Pure Reggae rhythm.

[Guest john s]

I think that's actually an 80's version, the (great)  70's cut produced by Vivian Jackson is on Prophets (JA) and Nationwide (UK).

[Chris L]

Is this reggae too then ?

 

[Chris L]

There's no Hmmm about it, Rocksteady was officially pronounced dead in early 1968, there are very few examples of the rocksteady rhythm being created after 1967, Pat kelly is pure reggae.

 

I was about at the time Pete, I don't remember any post mortem  I was out of the scene by 1969/70-ish  I really can't remember calling it reggae 

[Chris L]

Compared to Pete I know f*ck all about Rocksteady or Reggae. But he's right. Pure Reggae rhythm.

 

That's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it ? 

Edited March 26, 2014 by Chris L

[Pete S]

I was about at the time Pete, I don't remember any post mortem  I was out of the scene by 1969/70-ish  I really can't remember calling it reggae 

 

Well you either called it blue beat or reggae - nobody called it ska and rocksteady at that time

[Cutdown69]

There's a poster for the Roaring Twenties club in the new Mods book by Paul Smiler Anderson which states 'the only West End club playimg R&B, Ska,Rocksteady 7 nights a week' which suggest these terms were known and used in mid to late 60's, in London at least

[TOAD]

Why would they be playing ska and rocksteady at the same time anyone who knows about Jamaican music knows it's all about new release records!!!

[Tlscapital]

Why would they be playing ska and rocksteady at the same time anyone who knows about Jamaican music knows it's all about new release records!!!

That is why;  &  Blue Beat was common amongst the white folks (mods & skinheads) but "ska" was the "root" terminology ! Island's compilation Club Ska 67 was a success and in the UK it was the main competitor to the Blue Beat label.

[Tlscapital]

I believe the clubs still played some ska standards of their own next to the rock steady newies and imports if they had some.

[Kegsy]

Why would they be playing ska and rocksteady at the same time anyone who knows about Jamaican music knows it's all about new release records!!!

 

 

I would suggest because the club was a "mod" place not a Jamaican club/blues/shabeen where, as you say,

new releases would have been the order of the day.

[TOAD]

I believe the clubs still played some ska standards of their own next to the rock steady newies and imports if they had some.

that sounds a better reasoning. But mod was dead by 67

[TOAD]

Blue beat was the term used in England Jamaicans called it ska there's even a record saying this.

[TOAD]

That is why; Capture d’écran 2014-04-21 à 15.13.41.png & Capture d’écran 2014-04-21 à 15.14.01.png Blue Beat was common amongst the white folks (mods & skinheads) but "ska" was the "root" terminology ! Island's compilation Club Ska 67 was a success and in the UK it was the main competitor to the Blue Beat label.

really? Do you get all your information out of mod books!!!!

[Tlscapital]

Not books, and I never was a mod am proud to say. I had mod friends though. Only with the years and the time I've spent collecting with my pennies before any of those 45 bared 2 figures price tags and by trying to understand it way before the net, books about it and other sources. Blue Beat was a label in London and not a sound as such since they mainly issued Jamaican prod. and even had a deal with P. Buster. But the "Blue Beat" craze (1964) was just a cash-in phenomenom that stayed "glued" to it even in popular circles and so used to define that sort of Jamaican influenced even if not IT until the early 7T's it seems. Maybe I'm not accurate enough, but all the titles baring 'blue beat' in their song title or lyrics are all crappy British productions as far as I've heard.

[Tlscapital]

that sounds a better reasoning. But mod was dead by 67

Dead but some guys were still there, into it and a new generation was getting into it. I could imagine a transitional gap between the after and the before... Maybe, I wasn't there or have never been told by anyone who was. And even listening like reading always requires caution and prudence about "the truth".

[Chris L]

I would suggest because the club was a "mod" place not a Jamaican club/blues/shabeen where, as you say,

new releases would have been the order of the day.

 

There used to be a club called The Alphabet, probably the most frighting place I've ever visited, me and my 2 mates were the only white blokes there, they were not happy to see us   The DJ bought almost everything from 2 shops (so he told us) one of them was Record Corner.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Chris L

[Pete S]

That is why; Capture d’écran 2014-04-21 à 15.13.41.png & Capture d’écran 2014-04-21 à 15.14.01.png Blue Beat was common amongst the white folks (mods & skinheads) but "ska" was the "root" terminology ! Island's compilation Club Ska 67 was a success and in the UK it was the main competitor to the Blue Beat label.

 

Those albums contained 45's popular over a two year period so they both include Ska and Rocksteady.

[Pete S]

Not books, and I never was a mod am proud to say. I had mod friends though. Only with the years and the time I've spent collecting with my pennies before any of those 45 bared 2 figures price tags and by trying to understand it way before the net, books about it and other sources. Blue Beat was a label in London and not a sound as such since they mainly issued Jamaican prod. and even had a deal with P. Buster. But the "Blue Beat" craze (1964) was just a cash-in phenomenom that stayed "glued" to it even in popular circles and so used to define that sort of Jamaican influenced even if not IT until the early 7T's it seems. Maybe I'm not accurate enough, but all the titles baring 'blue beat' in their song title or lyrics are all crappy British productions as far as I've heard.

 

Blue Beat was the generic term for ska, rocksteady and reggae as late as 1969 when it all started to become called Reggae, one of the music mags had a regular Blue Beat column.

[Tlscapital]

Not going against that generic thing, I said it before it became a popular term, only "blue beat" is not a music style, or is it ? If the beat was blue, maybe I'm color blind. Just a label that dished the best and the worst (Azie Lawrence...) of what the would issue in the UK and not a genre of music as such. Or you would go Island, R'n'B, Ska Beat... What ? And exactly, why "Blue Beat" as a genre ? Everything Prince Buster-wise ? Don't think so. Chris Blackwell, a crook, most likely. Ska beat a sound ? I don't think so. Ask Georgie Fame E. P. ? Or the dreadful Ember "Flamingoes" E. P. series ? blue beat a great label outings though. Just like all those UK labels, there then and after. Only, not a genre of music; A LABEL that's all !

Edited April 21, 2014 by tlscapital

[Guest john s]

What Pete said.

[Cutdown69]

So why would the Roaring twenties club poster not just refer to the generic term 'Blue beat' ? 

[Tlscapital]

So why would the Roaring twenties club poster not just refer to the generic term 'Blue beat' ? 

OK I didn't want to be "harsh" to anyone if ever I did, but between those qualifications for those defined sounds from Jamaica (1959 (!?) to 1969+) once called Ska, Rock Steady and Reggae (if the spelling can be right) to put it under a UK label name like Blue Beat, is just too short for me. Like Pete Smith pointed out, the year it was made calls it first even though you have all the musical transitions growing in betweens accordingly. Ska nowadays can be anything (even if I think it isn't) by nowadays standard (2-Tone is still proper) and reggae, well this has been all over the place (everybody likes reggae) so now you can hear some say it's a rock steady nite to part safe with the rest of it to point out that it's (should be) the "real" good stuff. I'm not British and the term "blue beat" calls the mod scene and what followed a little too much for me. I love music, not so much of scenes. Or more and more music and less and less scenes... Plead; guilty as charged. Peace.

[martynthejazz]

Some info here, im new to all this Blue Beat , Ska, music...Being a northern soul, jazz, man.....But just in case you are not aware, You can pick up All of the Blue Beat A & B sides on triple cd box sets at a great price on  Not Now Music....they also have the vinyl out , but with only the A sides on them.....All top quality, and no doubt one day become deleted and rare.....Note for some reason the Blue Beat tracks are also out on cd by another label, Sunrise ?.....can,t see the point to be honest....as you can,t really collect both labels, as the tracks will no doubt be the same in places.....So anyone who wants vinyl  180gr  double lps, you can,t go far wrong with the Not Now series......

And no I don,t work for the company.....But I have just ordered the whole lot......get them while you can.....

Edited May 13, 2014 by martynthejazz

[Pete S]

Some info here, im new to all this Blue Beat , Ska, music...Being a northern soul, jazz, man.....But just in case you are not aware, You can pick up All of the Blue Beat A & B sides on triple cd box sets at a great price on  Not Now Music....they also have the vinyl out , but with only the A sides on them.....All top quality, and no doubt one day become deleted and rare.....Note for some reason the Blue Beat tracks are also out on cd by another label, Sunrise ?.....can,t see the point to be honest....as you can,t really collect both labels, as the tracks will no doubt be the same in places.....So anyone who wants vinyl  180gr  double lps, you can,t go far wrong with the Not Now series......

And no I don,t work for the company.....But I have just ordered the whole lot......get them while you can.....

 

I don't think you can get all the Blue Beat releases, only releases before 1963 or something like that...the label ran until 1967 and issued 400 singles

[TOAD]

Another recently issued CD that's worth picking up is downbeat shuffle it also contains blue beat singles plus a few unissued in the UK and all for under a tenner for three cds

[martynthejazz]

Pete s  ,   Correct mate..its the first 125  or so 45s.....But these are well worth having....ill hunt a bit deeper for any more at a later date...some great music on these...

Who owns the right to the records after 1963 ?    Wonder if they will ever get released ?....

Edited May 13, 2014 by martynthejazz

[Pete S]

Pete s  ,   Correct mate..its the first 125  or so 45s.....But these are well worth having....ill hunt a bit deeper for any more at a later date...some great music on these...

Who owns the right to the records after 1963 ?    Wonder if they will ever get released ?....

 

Doubt it. The older ones are out of copyright so they cut off just as ska is beginning to form, all these early ones are r & b and ballads really - not that there's anything wrong with that.  If you think, Prince Buster alone had at least 50 releases on the label, he won't let his stuff out to anyone who won't pay for it.

I think I've got all of the Blue Beat releases from start to finish but where, goodness knows

[martynthejazz]

Thanks for info, well received my 5 triple CD box sets today, not a bad price really, all on , not now music, got all the A sides on there vinyl double LPs also....lol....may as well get them while I can...The other CDs out there on sunrise are the same tracks ???...so looking for blue beat from 1963 onwards now ?...such a great collection.

[Biggordy]

Prince Buster owns all his own stuff and his productions on other artists.  He only lets out a few tunes here and there, usually to the Japanese Rock A Shacka/Drum and Bass label.

 

He really needs to do a deal with a big label for a box set or a series of albums while he's still with us.

[Guest ENTHUCOL]

Received a reminedr that I've not logged in here for a while (Not that I haven't been dipping in even so, just not logging ion a nd posting) so to keep the moderators/operators of this board happy, here I am and while here thought I would add ny two penneth to this thread.....

 

To pick up on the Blue Beat reissues element of the thread, the reason the 60/61/62 relleases have been folluy comp'd was that under UK public domain regulations change form 75 years to 50 they fell out of copyright as far as Royalty payments for 'Mechanicals' (As opposed to songwriter roaylaties) were concerned as so copuld be freely re-isued without lecensing/payment. However, when the change was made the McCartney's, Cliff Richard's etc campaigned hard gainst the change and so the change was reversed for any recording after 31st December 1962 so its is highly unlikely their will be continuation of the series for 63/4/5/6/7 as the licensing would be too expensive/complex.

 

As far as Rocksteady is concerned (The style of Jamaican music that posted the Ska era and predated the first style that was known as Reggae (or indeed Reggay in some cases) from it inception in 1968) was still being recorded into 1968 (There is a tendabcy these days to tag some slower tempo early 70s recodings as Rocksteady, but they don't fit the bill in the true sense of the genre). However, it was certainly over by 1969 and so much so that some producers (Notably Bunny Lee) were overdubbing late rocksteady rhythms to make them sound more 'Reggae'. A good example of this is Delroy Wilson's late rocksteady classic 'This Old Heart Of Mine' (A cover of the Isley's Motown classic) which has recently surfaced on a blank laneld Jamiacn pre-release with overdubs clearly intended to reggaefy the Rocksteady recording originally issued on Jamaican 'WIRL' and UK 'Island'. Interestingly the stamper was a UK manufactured one which indicated that the 'Reggae' version was originally intended to be issued as the B-side of Pama 'Camel' CA15.

 

 

...and finally to clarify what started this thread, it is a late 1990s/early 2000s issue of an overdubbed version of the origial Bunny Lee produced recrding by Pay Kelly, there were a number of titles overdubbed and issued on that label design around the same time including sides by Delroy Wilson, Dennis Brown, Max Romeo and Tommy McCook

[Chris L]

I would suggest because the club was a "mod" place not a Jamaican club/blues/shabeen where, as you say,

new releases would have been the order of the day.

 

We used to a Jamaican/Caribbean run nighter called "The Alphabet Club", I think it was in Wardour street, the most terrifying place I ever went to.

They played new releases constantly  almost to the point of honour. Learnt how to do the "Rub" there 

[Chris L]

https://www.facebook.com/kellyplatinummusic

[Missgoldie]

this is a good refernce to use for pressings

https://www.reggaefever.ch/rkr/

[Pete S]

this is a good refernce to use for pressings

https://www.reggaefever.ch/rkr/

 

It's the best - but you have to pay for it

[Missgoldie]

It's the best - but you have to pay for it

It's worth the money just to avoid those Studio One late 70's pressings with the awful Rhodes over dubbed on tracks.

[Rudzy]

My All-Time favourite REGGAE recording...EVER

[Andrea Ko]

Sorry if I'm a bit out of place... I'm not a big fan of reggae, ska or rocksteady but I really like Jackie Mittoo and all his first tunes on studio one...  maybe it's for the way he plays his organ,,, I couldn't find nothing similar so far... how would you label the stuff he plays? rocksteady?

[TOAD]

Jackie's early studio one records are ska