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The Bootleg "everybody" Sells As An Original


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Posted

You

 

Neil, it's crap. That's why nobody plays it.  :lol:

 

Phil, I would pay half a million quid for a copy.... NOW, THIS MINUTE.... has to be a demo though! :thumbsup:

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Anything that guy from Vegas puts out!

Printing the two colour blank Capitol labels would be absolutely the easiest part of the enterprise. I'm not doubting that there were probably such blanks laying unused in the Capitol Hollywood

Moses Smith- Girl Across The Street was distributed by Jamie/ Guyden and sold in Philadelphia by Universal on North Broad Street. Global Records US warehouse was on the same street and the owner, Ed B

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Kitch rarely DJ's, Andy D does have it now i come to think but rarely do you hear it other than Butch'

it's a top notch tune so maybe better it doesn't get too overplayed

Mick H now and again

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Posted

Spades

 

Mick H now and again

 

Ted, bet you can't remember last time Mick played it, anyway, he may have got shut of it

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Posted

You

 

 

Phil, I would pay half a million quid for a copy.... NOW, THIS MINUTE.... has to be a demo though! :thumbsup:

 

Have you had a taste bypass mate?  :lol:

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It has to be epitome of sound, the only difference between orig and boot is orig has three embossed numbers UNDER label and boot don't. Everything else is bang down to matrix

Dazz

 

I thought all the cream and red labels were originals and the green labels were the boots?

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Spades

 

 

Ted, bet you can't remember last time Mick played it, anyway, he may have got shut of it

life line within the last 12 months

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It has to be epitome of sound, the only difference between orig and boot is orig has three embossed numbers UNDER label and boot don't. Everything else is bang down to matrix

Dazz

 

I thought all the cream and red labels were originals and the green labels were the boots?

 

The Cream red is indeed original, and has never been booted in this colour variation.

 

The 70's white demo boot does get listed as original consistently, and people buy them consistently, even though they stand out a mile.  Here's the latest example priced at £145 ...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/you-dont-love-me-where-were-you-the-epitome-of-sound-on-sandbag-/221412061009

 

However to say they are identical apart from the mastering and the numbers under the label, is a bit much to say the least. There are multiple threads about this record with images etc, to enable anyone to identify orig or boot from any given image, or 50 yards across the room, they are SO different.

 

Cheers

Mick

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It has to be epitome of sound, the only difference between orig and boot is orig has three embossed numbers UNDER label and boot don't. Everything else is bang down to matrix

Dazz

 

There's no boot of the Epitome Of Sound on Sandbag issue.  If the braille numbers aren't there, they just aren't there.

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How about "Landslide" on Chess import.  Looks absolutely identical and is always sold as an original.  

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There's no boot of the Epitome Of Sound on Sandbag issue.  If the braille numbers aren't there, they just aren't there.

Pete. I remember Steve Thomas saying to me years ago the only record he would have out of my collection was my Epitome of Sound, Sandbag issue. It had no Braille numbers under the label. Steve

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Posted (edited)

Your wrong, I know who booted them in the early 90s specifically to deceive but had no Brail.

Go figure

Dazz

 

Have figured, you're completely wrong.  Where are they?  Where's all the suckers who've been taken in by them?  Am I one?

Edited by Pete S
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Just not gonna bother to try to explain Pete coz whatever I say I will be wrong and you will be right coz that's the way it always is with you mate.

And why can you never ever reply without coming across in a brash manner.

All the best

Have a wonderful day!!!

Dazz

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Guest turntableterra
Posted

what about the duck....................................the one I had looked like it had been booted over a field

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Just not gonna bother to try to explain Pete coz whatever I say I will be wrong and you will be right coz that's the way it always is with you mate.

And why can you never ever reply without coming across in a brash manner.

All the best

Have a wonderful day!!!

Dazz

 

Was responding to your needless 'go figure' comment.

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people often get caught with George Blackwell and re`s of  johnny sayles, the mickey lee lane is another. these should be plastered all over the place to stop it

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Your wrong, I know who booted them in the early 90s specifically to deceive but had no Brail.

Go figure

Dazz

Dazz. If you know who booted them please tell. So people can be aware of this. I always thought mine was  real. And obviously so did Steve Thomas who knows a lot more than I do. Steve

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Funny how stuff just comes into your head that you thought you had forgotten years ago.

 

I just remembered about talking to a once well-know record dealer, many years ago now - pre-internet days, and the days of those lovely paper lists  :)

 

We were talking about originals and bootlegs and I was (incorrectly by the way) questioning the authenticity of a record I had received. I thought it was a bootleg based on a write up in one of the top soul fanzines at the time. Anyway, I now know the record was a real one.

 

So this dealer said to me "There's only one bootleg I sell as an original - and I'm not going to tell you what it is because everyone sells it as an original"  :excl:

 

Anyway, this guy is no longer in the business of selling records and is not on the scene - so I see no point in naming them.

 

I just wondered if anyone knew what the said record might have been please - the bootleg everyone sells as an original - not the one I sent back :lol:

 

I never worked it out. Might be a fun thread guessing though huh!?  :yes:

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

 

This sounds to me as though it's not necessarily a convincing counterfeit, but more a record that people in the main have come to assume is an original but isn't, I'm sure I read on here a few years back that we all thought we were in possession of an original Cashing in - Voices of East Harlem when in fact a lot of them aren't, (I could've dreamt that) that's not my guess, just a different take on the statement 'everyone sells it as an original' maybe not intentionally?

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I would go with Anderson Brothers, bought mine as original in 76 and still not sure if it is or not, so many conflicting posts, would love to see the definitive answer once and for all.

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I know I started the thread but just thought of one myself  :)

 

Leah Dawson on Magic City on a DEMO - that seems to confuse many people.

 

The white DJ bootlegs seem to be sold regularly as originals - and also sold regularly as bootlegs - but in my experience people don't also know there is an original white demo of this one.

 

I've just confused the hell out of myself with that post  :lol:

 

Off to bed ...

 

Cheers

 

Richard

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Posted (edited)

I know I started the thread but just thought of one myself  :)

 

Leah Dawson on Magic City on a DEMO - that seems to confuse many people.

 

The white DJ bootlegs seem to be sold regularly as originals - and also sold regularly as bootlegs - but in my experience people don't also know there is an original white demo of this one.

 

I've just confused the hell out of myself with that post  :lol:

 

Off to bed ...

 

Cheers

 

Richard

There used to be a little second hand shop in Grimsby (railway st. I think?) and in the main shop were Prams , coffe tables and bric a brac but in a little room at the back there were loads of US import 45's and a few albums.

All the 45's were unplayed and seem to think a lot had that import sticker on the cover.

There were multiple copies of Leah Dawson on Magic City W/Demos plus Jackie Lee - Oh my Darling issues and lots of Chess stuff , also Mad dog & the Pups on Magic City (Yellow & Black ??). Remember buying a couple of copies of Billy Harner - She's Almost You which came in a sort of crap picture cover with an iron on transfer in it .

 

Happy days eh?

 

Swifty :thumbsup:

Edited by SWIFTY
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No thats missing it's Nashville Matrix stamp

Still hard to spot though mate if you are just looking at the label

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how about sandra phillips world with without sunshine on broadway  I think thats difficult to spot.

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how about sandra phillips world with without sunshine on broadway  I think thats difficult to spot.

Buy the gold label. That's never been booted. Steve

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Posted (edited)

"Sexy Lady" by the Mylestones on Hawk Sound.  

 

There are two different originals and at least one bootleg.

 

The true rare original without reference to Kent and the Kent distributed originals used the exact same master plate.  Both have the same run in and runout grooves.

 

The bootleg that is often sold as original without reference to Kent, has different run in/out grooves.  Often sold as original because it's hard to tell the difference!

Edited by Guest
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Flirtations - Stronger than her love on Vinyl which looks exactly like the Styrene boot(plain white label with the 2 lines). I thought it was an original I bought at Wigan because it was vinyl & not styrene to get told no it was aboot!

 

What about that one on VIP Dalton Bros

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The record in question must be Lou Pride only 300 originals pressed and was booted the day after it went big ,wasn't it?.I have always believed and think it was very common including the dealers to think all copies are boots.   

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Joe Douglas - Crazy Things - Playhouse

 

 IMHO is hard as you have to stand on your head to work out the position of the runout stamps

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Flirtations - Stronger than her love on Vinyl which looks exactly like the Styrene boot(plain white label with the 2 lines). I thought it was an original I bought at Wigan because it was vinyl & not styrene to get told no it was aboot!

 

 

 

It's a 1970's Monarch delta number on the boot though.

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Flirtations - Stronger than her love on Vinyl which looks exactly like the Styrene boot(plain white label with the 2 lines). I thought it was an original I bought at Wigan because it was vinyl & not styrene to get told no it was aboot!

 

What about that one on VIP Dalton Bros

 

Never seen a boot on vinyl

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Interesting that all this boot talk has prompted John Manship to advertise his #5 Price Guide as the one to use to differentiate the boots. Methinks it's time for John to produce a thick volume of boot scans and distinguishing marks. Currently in the USA using a well thumbed #5 in preference to the heavier #6 without boot guide...

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It's a 1970's Monarch delta number on the boot though.

Wasnt on this one Chalky- we all know what the multicoloured original vinyl copies look like but this was just like the styrene boot but it was in vinyl with no delta mark just scratched in matrix- Cant remember who bought it off me but I got rid quick because everyone was saying it was a boot. Think I sold it for around £6 at the time and I paid about that for it.

Maybe the person who bought it off me circa 1978-79 might be on here or know the person who has it. Ive never seen another one since.

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Wasnt on this one Chalky- we all know what the multicoloured original vinyl copies look like but this was just like the styrene boot but it was in vinyl with no delta mark just scratched in matrix- Cant remember who bought it off me but I got rid quick because everyone was saying it was a boot. Think I sold it for around £6 at the time and I paid about that for it.

Maybe the person who bought it off me circa 1978-79 might be on here or know the person who has it. Ive never seen another one since.

 

Steve, the boot has got a delta number but it's been scratched out partially, I thought it hadn't got one but it has

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story go, saw this record on soul source 5-6 years ago. the seller is a well known dj and a collector, also a very nice chap. He was selling it at £45. Timothy Wilson-i must love you on sky disc, light blue one, that sounded nice price ill go for that, he got back to me, he said Billy its not an ovo, its a first issue, he said i pay £300/400 for it, not to sure if was 3 or 4 or in between, and then he sold it on to someone as it was an original which i believe he did, the chap got back to him and said i want my money back its not an ovo its a first issue so the seller said ill send the record back and ill give you the money back, when he got the record back, hang on mate this isnt the record i sent ya, little bit argument over the internet. i believe he sold him the original and sent back the first issue. That was in my box one day, and a dj and a collector had a look at it, he said thats a nice sort after record, never played it out, it looks original to me, if you play it you can tell after the first 20 seconds, so i did, yeah thats the ovo billy, he said the same quality was excellent, and the first issue is not so good, i take it hes right if so can you put me right, what a load of waffle, cheers Billy.      

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story go, saw this record on soul source 5-6 years ago. the seller is a well known dj and a collector, also a very nice chap. He was selling it at £45. Timothy Wilson-i must love you on sky disc, light blue one, that sounded nice price ill go for that, he got back to me, he said Billy its not an ovo, its a first issue, he said i pay £300/400 for it, not to sure if was 3 or 4 or in between, and then he sold it on to someone as it was an original which i believe he did, the chap got back to him and said i want my money back its not an ovo its a first issue so the seller said ill send the record back and ill give you the money back, when he got the record back, hang on mate this isnt the record i sent ya, little bit argument over the internet. i believe he sold him the original and sent back the first issue. That was in my box one day, and a dj and a collector had a look at it, he said thats a nice sort after record, never played it out, it looks original to me, if you play it you can tell after the first 20 seconds, so i did, yeah thats the ovo billy, he said the same quality was excellent, and the first issue is not so good, i take it hes right if so can you put me right, what a load of waffle, cheers Billy.      

 

Easy to tell BIlly.  Original is styrene.  Reissue is vinyl.  

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Easy to tell BIlly.  Original is styrene.  Reissue is vinyl.  

thanks for reply pete, its styrene, not vinyl,hope he not looking in ,45 pounds is a good buy,nice sound ,book price 3 4oo me think billy ps plenty of easter eggs next w end for the kids pete

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Steve, the boot has got a delta number but it's been scratched out partially, I thought it hadn't got one but it has

 

I guess you refer to the styrene bootleg? I can confirm there's a vinyl bootleg. Looks very convincing until you play it. You can hear it was dubbed off a scratchy record.

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The record in question must be Lou Pride only 300 originals pressed and was booted the day after it went big ,wasn't it?.I have always believed and think it was very common including the dealers to think all copies are boots.   

 

I'm Cumun Home? Original vinyl boots styrene and colours wrong.

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Posted

Always thought that the Moses Smith boot was a fable and they are all originals, anybody got any labels scans of both ? 

the moses smith labels look ptetty much the same......maybe a tad lighter...its the vinyl that gives it away

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I guess you refer to the styrene bootleg? I can confirm there's a vinyl bootleg. Looks very convincing until you play it. You can hear it was dubbed off a scratchy record.

 

I guessed there might be as it was one of the titles that were done on styrene after first appearing on vinyl (Salvadors, Anderson Bros, Mel Britt, George Blackwell, Dave Newman) but I've never seen or heard of one until you two have mentioned it and that's after 38 years since it was pressed.  Though they were done by the same person who did the styrene ones so not sure why it would be of poor sound quality.

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Jerry Cook exists on real Hollywood and Scranton pressings. Are some of the Scrantons boots? All of them? The real Scranton one has the 'triangle with IAM' stamp. The real Hollywood one has the daisy-wheel mark.

 

Looking at popsike I can see a couple of examples where a dodgy Jerry Cook has sold for more than it perhaps ought to, but similarly I can speculate that there might well be a couple of examples where the original has sold for peanuts and the respective buyers and sellers are going by the labels only.

 

The Jerry C & Alex P have almost no matrix markings and are of a very thick vinyl, there is a way to tell by the positioning of the text, I think I did something on SS a year or 2 back.

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