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Creations-Say Say Baby Info

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hi gang

 

I know that the creations track ' say say baby' is unissued,but has it ever shown up on a acetate? is it a jobete song?

 

also what cd is it on?

 

thanks

 

lee

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It is I think actually the Serenaders.  Unissued Jobete/Motown recording, Sidney Barnes, George Kerr, Timothy Wilson.

 

Robb K might know more as it turned up in the 80's, not sure if on the tapes from him that Rod got or via the acetates that went through JM. 

Edited by chalky

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Chalky is correct.  We originally taped it off an uncredited Jobete Music acetate with just the title.  I just used the name The Creations as a "filler" name.  When Rod S. copied my tapes, naturally he wrote down the "filler names" of my still-unknown artists/groups.  "Say, Say baby was sung by The Serenaders in late 1963, and is listed so on a CD. 

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Don't know about Rob, but Chris was involved. And yes, it's on the LP.

yes its chris Marriott,i have the lp,its from 1993,poor quality im afraid,some of the songs sound like they are from a cassette tape,but the effort is there,and the lp comes with an old school hand written tracklist ' triangle connoisseur sounds''the motown/hitsville masters vol1'...don't know if it reached a vol2?

 

but the creations/serenaders is the tune for me.

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I still like the LP. All but one tune (Eddie Hollad- Outside looking in) unreleased. Sound quality differs but most tracks play quite good. My favourite track is Angel Doll by the Temps.

 

 

 

PS: Never reached vol.2

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I still like the LP. All but one tune (Eddie Hollad- Outside looking in) unreleased. Sound quality differs but most tracks play quite good. My favourite track is Angel Doll by the Temps.

 

 

 

PS: Never reached vol.2

is the eddie Holland the only track that was issued onto a 45,or are some of the others turned up over the years on French eps...etc..

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The Lp was probably dubbed from cassette tape & 45.  Eddie Holland was the only released one and included as it was a biggie for Rob late 80's.

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The Lp was probably dubbed from cassette tape & 45.  Eddie Holland was the only released one and included as it was a biggie for Rob late 80's.

I suppose there were a few things that came out around that time....the worst one for me...and im guilty of buying it...was the frank Wilson instrumental...sounded like it was made on a casio keyboard...got it at keele in the early days...haha

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Say, Say Baby came out some years ago the Marginal (Belgian) CD: Detroit Rare Tracks Vol.3.  Bootleg label I think, quite widely distributed and copies sometimes come up on ebay etc. . 

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here's the library details from Don't Forget The Motor City....

 

Say, Say, Baby (Sidney Barnes-George Kerr-Timothy Wilson-Howard Curry) publ. Jobete

The Serenaders; recorded Hitsville, completed 16-Jun-63 ; produced by Raynoma Liles Gordy, Berry Gordy

[rel date unknown] [acetate]; 45 (M): [no catalogue number]

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Chalky is correct.  We originally taped it off an uncredited Jobete Music acetate with just the title.  I just used the name The Creations as a "filler" name.  When Rod S. copied my tapes, naturally he wrote down the "filler names" of my still-unknown artists/groups.  "Say, Say baby was sung by The Serenaders in late 1963, and is listed so on a CD. 

does a 7" acetate exist of the tune,or was it off a 10" with other bits on it?

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It was a normal 7" Jobete Music acetate with a "cream" (off-white) pasted on label, with the normal: "Jobete Music Co." typed in black ink, and the normal song title typed in red ink (just like the hundreds of other Jobete Music acetates from 1959-1970).  It had no artist name on it.  It was mere for additional proof of song publishing rights.  Now, we know it was sung by The Serenaders (members: Sidney Barnes-George Kerr-Timothy Wilson-Howard Curry), and recorded at Hitsville in June, 1963.

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hi gang I know that the creations track ' say say baby' is unissued,but has it ever shown up on a acetate? is it a jobete song? also what cd is it on? thanks 

lee

 

Wonder how many groups were called the Creations ?

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It was a normal 7" Jobete Music acetate with a "cream" (off-white) pasted on label, with the normal: "Jobete Music Co." typed in black ink, and the normal song title typed in red ink (just like the hundreds of other Jobete Music acetates from 1959-1970).  It had no artist name on it.  It was mere for additional proof of song publishing rights.  Now, we know it was sung by The Serenaders (members: Sidney Barnes-George Kerr-Timothy Wilson-Howard Curry), and recorded at Hitsville in June, 1963.

great info my friend...dare I ask where this acetate resides

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Wonder how many groups were called the Creations ?

We had a discussion on that on another thread.  Motown's Creations were supposedly a local Detroit group, who had a previous tie-in to their Motown producer. Andre Williams.  HE was originally from Chicago, and commuted back and forth between the two cities.  It has been stated by some sources that one of this Motown group's member was a cousin of his (partly corroborated by 2 Williams writer credits on their Melo-dy record release). 

 

Then, there was the Chicago group who had the 1962 release on Penny Records.  Several "sources" suggest that they had NO relation to the Motown group (but I think that they must have had, due to their existence at roughly the same time and the connection with Chicago's Andre Williams, and the Williams family involvement in the so-called "Detroit group". 

 

The "Creations" (who worked with Jo Armstead) on Globe were totally unrelated, as were the so-called "Creations" on Zodiac, who were really Bridges, Knight and Eaton.  Then, there were The Creations on Jamie, who were an East Coast group (Philadelphia? or NJ) who worked with Phil Spector in New York.  There was also an earlier Doo Wop group from New Jersey, and one from NewYork.  I believe there was also a late '50s West Coast group and an instrumental group or two, with that name.  Bob A knows a lot about this subject.

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great info my friend...dare I ask where this acetate resides

I have no idea.  A LOT of those acetates we found in The Vault later "disappeared" from Motown, and they popped up later in auctions on The Internet.  They must have been "lifted" from there by unscrupulous characters.  I heard some people say that they "rescued" them from being thrown away, and were told they could take them.  But, I don't believe that.  Many of them ended up in the UK.  I don't know about that one in particular.  It's sounds to me more like a Belgian tempo and beat than NS, but it's not really a "Beach" or Shag tempo.

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I have no idea.  A LO,T of those acetates we found in The Vault later "disappeared" from Motown, and they popped up later in auctions on The Internet.  They must have been "lifted" from there by unscrupulous characters.  I heard some people say that they "rescued" them from being thrown away, and were told they could take them.  But, I don't believe that.  Many of them ended up in the UK.  I don't know about that one in particular.  It's sounds to me more like a Belgian tempo and beat than NS, but it's not really a "Beach" or Shag tempo.

that's interesting info,about 10 years ago I ended up with a Patrice Holloway acetate called 'for the love of mike' and a Brenda Holloway acetate called 'lonely boy',i wonder if they came from the same source? the story was that they had been rescued from a junk skip? either way I wouldn't mind the serenders acetate,the tune just ticks all the boxes for me,just love the tempo,the vocal style,and the instrumentation!

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The large batch of acetates and studio demos that were pilfered out of Motown's offices were auctioned off around 1990, if I remember correctly.  With a few more batches during the early 1990s through about 1994, if memory serves.

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We had a discussion on that on another thread.  Motown's Creations were supposedly a local Detroit group, who had a previous tie-in to their Motown producer. Andre Williams.  HE was originally from Chicago, and commuted back and forth between the two cities.  It has been stated by some sources that one of this Motown group's member was a cousin of his (partly corroborated by 2 Williams writer credits on their Melo-dy record release). 

 

Then, there was the Chicago group who had the 1962 release on Penny Records.  Several "sources" suggest that they had NO relation to the Motown group (but I think that they must have had, due to their existence at roughly the same time and the connection with Chicago's Andre Williams, and the Williams family involvement in the so-called "Detroit group". 

 

The "Creations" (who worked with Jo Armstead) on Globe were totally unrelated, as were the so-called "Creations" on Zodiac, who were really Bridges, Knight and Eaton.  Then, there were The Creations on Jamie, who were an East Coast group (Philadelphia? or NJ) who worked with Phil Spector in New York.  There was also an earlier Doo Wop group from New Jersey, and one from NewYork.  I believe there was also a late '50s West Coast group and an instrumental group or two, with that name.  Bob A knows a lot about this subject.

 

The Spellbinders started off as the Creators !! They even cut a record.

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Looking at the tape listings, the acetate for Say Say Baby came over in the batch of 60 odd acetates that were sold 89ish.

Edited by chalky

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Looking at the tape listings, the acetate for Say Say Baby came over in the batch of 60 odd acetates that were sold 89ish.

Exactly!  That jibes with my memory of them being auctioned off roughly, about 1990.

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