Paypal And Family And Friends

[Paul McKay]

I've been selling a few bits recently and in general have asked buyers for payment by Paypal as a Gift or bank transfer. Anybody else received this email recently:

 

"We recently changed our pricing so that all PayPal customers can receive money from friends and family for free. PayPal merchants receiving money as payment for a purchase continue to incur fees.
 
We’re not sure if you are aware of this, but we noticed that some of your customers are sending you personal payments for purchases. Unfortunately, this violates our rules, and we need your help correcting this. Please don’t ask or allow your customers to use personal payments to pay for their purchases.
 
If we continue to see such activity we may have to disable your ability to receive personal payments, and then you will be required to pay fees for all money received through PayPal.
 
You can find more information about payment types and fees in our User Agreement by clicking 'Legal Agreements' at the bottom of any PayPal page.
 
 
 
Sincerely,
Megan
PayPal Account Review Department"

[Denbo]

I'm guessing you've had quite a few recently Paul? I'm also guessing that's why you've attracted their attention. Even you can't have that many family and friends all wanting to send you money all of a sudden, except perhaps around your birthday. You need to spread your sales out more so as not to attract their attention again. Having said that, they'll have their beady eyes on you know.

[Larsc]

As a buyer I'd prefer not to use the gift option. Buyer pays fees anyway so the difference is only that the buyer protection is not valid. Nice for the seller though.

 

I think there will be more of these e-mails coming to sellers. Too many sales transactions are being passed off as gifts.

[Ted Massey]

why not just ask them to add 4% simples

[Paul McKay]

I intend to Ted.lars if people have funds it doesn't cost to send as gift, does it?

[Kevinkent]

Why not adjust your starting prices, your buy now prices, and your expectations, accordingly. Even simpler.

 

 - Kev

[Steve G]

I intend to Ted.lars if people have funds it doesn't cost to send as gift, does it?

 

Yes if you use a credit card. I refuse to give those slugs anything to do with my account or "funds"….I am on a mission not to give corporates access to my info more than I absolutely have to. So I use a CC and get stuffed with the PP fees for sellers that insist on F&F. 

[NEV]

On the subject of gift payments ( family & friends) v fees.. Apart from the obvious being you lose any protection if it doesn't turn up, here is another bad side of the gift option.

I recently won a auction item from a private list and used the paypal app on my phone to make the payment.

Because it is a email address for payment, I couldn't copy and paste as the phone kept opening up email option when I tried to copy, so I did it from memory.

Buyer never received funds, so I checked the details and found out I missed a digit off.. Doh!

Went to cancel and no option?

Phoned paypal and they said, because it's a gift payment they are powerless to reverse it!

They sent the recipient a message with a bluff warning about action being taken, but more or less said I'm up the creek without a barrel if he doesn't refund me.

Guess what... I never got a refund of $78

So folks... Be sure you type in properly when sending payments as gift!

[Mellorful]

In the past there has been serious abuse of the paypal system for payment to friends; once the seller receives the money there is no come back for the buyer. So if the seller doesn't send the item or item is not as described the buyer is in a hole with no means of recovering the money.

I know this abuse has previously occurred on record sales site and the buyer was several hundred pounds out of pocket and a con artist several hundreds of pounds richer.

That's why I won't send payment as a friend and would rather stump up an extra few % on the item and have security of knowing a seller can't screw me over.

Buyer beware

[Orotava]

Am I right in thinking there`s a fee for using your credit card to pay on both `Friends` & `Paying for goods` ??

[Soulboyrecords]

I think it's a scam email. I don't think any email from PayPal would ask you to 'click on the legal agreements link'?

[boff]

I only use paypal as friends and family from whom I've bought off in the past otherwise it's a cheque or paypal with protection .....

[Steve G]

Yeah time to abandon this gifts & friends nonsense unless it's a good mate....no buyer protection whatsoever, just so the seller doesn't have to stump up fees....tell you what if it is that important stick your prices up 4% 

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

As a buyer, I'd just prefer the 4% to be included in the original selling price.

[Cunnie]

Noticed that someone on facebook is selling tickets for an upcoming event & wants paying by this method. Fine if it takes place but what if it gets cancelled?

[Guest turntableterra]

I reckon sellers should offer free postage if they want us to pay that way, share the cost particularly on high value items

Edited September 4, 2014 by turntableterra

[Guest Andy Kempster]

On the subject of gift payments ( family & friends) v fees.. Apart from the obvious being you lose any protection if it doesn't turn up, here is another bad side of the gift option.

I recently won a auction item from a private list and used the paypal app on my phone to make the payment.

Because it is a email address for payment, I couldn't copy and paste as the phone kept opening up email option when I tried to copy, so I did it from memory.

Buyer never received funds, so I checked the details and found out I missed a digit off.. Doh!

Went to cancel and no option?

Phoned paypal and they said, because it's a gift payment they are powerless to reverse it!

They sent the recipient a message with a bluff warning about action being taken, but more or less said I'm up the creek without a barrel if he doesn't refund me.

Guess what... I never got a refund of $78

So folks... Be sure you type in properly when sending payments as gift!

 

 

I did precisely that a couple of weeks ago Nev, fortunately for me it was only for £7.50 but it will definitely make me more aware in the future

[Pete S]

On the subject of gift payments ( family & friends) v fees.. Apart from the obvious being you lose any protection if it doesn't turn up, here is another bad side of the gift option.

I recently won a auction item from a private list and used the paypal app on my phone to make the payment.

Because it is a email address for payment, I couldn't copy and paste as the phone kept opening up email option when I tried to copy, so I did it from memory.

Buyer never received funds, so I checked the details and found out I missed a digit off.. Doh!

Went to cancel and no option?

Phoned paypal and they said, because it's a gift payment they are powerless to reverse it!

They sent the recipient a message with a bluff warning about action being taken, but more or less said I'm up the creek without a barrel if he doesn't refund me.

Guess what... I never got a refund of $78

So folks... Be sure you type in properly when sending payments as gift!

 

So you sent it to a wrong address?  How is that the sellers fault?  He wouldn't have received the payment if it wasn't sent to his exact address.  It's just vanished into space..

[Pete S]

I'd like to hear from any of the thousands of people who've sent money to me via family and friends who have had a single problem...

[Kjw]

I think it's a scam email. I don't think any email from PayPal would ask you to 'click on the legal agreements link'?

 

I would say it was genuine - they're not guiding you to a specific link within the e-mail message but to their 'User Agreements / Legal Agreements' on an actual Paypal page within the Paypal website

[Kjw]

I reckon sellers should offer free postage if they want us to pay that way, share the cost particularly on high value items

 

Why?

 

When I put a list up on here I set the prices at the minimum I want for them based on what the general value is and what I paid for them - postage costs money - if you don't believe me go to the Post Office and ask them

 

I offer 4 options for payment - cheque, cash, standard paypal + fees or paypal gift. Sometimes, if the seller is in a country that doesn't offer the gift option, and I've dealt with them before, I split the fees.

 

This is what I do for a living so unlike a lot of casual sellers I also pay tax on my profits - I don't know what you do for a living but I'm guessing if your boss came up to you and asked you to take a bit less salary this month you wouldn't be too impressed.

Edited September 4, 2014 by kjw

[Dave Pinch]

You pays your money and makes your choices at the end of the day... If guys have a problem with fees/ friends options it's the buyer who stands the 4% or any hidden fees or extras imo

Edited September 4, 2014 by dave pinch

[Mick Holdsworth]

As a seller I don't ask for payment through F & F (I'm sometimes offered it, which I obviously accept, but only if it's offered)

 

I use Friends and Family to pay / lend to friends, or family.

 

Cheers

Ron Seal

[John Reed]

With financial regulators clamping down more and more on the back of money laundering concerns, financial institutions are performing a significant amount of data mining on their accounts.  The highlighting of large volumes of F/F payments on paypal accounts is probably a by-product of that process, so I wouldn’t be surprised if more people get a mail.

Edited September 4, 2014 by John Reed

[Larsc]

I would say it was genuine - they're not guiding you to a specific link within the e-mail message but to their 'User Agreements / Legal Agreements' on an actual Paypal page within the Paypal website

 

Scam e-mails also use actual paypal links.

The only way to tell if the message is real is if they use your name exactly as you entered it on their site when registering.

[Supercorsa]

I have sent payment via friends and family to sellers (Pete S being just one) on here in the past. However I only do this if I have had previous dealings. On those occasions where sellers request family payment, I just add on 4% to cover their fees and protect myself if it's the first time I have dealt with them. Usually a short message explaining the reason behind it suffices.

As someone else has stated about the message being a scam, doesn't a copy of the email appear on paypal when you log in?

[Larsc]

I'd like to hear from any of the thousands of people who've sent money to me via family and friends who have had a single problem...

 

You're a reputable seller with a high profile within the online soul community. Most sellers are not in your position.

 

 

As a buyer, I'd just prefer the 4% to be included in the original selling price.

 

 

 

Because adding it on top is annoying. If a seller needs to compensate for the 4% it should be included in the selling price.

[Kjw]

Scam e-mails also use actual paypal links.

The only way to tell if the message is real is if they use your name exactly as you entered it on their site when registering.

 

I'm aware of that but in this instance the e-mail was telling him to click on the agreements on any Paypal page which makes me think it is genuine

 

If it was a scam surely they would have posted a link within the e-mail

[Steve G]

 

 

Because adding it on top is annoying. If a seller needs to compensate for the 4% it should be included in the selling price.

 

Get in! (football expression) 100% agree.

[Quinvy]

I had a similar email when I was selling up. When you are putting thousands of pounds through paypal they must get flagged up to warn them of possible money laundering or large businesses trying to avoid tax.

 

Normal amounts of money don't flag up these warnings. They will probably ask you to register as a business next, they did with me.

 

Try using direct bank transfers instead. Both parties need to have internet banking, but it's instant and free. BACS, it's the future. 

[Mellorful]

Paypal are duty bound to meet their obligations under the Money Laundering Regulations 2007; the processes includes monitoring accounts and identifying irregularities.

Paul you got off very lightly with the warning and retaining your account, I recommend you count your blessings and add the administrative fee to your future sales.  

[Larsc]

Try using direct bank transfers instead. Both parties need to have internet banking, but it's instant and free. BACS, it's the future. 

 

You'd still need paypal for international sales.

[NEV]

I'd like to hear from any of the thousands of people who've sent money to me via family and friends who have had a single problem...

Hope the inland revenue aren't monitoring you and reading this Pete lol

P.s, I didn't say that it was sellers fault that I missed a digit, but it's easy done and the point is, if you send it with a tiny mistake like I did, the payment goes astray and in my case, to a fella in USA who obviously had that paypal address registered with paypal, but legally they cannot forcibly get me my funds back.

PayPal sent him email to say if he didn't refund,they would file a dispute, but told me. It was a bluff and if he don't refund me, I'm basically out on a limb, because I sent as a gift

Morally wrong, because they know who he is and that it's not his money, so why are they powerless?

Oh and I have had a few people lately send me money that has not arrived... One missed the digit 1 off my address and another put,.com twice, so it's easily done, especially using mobile touch type devices!

[Ged Parker]

If you buy other things internationally some for a (Chrono24 / WUS etc) have it in their sales rules not to use 'gift' payments on paypal.  And if you do the moderators won't get involved in any sales disputes.

I use it for record payments to people I know or on low value items only.

[Pete S]

Hope the inland revenue aren't monitoring you and reading this Pete lol

P.s, I didn't say that it was sellers fault that I missed a digit, but it's easy done and the point is, if you send it with a tiny mistake like I did, the payment goes astray and in my case, to a fella in USA who obviously had that paypal address registered with paypal, but legally they cannot forcibly get me my funds back.

PayPal sent him email to say if he didn't refund,they would file a dispute, but told me. It was a bluff and if he don't refund me, I'm basically out on a limb, because I sent as a gift

Morally wrong, because they know who he is and that it's not his money, so why are they powerless?

Oh and I have had a few people lately send me money that has not arrived... One missed the digit 1 off my address and another put,.com twice, so it's easily done, especially using mobile touch type devices!

 

Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you meant the seller had your money, but you mean some random guy with the same email minus one digit has it?  I get you now.

[Quinvy]

You'd still need paypal for international sales.

 

I didn't think you could used family and friends for overseas transactions?

[NEV]

I didn't think you could used family and friends for overseas transactions?

Certain countries don't allow the friends and family option ,but a lot do Phil .