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Collecting Tamla Motown Demos


Pete S
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This must be the easiest thing to collect, there's so many red and white and green and white demos on Ebay every single day that if you had the money you could probably get all the 500's within say 2 months. Makes you wonder why these are considered rare really.

So if someone wants to lend me the money I'll collect them for you smile.gif

Edited by Pete-S
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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Pete's not the only one to have noticed this. It backs up a belief I've always held, which is that the only really rare TM R&W/G&W's are those that are of the biggest hits. Issues of things like the Spinners' "Sweet Thing" are virtually non-existent by comparison with the demo. Try, by contrast, to find an EX++ to mint demo of "Jimmy Mack", "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" or "Reach Out, I'll Be There"...

TONE smile.gif

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

I'm looking for beauty's only skin deep. anybody got one to sell por favor? :lol:

One of THE hardest R & W's to find, as I'm sure you'll have realised. Apart from TMG 525, which doesn't exist other than in the issue format...

TONE :)

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Guest recordman

R&W's G&W's they are all reissues of the original demo The White American Copy which is THE original demo

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R&W's G&W's they are all reissues of the original demo The White American Copy which is THE original demo

So what about No One Can Love You More then?

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Guest recordman

So what about No One Can Love You More then?

OK so what about Do I Love You dont recall a R&W or G&W

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OK so what about Do I Love You dont recall a R&W or G&W

US Motown issued 100 times more than UK Motown so you can say the same thing about hundreds of records. Don't see what your point is.

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Guest recordman

US Motown issued 100 times more than UK Motown so you can say the same thing about hundreds of records. Don't see what your point is.

My Original Point Was All White Motown Demos Issued In The US Are The First Issue Of The Motown Company's Output

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My Original Point Was All White Motown Demos Issued In The US Are The First Issue Of The Motown Company's Output

Yeah, except for the ones that were issued in the UK but not the USA, so it's just going to go round in circles all night

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This must be the easiest thing to collect, there's so many red and white and green and white demos on Ebay every single day that if you had the money you could probably get all the 500's within say 2 months. Makes you wonder why these are considered rare really.

So if someone wants to lend me the money I'll collect them for you :thumbsup:

well if you see a R/W demo of "I'm still loving you"

let me know

as only ever seen two ever

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My Original Point Was All White Motown Demos Issued In The US Are The First Issue Of The Motown Company's Output

Err, not strictly true. Check out M-1011 or a number of others that weren't white (not the all of them anyway). Pedantic - Yep, I suppose so but it's all good fun innit? :thumbsup:

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

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This must be the easiest thing to collect, there's so many red and white and green and white demos on Ebay every single day that if you had the money you could probably get all the 500's within say 2 months. Makes you wonder why these are considered rare really.

So if someone wants to lend me the money I'll collect them for you :P

Anyone on here know how many they actually pressed up?

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Err, not strictly true. Check out M-1011 or a number of others that weren't white (not the all of them anyway). Pedantic - Yep, I suppose so but it's all good fun innit? :P

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

pedantic no, just committed old chap. "don't turn away" beat ballad (hate that term) is the dog's gonads. where art thou?

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Not sure we're on the same sheet of music here, it was me being pedantic I was refering to. :P

But here's a toughie on US Demo, especially in MINT. Also came out as a White Demo, a Pink issue and a Blue stocker! M-1011

Mary_Wells___ImSo_Sorry_72dpi.jpg(post-1:

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Here's another "non-white" demo that's quite hard. (Damn those pluggers and their damned xol's....Damn their eyes!!) Gordy 7020

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

Gordy_7020___Temptations___Farewell_My_L

Hi Dave

Gordy_G-7047_DJ.jpgGordy_G-7054_DJ.jpgGordy_G-7028_DJ.jpg

Definitely hard to find, the coloured DEMO's - I've only got 2 which I've scanned.

The first Gordy 7047 was a suprise when I opened the mailer, as I bought it as a DEMO but had no pic on listing.

The usual White DEMO as centre pic Gordy 7054 was the Type of DEMO I expected to see.

The second coloured demo Gordy 7028 was listed with a Pic, but as an issue and I won with my bid, couldn't believe it.

Worth a second glance with some of the issues for this reason.

I have seen a couple of Coloured V.I.P. DEMO's, but you can't win them all.

Looking forward to the new magazine - www.theresthatbeat.com - Subsribed today - Can't wait.

Edited by 45cellar
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Anyone on here know how many they actually pressed up?

Did read somewhere - can't think where though - that the number was not massive, and the rule of thumb was round about 100-150. :P

But hey I'm no expert on this, I've never been a big 'label' collector - I've never been able to get my head around buying records I don't like just to fill hole's in (although I'd hazard a guess that there's not many kippers in the TMG5** series).

Edited by Rich
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Guest WPaulVanDyk

sorry if i go off topic here but would there have been any demo/promo copies of motown singles that didn't get a commercial release say like a Temptations single as there could be good ways of getting Northern soul singles played instead of your usual single tracks played

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Did read somewhere - can't think where though - that the number was not massive, and the rule of thumb was round about 100-150. :D

But hey I'm no expert on this, I've never been a big 'label' collector - I've never been able to get my head around buying records I don't like just to fill hole's in (although I'd hazard a guess that there's not many kippers in the TMG5** series).

I agree and say that as a label collector I just couldn't bring myself to buy the kippers - there are quite a few in the 500 series. :D

I agree and say that as a label collector I just couldn't bring myself to buy the kippers - there are quite a few in the 500 series. :D

While we're on the subject vaguely does anyone know what the stamped on numbers are for on London demos. I used to think it was some sort of cataloging system for where the demos went, but have recently noticed that A and B side numbers are different. Most of mine are two hundred and something e.g. 235?

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I agree and say that as a label collector I just couldn't bring myself to buy the kippers - there are quite a few in the 500 series. :D

While we're on the subject vaguely does anyone know what the stamped on numbers are for on London demos. I used to think it was some sort of cataloging system for where the demos went, but have recently noticed that A and B side numbers are different. Most of mine are two hundred and something e.g. 235?

Oh Steve, you're going to kick yourself now, those numbers (235) etc, are the running time of the track!

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Oh Steve, you're going to kick yourself now, those numbers (235) etc, are the running time of the track!

Priceless - well another mystery solved. You know I never figured that out in all those years :D

well blow me down

the kim weston and the edwin 45's are on ebay now

The Kim Weston looks pretty knack'd though

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slightly off the brit motown topic , i always thought the multi coloured us promo,s were mainly west coast presses.

best, bri.

Hi bri,

What makes you suspect that?

Have to say the color on the Gordy coloured label is always a little deeper. brighter so it looks like they may well have all come from the same place? You may well be right, I just wondered if you had any terms of reference.

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

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Guest mickmac

So how rare would a Dalton boys coloured VIP "demo" be then? Anyone any idea please?

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Hi bri,

What makes you suspect that?

Have to say the color on the Gordy coloured label is always a little deeper. brighter so it looks like they may well have all come from the same place? You may well be right, I just wondered if you had any terms of reference.

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

I've never owned one of these coloured-label demos, Dave, but would I be right in thinking that all the ones you've seen/owened are styrene rather than vinyl pressings? If is, that almost certainly marks them down as West Coast and pressed by Monarch. I believe that all of the other pressing plants that Motown used across the USA in the 60s pressed vinyl.

TONE :lol:

Edited by TONY ROUNCE
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So how rare would a Dalton boys coloured VIP "demo" be then? Anyone any idea please?

I have the Daltom Boys on a White DEMO, the only ones I've ever seen are White.

I would suspect that It's Extremely Rare - What is on the B' Side?

I have seen R Dean Taylor - Ghost In My House - On a Coloured V.I.P. DEMO on ebay, can't remember what It went for.

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Hi bri,

What makes you suspect that?

Have to say the color on the Gordy coloured label is always a little deeper. brighter so it looks like they may well have all come from the same place? You may well be right, I just wondered if you had any terms of reference.

Regards,

Dave

www.theresthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

I've never owned one of these coloured-label demos, Dave, but would I be right in thinking that all the ones you've seen/owened are styrene rather than vinyl pressings? If is, that almost certainly marks them down as West Coast and pressed by Monarch. I believe that all of the other pressing plants that Motown used across the USA in the 60s pressed vinyl.

TONE :lol:

Hi Dave, Hi TONE

There is a Mixture of Matrix Marks on the 2 Coloured DEMO's I've got, both are Styrene, notice RCA STAMPED Matrix as well as Monarch?

The only other Styrene Motown I'm aware of are ZTSC Matrix

Gordy_G-7047_DJ.jpg

THE TEMPTATIONS - Don't Look Back -

Scratched"Delta 58867" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "W-LI-V-140314" Stamped "S K 4 M -2648-1-D"

THE TEMPTATIONS - My Baby -

Scratched "Delta 58868" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "WIV-153308" Stamped "S K 4 M -2647-1-D"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gordy_G-7028_DJ.jpg

THE TEMPTATIONS - The Way You Do The Things You Do -

Scratched "DM-W-067219" Monarch Matrix "Delta 51064"

THE TEMPTATIONS - Just Let Me Know -

Stamped P K 4 M - - 8018 - 8 - 1 Monarch Matrix Scratched "DMB-064226" "Delta 51063"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Out of Interest, by chance I've just pulled a White DEMO "Delta 71382" Styrene

with a Similar Stamped RCA /Monarch Mixed Matrix out of it's Sleeve.

Tamla_T-54166_DJ-2.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would I be right to assume West Coast DEMO

It certainly makes things a little clearer if the Monarchs are the West Coast.

As a few Stock copies in my collection are Styrene Monarch

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by 45cellar
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I have the Daltom Boys on a White DEMO, the only ones I've ever seen are White.

I would suspect that It's Extremely Rare - What is on the B' Side?

I have seen R Dean Taylor - Ghost In My House - On a Coloured V.I.P. DEMO on ebay, can't remember what It went for.

I had a coloured label Dalton Boys demo once, I didn't know it was any rarer than the (stamped) white one, so I sold it for 60 quid..

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Guest TONY ROUNCE

Hi Dave, Hi TONE

There is a Mixture of Matrix Marks on the 2 Coloured DEMO's I've got, both are Styrene, notice RCA STAMPED Matrix as well as Monarch?

The only other Styrene Motown I'm aware of are ZTSC Matrix

Gordy_G-7047_DJ.jpg

THE TEMPTATIONS - Don't Look Back -

Scratched"Delta 58867" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "W-LI-V-140314" Stamped "S K 4 M -2648-1-D"

THE TEMPTATIONS - My Baby -

Scratched "Delta 58868" Stamped Monarch Matrix Scratched "WIV-153308" Stamped "S K 4 M -2647-1-D"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gordy_G-7028_DJ.jpg

THE TEMPTATIONS - The Way You Do The Things You Do -

Scratched "DM-W-067219" Monarch Matrix "Delta 51064"

THE TEMPTATIONS - Just Let Me Know -

Stamped P K 4 M - - 8018 - 8 - 1 Monarch Matrix Scratched "DMB-064226" "Delta 51063"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Out of Interest, by chance I've just pulled a White DEMO "Delta 71382" Styrene

with a Similar Stamped RCA /Monarch Mixed Matrix out of it's Sleeve.

Tamla_T-54166_DJ-2.jpg

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would I be right to assume West Coast DEMO

It certainly makes things a little clearer if the Monarchs are the West Coast.

As a few Stock copies in my collection are Styrene Monarch

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Rog' ('n' Dave)

Yes, this "Here I Am Baby" is definitely Monarch.

You can always pick out Atlantic West Coast (i.e. Monarch) very easily, too - apart from the fact that they're styrene, they always have the matrix number shown on the labels as - for example - "A-12345-MO".

TONE :lol:

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Hi Rog' ('n' Dave)

Yes, this "Here I Am Baby" is definitely Monarch.

You can always pick out Atlantic West Coast (i.e. Monarch) very easily, too - apart from the fact that they're styrene, they always have the matrix number shown on the labels as - for example - "A-12345-MO".

TONE :lol:

Hi Tone

Thanks for that, It's shed a new light on the collection - Checking through as we speak.

It must have been a Logistical Nightmare for record companies at the time, all requiring time at the the various pressing plants.

Strangly I notice Motown didn't use ZTSC much, apart from some of the Earlier releases

Ric-Tic, Golden World etc appear to have had first call.

Edited by 45cellar
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Hi Guys,

I'm a bit rushed here a the moment but I'll dig a few bits out later and try to contribute more.

The Dalton Boys on VIP colored Demo is not particularly hard. The VIP colored Demos seem to be easier to come accross than the Gordy ones for some inexplicable reason. I just sold a Lollipops Double sided colored Demo to Mike Wilks. That is the hardest one in my experience. (Out of the ones I know of at least).

Tone

I never realised the West Coast copies had the Matrix #s on the labels before!! Doh! Thanks for the tip.

Regards,

Dave

www.theesthatbeat.com

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

www.soulclub.org

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uesd to have a v.i.p multi coloured demo of the lollipops, cheating is telling on you, same song both sides. twas styrene wi MR stamp and delta #. only sold it cos i got t,issue wi need your love.

best bri.

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