Ceejay Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Looks like the worlds no.1 allnighter at the kings hall to me Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Billywhizz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 hang on i go there, billy Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Ceejay Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 hang on i go there, billy So what............I found the comment funny!!!! 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Russell H Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Russel feel free to do what you feel is right for you - but i feel you are wrong to criticise the people on here who are commenting about this thread! What you must remember and take on board is that the full point of peoples critisism here is that the "proper northern / rare soul scene" WAS AND STILL IS incredibly close to a lot of peoples hearts - people have spent many hours, weeks and years caring for and keeping alive a scene that was once raw, underground, undiluted (especially in the early days), special, exclusive etc. etc. Collectors have dedicated their lives in searching for rare and exclusive records in an attempt to keep the scene moving forward (which after 40 years is very diffficult) What we are witnessing is the (albeit small) commercialisation of this RAW, UNDERGROUND scene, into a "new scene" that WE simply cannot relate to - the nostalgia, people dressing in clothes from the 70's, dancing (poorly!) to overplayed records, paying too much for overplayed and non-rare records, attending venues where the promotors are only in it for the money and their own ego etc. etc. This is why we are critical about the crap like this thread - there is no RAWNESS in this "new scene", nobody pushing any boundaries etc. etc. I suggest you read Elaine Constantines book about Northern - that may give you an idea of what i am trying to say - it gets the point across about how RAW and "rough n ready" the scene once was - OK i am aware that things move forward but to move forward into the shit that we are witnessing at present - well, it just doesn't sit right with me and a lot of other on here In summary, WE have every right to comment about something that we see was OURS being diluted and commercialised into something that we don't recognise Best Jim I've read it, it's brilliant. I've also read David Nowell's book, and at least one other one whose name escapes me. They talk about a scene with a sense of community, where people found a place they felt they belonged. I like the sound of that. Remember that every tune that's overplayed to you may be someone else's first time hearing it, or someone else hearing a personal favourite with a strong emotional relevance. You mention "[people] dancing (poorly!) to overplayed records, paying too much for overplayed and non-rare records, attending venues where the promotors are only in it for the money and their own ego etc. etc." - but having read those books, all those things have been a part of the NS scene since at least the This England documentary, and probably earlier. Some of those people will stick around to become a full part of the scene, others will drift away. So what if they're dancing poorly - are they enjoying themselves? Are they enjoying the music? Good for them. Not everyone can dance well, and that includes people that have been into this stuff their whole lives. A gatekeeper mentality, a sense of "You're enjoying this all wrong" - that's the guaranteed way to kill any scene, to keep out those that might eventually bring that rawness and push those boundaries. (Mind you, even if people do push boundaries, they'll probably end up alienating people who don't want those particular boundaries pushed - does the phrase "Levine Must Go" ring any bells?) I'm the last person to stop anyone from enjoying themselves. Anyone can go out and do whatever they want for me, life too short & all that. However if you had to witness something that you have been a part of and loved for over 40 years being bastardised, commercialised and generally changed beyond recognition from what it was and should be about, just to accommodate newcomers, you might feel differently. You either get it or you don't. If you don't - don't try to change it, find your own thing to do Who decides what it should be about, though? Trying to keep something the same as it's always been - that's nostalgia, that's avoiding pushing boundaries, avoiding rawness and risk. I'm involved in several fan communities, I enjoy a lot of things with a niche appeal. Every single one of them has people making that same argument - it's not the same now, it's too commercial, it's changed beyond recognition, the wrong sort of people are getting involved - and, once again, it boils down to "You're enjoying this all wrong". I may not have been part of those fandoms for 40 years (I'm 39, so I'm working on it), but I've been in them for 25-30 years or so and these arguments keep coming around. Most of the people in that video will never go to a nighter, or even a "classic soul" night at the local pub. The ones that do will either see that it's not for them and move on, or they'll stick around and gradually become part of the scene. I mentioned the This England doc before - the reaction to that seems to be pretty much the same as this. I'm sure there are probably people on the scene now who came in though watching that and are now complaining about the new commercialisation, the exposure bringing in the wrong sort of people. Mock all you like - they do look a bit daft, after all. Just remember that some of them are people who are getting into the scene that you're a part of, that you love. They want to be where you are. They want to be you - they just don't know how. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Russell H Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The music is so infectious, so compelling, so spontaneous; it makes you wanna...................go and get some dance lessons! FFS How did you learn to dance like the people you saw around you? Did you watch them? Did you practise the steps on your own until you had them down, maybe with a few mates? Dance lessons are just an extension of that. I can't dance. I don't let that stop me (I possibly should...), but I'm aware of my limitations. I love the idea of someone showing me how to do some of the more impressive moves I've seen, even something some people take for granted like doing a spin for more than one rotation without falling over. There's a lot of bloody amazing dancing on the NS scene, even my limited exposure has shown me that. It's intimidating to someone just coming in, so it's only natural to look for help. If people like this guy are the only ones offering it, that's where they'll go. Maybe the answer is for someone to do it better, start up their own classes and teach them how to do it properly. Russell H, Just do what you want mate, Life's too bloody short to deny yourself some pleasure thinking what other people might be thinking. Go to your nighter and dance till cramp sets in, Nobody will be watching you, they'll all be scoring wrigley's Thanks mate. If I don't make it to the nighter this weekend, I'm seeing Angelo Starr the weekend after. If I do make it, I hope someone will be able to give me some pointers - I may finally be able to swap one of these left feet for a right one. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve L Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Who decides what it should be about, though? Trying to keep something the same as it's always been - that's nostalgia, that's avoiding pushing boundaries, avoiding rawness and risk. Nostalgia? You couldn't be wider of the mark if you tried, I'll reiterate what I said I'm my first post - you either get it or you don't. I'm outta here, going round and round in circles is pointless 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jim Ohara Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 How did you learn to dance like the people you saw around you? Did you watch them? Did you practise the steps on your own until you had them down, maybe with a few mates? Dance lessons are just an extension of that. I can't dance. I don't let that stop me (I possibly should...), but I'm aware of my limitations. I love the idea of someone showing me how to do some of the more impressive moves I've seen, even something some people take for granted like doing a spin for more than one rotation without falling over. There's a lot of bloody amazing dancing on the NS scene, even my limited exposure has shown me that. It's intimidating to someone just coming in, so it's only natural to look for help. If people like this guy are the only ones offering it, that's where they'll go. Maybe the answer is for someone to do it better, start up their own classes and teach them how to do it properly. Thanks mate. If I don't make it to the nighter this weekend, I'm seeing Angelo Starr the weekend after. If I do make it, I hope someone will be able to give me some pointers - I may finally be able to swap one of these left feet for a right one. i really don't think you get it you quote - A gatekeeper mentality, a sense of "You're enjoying this all wrong" - that's the guaranteed way to kill any scene, to keep out those that might eventually bring that rawness and push those boundaries. "‹The people I'm on about in these type of video clips have no chance of pushing boundaries or bringing rawness back to the scene - are you watching the same clips as me???? yes my type of gatekeeper mentality may "kill the scene" - but if THAT is the "scene", then it is well and truly dead and i want no part of it! i have my views and you have yours - enjoy! 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Little-stevie Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 i really don't think you get it you quote - A gatekeeper mentality, a sense of "You're enjoying this all wrong" - that's the guaranteed way to kill any scene, to keep out those that might eventually bring that rawness and push those boundaries. "‹The people I'm on about in these type of video clips have no chance of pushing boundaries or bringing rawness back to the scene - are you watching the same clips as me???? yes my type of gatekeeper mentality may "kill the scene" - but if THAT is the "scene", then it is well and truly dead and i want no part of it! i have my views and you have yours - enjoy! If this is the same guy doing the classes ( i think it is ).. His last event was a " working mens club " . see the link.. Northern soul meets pickled eggs..... Its not something we should take much notice of, its not gonna change our life... https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/pickled-eggs-babycham-trendy-northern-7879059 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Zoomsoulblue Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 What's wrong with people today, why the hell can't they just take drugs like the rest of us back in the 70ts and verbal the neck off each other - ahhhhhhh 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Russell H Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 "‹The people I'm on about in these type of video clips have no chance of pushing boundaries or bringing rawness back to the scene - are you watching the same clips as me???? Yup. Those particular people in those clips? Yup, they look daft. No chance. New people in general, some of whom may come in through a chance encounter with a dance class, or a mainstream film, or a breakfast cereal advert? Or a friend or relative of one of these dodgy, embarassing people? Could be, who knows? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Drewtg Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 How did you learn to dance like the people you saw around you? Did you watch them? Did you practise the steps on your own until you had them down, maybe with a few mates? Dance lessons are just an extension of that. I can't dance. I don't let that stop me (I possibly should...), but I'm aware of my limitations. I love the idea of someone showing me how to do some of the more impressive moves I've seen, even something some people take for granted like doing a spin for more than one rotation without falling over. There's a lot of bloody amazing dancing on the NS scene, even my limited exposure has shown me that. It's intimidating to someone just coming in, so it's only natural to look for help. If people like this guy are the only ones offering it, that's where they'll go. Maybe the answer is for someone to do it better, start up their own classes and teach them how to do it properly. Hey Russell, stand back from this a moment. The reason some of us find this appaling is because we like 'soul music'. It is performed with some kind of meaning - it speaks to us. I didn't 'learn' to dance, I just wanted to dance because that is how the music made me feel. I was never - and am still not - a brilliant dancer (whatever that is). I would watch someone like Steve Caesar own the floor and just know that I could never dance like that. I still danced and put my heart and soul into what I was feeling, singing along to the music I loved. There was a guy - who's name I can never remember - who used to dance down by the stage. His dance was all jerky, jumping around as though he was trying to put out a fire, he looked ridiculous - but boy did he love to dance! That guy had the respect of the whole floor because he was a dancer, unconcerned with what others thought of him. Maybe in his own mind he was brilliant, I don't know but I do know the guy loved the music and did his thing - and that's what it's all about, not choreography. Hit the floor mate, do what you feel, it's not a competition! 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post Little-stevie Posted February 4, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2015 The guy doing the class is just A keep fit class, line dancing of a sort.. No threat to the serious soul police, I ain't ever seen him out and about and I live in the same City.. You are safe to come from under your beds... Classic Sadot, lob a hand grenade onto the main wall and stand back.. Ha ha.. 4 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Stevie T Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) what? ...........not often lost for words .......ahem!.....is it that i am deluded enough to think i don't need classes ! ....have i awoken to a new world ? "‹sorry , that's me done , i shall return to my darkened room , fold my arms and allow the nurse to tighten the sleeve of my jacket Edited February 4, 2015 by Stevie T 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Russell H Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hey Russell, stand back from this a moment. The reason some of us find this appaling is because we like 'soul music'. It is performed with some kind of meaning - it speaks to us. I didn't 'learn' to dance, I just wanted to dance because that is how the music made me feel. I was never - and am still not - a brilliant dancer (whatever that is). I would watch someone like Steve Caesar own the floor and just know that I could never dance like that. I still danced and put my heart and soul into what I was feeling, singing along to the music I loved. There was a guy - who's name I can never remember - who used to dance down by the stage. His dance was all jerky, jumping around as though he was trying to put out a fire, he looked ridiculous - but boy did he love to dance! That guy had the respect of the whole floor because he was a dancer, unconcerned with what others thought of him. Maybe in his own mind he was brilliant, I don't know but I do know the guy loved the music and did his thing - and that's what it's all about, not choreography. Hit the floor mate, do what you feel, it's not a competition! Oh, I know, and I do, and I will. "Can't we all just get along"? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) I Have laughed at these classes in the past, however i,m not sure i like the idea of them happening in Manchester, we are better than that surely ....ah well long as they keep em Southside, not too much harm done i dont suppose. Edited February 4, 2015 by carty Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Little-stevie Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I Have laughed at these classes in the past, however i,m not sure i like the idea of them happening in Manchester, we are better than that surely ....ah well long as they keep em Southside, not too much harm done i dont suppose.... I don't think he would get away with that round your way, ha ha... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Popular Post dean jj Posted February 5, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2015 A couple of things.. First time I went to a nighter, on the train, on my own, got there, went in the pub across the road for a pre-event drink, and complete strangers made me welcome. Some of those guys I still know 35 years later. Second thing: If your gonna have documentries, films, books etc. then the culture is opened up to a wider audiance who might not just get it. Let us face it, debating what 'it' is seems to be soul source's main function and there is a lot of knowledge scattered about on here.. I think I side with the school that says if you have to have it explained you'll never understand. dean 6 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Soulandy Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Five minutes from my house. May go on Monday for summat to do with the sale soul crew :-) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Sylvia Dean Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Holy this is getting beyond a joke - u shudder to think what's next So far removed from the scene I lived and loved more than anything It's bloody embarasing Well I cannot see how a 40 year old can comment on a scene that started more than 15 years before they were born. Live and let live. There are plenty of events across the length and breadth of the UK for all consumers to suit all tastes and all age groups. What I find far more galling are comments like this. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Matt Male Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Well I cannot see how a 40 year old can comment on a scene that started more than 15 years before they were born. Live and let live. There are plenty of events across the length and breadth of the UK for all consumers to suit all tastes and all age groups. What I find far more galling are comments like this. We're 'Consumers'? You make it sound like we are shopping in supermarkets. So much for the soul eh? Edited February 6, 2015 by Matt Male Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Byrney Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Can you not? Let me explain, the scene strated late 60s, reached a peak around the mid 70s with the vast majority dropping off around 81. People like Jim carried on, for decades, unlike most who dropped off after 3 or so years. Arguably people like Jim have a wider bredth of experience of the scene that surprisingly to some carried on when most decided it wasn't for them. When talking about the wider scene I'd listen to people's like Jim over someone who did the wheel, Torch or Casino for 3 years or so. hope that helps Well I cannot see how a 40 year old can comment on a scene that started more than 15 years before they were born. Live and let live. There are plenty of events across the length and breadth of the UK for all consumers to suit all tastes and all age groups. What I find far more galling are comments like this. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jim Ohara Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Well I cannot see how a 40 year old can comment on a scene that started more than 15 years before they were born. Live and let live. There are plenty of events across the length and breadth of the UK for all consumers to suit all tastes and all age groups. What I find far more galling are comments like this. Good morning sylvia you have obviously checked my profile and figured out I am 40!!!! - well firstly, you've got your numbers wrong!!!! i am 50 (well in 2 weeks time that is - PM me for my address if you want to send me a present) therefore, having been into northern from the age of 14 (that's 36 years in case you still can't count!!!) CONSUMERS as you call them, can go to whatever they bloody like - however the point I make ( which is still 100% spot on as most on the thread agree) is that this FLUFFY scene that we seem to be witnessing is SO far removed from what it once was BTW I've checked your profile and see that you are indeed a fair bit older than I am - I would have therefore thought that if you have a northern background, then you may have understood Some people just don't get it! regards jim Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
KevH Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I've read it, it's brilliant. I've also read David Nowell's book, and at least one other one whose name escapes me. They talk about a scene with a sense of community, where people found a place they felt they belonged. I like the sound of that. Remember that every tune that's overplayed to you may be someone else's first time hearing it, or someone else hearing a personal favourite with a strong emotional relevance. You mention "[people] dancing (poorly!) to overplayed records, paying too much for overplayed and non-rare records, attending venues where the promotors are only in it for the money and their own ego etc. etc." - but having read those books, all those things have been a part of the NS scene since at least the This England documentary, and probably earlier. Some of those people will stick around to become a full part of the scene, others will drift away. So what if they're dancing poorly - are they enjoying themselves? Are they enjoying the music? Good for them. Not everyone can dance well, and that includes people that have been into this stuff their whole lives. A gatekeeper mentality, a sense of "You're enjoying this all wrong" - that's the guaranteed way to kill any scene, to keep out those that might eventually bring that rawness and push those boundaries. (Mind you, even if people do push boundaries, they'll probably end up alienating people who don't want those particular boundaries pushed - does the phrase "Levine Must Go" ring any bells?) Who decides what it should be about, though? Trying to keep something the same as it's always been - that's nostalgia, that's avoiding pushing boundaries, avoiding rawness and risk. I'm involved in several fan communities, I enjoy a lot of things with a niche appeal. Every single one of them has people making that same argument - it's not the same now, it's too commercial, it's changed beyond recognition, the wrong sort of people are getting involved - and, once again, it boils down to "You're enjoying this all wrong". I may not have been part of those fandoms for 40 years (I'm 39, so I'm working on it), but I've been in them for 25-30 years or so and these arguments keep coming around. Most of the people in that video will never go to a nighter, or even a "classic soul" night at the local pub. The ones that do will either see that it's not for them and move on, or they'll stick around and gradually become part of the scene. I mentioned the This England doc before - the reaction to that seems to be pretty much the same as this. I'm sure there are probably people on the scene now who came in though watching that and are now complaining about the new commercialisation, the exposure bringing in the wrong sort of people. Mock all you like - they do look a bit daft, after all. Just remember that some of them are people who are getting into the scene that you're a part of, that you love. They want to be where you are. They want to be you - they just don't know how. Trust me,they don't. 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Byrney Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Good morning sylvia you have obviously checked my profile and figured out I am 40!!!! - well firstly, you've got your numbers wrong!!!! i am 50 (well in 2 weeks time that is - PM me for my address if you want to send me a present) regards jim Didn't want to say Jim, but if you're 40 you must have had a hard paper round ;) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jim Ohara Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Didn't want to say Jim, but if you're 40 you must have had a hard paper round ;) Nice one Byrnie - at least you still have hair - well I hope it's yours and not a "highland" wish I still had mine - I really miss it Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Vin Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Holy this is getting beyond a joke - u shudder to think what's next So far removed from the scene I lived and loved more than anything It's bloody embarasing Totally agree.....Probably thats how the old Teddy Boys from the fifties felt when the Likes of Mud .Showaddywaddy and the Shaky appeared hamming it up in the 70s/ 80s 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jim Ohara Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Totally agree.....Probably thats how the old Teddy Boys from the fifties felt when the Likes of Mud .Showaddywaddy and the Shaky appeared hamming it up in the 70s/ 80s Nice one Vin, never thought of that comparison 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 offensive language removed reasons why dont allow such include... work safe filters, search engine classification etc etc do ask all members to follow this policy thanks mike Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jim Ohara Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Can you not? Let me explain, the scene strated late 60s, reached a peak around the mid 70s with the vast majority dropping off around 81. People like Jim carried on, for decades, unlike most who dropped off after 3 or so years. Arguably people like Jim have a wider bredth of experience of the scene that surprisingly to some carried on when most decided it wasn't for them. When talking about the wider scene I'd listen to people's like Jim over someone who did the wheel, Torch or Casino for 3 years or so. hope that helps Thanks Byrnie, glad to see you've got my back mate! cheers jim Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mark S Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I,m a rubbish dancer , do I need lessons ? , NO I,m great at being a rubbish dancer 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Russell H Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 So, I didn't go to the nighter - early start this morning, long day, absolutely knackered, probably wouldn't have enjoyed myself as much. Oh well, there's always the next one. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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