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craig W

Unheard / Undiscovered New Sounds

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Bit of a daft question really and impossible to answer but how much undiscovered or unheard soul is left. Are some people just sitting on the stuff waiting to cash in when the time is right or is there things out there that are just lying around no one knows what it is?I know most of the master tapes have been unearthed.

I have nothing soul wise in that department but I do have a number of 60s Psychadelic unheard/unreleased emi disc metal aceataes and keep thinking I will hold on to them they will only rise in value.

Me saying that how many people could there be out there who are not into soul music but who have soul material and think along my lines with holding on to it?

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I dont know. it hasnt been discovered yet, and i'm still trying to play catch up from a million miles behind, with all the stuff that has.

Question:

What was the biggest Island in the world before Australia was discovered?

Answer: Australia. It was always there, it just hadnt been discovered.

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There is a theory that soul music released on 45 and lp forms only the tip of a gigantic iceberg. Think of the Motown and Stax recording empires. Reliable sources tell us us that, for example, eleven takes of a track like The Originals "Suspicion" (or whatever it's actually called) were made; an oscure song that was never officially released at the time. Multiply this across Motown's entire Jobete / Stone Agate publishing catalogues and you get an idea of how much material is still to be unearthed. Recording studios like Hitsville and Stax were operational pretty much around the clock for at least a decade. Then think of how many other reasonably sized recording facilities there were in the States in the 1960s and 1970s. Threre remains a veritable flood of soul still out there that no-one has heard since it was first put on tape. How much of it might be good is open to debate, but I'm sure there are still some staggering discoveries to be made.

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There's a small group of (non-Northern) Motown interested blokes in the UK who collect anything and everything including unreleased stuff; one of them told me that's there are close to 60,000 unreleased Motown tracks on tapes in the Motown vault in LA.

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Motown 24x7x365x10yrs round the clock recording in Detroit and L.A not to mention the odd tracks that where bought in from other sources, pluck a number out of the air you could be right.

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Motown 24x7x365x10yrs round the clock recording in Detroit and L.A not to mention the odd tracks that where bought in from other sources, pluck a number out of the air you could be right.

link

You have a point, but I think in reality you can divide the figure by four or more; in many of the cases there is an instrumental, a backing/ band track (i.e. everything but the vocal), the vocal (acapella) and the final complete thing.

It possibly is true, when you consider a track like Suspicion, where there three known different versions and the intrumental too. If you take a song like the U/R Temptations 'Last one out is broken hearted', there are 4 diffent vocal takes; three by David Ruffin and one by Paul Williams all done in the same session.

60000 / 4 = 15000

15000 / 12 (1958 - 1970) = 1250

1250 / 52 weeks = 24

24 / 5 (not working at weekends) = 5 de novo songs a day

It would be interesting to know just how many Jobete songs there are registered @ BMI

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Craig i think the real question is how much of what is out here is "Any Good"

hopefully with all the unrelesed Tapes that folks like Ady Croadsell turn up then the answer is enough to wet our ever thirsty apetites.

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Craig i think the real question is how much of what is out here is "Any Good"

hopefully with all the unrelesed Tapes that folks like Ady Croadsell turn up then the answer is enough to wet our ever thirsty apetites.

link

I heard on a radio show a couple of years back , it could of been all singing all dancing all night on R2 that there was enough new material to go at for at least 10 years , but as you say Brett what sort of quality?

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Craig i think the real question is how much of what is out here is "Any Good"

hopefully with all the unrelesed Tapes that folks like Ady Croadsell turn up then the answer is enough to wet our ever thirsty apetites.

link

I know we are a snobby lot, but do you think it could be acceptable for a label promoter to release new material, done in a 60's style ( soulfully of course ) and be accepted and played on the scene........?

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Craig i think the real question is how much of what is out here is "Any Good"

hopefully with all the unrelesed Tapes that folks like Ady Croadsell turn up then the answer is enough to wet our ever thirsty apetites.

link

I heard on a radio show a couple of years back , it could of been all singing all dancing all night on R2  that there was enough new material to go at for at least 10 years , but as you say Brett what sort of quality?

link

On the basis of what Ady has turned up in the past couple of years I think there is still class unreleased/unheard stuff out there. Still remember the first time I heard the unreleased Nancy Wilcox tracks, not to mention the Thelma Jones C/U I was gobsmacked (still am really) :D:D

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I know we are a snobby lot, but do you think it could be acceptable for a label promoter to release new material, done in a 60's style ( soulfully of course ) and be accepted and played on the scene........?

link

I think Frank Popp Ensemble have had a go but how many regard this as soul music is debatable.

There web site is cool check it out here well worth a look with some sounds too :D

http://www.frankpopp.com/

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You have a point, but I think in reality you can divide the figure by four or more; in many of the cases there is an instrumental, a backing/ band track (i.e. everything but the vocal), the vocal (acapella) and the final complete thing.

It possibly is true, when you consider a track like Suspicion, where there three known different versions and the intrumental too.  If you take a song like the U/R Temptations 'Last one out is broken hearted', there are 4 diffent vocal takes; three by David Ruffin and one by Paul Williams all done in the same session.

60000 / 4 = 15000

15000 / 12 (1958 - 1970) = 1250

1250 / 52 weeks = 24

24 / 5 (not working at weekends) = 5 de novo songs a day

It would be interesting to know just how many Jobete songs there are registered @ BMI

link

Hippo, love that Ducky & The Glowlighters, sold Andy Rix's copy for him last year for - can't remember - 800 or a grand...

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I know we are a snobby lot, but do you think it could be acceptable for a label promoter to release new material, done in a 60's style ( soulfully of course ) and be accepted and played on the scene........?

link

Errrr 4 Vandals ???? :P:D

Sorry Brett couldn't resist :D

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I know we are a snobby lot, but do you think it could be acceptable for a label promoter to release new material, done in a 60's style ( soulfully of course ) and be accepted and played on the scene........?

link

No, not unless the label promoter only presses up half a dozen copies to make instantly "rare" as has happened recently (can't remember the song ? something to do with Keb and the deepfunk scene)

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I know we are a snobby lot, but do you think it could be acceptable for a label promoter to release new material, done in a 60's style ( soulfully of course ) and be accepted and played on the scene........?

link

A real tricky one this John, i bought the Sven Zetterberg "Buzz" 45 because i liked it, but the whole scene has to a large degree been built on original 1960'70's recordings, the newer stuff played tends to form the basis of the Modern room department........Jury still out on this one

By the way folks if we continue you this all day we won't have anything to talk about tonight :D

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Andy you know i will have to now destroy my lapt>>>>>?////***********8;;;u

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I know we are a snobby lot, but do you think it could be acceptable for a label promoter to release new material, done in a 60's style ( soulfully of course ) and be accepted and played on the scene........?

link

As said before there have been a few tries.... I always feel you'll never quite catch the "magic" produced by the artist/group given just enough studio time for a "one take".... too much re-take, mixing and the like these days to be "truly" 60's....

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I asked a similar question a few weeks ago about the total number of records that could be played and accepted by the average Northern Soul night crowd.

One of my points was that as an example, John Manship lists about 20,000 NM tracks and another 6000 xover etc in his price list book. (Of which I only know about 40%)

Then you have some good b sides, lp tracks, tracks after 1974, unlisted tracks like Willie Brown Get out and get it, never mind the unreleased motown and other label tapes.

I read that there is only an estimated 7000 tracks ever been played at 'All Nighters'. So in answer to your original question, assuming the DJ's are brave enough to play something that may clear the floor, there could be +30,000 tracks that have never been played or if they have only a small number of followers have ever heard of them. (IMO)

Ed

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