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KevH

Ronnie Forte - J.manships Auction.

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Wasn't it covered up as Benny Harper?

Could of been! Eddie Parker, Benny Harper. 

 

Never saw it written down, just heard it over the mike in the main room and it sounded like Eddie Parker..

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Great record as it is,i'm more than a little surprised at the price with 2 weeks to go.....gulp.!!!

 

http://www.raresoulman.co.uk/index.php/auction/9982/that-was-whiskey-talkin-nervous-breakdown.

 

Was £25 25 years ago but has been bumping along at two hundred smackeroonies for a while now. This record is in a zero supply situation with nobody selling as it has two very good sides. The final auction figure may well be extremely high but the price of this record is not likely to go down in the years ahead.

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I think the Ronnie Forte record arrived here in volume in the UK in the late 70's. Similar to Frank Beverly on Sassy and John Bowie. Certainly Pep in Wolverhampton had load's.

 

All mint condition and sold for either £3 or possibly £5. That's when/where I got mine.

 

So, plenty out there but likely to be sitting in dormant collections. And if they aren't circulating and there is demand.......

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Sold mine last year for £200.....didn`t want to but had to, needed a quick injection of funds, That`s usually the catalyst for a records price to go through the roof  :facepalm: 

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Had it sold it - alright but lacks something.

Airplay!..............I reckon it`s a lot rarer than we think and is one that`s missing from most play boxes so people just don`t know it.

Edited by Steve Lane

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Airplay!..............I reckon it`s a lot rarer than we think and is one that`s missing from most play boxes so people just don`t know it.

 

Really Steve,wouldn't have out this down as underplayed or a not known.? 

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Definitely played at Wigan Casino, covered up as Eddie Parker! 

 

It was never covered up, it was always Ronnie Forte - only Alan Rhodes had a copy and he played it uncovered.

Mr Anderson told me he bought over 600 copies of Ronnie Forte and put them out at £2 each.

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I think the Ronnie Forte record arrived here in volume in the UK in the late 70's. Similar to Frank Beverly on Sassy and John Bowie. Certainly Pep in Wolverhampton had load's.

 

All mint condition and sold for either £3 or possibly £5. That's when/where I got mine.

 

So, plenty out there but likely to be sitting in dormant collections. And if they aren't circulating and there is demand.......

 

Spot on Kev, Pep bought them from John at £2 each and sold them to us at £3 each, John Bowie, Admirations on Paree, Ringleaders, Ronnie Forte etc.

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I remember buying John Bowie and Ronnie Forte around 1983/4 for something like £3 apiece, I think from Soul Bowl. So were still selling cheap and in numbers even then.

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It was never covered up, it was always Ronnie Forte - only Alan Rhodes had a copy and he played it uncovered.

Mr Anderson told me he bought over 600 copies of Ronnie Forte and put them out at £2 each.

The very first time I heard it in the Casino it was covered up as what I thought was Eddie Parker.

I remember thinking, I doubt that is really Eddie Parker!

 

It wasn't announced as Ronnie Forte that's for sure.

 

 I later found out it was by Ronnie Forte and bought it from Anderson, but that was a while later.

Edited by solidsoul

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The very first time I heard it in the Casino it was covered up as what I thought was Eddie Parker.

I remember thinking, I doubt that is really Eddie Parker!

 

It wasn't announced as Ronnie Forte that's for sure.

 

 I later found out it was by Ronnie Forte and bought it from Anderson, but that was a while later.

 

Tape I made must be a fake then...

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Sold mine last year for £200.....didn`t want to but had to, needed a quick injection of funds, That`s usually the catalyst for a records price to go through the roof  :facepalm: 

I know that feeling, Gene Woodbury, Harvey Averne Dozen and more I don't even wanna think about. Lol

Nevermind  :rofl: 

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Tape I made must be a fake then...

What tape?

  

I know what I heard, and the main reason I remember is, I doubted Eddie Parker was the real artist and it must be a cover-up!

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What tape?

  

I know what I heard, and the main reason I remember is, I doubted Eddie Parker was the real artist and it must be a cover-up!

 

OK not worth falling out over.  Every tape I have of it which I recorded myself, at Wigan, has it introduced as Ronnie Forte, by Alan Rhodes.

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It was never covered up, it was always Ronnie Forte - only Alan Rhodes had a copy and he played it uncovered.

Mr Anderson told me he bought over 600 copies of Ronnie Forte and put them out at £2 each.

In Johns auction sales guff he says he played it first at Cleethorpes after finding it in the states and sold a spare copy to Alan Rhodes.

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OK not worth falling out over.  Every tape I have of it which I recorded myself, at Wigan, has it introduced as Ronnie Forte, by Alan Rhodes.

J Manship says it was covered up at Cleethorpes. 

The first couple of times it was played at Wigan it must have  been covered.

"Whiskey Talkin' is a fairly distinctive title, and I had never heard it played in Wigan before then!

I'm not in the business of rewriting history.  Too many people doing that!  

 I am just saying I am a witness to a fact!

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J Manship says it was covered up at Cleethorpes. 

The first couple of times it was played at Wigan it must have  been covered.

"Whiskey Talkin' is a fairly distinctive title, and I had never heard it played in Wigan before then!

I'm not in the business of rewriting history.  Too many people doing that!  

 I am just saying I am a witness to a fact!

 

Alan often used to play sounds that were big at St Ives and Cleethorpes so ok.  I still never heard it covered up at Wigan though, but I wasn't there every single week in 77, maybe 3 in every 4.

Edited by Pete S

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Alan often used to play sounds that were big at St Ives and Cleethorpes so ok.  I still never heard it covered up at Wigan though, but I wasn't there every single week in 77, maybe 3 in every 4.

 see next post.

Edited by solidsoul

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http://indangerousrhythm.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/ronnie-forte-that-was-whiskey-talkin.html

 

I knew it was covered up at Wigan, but I must of heard Eddie Parker over the mic, when it was Benny Harper that was said.

 

Looks like it was first played at Wigan about Feb 1977.

 

I am pleased I am not losing my memory after all! 

 

This article tells more about it, that I found on " In Dangerous Rhythm" blog

 

http://indangerousrhythm.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/ronnie-forte-that-was-whiskey-talkin.html

post-9294-0-26303500-1432210732_thumb.jp

Edited by solidsoul

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If its true about 600 stock copies coming over of this and others...where the hell do they go?! Is it exaggeration, 600 is a lot of copies!

 

Yep, Ringleaders too, Frankie Beverley on Sassy, loads of titles that are well into three figures price wise brought over here in large quantity.

Edited by chalky

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Otis lee too aparrently. Where are they though; are there really 600 sat in collections? Guess that there easily could be.

On the other hand, 500-1000 copies of a record, in the context of 6 billion people in the world, is still a pretty rare record

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Otis lee too aparrently. Where are they though; are there really 600 sat in collections? Guess that there easily could be.

On the other hand, 500-1000 copies of a record, in the context of 6 billion people in the world, is still a pretty rare record

 

I remember everyone (i.e. about 50 different people in Edinburgh where I lived then) getting copies of the Frank Beverly and they probably still have them. Ringleaders was £10 for a long time - bought and sold it several times.

 

'Whiskey Talking' was offered to me for £10-£15 on at least three different occasions in the late 80s or early 90s but I wasn't into it then - not sure I am now. 

 

Also - 'Say it to my Face' Royal Five - loads about in the late 80s £5 

 

'Burnt Toast and Black Coffee' Mike Pedicin - saw it on sale a lot at one time (mid 90s?) - a tenner at most 

 

Future price hike? 'Way You've Been Acting lately' Al Kent - I once gave away two as it was so common and it seems to be rising now.

 

Oh well! I'm more interested in how they sound anyway.

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Yep, Ringleaders too, Frankie Beverley on Sassy, loads of titles that are well into three figures price wise brought over here in large quantity.

 

Thats right  mate, Vallances electrical shop in Mansfield had copies of Frank Beverley….. :huh: 

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I think its safe to say that our concept of rarity is quite a fragile one. 1000 additional collectors worldwide and a 45 that exists in the 100s becomes rare, 1000 less collectors and it becomes common. A 45 has a surge or drop in popularity, its availability responds accordingly.

Tracks that might have seemed common because they seemed to be in every sales list and in every sales box, might just have been unwanted, and in fact every bit as rare, or rarer, than an established popular track thats considered a rarity.

although prices still seem to spiral upwards, you have to predict a time when a whole load of a 45 such as the ronnie forte come to the market around the same time, if there are 100s sat in collections. They're not sat in the collections of youngsters after all.

A price bubble could be forming in other words, due to a temporary cultural trend.

Edited by pow wow mik

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Otis lee too aparrently. Where are they though; are there really 600 sat in collections? Guess that there easily could be.

On the other hand, 500-1000 copies of a record, in the context of 6 billion people in the world, is still a pretty rare record

 

Otis Lee whilst there was some quantity it was no where near the numbers of WT, Ringleaders, Frank Beverley etc.

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It's easy to forget that the bigger importers were able to buy many of these titles in relatively vast quantities.

 

Ronnie Forte was readily available as a 'dormant oldie' for years, as were things like Billy Hambric on Drum or Larry Atkins on Highland. Then there were titles like El Anthony on La Cindy or Ronnie McCain on Triode or Reggie Soul on Capri which were considered too common to play out.

 

Over a thirty-plus year period those quantities get whittled away. If the records are good they tend to stay in collections. Gene Woodbury 'Ever Again' is a classic example and there are dozens more. 

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I remember buying John Bowie and Ronnie Forte around 1983/4 for something like £3 apiece, I think from Soul Bowl. So were still selling cheap and in numbers even then.

I did exactly the same, sold both with a big mark up, but nothing like they go for now!

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In Johns auction sales guff he says he played it first at Cleethorpes after finding it in the states and sold a spare copy to Alan Rhodes.

 

True. I remember the week he got it 'cos it was the topic of conversation in the cafe on the pier. It wasn't covered at that point because I remember being skeptical about the title "Whiskey Talking" but "Nervous Breakdown" sounded a better bet. I've got to say that neither side did much for me.....

 

Ian D :)

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I think its safe to say that our concept of rarity is quite a fragile one. 1000 additional collectors worldwide and a 45 that exists in the 100s becomes rare, 1000 less collectors and it becomes common. A 45 has a surge or drop in popularity, its availability responds accordingly.

Tracks that might have seemed common because they seemed to be in every sales list and in every sales box, might just have been unwanted, and in fact every bit as rare, or rarer, than an established popular track thats considered a rarity.

although prices still seem to spiral upwards, you have to predict a time when a whole load of a 45 such as the ronnie forte come to the market around the same time, if there are 100s sat in collections. They're not sat in the collections of youngsters after all.

A price bubble could be forming in other words, due to a temporary cultural trend.

 

I started a thread some time back,asking the question - what numbers denote rarity .? It'll be archived on here.

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Swapped mine with Pete French for Roger Pace and Betty Turner ( two nice demo's) . Heard Mr Forte out and kicked myself. Got one back and had to pay £100 to get it. That was about 5 years ago though. Some prices are crazy at the moment.

 

Kev

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