Underground, Overground Wom

[Guest]

It was definitely underground during the 80's and into the 90's, if underground is the right word.  No promoter courted the media.  Of course the media was always around, Stafford (Chasing Rainbows) and Blackburn (Old Grey Whistle Test) just two venues that got featured.  But 99.9% of those who went to nighters went because they were into the music and more importantly the scene.  There was an attitude about everyone.  All up for a laugh, piss takin, mischief making.  Some real proper characters who would torment the living daylights out of you if you let them but most importantly they would have your back.   

 

There was no lax door policy problems.  Memberships were a must for most venues.  Even Soul Nights prior to the nighters never had too many problems with the locals, if any problems it would have been sorted pretty sharpish.

 

The promoters, the DJ's and those who went to dance or search the record bars, all were mates, none of the them and us bollox, no one locked away in their own private rooms or cordoned off behind the stage.

 

Greta days, great music, great people.

 

By the time Keele came about the rot was setting in, musically at least.  Don't get me wrong it was a good nighter, great laugh and great record bar but musically it took loads steps backwards.  A far cry from the previous decade.  Then came the onset of the returnee who were only interested in what they had heard from their time on the scene during the 70's (a brief time for some).  It was turning slowly retro and some promoters seized an opportunity.  

 

It has got to the point where the scene is becoming a joke to those on the outside with the way people are dressing and carrying on.  Venues reputations going down the pan because of the piss heads in for an all-night bar.  You reap what you sow as the saying goes.

[Guest]

Spot on.

[Quinvy]

Never experienced the 70s and the Stafford / newies era was when I started and what I used to love. That excitement seemed to pretty much die out by late 90s. By then, Stafford etc had generated its own 'oldies' and even at so-called 'progressive' venues i was hearing 98% of records I already knew and same well worn things every week or else excruciating 1950s blues records (i can remember an hour of that at the 100 Club one time that my enthusiasm has never really recovered from! Lol!)

For me, what happened was, the 80s newies days were fuelled by a plentiful supply of quality 60s releases which had previously been overlooked because they had a different tempo from the traditional stomper. But overlooked records of that kind dried up, just as the stompers had before them.

There's no chance now that those kind of times can ever return for a scene based on 1960s records as the conditions that led to them just don't exist any more...The supply of quality 1960s 'rare soul' records of all kinds is dwindling. So i can't see anyone outside the existing elite of djs putting together a fresh and groundbreaking set at all or even arousing much genuine excitement without considerable wealth and established contacts!

You can only blame only so much on 'returners' and oldies...fact is the 80s version of the scene ran out of steam, just like the 70s before it. Inevitable if it continues to be more or less entirely based on 1960s records...

Nailed it. 

[Chalky]

Quality "new" discoveries were always destined at some point to dry up.  But there was still plenty of new records discovered during the 90's and into the 2000's at venues such as the Wilton, 100 Club and a multitude of venues that made up the scene in the abscence of a central venue.  There wasn't/isn't a never ending supply.  After all we are talking about records made in one decade satisfying the needs of a scene/movement for over 4 decades, never going to happen.  

 

In the abscence of a large anount of new discoveries knowledge and imagination have a greater role to play and for many unfortunately they appear to have neither and therefore we get a largely retro scene, forever looking back.

[Liam2005]

If you all consider the amount of unreleased material discovered through the 9ts and currently then theres plenty of new tunes. I just got a cd (pied piper vol 2) in the post from Ady and its awesome. Yes many things are exclusive and versions from tapes and acetates but DJ's playing the same old stuff, jesus its painful sometimes. DJ's should look to these CD releases and cut tracks to play, or maybe the egos get in the way.

 

Theres tones of stuff out there but no one seems to have the balls to dj with them. Yes of course Ady does but others could cut pieces and play them up and down the country. The other thing is nowadays all the really old collectors have got all the mega tunes, the one offs etc and there lost forever to the dancefloor. Look back at the dj sets from Stafford etc and later and ask yourself where have all these great tunes gone ??...into collections of people who don't live the nightlife anymore.

 

Greg

[Guest]

see one the lads that had a hand in running Allanton, was online, hat's off to you n Jim Tennant for keeping it going. For four years

Edited May 27, 2015 by tenuate

[Labeat]

It's not all about big ticket tunes, and no-one knows everything. Quality Soul has not dried up, there are two sides to a record (as if you needed telling) so Liam2005 we don't need to have carvers done on that scale.... get discovering those cheap and cheerful semi-known B sides.

[Liam2005]

It's not all about big ticket tunes, and no-one knows everything. Quality Soul has not dried up, there are two sides to a record (as if you needed telling) so Liam2005 we don't need to have carvers done on that scale.... get discovering those cheap and cheerful semi-known B sides.

 

How else would one play these great tunes lost to the scene without doing a carver then, as most dj's going back to Ian Clark, carl fortnum, flynny,ady,mick smith, alan h., etc etc were doing it for years. The dancefloor at the 100club would be at loss straight away. Yes i agree there's many fantastic cheap records and when i was a dj at the100club nighters i would was playing cheap stuff like Parisians (£10), wade flemmons (£5), falcons (£5) along with big ticket items and unissued carvers from master tapes supplied from Ady. All i'm saying is mix it up and bring new sounds to the dancefloor. Dj's in the 8ts and 9ts onwards were doing this all the time, i know as i was there when we all first got access to things like chuck jackson "whats with this loneliness", Hytones "good news", OC Tolbert, other brothers etc etc. 

 

At the capitol soul club they always did dj sets of £20 and under, a solid 30+ mins set for the collectors. This is where alot of cheapies went from being cheap to now so called big money items plus carvers from master tapes. Yes i would like dj's to do this more but it simply does not happen at most venues, most dj's play the same solid bankers. Maybe the crowd is different from the 8ts/9ts and are more set in there ways . I totally agree that there many great cheap records but also many great tracks that only can be played on carvers as they exist only from master tapes.  Cheers just my opinion matey   

[Labeat]

Liam (Greg), i was at Different strokes a bit back when Aidy played his Pied Piper stuff, as brilliant as they were i'm not sure if it's the right thing to do to mass produce them onto 45's, i would be more than happy just to have the cd's.

Two other points i would disagree with.... You say no-one has the ball's to dj with ton's of stuff?? not sure what venue's you attend but the places i frequent (quite a few) are blessed with so much variety of underplayed, semi-known good dance tracks and relatively new introductions.

Your other assessment.... all the old collectors have got all the mega tunes (as if to say stashed at home forever)?? No they

haven't, the likes of Sam, Butch, Mick, Andy, to name a few, share them with us, if the guys that have all the one-offs only to never let the outside world hear them then let them deny us... there are more than enough to keep us regulars happy.

I respect you mate and don't wish to enter into any negative dialogue, i guess we both have our opinions Neil

[Quinvy]

If you all consider the amount of unreleased material discovered through the 9ts and currently then theres plenty of new tunes. I just got a cd (pied piper vol 2) in the post from Ady and its awesome. Yes many things are exclusive and versions from tapes and acetates but DJ's playing the same old stuff, jesus its painful sometimes. DJ's should look to these CD releases and cut tracks to play, or maybe the egos get in the way.

 

Theres tones of stuff out there but no one seems to have the balls to dj with them. Yes of course Ady does but others could cut pieces and play them up and down the country. The other thing is nowadays all the really old collectors have got all the mega tunes, the one offs etc and there lost forever to the dancefloor. Look back at the dj sets from Stafford etc and later and ask yourself where have all these great tunes gone ??...into collections of people who don't live the nightlife anymore.

 

Greg

I agree Greg, and I did used to do exactly that. I had carvers done off CD's and played them out. I also tried to find out where some of the one off's and acetates had gone. Trouble is, even when I found the owners, they wouldn't part with them at any price. Such a shame that people are deprived of dancing to some fantastic tracks.

[Chalky]

Uneleased material from the vaults will be a major source.  But at about £30 for a carver/acetate why not just play from a CD?

[Liam2005]

Yeah lets have a unissued cd night, i'll get Mick H. to dj  with a cd player lol, keeping it real as much as possible  . Mick are you up for it ?

I'm gonna leave when Ady spins those new carvers on Sat night at the 100club haha.  

 

Right i'm off to buy some funk....joking!!

 

Laters

 

Greg

Edited May 28, 2015 by liam2005

[Len]

Uneleased material from the vaults will be a major source.  But at about £30 for a carver/acetate why not just play from a CD?

 

'Cause it's confusing D.Jing with C.D's   

 

Point is - They should be played (From C.D or a cut)  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Len]

Never experienced the 70s and the Stafford / newies era was when I started and what I used to love. That excitement seemed to pretty much die out by late 90s. By then, Stafford etc had generated its own 'oldies' and even at so-called 'progressive' venues i was hearing 98% of records I already knew and same well worn things every week or else excruciating 1950s blues records (i can remember an hour of that at the 100 Club one time that my enthusiasm has never really recovered from! Lol!)

For me, what happened was, the 80s newies days were fuelled by a plentiful supply of quality 60s releases which had previously been overlooked because they had a different tempo from the traditional stomper. But overlooked records of that kind dried up, just as the stompers had before them.

There's no chance now that those kind of times can ever return for a scene based on 1960s records as the conditions that led to them just don't exist any more...The supply of quality 1960s 'rare soul' records of all kinds is dwindling. So i can't see anyone outside the existing elite of djs putting together a fresh and groundbreaking set at all or even arousing much genuine excitement without considerable wealth and established contacts!

You can only blame only so much on 'returners' and oldies...fact is the 80s version of the scene ran out of steam, just like the 70s before it. Inevitable if it continues to be more or less entirely based on 1960s records...

 

Yes, a good post mate - I, and many others also don’t get that excitement you talk of as we once did, and to be fair to those returnees that want what they experienced in the 70’s, ‘us lot’ want what we experienced in the 80’s and 90’s.

 

As you say, individual eras of the Scene run out of steam - Today’s Scene is ‘fine ‘n’ dandy’ for those that never experienced other eras as they have nothing to compare it to. In saying this, it’s not that bad, it’s just not the same for some of us that’s all. That excitement we all enjoyed (whatever era) also has something to do with being young and having nothing else to focus on (Life eventually gets in the way)

 

Ref the music, what Chalky said in Post Number 56.....“In the absence of a large amount of new discoveries, knowledge and imagination have a greater role to play”.....is so right - Some great sets can be cobbled together with the huge ‘back catalogue’ that we already have.

 

Stay positive, and enjoy what there is - It’s still better than watching ‘Britain’s Got Talent’ (just)  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited May 28, 2015 by LEN