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Satans Breed "road Runner"jenges, Anyone Know The True Value Of This 45?

Look At Your Box vince ayres

 
Posted
4 hours ago, Mace said:

Well, well, well...look what I found on Adobe Bootfilter......:D

levine-snide-dirty-boot.jpg

Hahaha!!!

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Posted
9 hours ago, WoodButcher said:

Light touch with the Emboss filter in "Gimp" ... :)

More of a magnifying glass man myself WB :D

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Posted
9 hours ago, Mace said:

Well, well, well...look what I found on Adobe Bootfilter......:D

levine-snide-dirty-boot.jpg

Only shows up under infra red light that one - fair play to whoever pressed this 45 to leave a warning on the label  so as no one got 'confused' .

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Posted
8 hours ago, markw said:

It is definitely there on the Harry Moon. Looking at my scans I posted up earlier, this mark is not visible other than as the faintest of specks. In fact, to be honest, I have never noticed this before - it's so small and just looks like a mark on the label from wear and tear. However, on close examination, it is definitely there and I took a closer pic of it, as below. It is pretty much exactly the same position as on the picture of the copy above. I bought mine off George Mahood maybe 18 months/2 years ago.

Harry Moon (matrix close up).JPG

And as you can see Mark - it reads 'backwards' .

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Posted

Does anyone have a listing for Jenges and the associated labels with the colours of the releases etc?

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Posted
13 hours ago, Kris Holmes said:

the circular lines under the label are characteristic of United Record Pressing in Nashville but their stuff can't fool anyone because they all have the small "U" in a circle scratched in the deadwax.

 

I was thinking that as well, but these swirly-look-a-likes look a whole lot like the stuff coming from the Pallas pressing plant in Germany (and its US branch) as well...

https://www.discogs.com/label/271440-Schallplattenfabrik-Pallas-GmbH
https://www.discogs.com/label/632752-Pallas-USA
https://www.discogs.com/label/277449-PO-Pallas
https://www.discogs.com/label/137255-Pallas

Some examples:

 

 

pallas0.jpg

pallas2.jpg

pallas1.jpg

pallasUSA1.jpg

pallasUSA2.jpg

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Posted
15 hours ago, Mace said:

Also, all those other label scans have nice crisp clean centres.....even the ones with label wear......Levines looks rougher cut around the centre hole.......

The "lookalike 20" have perfectly cut centre holes if that's any help

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Posted
16 hours ago, tsu tomatoes said:

So if the 3 recent copies are boots, can we assume that it was in fact, never issued then?

No. As per my previous post it has been listed in the Soul harmony Singles book for years and the entries come from peoples collections.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Andy Mac said:

No. As per my previous post it has been listed in the Soul harmony Singles book for years and the entries come from peoples collections.

There are plenty of errors in Soul Harmony Singles though Drew.

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Posted

A better scan of Harry & Vee Vee for you

56acbd039a6d8_HarryVeeVee-Sin.thumb.jpg.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, chalky said:

A better scan of Harry & Vee Vee for you

56acbd039a6d8_HarryVeeVee-Sin.thumb.jpg.

My copy has a much deeper red and is a shiney label. Maybe this is just a bit worn ?

 

11 minutes ago, chalky said:

There are plenty of errors in Soul Harmony Singles though Drew.

That's true Chalks, but I'm sure I saw a copy of Satans Breed years ago....but maybe my memory is playing tricks.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Andy Mac said:

My copy has a much deeper red and is a shiney label. Maybe this is just a bit worn ?

 

That's true Chalks, but I'm sure I saw a copy of Satans Breed years ago....but maybe my memory is playing tricks.

Satan's Breed is listed in the Renee discography as Renee 5006 - Since you left me b/w Roadrunner . Anyone got or even seen this ?

And don't forget there is another group called Satan's Breed .

Edited by surfcity

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Posted
23 minutes ago, surfcity said:

Satan's Breed is listed in the Renee discography as Renee 5006 - Since you left me b/w Roadrunner . Anyone got or even seen this ?

And Renee 5006 also lists as Dream Merchants -Since You Left Me / The Girl I Need .

This along with the mispressing of the 'B' side on the Jenges as mentioned earlier ... label reads "The Girl I Need" on the copy Ian has yet apparently plays something entitled "Can't Pull Myself Away" ... just makes things even murkier and harder to fathom.

Here's a pic of the 'b'-side by the way ... 

56acf3ce8e179_iansbside-Copy.jpg.e957a07

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Posted
1 hour ago, WoodButcher said:

And Renee 5006 also lists as Dream Merchants -Since You Left Me / The Girl I Need .

This along with the mispressing of the 'B' side on the Jenges as mentioned earlier ... label reads "The Girl I Need" on the copy Ian has yet apparently plays something entitled "Can't Pull Myself Away" ... just makes things even murkier and harder to fathom.

Here's a pic of the 'b'-side by the way ... 

56acf3ce8e179_iansbside-Copy.jpg.e957a07

Yes I noticed that WB . That's a 'swirly' boot you've pictured ? Where did that turn up ? Don't answer if you don't want to . Perhaps if this is unreleased a la Johnny Watson then someone ballsed up at the pressing plant with the tracks ? Bear in mind it was featured on a CD many moons ago so someone had access to a recording . I posted 2 scans of the Indelegents / Stop you're breaking my heart / Jenges . One looks right - matt and flat the other looks bright and shiny [must stress that not a very good picture] Would like to see any other copies of this 45 if anyone has them .

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Posted
2 hours ago, surfcity said:

Where did that turn up ?

It's a photo of the b-side of IL's  copy , from his FB timeline ... :)

11112222.thumb.PNG.84b1a2871ccaa05ad5f863333.thumb.PNG.ecdd9b1847a3041ac811fb60d

 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, WoodButcher said:

It's a photo of the b-side of IL's  copy , from his FB timeline ... :)

11112222.thumb.PNG.84b1a2871ccaa05ad5f863333.thumb.PNG.ecdd9b1847a3041ac811fb60d

 

Good god - listen to them . Glad Ian bought it 'affordably' as you would'nt want to be paying £1000 for a bootleg now would you ? And I like the way GS get's a touch huffy with his 'I played it first as I found 2 copies' - 'don't forget' - know what he meant by 'copies' now :D

Edited by surfcity

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Posted

I don't know about listen to them - listen to you lot - how said is this - give it a rest and get a life doing something useful, please.  Go and find out if metal record adaptors with record company logos and venue logos are licensed from the people who own the trademarks for instance.

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Posted

It'd be interesting to know what Geoff got in trades for it , a couple of soul-packs maybe ... ?

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Posted
Just now, WoodButcher said:

It'd be interesting to know what Geoff got in trades for it , a couple of soul-packs maybe ... ?

I wouldn't have traded a used tea bag for it

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I don't know about listen to them - listen to you lot - how said is this - give it a rest and get a life doing something useful, please.  Go and find out if metal record adaptors with record company logos and venue logos are licensed from the people who own the trademarks for instance.

Why's that Pete , have you got a full set of the adapters we're not supposed to know about  ... :thumbsup: 

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Posted
Just now, WoodButcher said:

Why's that Pete , have you got a full set of the adapters we're not supposed to know about  ... :thumbsup: 

Might have...

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I don't know about listen to them - listen to you lot - how said is this - give it a rest and get a life doing something useful, please.  Go and find out if metal record adaptors with record company logos and venue logos are licensed from the people who own the trademarks for instance.

Surely you as a reputable dealer Pete would be just as interested in the information that has come to light in the last few days ? Next time a Satan's Breed lands in your lap you won't be paying a grand for it .

Edited by surfcity

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Posted
5 minutes ago, surfcity said:

Surely you as a reputable dealer Pete would be just as interested in the information that has come to light in the last few days ? Next time a Satan's Breed lands in your lap you won't be paying a grand for it .

I wouldn't have touched it with a bargepole before all this fuss because it's not very good.  

 

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Posted
44 minutes ago, Pete S said:

I don't know about listen to them - listen to you lot - how said is this - give it a rest and get a life doing something useful, please.  Go and find out if metal record adaptors with record company logos and venue logos are licensed from the people who own the trademarks for instance.

Says a record dealer!! To be expected for record collectors to get to the bottom of whether records are original or not. Don't read the thread if you're not interested.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, markw said:

Says a record dealer!! To be expected for record collectors to get to the bottom of whether records are original or not. Don't read the thread if you're not interested.

It's not that though, is it.  It's another "lets find a scapegoat" topic.  

Edited by Pete S

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Posted
8 minutes ago, markw said:

Says a record dealer!! To be expected for record collectors to get to the bottom of whether records are original or not. Don't read the thread if you're not interested.

That's what I was thinking Mark . You know the saying 'if you give it - you got to take it' . If people try to rump you - then expect a few questions and if you do get found out - don't cry . If you poke someone in the eye - expect a reaction .

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Posted
5 minutes ago, surfcity said:

That's what I was thinking Mark . You know the saying 'if you give it - you got to take it' . If people try to rump you - then expect a few questions and if you do get found out - don't cry . If you poke someone in the eye - expect a reaction .

What if you wear an eye patch though, then you'd only have one eye.  What does "try to rump you" mean by the way LOL

20 minutes ago, markw said:

Says a record dealer!! To be expected for record collectors to get to the bottom of whether records are original or not. Don't read the thread if you're not interested.

OK then.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Pete S said:

What if you wear an eye patch though, then you'd only have one eye.  What does "try to rump you" mean by the way LOL

 

Have you over .

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Posted

So, how many copies (suspect or otherwise) are in the hands of DJs, in the UK, that we know of?

Sean

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Posted

Just the three Sean , as far as we can gather.

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Posted
1 hour ago, WoodButcher said:

Just the three Sean , as far as we can gather.

Thank you. :thumbsup:

So is that those belonging to Butch, Ian Levine and this Geoff chap?

Sean

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Posted

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

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Posted

Ps. If you want a novelty record you can't beat the snake, we all know the words( inside the sssssssnake)  got to be better than meep meep  for singalong value cheers

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Posted

Sorry I get told off for not putting, lol, smiley faces etc because I'm sure most of you know what I mean. s.w.a.l.k. Cheers

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Posted

Some say music IS first and I (kinda) agree but it doesn't necessary mean "music is all !" To me (IMHO) that is. I can have the music in my head and sing out loud under the shower to the inconvenience of the wife, the cat, the dog and the neighbors. Others listen (rather to hide the outside world sound/buzz/noise) with headphones to MP3Z and still call it music !? I don't know about supposed louder than loud gigs with DJ's and their computer and other machines that kills everything that keeps us alive (quote)... So to say, I'm not to sure to dig 'road runner' for it's musicality and doubt it will ever achieve "anthem" status on any scene. Still I find such thread interesting from a collector's (I don't collect the Jenges stuffs to make it clear) point of view. Music and records are an odd universe in 4D's at times and to read meaningless supposed misleading points, are just bringing it to the real world; in 3D's: the naive, the liar and the cheater.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Pga1 said:

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

It isn't about what we always wish to hear out and there is more than just "us" out there.  There are many thousands who have nothing to do with the UK Northern Soul Scene which many seem to think that is all there is and certainly what it is all about :rolleyes: There are many collectors who don't go out, who aren't part of the scene, who collect the labels as well as the music.  Strangely there are people who like records like this who don't always want to hear a 100 mph stomper that has been hammered for 50 years :rofl: It is quite evident from the discussion that there is an interest. I don't see any kudos being created, I haven't really seen anyone raving over it, just an attempt to prove its authenticity, if it is real and how to tell its real.

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Posted (edited)

to try and put this rambling topic to bed tho its a fair bet to say that if its got the swirly labels then its a recent press............... thats it

Edited by dave pinch

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Posted
1 hour ago, chalky said:

It isn't about what we always wish to hear out and there is more than just "us" out there.  There are many thousands who have nothing to do with the UK Northern Soul Scene which many seem to think that is all there is and certainly what it is all about :rolleyes: There are many collectors who don't go out, who aren't part of the scene, who collect the labels as well as the music.  Strangely there are people who like records like this who don't always want to hear a 100 mph stomper that has been hammered for 50 years :rofl: It is quite evident from the discussion that there is an interest. I don't see any kudos being created, I haven't really seen anyone raving over it, just an attempt to prove its authenticity, if it is real and how to tell its real.

Good post Chalky . If each sentence were tick boxes I would fill every one [ not so sure about the 'meep , meeps ':D - but the qaulity of the track is a diffrent matter all together]' Imagine this in the pre internet days . Someone could / would have been carrying round a four figure boot for years - maybe never to come to light ? This thread just shows the really good side to online information and details regarding rare soul 45's . For instance it has brought the MISCO stampers to light for a few by the sound of it .

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Posted
46 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

to try and put this rambling topic to bed tho its a fair bet to say that if its got the swirly labels then its a recent press............... thats it

I reckon so Dave. Especially if it also lacks the raised matrix numbers under the label which seem to be a feature of all the Jenges and related label releases.

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Posted
59 minutes ago, dave pinch said:

to try and put this rambling topic to bed tho its a fair bet to say that if its got the swirly labels then its a recent press............... thats it

Yes . Can we now get started on the Indelegent's 45 ? :D

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Posted
6 hours ago, Pga1 said:

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

Have you actually listened to this record or taken in any of the contents of this thread? The "meep meep" might be a bit daft I grant you and I well understand the argument that it might not the greatest soul record ever made, but no way can it be described as a "garage or Carolina beach type of tune"!! That is just daft to say that. Pure Philly soul, Gamble & Huff style, sounds like the Intruders all the way. "Garage or Carolina beach" :lol:?

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Posted
7 minutes ago, markw said:

Have you actually listened to this record or taken in any of the contents of this thread? The "meep meep" might be a bit daft I grant you and I well understand the argument that it might not the greatest soul record ever made, but no way can it be described as a "garage or Carolina beach type of tune"!! That is just daft to say that. Pure Philly soul, Gamble & Huff style, sounds like the Intruders all the way. "Garage or Carolina beach" :lol:?

Got a feeling the chap thinks it's the 'other' Satan's Breed [who were a 'garage' band] having a go at 'the philly sound' :D

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Posted

Someone's not paying attention and getting mixed up with Satan's Breed on A-L-M ... :thumbsup:

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Posted

That's why I asked whether he'd actually bothered to read the thread or listen to the tune.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, chalky said:

It isn't about what we always wish to hear out and there is more than just "us" out there.  There are many thousands who have nothing to do with the UK Northern Soul Scene which many seem to think that is all there is and certainly what it is all about :rolleyes: There are many collectors who don't go out, who aren't part of the scene, who collect the labels as well as the music.  Strangely there are people who like records like this who don't always want to hear a 100 mph stomper that has been hammered for 50 years :rofl: It is quite evident from the discussion that there is an interest. I don't see any kudos being created, I haven't really seen anyone raving over it, just an attempt to prove its authenticity, if it is real and how to tell its real.

Well said Chalky, unfortunately high prices achieved are not just restricted to the northern soul fratrnity, I'm afraid to say there's been certain unscrupulous characters knocking out counterfeits of doo-wop, low rider, sweet and funk indemander's for many years now.

Dave

 

Edited by Louise

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Posted
8 hours ago, Pga1 said:

I find this really strange. This tune which ain't that good is causing so much drama. If it was a good soul tune fair enough but all you lot are creating some kind of kudos about a garage type of tune (Carolina beach type of tune)  I mean would you buy it really and sit at home and play it ( meep f...king meep) yes it may be dodgy. Ooh it has philly connections. Boot , unreleased, only one original copy etc etc.  let's  get some soul back on here and let the ooh it's rare must be good clan get on with it ( kings new clothes)  I love the people who find real soul tunes £5 -5,000 tunes  lets hear them. Why if my mate plays a great tune no one cares but if dj X  plays it later it's fantastic. Could go on now with a rant about new people- returnees who somehow tend to dictate what we listen to. Hey ho many will know this, play a reoord and they go 'I don't know this and it's shit, few years later same person comes up and says hey mate check this tune out its fantastic and the answer is '?  Cheers

There are people out there who have been on the scene for decades and are not returnees trying to dictate to anyone and we have always been interested in the music rather than the "scene".  In fact its returnees in the main who want to hear the same old , same old ...that why there are so many oldies events with the baggy trouser and beer towel brigade.   Also there are thousands of people on the soul scene and beyond who are collectors and who are interested in labels, groups, authenticity etc. You completely miss the point with your rant, this is not about kudos or bragging rights, the thread is about the rarity/obscurity, the set of labels and their output and the authenticity of said record. If you want to rant about DJ's etc then start your own thread.

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Posted

I'm thinking of setting up a support group for those unfortunates that have ended up with these dodgy looking 45's ... going to call it "Naive-line" ... :wink:

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Posted

After reading this interesting but depressing thread it seems to me myself and i (personal view only) that,

Has been Levine is once again up to his armpits in underhandedness.Yes he was once a mighty force on the scene but cant take the fact i suspect that he isnt so much now. He pushes 3 hour podcasts with some good and great soul content known to most people who never went away from the scene but makes out they are all the rarest ever.Added to this is just as much pop and garage based drivel the likes of which we havent had to endure since the 70,s.

People are being turned over for serious money on COUNTERFEITS. If they were £10 copies people would moan but say hey ho its always happened.He is playing these on his shows as kudos gathering grails.

Why is it he is deemed bulletproof instead of the right pain that he is.When was the last time anything positive came from his direction.

Rant over.

Tricky

 

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Posted

Hiya, gimme a break, been out on heavy session and as I said I don' do lol etc and my tongue is still stuck to the side of my mouth. Yes haveheard other band, love all kinds of music inc Philly. Very open minded, love it all. Still not gonna put smiley face etc because my mate says he'll punch me if ever start doing it. So meep meep cheers

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Andy Mac said:

There are people out there who have been on the scene for decades and are not returnees trying to dictate to anyone and we have always been interested in the music rather than the "scene".  In fact its returnees in the main who want to hear the same old , same old ...that why there are so many oldies events with the baggy trouser and beer towel brigade.   Also there are thousands of people on the soul scene and beyond who are collectors and who are interested in labels, groups, authenticity etc. You completely miss the point with your rant, this is not about kudos or bragging rights, the thread is about the rarity/obscurity, the set of labels and their output and the authenticity of said record. If you want to rant about DJ's etc then start your own thread.

:thumbsup:

It's pretty simple really -

1.  Is it a boot ? Answer - yes .

2. Was it booted from an original 45 ? Answer - not known yet .

3. Is it an unreleasd track that has been issued years later a la Johnny Watson on Valise to fool the market ? Answer - not known yet .

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