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HARRY CROSBY

Lack Of Knowledge, Or Just Deep Pockets ?

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Hi all this is something ive wondered about for a while now. What brought this question to light was I was recently trawling through e-bay when I came across a re-issue that was being bid on, and was actually more expensive, than the original copy further down the search page. The thing that got me thinking was it wasn`t an old re-issue, but one of those ones done over the past couple of years. I use the word re-issue lightly of course.

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Hi all this is something ive wondered about for a while now. What brought this question to light was I was recently trawling through e-bay when I came across a re-issue that was being bid on, and was actually more expensive, than the original copy further down the search page. The thing that got me thinking was it wasn`t an old re-issue, but one of those ones done over the past couple of years. I use the word re-issue lightly of course.

Lack of knowledge and deep pockets plus I think in today's culture, folk especially younguns want everything NOW, so I'd throw laziness into the mix as well and also some people just aren't bothered whether OV or not... Phil Edited by garswood

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I definately think it's lack of knowledge. You only have to look at many of the "northern" facebook pages to confirm that.

 

Paul

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Its very odd.................  :g: 

 

Many of the buyers are said to be young - but who knows if that's the case.

Most young are computer savy and can be a whizz on an i-phone.  So we are saying they can operate EvilBay and PayPal but not the basic searches in Google to find out more............ :yes: 

 

Could be just lazy buyers, pure and simple  :sleep3: 

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yep I would say lazy and probably actually older with lots of spare cash

 

most of the young record buyers ive met buy originals and those who buy boots do because they cant afford over £10/20 on tunes

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I think you can also add, "lost in translation" into the equation, as I bet a few non-native English speakers are also slipping up due to dubious descriptions.

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Looks like another thread for Grumpy old gits to let off steam........with respect lol.   it's hard to define knowledge, you know what you know, but are on a constant learning curve, are the posters on this thread saying they know everything so can cast judgement on those a little further back on the path to soul enlightenment, the best way to learn is to learn from your mistakes, i still make them.

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Looks like another thread for Grumpy old gits to let off steam........with respect lol.   it's hard to define knowledge, you know what you know, but are on a constant learning curve, are the posters on this thread saying they know everything so can cast judgement on those a little further back on the path to soul enlightenment, the best way to learn is to learn from your mistakes, i still make them.

Not in the slightest John. But all the info is out there nowadays if you look or read, or ask. Asking is how I learnt, there was no media back then, and as yourself I`m still learning myself, that`s what keeps me at it really.

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I'm a novice John May and your right always learning  :thumbup: , but these tunes are run of the mill Northern, anyone could Google and learn within 10 minutes.       If not join and ask forum, here, or Facebook ; sure there are others.......................

 

Even a search on EvilBay will throw up differences (often vast) in price which would surely raise a question

 

Hard to have any sympathy for any but those that are deceived.........................if they can use the pc to purchase ; they can use it to browse............. 

 

Its best not to have too many learners with bitter taste ; left from being ripped off........but unless they try to help themselves difficult to avoid - if they indeed care at all............ (rationale may not be applied) :( 

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One of the main issues is lack of knowledge regarding what is an original / bootleg / reissue, etc...

There were a lot of very good quality pressings made in the 70's which flooded the market as we are all aware, but to get a working knowledge of what's real or not takes years to build up or you could just carry a copy of Manship's guide around all the time !

Even some of the experts have been caught out in their day !

You just have to look at evil bay to see the vast amount of dross being sold out there.. ..

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I bought some right old crap in the early 80s through lack of knowledge but on the other hand also got some great stuff too as the sellers were sometimes equally clueless. Nowadays, there should be no excuses for people to buy boots or reissues with so much info around...but then no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the public did they?

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I have a friend who collects Iron Maiden and NWBHM...........he saw The Film and went nuts over the Salvadors......he bought a Blue copy for £60.00 on ebay !

I told him about the box set of 45s, he got one for £65.00 and re-auctioned the Salvadors for £72.00 !

So who knows !

Also got a none soul mate who's just bought 2 nice originals Dean Courtney MGM (Real 'un) & Ireen & Scotts and paid serious £££££s, just to play them at home because he liked them !

Strange World of Record Collection and middle age men with too much money !

Rob

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Lack of knowledge and awareness, someone paid over £200 on Ebay for Millie Jackson 'House For Sale'  there was one on Discogs at the same time for £15

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A lot of the Johnny-come-latelys to the scene seem to either have no grasp of the desire to collect original issue 45's compared to reissues, or simply do not care.  I remember a few years ago on Ebay 2 copies of Ann Sexton on the orange/black 77 label went for more than the yellow one, on the same night ! Recently i've struggled to get any offers on nice, clean orig 45's like Al Kent, Greg Perry, Melvin Elling, but see endless later and recent reissues sell easily !?!

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Lack of knowledge and awareness, someone paid over £200 on Ebay for Millie Jackson 'House For Sale'  there was one on Discogs at the same time for £15

I've got a Millie Jackson for sale for £195 then, if anyone is interested !!!

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I can't help thinking that some dubious sellers are artificially raising prices to bring attention to the product. Getting friends or partners to bid on their product, can attract naive buyers who presume that because it's expensive and there are multiple bidders, it must be valuable. I may be wrong of course but sellers can be very crafty.

Edited by Noggin

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when I came back on the scene in the early 80's there was no internet no where near the amount of boots about either its so much easier now but also to be conned.  You had to link up with other collectors to get knowledge and I will be eternally grateful to Andy Rix (incredible knowledge), Andy Spencer, John Pugh, Mick Smith and Dave Welding for sharing their knowledge with me

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Great point Ted, makes you wonder why new comers - assuming they are - don't ask anyone, join forums or Facebook to ask or just research via Google................  Maybe they just don't know that such a market exits (real and boots) and so don't consider it.............

Edited by RareMusicDirect

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In answer to the question probably a bit of both but the amount of knowledge that is just a question away on the internet is phenomenal.  There is really no reason whatsoever for either getting ripped off or paying over the odds, well not too much anyway.  Those that do pay a premium price, some that I know do have knowledge so can only assume they are too lazy to look around and have too much money.

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You see regularly people bidding on records that can be bought buy it now or on discogs etc. for allot less than their bids, so i don't think its only a lack of knowledge just impetuous bidding .Nowadays i usually check other sites before bidding but not always.

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There are two things i loathe....

Stupid  prices of auctioned records and....

Car number plate prices :wicked:

You should see beer prices here in Norway. 

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Looks like another thread for Grumpy old gits to let off steam........with respect lol.   it's hard to define knowledge, you know what you know, but are on a constant learning curve, are the posters on this thread saying they know everything so can cast judgement on those a little further back on the path to soul enlightenment, the best way to learn is to learn from your mistakes, i still make them.

I find this post rather puzzling... and why is it so popular I think what harry is saying is the merest Google search will usually find information availability pricing of virtually all rare soul 45s ..so why throw £100s at bootlegs... maybe the guys making the post popular are the ones paying dumb money for these counterfeits and common originals

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Inexperience will be a lot to do with it I think. Try and imagine you are in your 50's/60's and you are buying records for the first time. Or you are new to using a PC.

 

Just because we are all seasoned campaigners, doesn't mean everyone is. I still get many people in my shop who aren't on line, and if they are they aren't very confident with it.

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Interesting thread H. It does make you wonder 'individual's' motivations for buying records.

 

Maybe 'peer group' acceptance.We all have a circle of friends on the scene with whom we talk records and other assorted b*****ks...maybe the people who pay big money for bootlegs,do so, to garner favour amongst  their 'group'.

 

.ie 'Just bought a cracking record (be it Duke Browner, Salvadores or any other boot of your choice).....and it cost me over a ton !!..

 

.if that particular 'peer group'....has no experience/knowledge/desire of collecting originals.....then instant 'WOW 'factor

 

 

...this also further perpetuates the notion (esp to those just starting out ) that to collect 'Northern Soul'...it costs £££'s per record.......

 

 

Just a thought..

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I find this post rather puzzling... and why is it so popular I think what harry is saying is the merest Google search will usually find information availability pricing of virtually all rare soul 45s ..so why throw £100s at bootlegs... maybe the guys making the post popular are the ones paying dumb money for these counterfeits and common originals

Nail on the head Dave :thumbsup:

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Interesting thread H. It does make you wonder 'individual's' motivations for buying records.

 

Maybe 'peer group' acceptance.We all have a circle of friends on the scene with whom we talk records and other assorted b*****ks...maybe the people who pay big money for bootlegs,do so, to garner favour amongst  their 'group'.

 

.ie 'Just bought a cracking record (be it Duke Browner, Salvadores or any other boot of your choice).....and it cost me over a ton !!..

 

.if that particular 'peer group'....has no experience/knowledge/desire of collecting originals.....then instant 'WOW 'factor

 

 

...this also further perpetuates the notion (esp to those just starting out ) that to collect 'Northern Soul'...it costs £££'s per record.......

 

 

Just a thought..

There may be some truth in this.

Currently on eBay, there's a copy of Lou Ragland on ERIC with bidding at over................................£205!!!!!!

(SS member selling, must be very happy - good luck :thumbsup: )

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makes you wonder why new comers - assuming they are - don't ask anyone, join forums or Facebook to ask or just research via Google................  Maybe they just don't know that such a market exits (real and boots) and so don't consider it.............

 

'Cos I'm from the north and supposed to be blunt I'd say maybe they can't be arsed and it's not that important to them?

 

Don't forget most of the long time poster/regulars on here are hardcore and I mean proper, proper hardcore.

 

They want to know as much as humanely possible about as many soul records as their memory can stand right down to the minutest detail.

On meeting various soul groups and artists over the years they want to know everything about the singers biggest flop records whilst the artistes want to talk about their biggest hits....

They live breathe, eat and swallow soul music 7 days a week, 24 hours a day with the only respite being when they're asleep or on the toilet.

They talk down and under price records when buying and do the exact opposite when selling.

There's a good chance they possibly might sometime soft lie (when telling loved ones how much they've paid for certain records).

They sometimes forget to pay a bill when a long time want suddenly rears its head.

They often have records mailed to their place of work so to avoid the tell tale constant stream of postmen knocking on the door. How many records have you bought this month darling?

 

Need I carry on....

 

Only been collecting 20 years 'bah you're still a nipper they think.

On hearing you've only got 500 records in your collection they smile politely whilst thinkin' fcuk me I had that many by the time I was 12.

 

How many times in conversation with non soul people do you get told that "yeah I've got quite a few records at home". Well that to me means 500 minimum. Then you're shocked to find out they've just a carrier bag full of about 20 albums most of them compilations.

 

Many on here are angels flying high above in the clouds watching mere mortals down below just fumbling about with records.

 

I mean despite what we think what percentage of newcomers do you think have actually ever heard of this Soul Source forum? And how many could be bothered to get involved - why would they want to? I bet many find it intimidating - hell even I do.

 

What does that car sticker say - Northern Soul Is A Way Of Life - well it may be to us but it's not to them. It's just a night out having a laugh with their mates.

 

To many on here going out is a near religious experience and that's what drives the passion and seriousness of it. That's precisely what has kept the scene going for the last 50 odd years or so. Without it it would have withered and died like so many other youth cults have done over the years.

 

Some opinions expressed are not those of the writer. All said tongue in cheek with no offence intended. 

 

Derek x

Edited by Derek Pearson

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'Cos I'm from the north and supposed to be blunt I'd say maybe they can't be arsed and it's not that important to them?

 

Don't forget most of the long time poster/regulars on here are hardcore and I mean proper, proper hardcore.

 

They want to know as much as humanely possible about as many soul records as their memory can stand right down to the minutest detail.

On meeting various soul groups and artists over the years they want to know everything about the singers biggest flop records whilst the artistes want to talk about their biggest hits....

They live breathe, eat and swallow soul music 7 days a week, 24 hours a day with the only respite being when they're asleep or on the toilet.

They talk down and under price records when buying and do the exact opposite when selling.

There's a good chance they possibly might sometime soft lie (when telling loved ones how much they've paid for certain records).

They sometimes forget to pay a bill when a long time want suddenly rears its head.

They often have records mailed to their place of work so to avoid the tell tale constant stream of postmen knocking on the door. How many records have you bought this month darling?

 

Need I carry on....

 

Only been collecting 20 years 'bah you're still a nipper they think.

On hearing you've only got 500 records in your collection they smile politely whilst thinkin' fcuk me I had that many by the time I was 12.

 

How many times in conversation with non soul people do you get told that "yeah I've got quite a few records at home". Well that to me means 500 minimum. Then you're shocked to find out they've just a carrier bag full of about 20 albums most of them compilations.

 

Many on here are angels flying high above in the clouds watching mere mortals down below just fumbling about with records.

 

I mean despite what we think what percentage of newcomers do you think have actually ever heard of this Soul Source forum? And how many could be bothered to get involved - why would they want to? I bet many find it intimidating - hell even I do.

 

What does that car sticker say - Northern Soul Is A Way Of Life - well it may be to us but it's not to them. It's just a night out having a laugh with their mates.

 

To many on here going out is a near religious experience and that's what drives the passion and seriousness of it. That's precisely what has kept the scene going for the last 50 odd years or so. Without it it would have withered and died like so many other youth cults have done over the years.

 

Some opinions expressed are not those of the writer. All said tongue in cheek with no offence intended. 

 

Derek x

That  has got to be one of the best posts that i have ever read on this forum. :yes:

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yep I would say lazy and probably actually older with lots of spare cash

 

most of the young record buyers ive met buy originals and those who buy boots do because they cant afford over £10/20 on tunes

Agreed , many older people have jumped on the  bandwagon as northern soul is now so commercialized due to tv ,radio etc , these people have no knowledge about original formats or rare soul ,they wanna be dj's at local handbag  do's.

Basically the scene is on its arse because of these people imo.

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I have a friend who collects Iron Maiden and NWBHM...........he saw The Film and went nuts over the Salvadors......he bought a Blue copy for £60.00 on ebay !

I told him about the box set of 45s, he got one for £65.00 and re-auctioned the Salvadors for £72.00 !

So who knows !

Also got a none soul mate who's just bought 2 nice originals Dean Courtney MGM (Real 'un) & Ireen & Scotts and paid serious £££££s, just to play them at home because he liked them !

Strange World of Record Collection and middle age men with too much money !

Rob

 

I have a friend who collects Iron Maiden and NWBHM...........he saw The Film and went nuts over the Salvadors......he bought a Blue copy for £60.00 on ebay !

I told him about the box set of 45s, he got one for £65.00 and re-auctioned the Salvadors for £72.00 !

So who knows !

Also got a none soul mate who's just bought 2 nice originals Dean Courtney MGM (Real 'un) & Ireen & Scotts and paid serious £££££s, just to play them at home because he liked them !

Strange World of Record Collection and middle age men with too much money !

Rob

Rob , i know what you mean i have few friends who have seen the film and have gone nuts , these people are in their late fifty's are buying boots reissues in some case paying big money thinking they got the real deal, these people have money but no knowledge.

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'Cos I'm from the north and supposed to be blunt I'd say maybe they can't be arsed and it's not that important to them?

 

Don't forget most of the long time poster/regulars on here are hardcore and I mean proper, proper hardcore.

 

They want to know as much as humanely possible about as many soul records as their memory can stand right down to the minutest detail.

On meeting various soul groups and artists over the years they want to know everything about the singers biggest flop records whilst the artistes want to talk about their biggest hits....

They live breathe, eat and swallow soul music 7 days a week, 24 hours a day with the only respite being when they're asleep or on the toilet.

They talk down and under price records when buying and do the exact opposite when selling.

There's a good chance they possibly might sometime soft lie (when telling loved ones how much they've paid for certain records).

They sometimes forget to pay a bill when a long time want suddenly rears its head.

They often have records mailed to their place of work so to avoid the tell tale constant stream of postmen knocking on the door. How many records have you bought this month darling?

 

Need I carry on....

 

Only been collecting 20 years 'bah you're still a nipper they think.

On hearing you've only got 500 records in your collection they smile politely whilst thinkin' fcuk me I had that many by the time I was 12.

 

How many times in conversation with non soul people do you get told that "yeah I've got quite a few records at home". Well that to me means 500 minimum. Then you're shocked to find out they've just a carrier bag full of about 20 albums most of them compilations.

 

Many on here are angels flying high above in the clouds watching mere mortals down below just fumbling about with records.

 

I mean despite what we think what percentage of newcomers do you think have actually ever heard of this Soul Source forum? And how many could be bothered to get involved - why would they want to? I bet many find it intimidating - hell even I do.

 

What does that car sticker say - Northern Soul Is A Way Of Life - well it may be to us but it's not to them. It's just a night out having a laugh with their mates.

 

To many on here going out is a near religious experience and that's what drives the passion and seriousness of it. That's precisely what has kept the scene going for the last 50 odd years or so. Without it it would have withered and died like so many other youth cults have done over the years.

 

Some opinions expressed are not those of the writer. All said tongue in cheek with no offence intended. 

 

Derek x

Yes Mr Pearson "hits nail on t'head" yet again Well said Derek x

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The rarer Soul scene is largely unaffected by commercialism as the people that go are only interested

in the quality of music, not market stalls or fashion parades

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The rarer Soul scene is largely unaffected by commercialism as the people that go are only interested

in the quality of music, not market stalls or fashion parades

Totally agree, its mainly the classic northern scene which is under threat from Mp3's, reissues, lack of knowledge.  it would be very weird to go along to rare and underplayed night to hear non vinyl.  

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Totally agree, its mainly the classic northern scene which is under threat from Mp3's, reissues, lack of knowledge.  it would be very weird to go along to rare and underplayed night to hear non vinyl.  

we ain't got an mp3 or cd player at Pure soul, just good old fashioned  record decks :thumbsup:

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we ain't got an mp3 or cd player at Pure soul, just good old fashioned  record decks :thumbsup:

Ha ha, our records we listen to are rather "old fashioned" to the outside world.... what, 40 odd years old? :yes:

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